Can I get to a mile with 7mm? (Short action)

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#1
I have been having fun stretching out to 1,000 yards with my 6.5 Creedmoor AR and I'm building up a bolt action in 6.5 Creedmoor to try to get some more MV, a better trigger, better optics and see how that goes.

That rifle is going to be built with an ARC Nucleus action and at some point I would like to step it up to a chambering that can give me more MV with a bigger, higher BC bullet and maybe make it out to a mile.

.284 or a Shehane is tempting but I'm not sure if it will fit in a short action.

I saw this 7mm Sherman Short Mag: https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/7mm-sherman-short-mag.6870335/page-2#post-6899379

That sounds like it should fit, it will take the 180+ grain bullets and the MV sounds pretty good.

I would like to get to a mile supersonic. I'm not sure any of my options have enough juice for that. I think all of them should do 1,500 yards pretty easily which is a bit of consolation but I'd like a mile gun.

I would also like it to not beat me up with excessive recoil, not be really expensive to shoot and not burn up a barrel within 1,500 rounds.

If there is a good combo that fits in a short action, let me know.
 

TripleBull

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#2
You could also look at 6.5 PRC. If you handload with solids, a mile+ should be very do-able. But it's a magnum.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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#3
260 Ackley. I got the 142 SMK's to 3000 FPS with RL17. .308 bolt face, short action. I want to try the Warner flatlines, and I don't think I would have any issues pushing them to 3200 fps which would do quite well at 1 mile on paper.
 

Wyfox

Gun Snob
May 24, 2012
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#4
What's your DA?
I have an average DA of 6,000-8,000 and consistently shoot a mile with my 6.5 creed and 6.5 saum, both are supersonic to 1760yds +
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
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#5
I'm going to try a mile for the first time tomorrow if the rains holds off. I will be using a .260, 6.5 saum and 7 wsm. Hopefully I can have some luck with it
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#6
I'm not sure about DA.

I'm sure it's one of those things that becomes much more important at a mile. The 1,000 yard range I shoot at is at a fairly low altitude, probably under 1,000'.

I guess I could travel somewhere higher to try a mile. It's not something I'll do often so not as big a deal as trying to go out of state once or twice a month.
 

cperazza

Full Member
Mar 14, 2014
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#8
The cartridges you listed will reach at subsonic speed. The biggest challenge you will have are winds.

Things to consider:
  • What are the dimensions of the target?
  • How hard will be to spot the shots for corrections where you will be shooting?
  • Did you do an ELR test at 100 yds to get an idea of what to expect at 1760 yds? Example set a board long enough and dial your elevation at 1,760 yards.
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#9
7WSM is a phenomenal ELR round, I ran one years ago shooting well beyond 2000 yards but you'll most likely be single feeding to do so. Especially with the new 190gr+ 7mm bullets. 180's were the heaviest and highest BC available when I was shooting mine.

7SAUM is great too, slightly shorter than WSM so has a better likelihood being mag fed with the really long stuff and is a more efficient round (fps vs grains burned) but the downside is trying to find Remington SAUM brass (fucking unicorn) and doing a little prep work to have good strong brass or using Norma or Nosler brass, pay a premium, and trash it in a few firings if you push it hard at all.

They're both going to eat barrels though. You're going to be hard pressed to find a round that is going to do a mile supersonic without having a .700+ G1 BC and fit in a short action too without eating barrels. I'd consider 1500 rounds from either of them before erratic stuff starts happening good.

If you want a good mile rifle it's going to start with a long action and a magnum or Lapua bolt face. Anything short of that is going to be a sacrifice one way or another. If you REALLY want an ELR round with decent barrel life then do a 338 Lapua, a mile will be a cake walk and a barrel will go 2500 rounds running it pretty hard before starting to go south.

If it were me, I'd do your 6.5 Creedmoor build with a 1:7 twist tube and hope that the 150SMK's stay stable going transonic, I'd bet they will with a 1:7 but that's a total hypothesis. Then if you really want to shoot ELR and be serious about it, buy or build a rifle specifically for it.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#10
Well, that was a bit of a dilemma when I was ordering my Nucleus. It's silly to put a 6.5 Creedmoor in to a long action but I didn't want to move away from that cartridge because all of the steps up have a cost associated with them and shooting a mile is just a bucket list type thing, not the reason to build that rifle.

I don't think ARC is going to make a bolt head that will fit .338LM so the easy but expensive answer was off the table too.

I guess I'm going to have to wait and see.

.224 Valkyrie seems to be the way to shoot 1,000 yards in an AR15 without hardly trying. Hopefully someone will come up with a short action round that does the mile.

To answer an earlier question, my mile target will probably be whatever is at the range but if I have to make my own range, probably an 18-24" gong depending on how easy it is to get to the target area.

Maybe I'll have to shoot through the transonic region, I don't know but that might make a 24" gong too small.

There is certainly a lot of thought that has to go in to it. I'm just trying to see if I can find a sliver of possibility to build a plan around.
 

TripleBull

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#11
I don't think 24" is too small for a mile shot, although if your chosen cartridge is transonic at the distance, projectile behavior varies quite a bit. WRT the bucket list thing, realize the concentric bucket infection addiction is real. After 1760, 2000 is just one possible next step. Enjoy the ride!
 
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lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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#15
I don't think 24" is too small for a mile shot, although if your chosen cartridge is transonic at the distance, projectile behavior varies quite a bit. WRT the bucket list thing, realize the concentric bucket infection addiction is real. After 1760, 2000 is just one possible next step. Enjoy the ride!
This is true. Not sure if it's an infection or an addiction, but the urge to go further is real.
 
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Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
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#16
I shot yesterday at 1730 with my 7 wsm, it was the first time I've been that far. I had factory corbon 180 vld's at 2820 fps so it wasn't the best scenario but I couldn't find brass at the time when these showed up in the classifieds. We had a 24x24 target and a 66% silhouette, most of my shots were at the 66% because we could see the splash easier where it was at. I never hit it but I scared the fuck out of it lol. We moved the other target and I made 2 hits. Hit ratio sucked but the winds were up to 18 mph and then the mirage got so bad we had to quit once the light rain quit and sun came out. I have brass now to do load development and I should be able to gain quite a bit of velocity. I didn't even get to try my saum that far but at 970 it was pretty easy even with the wind. I am looking at a 338 and flat line bullets right now 😁
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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#17
I shot yesterday at 1730 with my 7 wsm, it was the first time I've been that far. I had factory corbon 180 vld's at 2820 fps so it wasn't the best scenario but I couldn't find brass at the time when these showed up in the classifieds. We had a 24x24 target and a 66% silhouette, most of my shots were at the 66% because we could see the splash easier where it was at. I never hit it but I scared the fuck out of it lol. We moved the other target and I made 2 hits. Hit ratio sucked but the winds were up to 18 mph and then the mirage got so bad we had to quit once the light rain quit and sun came out. I have brass now to do load development and I should be able to gain quite a bit of velocity. I didn't even get to try my saum that far but at 970 it was pretty easy even with the wind. I am looking at a 338 and flat line bullets right now 😁
I like the Flatline projectiles. Did you know that you can get 7mm Flatlines also? They have a G1 BC of .721 and a G7 of .360.

 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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#21
To answer the question, yes.


A 7mm-08 can get there as well as the 6.5 Creedmoor. Chuck got more hits at one mile than I did with his Creedmoor, but both rounds got there. Anything bigger can get there as well. Mostly it depends on A. the bullets you use, and B. The twist of your barrel to handle those bullets. Transonic is always a factor. So, maintaining accuracy through that, those two factors are huge. Being able to see wind is really big too.

Back when we were in Scout, @Jason, put up a post of what kind of velocity he was getting out of a 7mm showing velocity and decreasing barrel length. The cartridge he used was smaller than my 7mm-08 but he was getting roughly the same velocity. Sadly, the post took a different track and eventually, it got left behind. It was an outstanding post.

Added: Jason Baney is the guy who did the test. He writes articles for www.accurateshooter.com
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/7x47-lapua-wildcat-cartridge/
 
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fdkay

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 27, 2009
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#22
What's your DA?
I have an average DA of 6,000-8,000 and consistently shoot a mile with my 6.5 creed and 6.5 saum, both are supersonic to 1760yds +
I'm at about 15' (if I'm lucky) elevation. However, we have unique weather here, while it is always incredibly hot in the summer with very high humidty, I have seen the DA vary from 500' BELOW sea level to 2500' above in the same day.
Sadly, the app I was using, which gathered the data from the local airports, no longer functions and I have to do it the hard way now.
 
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