++Bighorn TL3 Builds++

dttheliman

Pushing those 6.5's
Jun 27, 2013
99
23
8
San Antonio
Keystone spun me up a 20” 30 cal for an AR would absolutely use him again that barrel / chamber is excellent and just plain shoots , know it’s off subject but topic diverted to a keystone question...... back to bighorn now folks!
 
Likes: gnatmm

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
480
144
43
Rhode Island
EDIT: This was just a simple issue with the extractor in the 223 Push Feed Bolt Heads ONLY and has been addressed by Bighorn with a replacement extractor.

For those running 223 Rem with the TL3's... Has anyone noticed that upon ejection the cartridge is essentially thrown into the side of the lug raceway and then out of the ejection port?

I have experimented a bit, running the bolt really slow, and really fast, with a few different mags, and the result is always the same. I also have two 223 bolt heads (one CRF, and one push feed) and they both exhibit this behavior. I think the problem is exacerbated with an empty mag, because it allows the cartridge to hang more freely as the bolt is being pulled rearward.

Basically, the extractor is at the 9 o'clock position (for a LH action) and the mechanical ejector is at the 3 o'clock position, so the ejection angle is essentially horizontal and the shoulder junction of the cartridge makes contact with the inner edge of the lug raceway. I first noticed this when I saw some very light and minor ding marks at the junction between the cartridge body and shoulder.

I can try to take a video later if I'm not being clear, but I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced this. The round always ejects successfully, but it is not thrown "clear" of the ejection port, it makes contact with the receiver raceway almost 100% (and I say almost cause I just haven't watched every single ejection).
 
Last edited:

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,875
854
113
Pacific Northwest
I just checked mine and it doesn't do that. The fired case when being pulled back remains fixed under the extractor pointing straight out, hovering over the feed lips of the mag as it's pulled back. Then when it hits the mechanical ejector it goes straight out the ejection port, wraps around the rear of the port and actually hits the outside of the action just behind the ejection port before bouncing away.

I did a little slow-mo video to look at it, not sure if I can easily upload here though.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
480
144
43
Rhode Island
I just checked mine and it doesn't do that. The fired case when being pulled back remains fixed under the extractor pointing straight out, hovering over the feed lips of the mag as it's pulled back. Then when it hits the mechanical ejector it goes straight out the ejection port, wraps around the rear of the port and actually hits the outside of the action just behind the ejection port before bouncing away.

I did a little slow-mo video to look at it, not sure if I can easily upload here though.
EDIT: This was just a simple issue with the extractor in the 223 Push Feed Bolt Heads ONLY and has been addressed by Bighorn with a replacement extractor.

You did this with a 223 bolt head? If so I am assuming you mean the CRF 223 bolt head?? I might have to get back in touch with Bighorn... my cartridge "droops" significantly once it leaves the chamber and is only supported by the extractor...

Now that we are potentially talking about clearance/tolerance fitment between the extractor and the cartridge rim, I am using Lapua brass to provide additional information... Had the same experience with Norma brass so I am kinda ruling out any idea that brass might be the culprit?
 
Last edited:

BigHorn / ZAI Team

Aaron, Eric, Ray
Jul 24, 2017
106
218
43
Bennet, NE
www.bighornarms.com
For those running 223 Rem with the TL3's... Has anyone noticed that upon ejection the cartridge is essentially thrown into the side of the lug raceway and then out of the ejection port?

I have experimented a bit, running the bolt really slow, and really fast, with a few different mags, and the result is always the same. I also have two 223 bolt heads (one CRF, and one push feed) and they both exhibit this behavior. I think the problem is exacerbated with an empty mag, because it allows the cartridge to hang more freely as the bolt is being pulled rearward.

Basically, the extractor is at the 9 o'clock position (for a LH action) and the mechanical ejector is at the 3 o'clock position, so the ejection angle is essentially horizontal and the shoulder junction of the cartridge makes contact with the inner edge of the lug raceway. I first noticed this when I saw some very light and minor ding marks at the junction between the cartridge body and shoulder.

I can try to take a video later if I'm not being clear, but I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced this. The round always ejects successfully, but it is not thrown "clear" of the ejection port, it makes contact with the receiver raceway almost 100% (and I say almost cause I just haven't watched every single ejection).
Can you post a video? We're looking into it with one of our 223's right now.

Are you experiencing a situation where the cartridge is being moved into the receiver and then out (moving away from the ejection port first, then out the ejection port)? Where does the brass end up in relation to the rifle? Does it exhibit this with an empty cartridge only or loaded as well?
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
480
144
43
Rhode Island
Can you post a video? We're looking into it with one of our 223's right now.

Are you experiencing a situation where the cartridge is being moved into the receiver and then out (moving away from the ejection port first, then out the ejection port)? Where does the brass end up in relation to the rifle? Does it exhibit this with an empty cartridge only or loaded as well?
EDIT: This was just a simple issue with the extractor in the 223 Push Feed Bolt Heads ONLY and has been addressed by Bighorn with a replacement extractor.

I will get a video tonight. I can't answer your first question right now, but the brass usually just ends up besides the rifle, no real consistent pattern because of how it is being thrown into the raceway and then out of the port. Definitely exhibits this with both empty and loaded cartridges. Like I mentioned above, my cartridge "droops" alot when it is just being supported in the bolt face by the extractor. I will get some pictures and a video, but you will see that there's no chance the cartridge will clear the ejection port by how much the neck of the cartridge hangs down relative to the receiver centerline.

This is with your 223 push feed bolt head, and I will have to confirm whether the droop is the same with the CRF bolt head I have.
 
Last edited:

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,875
854
113
Pacific Northwest
You did this with a 223 bolt head? If so I am assuming you mean the CRF 223 bolt head?? I might have to get back in touch with Bighorn... my cartridge "droops" significantly once it leaves the chamber and is only supported by the extractor...
Yes, this is with CRF 223 bolt head. If holds the brass nice and snug against the bolt face, no drooping. I'm using Lake City brass. Let me know if you need measurements of the rim diameter/thickness.
 

BigHorn / ZAI Team

Aaron, Eric, Ray
Jul 24, 2017
106
218
43
Bennet, NE
www.bighornarms.com
Alright, we've got it figured out. It's in the extractor of the PF bolt face. If you could get in touch with us privately and send your shipping information, I'd be happy to send you an extractor that will eliminate the issue.

For future reference, the PUSH FEED 223 bolt head in a TL3 (they exist for the purpose of 223 AI) will be good to go with this revelation. It's a very simple fix and we are changing out the extractors in what we have on hand here. There are only 6 of these bolt heads in the wild and we can back track who ordered them.

We're sorry, this was an oversight on our end. We will, like always, be sure to correct any issue you may have with our products.

Thank you! - Bighorn Team
 

DEW0341

O⚡️3
May 19, 2017
174
41
28
Camp Pen, CA
FYI I have a few hundred rounds down mine with .223 both lake city and prime brass haven’t experienced issue, just checked again no issue with lake city.

As with poster above me. Another reason I’ll continue to buy Bighorn. A TL3 long action is next
 

BigHorn / ZAI Team

Aaron, Eric, Ray
Jul 24, 2017
106
218
43
Bennet, NE
www.bighornarms.com
To make this very clear....

If you are running a 223 CONTROLLED ROUND FEED bolt head, left or right hand, it will NOT exhibit the undesirable "droop" that was noticed. The "drooping" has not been found in anyone's notes to cause unreliable ejection or functionality issues with the action. The only issue this would have caused is minor marks on brass. We understand that this can be perceived as problematic if the same brass is used over and over, so we are changing the extractor in PUSH FEED bolt heads as a remedy to the drooping.

If you do not have a 223 PUSH FEED bolt head (only 6 in the wild), you will not experience any of the above situations.

Thank you
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
480
144
43
Rhode Island
To make this very clear....

If you are running a 223 CONTROLLED ROUND FEED bolt head, left or right hand, it will NOT exhibit the undesirable "droop" that was noticed. The "drooping" has not been found in anyone's notes to cause unreliable ejection or functionality issues with the action. The only issue this would have caused is minor marks on brass. We understand that this can be perceived as problematic if the same brass is used over and over, so we are changing the extractor in PUSH FEED bolt heads as a remedy to the drooping.

If you do not have a 223 PUSH FEED bolt head (only 6 in the wild), you will not experience any of the above situations.

Thank you
Just to clear the air so no misinformation is present...

Like Bighorn mentioned, this is only something I was experiencing with my 223 Push Feed bolt head. I also have a 223 CRF bolt head that does not exhibit any issues and holds the cartridge snug to the bolt face as designed.

The problem was just with the extractor in the Push Feed bolt head; it was not holding the cartridge snug to the bolt face during extraction, which allowed the cartridge to "droop" down, and make contact with the receiver raceway during ejection. You can see this very clearly in the attached photos. The first picture is with the Push Feed Bolt Head and the second picture is with the CRF Bolt Head.

Ray/Bighorn have already let me know that they are sending a replacement extractor for my Push Feed bolt head that will remedy this issue. Again this is a very isolated incident given that there are very few people actually using the push feed bolt heads in their 223s. As mentioned above, this was just causing some minor marks on the brass and not any real failures to eject or anything like that.

A big thanks to Ray and the Bighorn crew for getting me straightened out right away. (y)
 

Attachments

May 15, 2011
233
42
28
105
Has anyone compiled a list of the shops doing shouldered prefits? I know of PVA and Keystone, curious if there are others and if any of them are doing the quick change wrench flats already milled.
 

SCGunner84

New Hide Member
Sep 19, 2018
20
5
3
I picked my TL3 up this wk. Its my first custom action, probably going to be doing a 6.5 Saum. Hope to be slinging 140-150 grainers 3k+ out of a 26 inch proof or Bartlein.
 
Likes: jda2631

gconnoyer

Online Training Member
Dec 19, 2017
104
50
28
29
St Louis, MO
Has anyone compiled a list of the shops doing shouldered prefits? I know of PVA and Keystone, curious if there are others and if any of them are doing the quick change wrench flats already milled.
I would bet 90% of gunsmiths will get you a pre-fit for a TL3 because of their tight tolerances. I know all of the local-ish ones around me will.
I dont know of many that are doing the wrench flat thing though.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,875
854
113
Pacific Northwest
Get the Ross Vise, easy way to make a switch barrel without having to add flats to every barrel.

If a gunsmith has done a few TL3 barrels before and is capable of matching specs to an action without having it in hand then they can make you a prefit based of that. Just have a conversation with them and explain what you want. My current smith has done 4 barrels for me without ever having seen either of my TL3 actions.
 

scwhit

New Hide Member
Nov 13, 2018
2
1
3
IOWA
Just Purchased my XLR Element for the TL3, next purchase is going to be the barreled action from PVA. Seeing this thread makes me feel confident I made the right choice!
 
Mar 30, 2013
1,284
133
63
Maryland
Is that the Exodus in the top two pictures? Been talking to John Kyle about getting one for my coyote rig. They are a little heavier than I’d like but I think adding a proof will make it balance well

Yea, they are actually the same barreled action but I had the genesis light first. I wanted the exedous but it wasn't in stock at core at the time. Once one came available I bought it and sold the genesis. I liked the genesis but it wasn't what I needed. I love the exedous light. It's perfect. I am thinking about going proof as well to drop a bit of weight but as well as this balances as it is currently configured it realy doesn't feel as heavy as what I would think it weighs. It's not a tank, but not as light as an EH1a obviously. The bennifits far outweigh any drawbacks I can find, that's for sure.
 

Pusher591

Gunny Sergeant
Jun 18, 2009
2,586
164
63
34
Gaston County
Finally got my TL3 action in after 12 weeks, and thanks to you guys about 5k later she’s done. Turned out exactly how I wanted as a lightweight hunting/prs gun. Without a mag and bipod it came in right at 10.5lbs.

View attachment 6928211
Is that the bull/strait contour or is the standard contour? It looks like it doesn’t step down at the breach/chamber area if it’s the standard contour. It’s looks really good!!!
 

Chargerguy

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 18, 2017
13
2
3
Anyone have a pic of a shouldered 1.20" shank barrel on a Bighorn? I'm ordering up a PVA Rock Creek #4 Sporter and was hoping to see exactly how that 0.15" difference in diameter between the shank and action would look. Thanks!!!
 

arm017

Sergeant
Jun 5, 2017
477
153
43
Texas
Happy with how my TL3 ran at the PRS Finale this weekend. Plenty of dust, lots of wind on Day 1, tight time limits so you couldn't afford any gear issues. Action ran perfect all weekend without a hiccup, was able to pull a 32nd place finish out of 150 shooters. Definitely going to stick with it for next year.

View attachment 6980133
yep- it was a rough match for a lot of shooters because of the fine lime stoney dust. multiple defiances went down as did 5 impact DQs. May or may not have been related to the action - (most are reporting trigger issues- and one a ND) . But in an impact dominated field, TL3 was still holding its own.
 

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Oct 15, 2009
4,403
563
113
27
Mississippi
yep- it was a rough match for a lot of shooters because of the fine lime stoney dust. multiple defiances went down as did 5 impact DQs. May or may not have been related to the action - (most are reporting trigger issues- and one a ND) . But in an impact dominated field, TL3 was still holding its own.
Impact DQs? Disqualifications? Doesn't matter to me as obviously i own both, just curious how an actin DQs you? Less i've got that acronym wrong?

Wonder what the triggers were?

How did the mausingfield fair?
 
Sep 18, 2017
40
11
8
My first TL3 is on it way to my FFL right now and I have an opportunity to take it out this weekend if all the parts arrive on time. However my TT Diamond wont be here till late next week. My question is, I have a TT special on my Remage with a bottom bolt release, can I stall it on the TL3 even if it has the bolt release on the trigger? I would assume I would have to operate both the action release and trigger release at the same time to get the bolt out, but it would be worth it if I could shoot this weekend.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,875
854
113
Pacific Northwest
Impact DQs? Disqualifications? Doesn't matter to me as obviously i own both, just curious how an actin DQs you? Less i've got that acronym wrong?
From everything I heard the DQ's were all from inadvertenly touching off a round after closing the bolt. Didn't matter if the round went right next to the target, if you didn't mean to pull the trigger that was a match DQ. Tight stage time limits and finale pressure makes it challenging.
 

arm017

Sergeant
Jun 5, 2017
477
153
43
Texas
Yeah. Just curious how they were all impact actions. Maybe just a function of their overall volume in prs.

@5RWill yes - disqualification. Maybe it is just a function of educated ROs actually calling it. Jim see called his own gentleman’s do, but there was 4 others. You would need to check in with those individuals for the full story. But I know a few who were messing with lighter firing pin spring’s, or trying to polish on the bolt recess notch because it has such a pronounced “catch” when closing the bolt. So interfering with this can result in home gunsmithing errors. Ie: decocking, slam fires, sear engagement issues, thus negligent discharges.

Also anybody reading- please note I am not inferring an action problem with impacts- rather just pointing out odd results from the finale. Since it seems like a lot of people come down to this decision of Impact or TL3 with general consensus always defaulting to impact. Obviously it’s a solid action. But so are the tl3s.
 
Last edited:

arm017

Sergeant
Jun 5, 2017
477
153
43
Texas
My first TL3 is on it way to my FFL right now and I have an opportunity to take it out this weekend if all the parts arrive on time. However my TT Diamond wont be here till late next week. My question is, I have a TT special on my Remage with a bottom bolt release, can I stall it on the TL3 even if it has the bolt release on the trigger? I would assume I would have to operate both the action release and trigger release at the same time to get the bolt out, but it would be worth it if I could shoot this weekend.
You will just need to remove that bolt stop, And you should be good to go on your tl3
 
Last edited:

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Oct 15, 2009
4,403
563
113
27
Mississippi
Yeah. Just curious how they were all impact actions. Maybe just a function of their overall volume in prs.

@5RWill yes - disqualification. Maybe it is just a function of educated ROs actually calling it. Jim see called his own gentleman’s do, but there was 4 others. You would need to check in with those individuals for the full story. But I know a few who were messing with lighter firing pin spring’s, or trying to polish on the bolt recess notch because it has such a pronounced “catch” when closing the bolt. So interfering with this can result in home gunsmithing errors. Ie: decocking, slam fires, sear engagement issues, thus negligent discharges.

Also anybody reading- please note I am not inferring an action problem with impacts- rather just pointing out odd results from the finale. Since it seems like a lot of people come down to this decision of Impact or TL3 with general consensus seeming shocked anyone would not run impact. Obviously it’s a solid action. But so are the tl3s.
Okay that's what i was wondering i didn't really take it as NDs at first glance i was thinking something about the way they were running it or something else was causing them to get DQ'd.
 

Zack_va248

Sergeant of the Hide
Sep 22, 2018
137
26
28
Winchester, Va
Just shamelessly piling on here, I already posted pics of mine in another thread. Anyway, the rifle is a Bighorn TL3 action with the 30 MOA rail and a medium tang, a Bartlein barrel chambered in 260 REM, sitting in a KRG X-Ray chassis with a Timney Calvin Elite trigger, topped with a Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 and tipped with Thunder Beast's Ultra 7. So far she seems to be liking the ELD-Ms, now if I could just find those available somewhere.

Such a great looking rig!
 
Feb 14, 2017
707
6
18
Lubbock
Cool. Bighorn had a RBLP TL3 on the shelf yesterday so I picked that up and ordered an Exodus Light from Foundation. Trying to decide on calibers but I’m going to run a proof sendero and MTU Brux topped off with an AMG


Yea, they are actually the same barreled action but I had the genesis light first. I wanted the exedous but it wasn't in stock at core at the time. Once one came available I bought it and sold the genesis. I liked the genesis but it wasn't what I needed. I love the exedous light. It's perfect. I am thinking about going proof as well to drop a bit of weight but as well as this balances as it is currently configured it realy doesn't feel as heavy as what I would think it weighs. It's not a tank, but not as light as an EH1a obviously. The bennifits far outweigh any drawbacks I can find, that's for sure.
 
Likes: Estes640