++Bighorn TL3 Builds++

BWB

Sergeant
Mar 18, 2009
367
23
18
SD
Man, I wish I knew about the DLC coating when I ordered my second TL3. It wasn't mentioned . I guess I'll have to just have it coated. I like the way it looks. It would go perfect with the Proof carbon barrel I have sitting next to it.

Thank for sharing

Call Bighorn, they will send your action to DLC for no cost, I believe.
 
Nov 10, 2009
232
88
28
Mississippi
Man, I wish I knew about the DLC coating when I ordered my second TL3. It wasn't mentioned . I guess I'll have to just have it coated. I like the way it looks. It would go perfect with the Proof carbon barrel I have sitting next to it.

Thank for sharing

I'm having a Proof 7mm barrel spun up right now for it, dropped it off at the smith this morning. Going to be a 28 Nosler for a hunting rifle. Now I just need Manners to move my order in front of everyone elses! haha


Call Bighorn, they will send your action to DLC for no cost, I believe.
I believe they charge to have an action DLC'd, but its like $75 or something. It's not bad. But free if you order that way from the start.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
Question for TL3 owners: The instructions say to remove the extractor during headspacing because it won't cam over a hardened headspace gauge... how do I remove the extractor? Is this 100% necessary or could you kind of slip the gauge into the bolt head and use the CRF to push it into the chamber to headspace it?

And here's a few pics...



 
Nov 22, 2007
127
11
18
St. Augustine, FL
Question for TL3 owners: The instructions say to remove the extractor during headspacing because it won't cam over a hardened headspace gauge... how do I remove the extractor? Is this 100% necessary or could you kind of slip the gauge into the bolt head and use the CRF to push it into the chamber to headspace it?

And here's a few pics...




You can leave it in if you don't try to push the bolt in past the extractor with the gauge suspended in the bolt. Otherwise use a dental pick and push the detent down and you slide it outward. Be advised, the detent and spring will fly away like any other detent on an AR, so point it in a safe direction. :)
 
Apr 24, 2017
932
149
43
Hoover, Alabama
For those of yall that are running switch barrel setups what is the change in zero between 6mm/6.5mm projectiles and 223?

Good news, I talked with PVA and I should have mine in hand by May 16th.
 
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Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,653
514
113
Pacific Northwest
For those of yall that are running switch barrel setups what is the change in zero between 6mm/6.5mm projectiles and 223?
Totally depends on the barrel and how the chamber matches up. I've got some barrels within a few tenths of each other, and some barrels that are 2.5 mils off each other despite being same caliber.

My approach to keeping track of all this is to draw a little crosshairs on a piece of paper, then put a dot where the bullet will hit and mark the offset. Helps me visualize better and is easier to keep track of multiple barrels that way.
 
Apr 24, 2017
932
149
43
Hoover, Alabama
Totally depends on the barrel and how the chamber matches up. I've got some barrels within a few tenths of each other, and some barrels that are 2.5 mils off each other despite being same caliber.

My approach to keeping track of all this is to draw a little crosshairs on a piece of paper, then put a dot where the bullet will hit and mark the offset. Helps me visualize better and is easier to keep track of multiple barrels that way.
Thanks for the info and this was my fear, that it’s kinda all over the place. You are running PMIIs right? So when you switch the barrel I assume you have to reset the screws because you need more than 0.3-0.5 mils below zero?
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,653
514
113
Pacific Northwest
Yeah, I reset the zero every time I change barrels. Not a big deal. If the zero is underneath the current one, I'll just start at zero, unscrew the screws, spin the turret to the offset number, set the screws again, then dial back down to zero.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
922
240
43
38
Colorado Springs, CO
I agree with Sheldon. I think it totally just depends on the barrel. However I have not had one off by more than . 7 Mils. Here are my offset zeros:

Dasher #1 zero
223 #1. D.2/ R.2
Dasher #2 U.5/ R.7
6SLR. Re-zero'd
223 #1. 0/0 from new 6SLR barrel
223#2. D.4/L.7
308. D.5/L.4
 
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Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
Hey guys I just put together a TL3 this weekend and I am having some feeding issues. It is a SA TL3 with a 223 bolt head, sitting in a Manners mini-chassis. Everything bolted up nicely, but I can't get it to feed at all. I have a MDT polymer mag that I had feeding well in another 223 rifle, and an accurate mag and neither of them worked.

Another thing that I thought was notable, was that I couldn't even get it to feed by placing a round right on top of the magazine through the ejection port. The same type of jam shown below in the picture occurred whether I tried to feed by the mag or just single loading. It almost seems as if the extractor isn't allowing the case rim to slide up into the bolt face easily. It seems free to move with my finger but I am not sure how much resistance there should be. When I pull the bolt out and slide a case under the extractor, it really "clicks" into place and I'm wondering if maybe the extractor is a little tight causing a jam or something?

I contacted Manners and Bighorn and am waiting on some support but I know those guys had a show this weekend and are busy so I am hoping that there might be some advice you guys could offer me.

The first pic is with the bolt removed and showing the height of the cartridge when sitting in the mag. It may be a little low, but you can see the primer so I'm not sure if its low enough to be causing this kind of jam. When I push the magazine up by hand and try to feed, the bolt hits on the top of the feed lips, so it kind of seems like the mag is at the proper height. Second pic is just showing the jam, you can see that the cartridge is angled up, but not being accepted into the bolt face.


 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,653
514
113
Pacific Northwest
Is the jam from the nose of the bullet missing the entrance to the chamber and hitting the flat rear face of the barrel?

FWIW, my MDT 223 mag sits a little higher in the action and shows a tiny bit more primer. Not much difference than what you show in your picture though.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
Is the jam from the nose of the bullet missing the entrance to the chamber and hitting the flat rear face of the barrel?

FWIW, my MDT 223 mag sits a little higher in the action and shows a tiny bit more primer. Not much difference than what you show in your picture though.
I will have to take a closer look tonight, but yes, I think the nose of the bullet is missing the entrance to the chamber and jamming against the breech face of the barrel. I did slightly modify this MDT mag to work in another 223 bolt gun, and what I did was remove a little bit of the front of the feed lips to allow the cartridge to "angle up" a little more as it is pushed from the mag so this could be contributing to the issue?

I guess I would have to order another MDT mag to see if an unmodified one will still have the same issue. Still seems strange that I am unable to just single load them on top of the magazine tho.
 
Dec 21, 2009
260
58
28
30
Petersburg, WV
Something you might want to consider is an AICS 223 Bobsled, brownells is the only dealer that carries them. I’ve found it very convenient for single loading in my tikka, which was very problematic when single feeding from the magazine. While it won’t help your magazine problem it’s nice to have.
 

armada

Sergeant
Feb 4, 2006
316
4
18
49
Livermore, California,
Try looking for the thread or post having to do with 223 AICS mags. It may be this one . Some people had to make a slight mod to the magazine to get the non Accuracy Iinternational mags to feed correctly. I had some feeding issues when my son would run the bolt slowly but when I would run Accuracy International magazines no issues at all. My setup is different, I'm running an AICS stock.
I'm sure it's minor.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,653
514
113
Pacific Northwest
I will have to take a closer look tonight, but yes, I think the nose of the bullet is missing the entrance to the chamber and jamming against the breech face of the barrel. I did slightly modify this MDT mag to work in another 223 bolt gun, and what I did was remove a little bit of the front of the feed lips to allow the cartridge to "angle up" a little more as it is pushed from the mag so this could be contributing to the issue?

I guess I would have to order another MDT mag to see if an unmodified one will still have the same issue. Still seems strange that I am unable to just single load them on top of the magazine tho.
When you get a chance to look at it see if the bullet is missing the chamber high or missing low. If it's missing high then the feedlips might be a contributing factor. The next thing to look at is height of magazine relative to action. If the mag is low its more likely to send the round high, if the mag is high then it's more likely to send the round lower. At least that's what my guess is... seems like a low mag would have the round hit off the feed ramp and angle the bullet more sharply upwards. Try feeding a round super slow and watching what it does.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
Thanks for the inputs guys. I will do some more investigating when I get the chance. Maybe I will make a video showing the issue which might be more helpful than pictures.
 
Feb 21, 2017
177
1
18
North Alabama
Is there a good amount of vertical play when the mag is seated in the bottom metal? If so, load up some dummy rounds in the mag then apply slight force to the bottom of the mag to make it present the round higher in the receiver. While applying force to the bottom of the mag, run the bolt and try to cycle through several rounds. If this helps, you may need a longer mag catch.
 

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Oct 15, 2009
4,160
402
83
27
Mississippi
While i haven't used a TL3 with a 223 my friend has one and hasn't had issues. If it's picking up the round adequately i wouldn't think that it's a magazine depth issue. Which from what you're describing it seems to be picking it up out of the mag fine, just not sliding under the extractor and properly aligned with the chamber.

To eliminate the extractor issue you're thinking of do you know anyone close by that has another 223 bolt head? Or another extracor? Does this happen with any other cartridge that you have for the rifle? Or is it only 223?
 

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Oct 15, 2009
4,160
402
83
27
Mississippi
Do you happen to know if it’s a AW cut magwell or aics and would it matter either way.
It shouldn't. AW cut doesn't prohibit you from running AICS at all, it's just a matter of the mag latch controlling the mag seating depth. Prime example is my TL3 is AW cut but i run AICS mags, yet if i were to put it in my former T4A that was set up for AW mags it would run that as well.
 

Codiekfx400

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 29, 2018
365
95
28
I have a TL3 AW cut 6.5 Creedmoor and it will not function properly with magpul aics magazines. It however functions flawlessly with $30 a piece Ruger aics magazines which makes me very 😊. I had no idea what magazines work in a TL3 aw cut 223 action but would greatly appreciate any info on the matter. I have one ordered in a left hand from Bohem that should be arriving shortly.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
Thanks for all the responses everyone, I appreciate all the input.

I had some time last night to investigate a bit more last night and I was able to take a few videos, but not sure what the best method is for sharing them here?

Like R5Will is saying, I don't think it is a magazine issue because the bolt is grabbing enough meat of the cartridge to pick it up, it just isn't sliding under the extractor for some reason. After running a few test trials I determined that the cartridge is being pushed into the chamber, but it is just jamming. The bullet tip isn't missing high or low of the chamber, it is going in just fine and then it jams. The bottom of the chamber entrance is leaving a mark on the case body, so that is jam point 1, and the second jam point seems to be the back of the case head against the boltface. I should add that the same jam occurs when I single load a cartridge on top of the magazine, and that it doesn't matter what speed I run the bolt at.

I don't know anyone around with another TL3 to compare the bolt head too, and I don't have any other cartridges for this rifle.

I do have a 223 Accurate Mag, but it holds the cartridge way too low and will need a lot of modification before I can get the bolt to even pick up the round, so I have been focusing on the MDT mag I have which presents the round at seemingly the correct height. MDT mags are definitely the preferred 223 mag that I have seen. Also this TL3 is cut with the standard AI mag cutout.

I've also been in contact with Tom Manners who has been helpful and has offered to send me some longer mag catches if we can determine that it is the issue (which I don't think it is). Tom also seemed to think that there is plenty of round showing from the mag, and that shouldn't be the problem.

If I can share these videos I think it will give everyone a much clearer picture.

Edit: Google Drive with pics/vids:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kujN6RsQQz1-0Qn33km0oQNXsH6Ovqo6?usp=sharing
 

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reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
922
240
43
38
Colorado Springs, CO
I have been running 223 out of a TL3 for a while using accurate mag AICS pattern 223 magazines. I have recently started to run 300 blackout out of the same set up. I have had 0 issues. But I have been using XLR and MPA chassis. I highly suspect your issue is magazine height and how that particular mini chassis presents the magazine to the action
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
I have been running 223 out of a TL3 for a while using accurate mag AICS pattern 223 magazines. I have recently started to run 300 blackout out of the same set up. I have had 0 issues. But I have been using XLR and MPA chassis. I highly suspect your issue is magazine height and how that particular mini chassis presents the magazine to the action
Thanks for the input. I have tried "manipulating" the magazine height and angle/cant with my hand while feeding, and none of it seems to make a difference.

I put the relevant pictures and some videos in this public google drive here for anyone to take a look. One of the videos is feeding through the magazine, and the other is with the cartridge just resting on the mag. Working the bolt at different speeds had no effect.

Google Drive with pics/vids:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kujN6RsQQz1-0Qn33km0oQNXsH6Ovqo6?usp=sharing
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,653
514
113
Pacific Northwest
I put the relevant pictures and some videos in this public google drive here for anyone to take a look. One of the videos is feeding through the magazine, and the other is with the cartridge just resting on the mag. Working the bolt at different speeds had no effect.

Google Drive with pics/vids:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kujN6RsQQz1-0Qn33km0oQNXsH6Ovqo6?usp=sharing
It almost looks like the edge of the chamber is biting into the cartride and instead of sliding forward and pulling the case under the extractor it is binding up. Did your gunsmith put a champfer at the edge of the chamber?

I'm just throwing out guesses at this point but the thing I would be looking at next would be trying to make sure there wasn't a sharp edge on the chamber, and on making the extractor as easy as possible for the brass to slide underneath. If you have a barrel vise and can take the barrel off you might be able to polish up the lip of the chamber so the brass can slide more easily. Then on the extractor make sure it's got a drop of oil on it and can freely move, and that there's nothing that would impede the case from sliding underneath it.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
It almost looks like the edge of the chamber is biting into the cartride and instead of sliding forward and pulling the case under the extractor it is binding up. Did your gunsmith put a champfer at the edge of the chamber?

I'm just throwing out guesses at this point but the thing I would be looking at next would be trying to make sure there wasn't a sharp edge on the chamber, and on making the extractor as easy as possible for the brass to slide underneath. If you have a barrel vise and can take the barrel off you might be able to polish up the lip of the chamber so the brass can slide more easily. Then on the extractor make sure it's got a drop of oil on it and can freely move, and that there's nothing that would impede the case from sliding underneath it.
This is what Bighorn is saying as well. Seems like that could make sense, but I got the barrel from Greg at SPR and he specifically makes prefits for the TL3... I would think he would know to put a chamfer on the leading edge of the chamber? I am pretty sure that when I inspected the barrel before I installed it, that it had a broken edge at the chamber there. This is pretty frustrating and overwhelming; buying top tier components thinking that I should have no problem like 100s of others here, and then having to coordinate with Manners, Bighorn, SPR, etc. just to get it to feed. The whole point was avoiding gunsmith's and now I am potentially having to pull the barrel back off, and send it out to someone? Or maybe send the whole rifle to someone so that I make sure when I get it back that it will feed.

Edited to add that everyone involved (Manners, Bighorn, SPR) has been responsive and helpful so far. I know that by buying prefits and putting the rifle together myself, I take a lot of the liability and there is no one entity that is responsible for making sure everything works out. I am just frustrated is all, as I'm sure anyone who has been in a similar situation can relate.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,653
514
113
Pacific Northwest
I can understand the frustration. If it were me I'd try to clean up the leading edge of the chamber before mailing the whole thing to a gunsmith. Nothing super aggressive, just maybe something like a wooden dowel chucked up in a drill with a bit of metal polish on it. Or even by hand. A lot easier than packing up the rifle entirely.

I bet there's a champfer on it, probably just has a sharp edge to it.
 

Xander3Zero

Just a normal dude.
Aug 10, 2017
460
133
43
Rhode Island
I can understand the frustration. If it were me I'd try to clean up the leading edge of the chamber before mailing the whole thing to a gunsmith. Nothing super aggressive, just maybe something like a wooden dowel chucked up in a drill with a bit of metal polish on it. Or even by hand. A lot easier than packing up the rifle entirely.

I bet there's a champfer on it, probably just has a sharp edge to it.
I am going to wait to hear back from Greg @ SPR before I do anything. I don't know if I would really be comfortable doing much of anything to the barrel, it seems ridiculous to pay like $600+ for a barrel and then have to clean up the chamber job myself with a wooden dowel, no offense to your suggestion lol.
 
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