Caution with Leupold scopes

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#1
Well after 2 trips back and forth to Leupolds warranty department w a Mark 8 1-8 in 4 months I have completely washed my hands of all Leupold products. Mark 8 sold for $1500 nib, Vx-6 1-6 sold for $500 and a Delta Pro for $200..
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#2
My Mark 8 TURD magically had internal debris appear after 3 trips to the range on a 6.5 Grendel. Shortly after the debris I noticed the reticle jumping from left to right while coming from 8x to a lower power. Long story short, 2 trips back to back and Leupold told me they could do nothing for me. Lesson learned on a 3k mark 8...
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#4
No pics. The scope held zero no issues w that but I couldn’t deal w a reticle jumping or the free play in the power selector which I believe went hand and hand. I have a Hensoldt and SB both in the FFP and neither have any reticle jump.
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#7
Well first time I sent it in on my dime w a detailed letter they cleaned out the debris and sent it back. I opened the box cked it out said wtf and off to the UPS store I went. I had it in my possession less than a hr. Off it went w a detailed letter. Well after 2 trips in 4 months than being told we can’t do anything on your scope you just paid 3k I’m not impressed w there customer service.
 
Nov 22, 2010
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Wilkes County, NC
#9
i got one of the last mark 4's for a 260 .. couldnt get it to group for anything... finally changed the scope out.. problem solved
returned to leupold got a e-mail saying they had rec. it (like tuesday at 3 pm) & a e-mail with tracking info thursday morning it was on it way back repaired...
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#10
I have had many lower cost Leupolds in the last 26 years. Had to send 3 back and all either were repaired or replaced. I think the cost of repairing or replacing this Tier 1 TURD was out of the question. I have been a loyal customer all these years and than to be told we can do nothing for you. Lesson learned I will stick w my German imports.
 
Jan 17, 2010
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Smithville, MO
#12
I am done with Leupold also.

I sent in my Ultra in for repair due to the turrets being mushy and the clicks not positive.

After a several weeks I get an email directing me to contact customer service.

Sorry we can not repair your scope, but we will give you a new scope to replace it.

That's OK just send it back to me. Sorry we can't do that.

F**k you too!
 

RyanO7

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 11, 2013
11
0
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#14
I've had a few Leupold scopes. Sent one in for evaluation and cleaning. It came back with a note that stated what was performed to it. I also have a Mark 8 3.5-25 and it works great.

I can't see Leupold not replacing the scope if it needed to be replaced. The cost of replacement is nothing to them.

I do like hearing half of the story. That's always helpful.
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#15
As I stated before the scope held zero. That’s not why the scope went in for repairs. I have came accross a old Hide post w similar reticle jump in FFP scopes from other manufacturers.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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Ohio
#17
I have been considering a Mark 5 3-18x44 for a couple months. The problems the OP exppresses plus other historical Leupold problems has kept me on the sidelines.
I going to pass on the Leupold buy another NF ATACR 4-16x42
I wouldn't refrain from buying a Leupold because of this post or a few others. Every one of my hunting rifles sports a Leupold and I have not had any problems with any of my mark 8s or Mark 5. This forum tends to hate Leupold and its products. I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Leupold is probably the largest supplier of scopes. Selling that many scopes, you will have some bad ones. Look at Vortex. In the end, it's your money. Buy what you want. Just my two cents.
 
Feb 3, 2009
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#18
My Mk6 came from the factory with a canted erector mechanism, I sent it in for repair and it was fixed quickly and returned, and now tracks straight as far as I can measure. No complaints about the warranty service, not thrilled with the initial QC.
 
Likes: ZG47A and BCX

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
215
53
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#19
I wouldn't refrain from buying a Leupold because of this post or a few others. Every one of my hunting rifles sports a Leupold and I have not had any problems with any of my mark 8s or Mark 5. This forum tends to hate Leupold and its products. I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Leupold is probably the largest supplier of scopes. Selling that many scopes, you will have some bad ones. Look at Vortex. In the end, it's your money. Buy what you want. Just my two cents.
FYI im not telling anyone to avoid their product. i have used Leupolds for 26 years and now i have a bad taste in my mouth. life goes on, its only money :p Just sharing my experience w THEIR tier 1 scopes!!! LOL
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#20
My Mk6 came from the factory with a canted erector mechanism, I sent it in for repair and it was fixed quickly and returned, and now tracks straight as far as I can measure. No complaints about the warranty service, not thrilled with the initial QC.
Now thats good quality control.....
 
Jan 10, 2014
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#21
I have briefly searched the threads here on the Hide, as well as Google and this topic of 'FFP Reticle Jump' seems to come up quite often.

In a very short amount of time, I have found numerous threads regarding NF, S&B, Vortex, Bushnell, Kahles, etc. All FFP scopes, where the users are experiencing the same thing. However, if you dig (just a little bit), you will find it is normal for a FFP scope to have what users call 'Reticle Jump'. This is because the reticle is in FRONT of the erector assembly. As you turn the magnification ring, you are moving the lenses between your eye, and the reticle. When you see this 'jump', it is not JUST the reticle, it is the image and the reticle appearing to move and staying in relation to each other which is why you will not see any performance issues such as Point of Impact Shift.

Some scopes will do it more than others, there are tolerances as with anything being manufactured. EVERY FFP will have it, it's just a matter of whether it is noticed. I would venture to guess that in most instances, it's not noticeable unless you are looking at the very edge of your FOV. Or, users don't see any negative impacts to performance so it never gets brought up. Because the Image and the Reticle are 'jumping' relative to each other, there are zero performance impacts.

Links to Threads where this is brought up:

http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/reticle-shift-when-adjusting-magnification.6535612/

http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/reticle-jump-on-ffp-scopes.50201/
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#24
I have 2 other FFP scopes w no reticle jump. This mark 8 has play in the power selector going from max to a lower power and thats exactly where i had the reticle jump.
 

supercorndogs

Professor Dickweed
Feb 17, 2014
1,983
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#25
So it holds zero, it tracks properly, and they got the debris off the lens, and your only issue, is a very common non-issue? Please go click on the links provided by another member. This has been beaten to death, and you are not the first one to think reticle jump ,when turning the power ring, is an issue on a FFP plane scope. It is not, so Leupold can't fix something that isn't a problem. It just happens.
 
Likes: LRI and ZG47A

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#26
My issue is when i first mounted the scope IT HAD NO JUMP, NO DEBRIS, NO PLAY. Explain to me WHY all of a sudden these symptoms appeared???? My Hensoldt and SB do not have these symptoms........Hey i solved the problem! I SOLD IT...
 
Likes: Bender

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#27
Long before i got into to tactical scopes i used FFP scopes. 26 years and counting and this is the first issue i have ran into so i don't buy that this is a common issue. I have used Kahles, Zeiss and Swarovski 30mm hunting scopes. SB, NF and Hensoldt tactical scopes.
 
Jan 10, 2014
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#29
I guess I'm slightly confused.

Leupold cleaned the debris out for you. The Mark 8 tracked, held zero, and performed with no issues. It exhibited a symptom of a FFP, that is in all FFP scopes, and your blasting a company because they told you it was a non-issue. When, at the same time there are plenty of scenarios on other threads where people have had scopes from all sorts of manufactures exhibit the same symptom and those manufactures have told them the same thing Leupold told you, that its a normal behavior of a FFP and it does not affect performance. And. Your mad about that.

The debris in the scope, that's unfortunate, but it sounds like they made that right.
 
Jan 10, 2014
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#30
A dozen ffp scopes and only one had reticle jump. I bet if you did a poll it would prove to be uncommon.
You are correct, people able to notice the symptom would likely prove uncommon. But it's still there. Every single one has it. It's not an issue, because it's not an issue. I bet if you took those FFP scopes and paid close attention at the edge of your field of view on a grid target, you would see it. Some may be extremely subtle, others may be less subtle. Regardless, it doesn't affect performance in any way, so if your actually shooting, it doesn't matter.
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#31
I guess I'm slightly confused.

Leupold cleaned the debris out for you. The Mark 8 tracked, held zero, and performed with no issues. It exhibited a symptom of a FFP, that is in all FFP scopes, and your blasting a company because they told you it was a non-issue. When, at the same time there are plenty of scenarios on other threads where people have had scopes from all sorts of manufactures exhibit the same symptom and those manufactures have told them the same thing Leupold told you, that its a normal behavior of a FFP and it does not affect performance. And. Your mad about that.

The debris in the scope, that's unfortunate, but it sounds like they made that right.
BUD I'm mad because i dropped 3K on a FFP scope and i expect it to be to my liking! i had to sell it for $1500 because it was very noticeable from 8X down. I have NEVER experienced this w any other FFP scope and if i did that one would be gone also.
 
Jan 10, 2014
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#32
BUD I'm mad because i dropped 3K on a FFP scope and i expect it to be to my liking! i had to sell it for $1500 because it was very noticeable from 8X down. I have NEVER experienced this w any other FFP scope and if i did that one would be gone also.
So, because it wasn't to your LIKING, although it performed, the scope is a Turd and leupold sucks? C'mon brother. Let's be fair here.
 
Jan 10, 2014
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#34
That's the thing, it's not a problem to fix. Either you didn't notice it at first, or maybe the debris was in the original erector system which maybe they replaced the erector assembly and this symptom was more noticeable in the new erector? I guess I just don't understand why it matters if it doesn't impact performance.
 
Likes: ZG47A

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
215
53
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#35
Trust me i would have noticed. I spend a lot of time behind premium scopes. Between the debris, the power selector that ends up w a dead spot in it, the reticle jump that i believe go hand and hand w the other symptoms . I had paid a premium for a Tier 1 scope i want a tier 1 product. NOT one that after 3 trips to the range has QC issues.
 

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
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#37
Are you employed or sponsored by Leupold? Do you own any tier 1 scopes? This shouldn't be argument... I am simply posting my recent experience w a product that had issues.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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Ohio
#39
I completely agree. Just let it go man. Leupold seemed to fix your problem and you still aren't happy about it. I guess your eyes just don't like Leupold glass. My eyes don't like Nightforce glass, but I'm not going to say they make bad products. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Jan 31, 2018
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South Texas
#41
That's the thing, it's not a problem to fix. Either you didn't notice it at first, or maybe the debris was in the original erector system which maybe they replaced the erector assembly and this symptom was more noticeable in the new erector? I guess I just don't understand why it matters if it doesn't impact performance.
To be fair, if you have a giant gash on the side of your Lamborghini, it doesn’t affect its performance. Would you just leave it?

Yes, most FFP optics will have image shift when the lenses in the erector are moving. However when it’s very noticeable, I can see how someone would be put off they spent 3k+ and there’s enough “slop” in the tube to make it noticeable.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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#42
To be fair, if you have a giant gash on the side of your Lamborghini, it doesn’t affect its performance. Would you just leave it?


That’s not really a fair analogy. We’re not talking about cosmetic damage, we’re talking about an issue with an inner mechanism. If you buy your brand new Lamborghini and find that it gets ten mpg, when you expected it to get thirty-five mpg, and get upset when the manufacturer refuses to repair or replace it, then you have unrealistic expectations.

You have to understand that poor fuel mileage is a common characteristic of high performance vehicles, just like reticle shift is a common characteristic of FFP scopes. It may be present in varying degrees of severity due to tolerance stacking in the assembly, and if your lucky, it may be almost imperceptible, but it is still a characteristic of the design. Likewise, you may get lucky and get a Lamborghini that gets twenty-five mpg, but that would not be the norm.

That being said, if your new Lamborghini was getting ten mpg and the clutch was continuously slipping, I would expect the slipping clutch to be repaired under warranty. I would not be happy if the manufacturer told me that they would not repair the clutch, since the fuel mileage was within normal specifications. However, if they repaired the clutch, and you were still unhappy because the fuel efficiency of a Lamborghini did not meet your expectations, then I would say you need to choose a different kind of car, or accept the limitations of the design.

If the mechanism in the OP’s scope would travel past the stops, and the magnification ring had excessive free play, Leupold should have fixed it. If the repair did not eliminate the reticle shift, then the OP should accept the design limitations or go SFP.
 
Jan 31, 2018
941
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South Texas
#43
It is absolutely “cosmetic,” as the image shift is an eye sore while being behind the rifle and moving the magnification ring.

The noticeable image shift is a product of too much play in the lenses within the erector.

Now, there is question of what is considered acceptable by a manufacturer. I have seen other companies not accept enough play in their erectors that it is noticeable to someone and when it is noticeable, take steps to make sure it is not noticeable.

That is where I would take issue. Leupold should take their most expensive line a bit more seriously as far as tolerances go.

You are correct that image shift is common among FFP, you are wrong that noticeable image shift is not common in high end FFP. It’s still there, but it isn’t as noticeable as the OP is suggesting his was.

I’m not sure how much time you spend behind your high end glass. I spend 6-10 hours a week behind mine. I would not tolerate something that irritated my eye or my mind whilst spending that much time looking at it.

I have had high end NF, Vortex, and S&B. None of them have exhibited enough image shift to be noticeable.
 
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