Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

Dec 24, 2011
896
0
0
25
Los Angeles, CA
Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

Isn't the 6.5x284 a long action as well? 284 is a short action, but only with short ogive bullets, for bullets such as the 180gr. Berger or 162gr. AMAX, a long action or mid action (such as a mauser action) is necessary.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,173
475
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: navytacticalnuke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been a great thread and with the build that I am starting it has given me as I see it two options.
280 ackley improved
284
Can someone provide an tie breaker. </div></div>

The 280 AI holds about 8gr more water than the 284 does according to the water capacity of cases that have come from my reamers. That 8gr more capacity turns into about 5gr more powder capacity, which means more performance.

You can get Nosler brass in 280 AI already formed, the reports coming back on it are that it's every bit the quality of the Lapua 284 Brass.

Lots more people make regular 280 brass that can be blown out to 280 AI. And there's great 270 Win brass that just needs to be false-necked and shot to form into 280AI and it's WAYYYYY cheaper than anything in 284.

The 280AI will feed from factory rails in a Remington action where the 284 needs a different follower and some minor feed rail work done. </div></div>

I remember reading that the 280AI holds about 5gr. more water than the 284, the 284 holds 66gr., 280Rem holds a bit over 67, and the AI holds a bit over 71gr., giving it about a 3gr. powder capacity advantage, which is still a lot, but also keep in mind that the 280AI is loaded to 65K PSI, a lot more than the 284, which I believe is loaded to 58K. A top end 280AI load is just about the same as a mild 7RM load, while the 284 performs almost exactly the same as the 280REM, outperforms it by a bit using Reloader 17. </div></div>

It generally varies by brass and reamer, my brass and reamer yields fired brass at 73.7-74.0gr of water capacity. I used Win 270 brass fire formed which tends to be on the thinner side. I wouldn't be surprised with a really tight reamer and RP or Fed brass that you get 71-72gr of water instead.

My 284 Reamer with Lapua is 65.7gr of water and with Winchester brass it's 66.9gr average.

The limiting factor when people discuss "what is it loaded to" is really the case head geometry and since the material in the large primer pocket, 473 case head is all the same even with a 284 (the rebated design is functionally the same) then you don't get a performance boost with either under handload conditions.

What the factory 284 ammo loads with is pretty immaterial for what we're discussing here, nobody shooting 284's in long range precision is shooting a factory load.
 
Dec 24, 2011
896
0
0
25
Los Angeles, CA
Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

I'm not speaking about factory ammo, 284Win only had 150gr. powerpoint ammo made by Winchester. If you look at 284 loads in a reloading manual, they are all at 58K PSI. The increase in max pressure does certainly make a difference in velocity, which is why the 280AI can match 7RM mild loads when loaded to max, along with the increased case capacity.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,173
475
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not speaking about factory ammo, 284Win only had 150gr. powerpoint ammo made by Winchester. If you look at 284 loads in a reloading manual, they are all at 58K PSI. The increase in max pressure does certainly make a difference in velocity, which is why the 280AI can match 7RM mild loads when loaded to max, along with the increased case capacity. </div></div>

The 284 was released by Winchester stuffed into lever actions, it's loaded down significantly due to that.

You and I are saying the same thing. Loading to the capability of the brass and not what the loading manual waters down to (for the lever gun actions) is going to net you a boost in performance for all the cartridges, but most notably the 284 will get more boost over what the manuals say because it was artificially limited to reduce the load on weaker actions.
 
Dec 24, 2011
896
0
0
25
Los Angeles, CA
Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

indeed, we are saying the same thing, most modern reloaders load the 284 to 65K anyway. I only wish more factory ammunition was available for the 284. the 150gr. PP at 2860fps is pretty anemic compared to what is achievable, I get 3000fps with 162gr. rounds, 3000fps ought to be easily achievable. Whats the min OAL with the 280AI and Berger 180gr. Hybrids?
 

jbaird

Full Member
Dec 1, 2011
58
0
6
55
Dallas,Tx.
Good thing that there isnt this many choices at the Gas pump,,,, N0 0ne would make a choice with confidence... Lets just pick 3: Regular unleaded med and super unleaded>> .260/.308/300WM nothing else needed....................
 
Mar 30, 2013
3
0
0
this is just my 2 cents worth

I consider the 308 and .30-'06 to be a family because they are so directly related

Hands down the 308 is the best round. I prefer the 3006 because I am old school but there is one advantage the 308 has over the 06. that is the enourmous support offered to reloading it to bench rest quality, surpassed by far over even our beloved 06.

alot of the other rounds listed have one or two unique capabilities over the 308 or 06 but they sacrifice in other significant areas I, for one am unwilling to compromise in.

Thats just me

the best caliber choices have existed theoretically since the 1880's. Most but not all european countries chose the 6 mm calibers for several valid reasons. 6mm calibers shoot flatter and have less recoil. That benifits soldiers less familier with shooting.

Some other eropean contrys and America chose the 30 cal for another but significant reason. the ability to knock down game as well as humans.

The army chose the 45-70 because it could take down a a man on a horse, buffalo and any big game in north america. The same consideration was used to choos the 45 long colt in 255 grain. You could take down a man, a horse and just about any big game in north america, The reason this is important is because often weapons were used to hunt game to feed troops where logistical support was limited.

The british chose the 303 for essentially the same reason, many an african game animal up to and including Elephant were taken down with a 303. essentially a 30 calliber round.

the geographic locations colonised , and the animals there in determined the choice of calibers chosen.

When a choice was made in the 1880's up through 1910's to select the next generation of caliber it will be remembered that both britain and the u.s. evaluated the 6mm family of catridges. but for separate reasons they stayed with the 30 cal. britain long befor ww1 had considered and selected a 6mm family of round for its next caliber choice but war intervened befor a serious effort to change over occured. America chose the 30 cal because as much for civilian/commercial reason as military. the 30-40 krag as well as the 3006 could take down game in N america.

The 308 does everything a 3006 does for the purpose of hunting as well as military considerations. It has benifited enormously from the evolution and development of the 3006 and now as a competition round it is further supported in the bench rest community.

while the 223 and the 6 mm family of calibers has proven superior in several significant areas, they do not surpass the 30 cals in all areas of importants.

I like the 3006 because it does everything a 308 does and a few things better. the magnum rounds are overkill and have significant draw backs in terms of reloading and equipment life.

even in the 40's and 50's when engineers went back to the drawing board, they found themselves lead by simple mathematics back to the 30 cal. in the west, clearly influenst by the commercial market the 308 was chosen but in the east where commericla influense is not a factor the 30 call was again chosen (7,62x39).

more recently the ,22 has been a new choice of caliber but with reservations and limitations. many have reverted back to the 6mm family of rounds and some have gone to the .30 magnums and the 336. but the majority of shooters have come full circle back again to the 308. Those who want long range knock down power have gone to the 300 mags and the 336's. These are the children of a younger generation who do not know of or recall the 3006.

the 3006 will do anything and everything any other round will do and do it better. The 308 is better because it is much better supported by the industry.

If I had to choose 1 round it would be the 308 but it is in reality a close second to the 3006. It has been that way for over a hundred years.

anything else has too many comprimises and or limitations. Basic math supports the 308.

2 cents please.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,173
475
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
Mike16, that's a great post and exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread almost 3 years ago :)

You and I have a similar affection for the 30-06 and I made a comment not long ago when discussing the 30c debate with a friend.

308 does 1 thing exceptionally well, and that thing is that it does a lot of things decently. It's a jack of all trades and master of none beyond that singular fact. Lots of things beat it in trajectory, punch, but it is exceedingly well supported in the factory ammo department, lots of support for choice reloading components, etc.

I now have all 3, 308, 30-06 and 300WM. The 30-06 is a very nice "bridging" caliber and I have a deep appreciation for it and its efficacy at ranges both short and long.

There are others and frankly I shoot primarily 6.5 Creedmoor because it's my main match rifle for anything out to 1000-1200yd and it has an almost identical trajectory to my 30-06 slinging 208's for a substantial redux in recoil, short action, etc etc. My 30-06 is always close to the heart and with the 190-210gr class pills it is a heavy hitter that I have no concerns easily killing anything that walks this continent.


I have a 26" 30-06 on a mauser action that was, until recently, the holder of my "longest hit" @ 1,740yd. This past weekend I took the 300WM out to 1.980 with similar performance that the 30-06 had at 1740.
 
Jun 14, 2007
415
1
18
North West WY
I didn't see the 6.5 Grendel.
In a bolt gun it will reach out like a Creedmor with longer barrel life and less recoil. It can be had in the lighter AR platform vs. the heavier LR/AR-10.


I'd like to see a chart on what actions the larger/odder cartridges will fit in. Will a CheyTac fit in a 700 or 110?? Will a 338 Lapua fit in a '17 Enfield??
 
Aug 30, 2012
9
0
0
50
I have a win mod 70 in 30-06. I have been pondering the options of rebarrel to .280 or .280AI out of these 2 is there much of a gain in the AI version to make it worth it? Other option is to redo .06 in a heavier barrel (26") possibly a break. Again any gains with AI version. I am interested in the .215bergers. Bohem have you tried these in a straight .06 or a AI? From another site there was a comparison between .210 and the 215 bergers. The 215's were outstanding performers. Has anyone used the 215's in a -06. There is a add for a 30-06AI for sale that was pushing the around 2750fps. Right now my .06 is a good brush gun to a point but in need of some help. Any info would be helpful. Thanks.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,173
475
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
Clemens I haven't shot the 215's from anything personally, I'm waiting for some to be delivered so that I can try them out in my 300WM at extended distance.

There really isn't anything you can do to a 30-06 case that will improve the 1200+ performance that a 280/280AI provides with heavy 7mm bullets. I've done 6.5, 7, and 30-06 variants. The 6.5-06 is awesome but the lower BC of the 140 6.5's compared to the 180 7's shows up in wind past 1000yd and the barrel life difference is really incomparable for sane conversation.

I've wanted a 338-06 as a brush gun for a long time and have just never gotten around to building one. With the fantastic selection of 7, 30, and 33 caliber bullets for hunting and match applications it is tough to ignore the flexibility and performance that the venerable old case affords reloaders.

A 280 Rem & 338-06 switch barrel on a long action is something that I'm sure I'll build in the coming 18-24 months. Likely about 26" on the 280 for reaching out and 18-20" on the 338-06 for hard hitting critter gitter loads. I had been thinking of a "rat rifle" in 30-06 throated to handle the 210 class neatly from the factory internal mag, something that is easy to pack, climb, and hunt with. With my newly barreled 300WM though having a 280, 30-06, 338-06 and a 300WM seems mostly redundant for targets.
 
Last edited:

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,173
475
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
The 6.5-06 is a great hunting caliber in the western US, I've had a couple as well as a friend has had a couple now too. For a match rifle it goes through barrels at an alarming rate and has performance like the 6.5WSM and 6.5SAUM.

The 7-08 AI is a great little caliber too, starting with the middle pressure loads from a reloading manual is a good place to fireform brass and then work up from there. When fireforming the brass I've found the best way to do it is start with 308 and only neck it *most* of the way down, leaving a small, false shoulder in the neck to act as the headspacing geometry. This will give you the best case longevity and protect against case head separations and shoulder splitting during fire forming.
 
Feb 25, 2013
2
0
0
I am new to reloading and I want to load a 80 gr bullet for a 223 bolt gun. It has a 1-9 twist rate. I know that the 80 gr bullet calls for a 1-8 twist rate in an AR style platform, my guess is that it would be unstable in my barrel. Any thoughts?
 
Aug 30, 2012
9
0
0
50
.280-or .280ai be better for LR deer and elk then .06 do they pack enough energy past 700yds . Or this one of those moments of each one I prefer .280's with 180gr or 30-06 with 208, 210,215? So much to choose from.
 
May 30, 2013
4
0
0
canada
Im not exactly a new shooter, but Im poor on my equipment knowledge and Im all ears on any suggestion. right now Im shooting a 270 WSM, but i want yo reach out farther and not kill my wallet on ammo i.e. 338 Lepua round. My question is, what caliber(s) should i look into that will reach out to 1000 yards+ for target and hunting purposes.
 

garandman

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 17, 2009
1,438
0
0
51
Spartanburg, SC
Im not exactly a new shooter, but Im poor on my equipment knowledge and Im all ears on any suggestion. right now Im shooting a 270 WSM, but i want yo reach out farther and not kill my wallet on ammo i.e. 338 Lepua round. My question is, what caliber(s) should i look into that will reach out to 1000 yards+ for target and hunting purposes.
300 Win Mag is prolly the best bet, and its what I'd get if I wasn't set on 338 or larger. People keep recommending it to me in stead of the 338.
 
Last edited:

VKC

Gunny Sergeant
Mar 29, 2010
2,330
2
38
Battle Born, U.S.A.
Im not exactly a new shooter, but Im poor on my equipment knowledge and Im all ears on any suggestion. right now Im shooting a 270 WSM, but i want yo reach out farther and not kill my wallet on ammo i.e. 338 Lepua round. My question is, what caliber(s) should i look into that will reach out to 1000 yards+ for target and hunting purposes.
Why not just rebarrel that rifle into a 7mm WSM. Switching to the 7mm bullets will give you higher BC options then 270.

The 180gr Berger bullets @2900fps+ are great for hunting and target shooting. Under 7mil drop and 1-1.5mil drift for 10mph wind @1000yds with more than 1200 ft-ibs of energy, depending on DA and muzzle velocity.
 
Apr 27, 2013
140
0
0
Why is it a con for 30-06 to have limited gas operated choices but not a con for other rounds that have no gas operated options? Just wonderin!
 
Jul 4, 2013
168
0
0
Colorado
The initial thread start used the bolt face and action length to categorize. A couple of calibers come to mind that are designed to work with the .223 short action - magazine length, though the bolt face is a bit different - ie 6.8 SPC and 300 Blackout. Also, the 6.5mm Creedmore could be added unless I missed it.
 
Sep 6, 2013
1
0
0
For your consideration: 257 Weatherby

Pros: Extremely flat shooting. Extremely
Ammo is available at most shooting stores..Not Wal-Mart easy, but not bad.
Sticking around for a long time. Where did the 25/.06 go?
Very low recoil.
Favorite caliber of Roy Weatherby

Cons: Barrel Life for target shooters. Hunters will rarely get to a round count that will matter.
Temptation to muzzle brake it since it is a Weatherby..please don't....you may never hear anything else again!
 

mcfred

Sergeant
Feb 17, 2011
685
20
18
SW USA
7mm WSSM

I think this thread is a good idea. Here's my take on the 7mm WSSM:

For use with Short Action, Magnum Bolt Face

Pros:
7mm has *lots* of good bullet choices from hunting to long range to varmints
The short case works well with short actions, with long high BC bullets still seated above the shoulder
Even with a long throat, loaded rounds are easily less than 2.8" COL so magazines are no problem
Cartridge has a case capacity between the 7mm-08 and the 284, both of which run into mag length and capacity issues with heavy bullets
Medium case capacity means lots of powder options with a medium or medium-slow burn rate
Works well with a 7mm WSM switch barrel, uses same bolt, magazines, bullets, etc.
Much better ballistics than a 308, and much better barrel life than a 7mm WSM (good compromise for high volume match shooting)
Relatively cost effective for its level of performance

Cons:
It's a wildcat, so no factory ammo, need custom dies, custom barrels, annealing WSSM brass to neck up, etc.
Recoil is not bad, but it's more recoil than most 6mm or 6.5mm when shooting 180's and could be a factor when you need to call your own shots in a match
WSSM is not one of the Uber-popular rounds so brass may be hard to find (although the brass I'm using was about the only thing sportsmans warehouse still had in stock...)

As far as ballistics, in a short action it's hard to beat a 7mm WSM, but I think the 7mm WSSM is a good compromise for shorter ranges and more rounds. I've been using a load with the berger 180 hybrids at 2800fps; run the numbers on those and compare with the 308, 260, etc. Some more info is here:

http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper...199189-7mm-wssm-7wsm-switch-barrel-comps.html
 
Last edited:

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,241
206
63
in yooperland
I think this thread is a good idea. Here's my take on the 7mm WSSM:

For use with Short Action, Magnum Bolt Face

Pros:
7mm has *lots* of good bullet choices from hunting to long range to varmints
The short case works well with short actions, with long high BC bullets still seated above the shoulder
Even with a long throat, loaded rounds are easily less than 2.8" COL so magazines are no problem
Cartridge has a case capacity between the 7mm-08 and the 284, both of which run into mag length and capacity issues with heavy bullets
Medium case capacity means lots of powder options with a medium or medium-slow burn rate
Works well with a 7mm WSM switch barrel, uses same bolt, magazines, bullets, etc.
Much better ballistics than a 308, and much better barrel life than a 7mm WSM (good compromise for high volume match shooting)
Relatively cost effective for its level of performance

Cons:
It's a wildcat, so no factory ammo, need custom dies, custom barrels, annealing WSSM brass to neck up, etc.
Recoil is not bad, but it's more recoil than most 6mm or 6.5mm when shooting 180's and could be a factor when you need to call your own shots in a match
WSSM is not one of the Uber-popular rounds so brass may be hard to find (although the brass I'm using was about the only thing sportsmans warehouse still had in stock...)

As far as ballistics, in a short action it's hard to beat a 7mm WSM, but I think the 7mm WSSM is a good compromise for shorter ranges and more rounds. I've been using a load with the berger 180 hybrids at 2800fps; run the numbers on those and compare with the 308, 260, etc. Some more info is here:

http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper...199189-7mm-wssm-7wsm-switch-barrel-comps.html
Great thread McFred! I run a long barreled, tight twisted 7mm-08 and your ballistics beats it by 100 fps. I think one would do well, if this caught on more.

Sad to say though, with Savage getting sold, our days of the off the shelf factory wildcat are done.
 
Oct 30, 2013
12
0
0
Charlotte, NC
Short V Long Action

So I've seen a lot of reference to short and long actions. I did some searching and have a slight idea as to the difference. But I'm still clueless as to the pros and cons of each outside of preferences like movement required in action. Also, when selecting off the shelf ammo, I've never seen anything specified short or long?
I have a Browning .308 Xbolt and a Sako .243 heavy barrel I use for my distance shooting and am shopping for a rifle I can start shooting at precision rifle courses.
What's the difference in the actions (short/long) and how does one differentiate the two when buying ammo? As I think I've seen folks mention .308 in short and long.
Sorry if this is novice stuff.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,173
475
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
So I've seen a lot of reference to short and long actions. I did some searching and have a slight idea as to the difference. But I'm still clueless as to the pros and cons of each outside of preferences like movement required in action. Also, when selecting off the shelf ammo, I've never seen anything specified short or long?
I have a Browning .308 Xbolt and a Sako .243 heavy barrel I use for my distance shooting and am shopping for a rifle I can start shooting at precision rifle courses.
What's the difference in the actions (short/long) and how does one differentiate the two when buying ammo? As I think I've seen folks mention .308 in short and long.
Sorry if this is novice stuff.
Hi,

The question is a "new guy" question but it is fundamental to learning and understanding the modern bolt action industry, we all started somewhere.

To be concise in comparison:

308 is designed in a "short action"
300 Win is designed in a "long action"

The action length really only dictates the length of the magazine area, and that's why longer cartridges need longer actions. The simple approach is to think "Is this about the same size overall as a 308? OK, it is a short action round. If it isn't, then it's a long action"

While that's not exactly the right way, it is a highly functional mentality to adopt.

You can put a 308 in a long action and it will shoot just great including feeding from the magazine. Alternatively you can put a 30-06 in a short action but it will not feed out of a magazine, it would immediately become a single shot and if you needed to eject a live round you would have to pull the bolt from the back of the rifle to make room for the loaded round to come out.

Hope that helps.
 
Dec 22, 2013
42
0
0
Appleton Wisconsin
Hello, im a beginner in long distance shooting, im currently building my custom tikka t3 and im trying to make an informed decision on caliber.

so I need your help

im trying to decide between only these 2 calibers 308 and 7mm-08

both barrels will be 18-18.5in the 308(1:10 twist) 7mm-08 (1:9.5 twist)
my shooting distances will be mostly 300-600yds and some 600-1200(1200yd range 1.5 hours away, 600yd range 45min away, 300yd range 30min away)
95% target shooting 5% hog hunting sub 300yds.
I believe 7mm-08 rounds work in aics 308 magazines from what ive read so they will work with the chassis I own
for awile ill be shooting factory loads then eventually getting into handloading

308 is widely available with factory match loads, cheap to shoot and barrel life is great, seems to the standard caliber because it does everything well

7mm-08 has less recoil, flatter shooting, less effected by wind, "similar" knock down as 308, once into reloading there appears to be lots of options

I dont really know what the barrel life is for 7mm-08, ive read 308 is in the realm of 6-7k

set me straight guys

I could use some more pros and cons between the two



thank you mdesign for the charts that helps me a bit.

Just a chart of some windage and drop comparisons.



The data that made the charts..
 
When choosing an "every day" caliber, I felt compelled to go practical for my location.

(quoted from bohem)
30-06 Springfield
Pros:
I can wax poetic on this chambering and parent case, but I’ll try to keep it short… Just to keep a reference in mind, I shoot the 208 Amax at 2875 from a 26" barreled -06 and it runs alongside a 300 WM.

• Incredibly flexible chambering for a reloader
• Reduced recoil 110gr Vmax for light practice loads, smoking hot 110 Vmax for varmints/predators all the way through 240gr ultra heavy bullets can be loaded in this case with excellent results
• Huge choice of excellent bullets in both hunting and target applications
• Excellent reloading components available
• Forgiving powder choices
• Easy to find loading data
• Very good barrel life
• Loaded hot in a bolt action this case can compete with the smaller 300 Magnums like 300 WM and 300 WSM without trouble
• Long supersonic range in excess of 1700yd (again, bullet, temp, altitude dependent)
• Lapua brass is available
• Very large selection of factory rifles and custom rifles available for it
• Decent selection of match grade factory ammo (not like the 308 though)
• Mil surp ammo is still available as well as mil surp powder, bullets and brass for cheap practicing
• Excellent choice of caliber for just about anything on earth, easily anything in North America. While I wouldn’t advocate it over something larger, 30-06 and 8mm Mauser have been used to kill elephants and water buffalo.

Cons:
• Generally accepted limit for what the average shooter can stand in terms of recoil
• If you like gas guns there’s few choices in 30-06 and the common one, the M1 Garand, can’t take the full potential of the chambering without serious or catastrophic damage.
• Reduced choices for match grade factory ammo, it exists but it’s not as prevalent as 308 ammo. In reality, 308 match ammo is the gold standard for factory match choices.
Another Pro
After Sandy Hook there was very little on the shelves here in the People's Republik of Kommiefornia, but .30-06 was one of them. While I can offer no technical advantages to it over anything else, ammo-availability for those of us that do not re-load at the moment should be a consideration. It is a solid hunting round with many options as noted so graciously by bohem.

That is my meager offering, hopefully someone will find it helpful.
 
Last edited:

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,241
206
63
in yooperland
When choosing an "every day" caliber, I felt compelled to go practical for my location.



Another Pro
After Sandy Hook there was very little on the shelves here in the People's Republik of Kommiefornia, but .30-06 was one of them. While I can offer no technical advantages to it over anything else, ammo-availability for those of us that do not re-load at the moment should be a consideration. It is a solid hunting round with many options as noted so graciously by bohem.

That is my meager offering, hopefully someone will find it helpful.
One could also say that about the .270 as well. Either one can do anything you need it to.
 
Last edited:
Dec 14, 2013
3
0
0
no offense taken
6GAP is indeed variation of 6rem AI

the rest is open to much conjecture, personal opinions being what they are.

INFO can be found here, 6br and many other websites
those who have a quest for info can find it easy enuff

Digest as you see fit, i simply provided an input and my opinion.

6.5/257 AI, 6.5/6rem AI or whatever ya wanna call it
IMHO has many attributes of interest, whether or not you agree is subjective....as is this topic
I used to run a 6.5 x 57 AI in F Class, using 45-46 of 4350 in a 30" barrel it would launch 142 SMK @ 2950ish, barrel life around 2000 rounds, depending on accuracy requirements, case life was excellent using RWS 7 x 57 cases and forming to suit, BUT the same barrel rechambered in 6.5 x 47 using 130 Bergers delivers the same results in drift using 37.5 of Varget with more barrel life and less recoil.
Regards
Matt P
 

6Dasher

Full Member
Apr 25, 2005
453
0
0
Netherlands
Not really. You need a bit more powder to get the same speed. As no two barrels last the same number of rounds, no one has ever really proven moly does anything to lengthen barrel life. It allows for longer strings between cleaning, but is a pita to clean afterwards. If you don't clean it in a CM barrel, you get the chance of pitting as moly/danzac is hydrostatic. hBN does the same as moly, but without the downside of attracting water. I
d only use coating to lessen copper fouling, but powder will still be the main factor in barrel life. IMHO...
 
Oct 8, 2012
503
17
18
47
Glendale, AZ
OK. So no one has made a real play on the .25-06 that I have seen here.

I shoot a .25-06 Ackley Imp, but will try to boast it's wonders here.

.25-06 Ackley Imp.
Pros:
Low recoil
Good round from varmint to medium sized game (some say up to elk, but I would not personally choose the cartridge for that large of game)
Bullet weights from 75 grains to 120 grains.
Good velocity (my Ackley launches 100 gr. @ 3600+fps for my load and up to 3750 and 115 gr. Bergers at 3460fps for my load, but up to 3600+)
Relatively cheap to shoot
Non-belted case (vs. the Weatherby Mag)
Good case life (so far for me at 6 loadings on some cases)
Brass in .25-06 Rem parent case available from Rem, Win, Federal, Hornady, Nosler, Norma
Good accuracy potential
Can shoot factory .25-06 off the shelf if needed
Low brass growth
Supersonic with 115gr. Bergers to 1500+/- yds.
Works well in standard long action with room to run out the longer bullets
Can be re-barreled/chambered from any of the .30-06 parent case actions (.25-06, .270, .280, .30-06, etc.) or any other .473 case head long action
Freaking SEXY looking cartridge!

Cons:
Short barrel life?
No factory loads available
Fire forming brass
Little reloading data available
Light for large bodied game animals
Limited bullet selection in .257 caliber
BCs are not what the 6.5s or the heavy .243/6mm are (115 Berger is .466)
Not a popular chambering, so dies and reamers are scarce and/or expensive
No factory rifles chambered in the round (but a .25-06 Rem could be re-chambered for the Ackley version)
 
Last edited:
Feb 25, 2014
7
0
0
Very helpful info...thanks for that. Have two I'm working with. Pre 64 M70 in .264, and Remmy 700 5R Mil-Spec in .308. Am very anxious to see what each will do at 800 as both are sub MOA at 100. Thanks again.
 

fryj00

Steel punisher
Nov 11, 2010
122
0
0
Pittsburgh, PA
.284 Winchester

Pros
-Very versatile cartridge...good for an excellent all-around rifle
-Allows the use of very high BC bullets. High .500's to mid .600's are common
-Plenty of power to take down most large game at pretty long range
-Supersonic to beyond 1300+ yards even with low MV (with slick bullets)
-Relatively good barrel life for a high-performace cartridge(2000+)
-Can be done in a short or long action
-3000+ fps in a long action when chambered for long bullets
-Uses .308 bolt face
-Fits 8 rounds in a standard AICS short action mag. Mags without the binder plate can fit rounds loaded to a COAL of 2.960
-Efficient case. Delivers more energy-for-capacity than 7mm Win Mag and 7mm WSM



Cons
-There is no factory ammo
-Loading is a pain. There is no native .284 case available currently. You have to buy 6.5-284 brass and neck up...and that's only the beginning
-Kicks too much for an ideal match gun
-Not quite powerful enough to be good for ELR
-Use in a short action limits bullet choice due to magazine length restrictions (forget VLDs)
-5rd magazine capacity in long action



Notes: Short action .284's may see improved loading with the new Lapua 7mm 150 Scenar coming out. As it stands, the Sierra 175 & 180 Matchkings
and the Berger 168 Classic Hunter are probably the best choices. I get 2700fps with the 180's (.660BC) and Reloader 17. Match bullets will require a twist
of 1:9 or 1:8.
 
Last edited:
Apr 15, 2014
106
0
0
central texas
6.5 grendel

Pros
1k yards supersonic
low recoil
With a big magazine you can send 25 rounds down range in a hurry
Great accuracy
Very efficient
$1 a round factory ammo from Hornady that will shoot sub moa out of most guns
Nearly identical ballistics as 308 wit high bc rounds. (180 accubond)

Cons
1 major ammo manufacturer behind it
Plenty of other more popular ar15 rounds that have loyal followings
 
Apr 15, 2014
106
0
0
central texas
Accurateshooter.com.

that site has a wealth of info on the topics that are discussed on this thread. I really love the topic. I built a custom sako actioned 308 20 years ago and am always tempted to rebarrel into the next new popular caliber but just can't do it till the barrel finally quits. I've been saying that for thousands of rounds!

You guys heard about the 26 nosler? It's a big magnum case (7stw I believe). Supposably as much velocity at 400 yards as the 260 at da muzzle. I think most people would think this will be a serious over bore barrel burner, but this is the first cartridge nosler has put there name on....I can't wait to see what barrel life will be, if its more than 3k I just might have to have one.
 

mj1995

Little airborne
Apr 11, 2012
219
9
18
22
Tacoma Wa
Anybody have info on 6.5 and 7km saum I haven't been able to find to much. I would like to put it on a long action and use heavy bullets in each. If I were running a berger 7mm 180 match hybrid target would it be able to be seated all the way out and still fit a short action mag or not? That was my thinking why I would go long action. Also what bolt face are these cartridges and any other info would be greatly appreciated.
 
Nov 24, 2013
970
78
28
Dallas
Anybody have info on 6.5 and 7km saum I haven't been able to find to much. I would like to put it on a long action and use heavy bullets in each. If I were running a berger 7mm 180 match hybrid target would it be able to be seated all the way out and still fit a short action mag or not? That was my thinking why I would go long action. Also what bolt face are these cartridges and any other info would be greatly appreciated.
I am looking for folks with first hand knowledge of this as well, but the last few weeks of research have led me to my current conclusion that while it may be possible to run a 7mm SAUM in a short action loaded with Berger 180s, it will be less than optimal. My reasoning is that in order to get COAL down to the range where it will feed from SA magazines, the 180s will have to be seated deep enough to either intrude on case (powder) capacity or have the beginning of the ogive below the case mouth (more likely, it will be both).

Either way, IMO it makes more sense to go with a long action for that chambering, because at that point you'll have enough room in the magazine for whatever bullets you like seated to whatever COAL works best for your specific rifle.

Regarding the bolt face, the SAUM and WSM cartridges both run a magnum bolt face.
 
Top Bottom