"Best" Semi-Auto Precision Rifle
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I have been issued MK 11's, M110's and a Larue. The Larue was hands down the best, both in reliability and accuracy. In addition, the Larue is the only gas gun I've ever shot that actually was about as forgiving as a bolt gun. Typical example average'd .75 moa with them, though some were a bit more accurate, none were really worse. Very easy to shoot from all positions.
Unfortunately, I'm told the current ones just aren't as good, though I have no personal experience with them. Mine were from before Larue started making everything in house.
I'm playing with the KAC stuff more now, and it certainly is better than my initial experience with the MK 11's. Can't say much more than that at this time, I'm still focused on bolts for now.
Unfortunately, I'm told the current ones just aren't as good, though I have no personal experience with them. Mine were from before Larue started making everything in house.
I'm playing with the KAC stuff more now, and it certainly is better than my initial experience with the MK 11's. Can't say much more than that at this time, I'm still focused on bolts for now.
NEMO Omen Match 3.0... .300 Win mag. Still breaking it in but shows promise.
Alpha Mike Foxtrot
GW1, Gothic Serpent, GWOT...somewhere in the Magic Kingdom
Remember Vietnam Veterans Day...03/29/2018...Thank you for your service and sacrifice.
Alpha Mike Foxtrot
GW1, Gothic Serpent, GWOT...somewhere in the Magic Kingdom
Remember Vietnam Veterans Day...03/29/2018...Thank you for your service and sacrifice.
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This works well for me. SA M1A Super Match in McMillan USMC. Heavy but accurate and reliable plus "old school" cool. Still sending bad guys to hell in the Box.
Alpha Mike Foxtrot
GW1, Gothic Serpent, GWOT...somewhere in the Magic Kingdom.
" This my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine..."
Alpha Mike Foxtrot
GW1, Gothic Serpent, GWOT...somewhere in the Magic Kingdom.
" This my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine..."
These are awesome but I’d imagine it’s easy to get carried away and run that barrel a little hot. Possibly ruin it.
One I haven't seen mentioned here is the APF 6.5 Creed Target. I have this same rifle in a 6 Creed and it's an absolute dream, this rifle is truly hard to beat for the money!
http://www.apfarmory.com/6-5-creedmoor-target/
http://www.apfarmory.com/6-5-creedmoor-target/
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I am searching and researching the .260 gas guns for purchase. This is a great thread for me, thanks again.
I recently saw a F&D and most of the reviews have been very positive except for a long wait time. I have not heard it mentioned here nor have I ever seen a used one for sale.
Has anyone here had any experience with one? If so, whaddaya think??
Thanks,
Steve
I recently saw a F&D and most of the reviews have been very positive except for a long wait time. I have not heard it mentioned here nor have I ever seen a used one for sale.
Has anyone here had any experience with one? If so, whaddaya think??
Thanks,
Steve
I have 2 F&D rifles. A 6.5 CM and 338 LM. They are both great shooters and no issue with either as far as operation etc. Great company to deal with! I put 3 shots in a Dime at 200 yards with the 6.5 and have the target to prove it. It amazed even me! I know EuroOptic has a couple for sale at their site. In fact, they have a 260 right now.
Thanks Jeff,
I think that is where I saw it, will have to go back and look. Thinking they must not be bad, people wait a long time for them and never have seen one used for sale. They are also not far for me if there was ever a reason to go to the manufacturer.
Thanks for the review.
Man 338! I saw that on their website. Made me rethink the 260. I have the room to go beyond 1200 and will Saturday. My 260 and 300wm is not having any trouble hitting the center of a silhouette so far. Learning wind is the new learning curve! Sure would be fun to have the 338.. I have never reloaded for the 338, is it like the 50bmg where it is exponentially more expensive to shoot?
Thanks,
Steve
I think that is where I saw it, will have to go back and look. Thinking they must not be bad, people wait a long time for them and never have seen one used for sale. They are also not far for me if there was ever a reason to go to the manufacturer.
Thanks for the review.
Man 338! I saw that on their website. Made me rethink the 260. I have the room to go beyond 1200 and will Saturday. My 260 and 300wm is not having any trouble hitting the center of a silhouette so far. Learning wind is the new learning curve! Sure would be fun to have the 338.. I have never reloaded for the 338, is it like the 50bmg where it is exponentially more expensive to shoot?
Thanks,
Steve
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Wilson, JP, Seekins, in no particular order
We stock the Wilsons and JP's, Seekins are incoming...
We've tried them all at length.....
We stock the Wilsons and JP's, Seekins are incoming...
We've tried them all at length.....
Yeah lots of self discipline required. Mild recoil makes it tougher. The biggest reason I didn't go with Watchmen...Carbon barrels aren't cheap. Hope to get 2K out of this one depending on final load recipe.
Honestly it's quite a shame the LMT MWS hasn't been mentioned in this thread. You can find used ones with chromed lined .308 barrels (10k+ bbl life) for less than $2200. Then you buy a 6.5cm barrel for $500 and you have what is probably the most advanced (and easily the most reliable) AR10 on the market.
When you compare the overall quality of a pieced together rifle vs a top tier AR10 (LMT,Knights,Larue) the difference is extremely noticeable when it comes to fit & finish.
When you compare the overall quality of a pieced together rifle vs a top tier AR10 (LMT,Knights,Larue) the difference is extremely noticeable when it comes to fit & finish.
I’ve been debating on whether or not to buy this rifle for a while now, there’s just not a lot of information out their on it. I had the RRA 6.5 ordered, but came across the APF. I’m leaning towards it just so I don’t have to be fumbling back and forth between DPMS mags and the FAL mags the RRA would take. I’ve talked to the owners of the company and they seem like they’ve got it together. From what little I’ve seen, shooters are reporting 3/4” MOA with factory ammo. What types of groups are you getting? Does it seem like a quality built rifle? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
If you want to go the custom route contact Wes Grant over at MSTN. He will be happy to chat with you about what you want and the intended purpose the rifle. He makes some amazingly smooth and accurate rifles, large frame and small frame. He will be happy to build you whatever you want.
I nominate the FN Scar 17 for short strings of fire. I held under .4Moa out to 660 yards for three shot groups while getting range dope one day. Skinny barrel and slow speed keep it out of long range and longer strings of fire. Awesome hunting rifle though.
I wouldn't overlook the Savage MSR 10 LR. I bought one in a 6.5 CM, and while I'm still breaking it in, it is looking to kick ass. Best trigger I've had on an AR. Floated handguard around the barrel nut and barrel, superb adjustable gas block, side charging handle, machined gas key into bolt carrier, and a extra long gas system. It feels like I'm shooting a bolt gun. Feature set is fantastic regardless of price. Buds guns have them dirt cheap. While I'm still breaking it in (shoot,clean,shoot,clean), I've taken a few 3-4 shot strings with .45-.65 groups with factory Hornady match 140 eld's. Even if I had to buy a custom barrel, this rifles feature set is hard to beat. Hopefully it'll keep on improving as it gets broken in and eventually I reload for it.
I wouldn't overlook the Savage MSR 10 LR. I bought one in a 6.5 CM, and while I'm still breaking it in, it is looking to kick ass. Best trigger I've had on an AR. Floated handguard around the barrel nut and barrel, superb adjustable gas block, side charging handle, machined gas key into bolt carrier, and a extra long gas system. It feels like I'm shooting a bolt gun. Feature set is fantastic regardless of price. Buds guns have them dirt cheap. While I'm still breaking it in (shoot,clean,shoot,clean), I've taken a few 3-4 shot strings with .45-.65 groups with factory Hornady match 140 eld's. Even if I had to buy a custom barrel, this rifles feature set is hard to beat. Hopefully it'll keep on improving as it gets broken in and eventually I reload for it.
It is funny that we keep hearing about great groups with scars, but never see statistically significant posts....ever.
The answer is building your own AR10 with a Bartlein or similar quality barrel, or having a good smith build it for you. Or if you have to just buy a JP, KAC, LMT, GAP, etc.
The answer is building your own AR10 with a Bartlein or similar quality barrel, or having a good smith build it for you. Or if you have to just buy a JP, KAC, LMT, GAP, etc.
My “Best" Semi-Auto Precision Rifle
NEMO 308 to 600 yards
VOLQUARTSEN 22WMR to 200 yards or more
EraThr3 223/556 300~400 yards or more
NEMO 308 to 600 yards
VOLQUARTSEN 22WMR to 200 yards or more
EraThr3 223/556 300~400 yards or more
I custom built mine and I couldn't be happier. It also allowed me to be patient and shop deals so I built it for a pretty good price.
Mega Arms Nickel Boron receiver set
Magpul PRS Gen 2 Stock
Ergo Delux grip
Radian Talon Ambi Safety
Radian Raptor Charging Handle
SLR Rifleworks Solo Series MLOCK 14"
SLR Rifleworks Sentry 9 Setscrew Gas Block
Geissele High Speed National Match DMR Trigger
JP Silent Capture Spring
JP FMOS Bolt Carrier Group (If doing it again I would probably go for the LMOS)
JP 22" Stainless Barrel with JP Enhanced Bolt
The JP Barrels don't come dimpled for the gas blocks. So if you decide to custom build and go with JP I would see if they would dimple the barrel for you. The place I took my barrel to to get dimpled put the gas block on backwards when they did the measuring for the dimpling. When I installed the gas block it was covering up the port for the gas block and causing it to short stroke. Once I took it back and fought with the damn gun smith about what he did wrong even though it was plain as day he finally fixed it like I told him to and it has run perfectly ever since.
Still pisses me off that he did that though the stupid idiot.
Mega Arms Nickel Boron receiver set
Magpul PRS Gen 2 Stock
Ergo Delux grip
Radian Talon Ambi Safety
Radian Raptor Charging Handle
SLR Rifleworks Solo Series MLOCK 14"
SLR Rifleworks Sentry 9 Setscrew Gas Block
Geissele High Speed National Match DMR Trigger
JP Silent Capture Spring
JP FMOS Bolt Carrier Group (If doing it again I would probably go for the LMOS)
JP 22" Stainless Barrel with JP Enhanced Bolt
The JP Barrels don't come dimpled for the gas blocks. So if you decide to custom build and go with JP I would see if they would dimple the barrel for you. The place I took my barrel to to get dimpled put the gas block on backwards when they did the measuring for the dimpling. When I installed the gas block it was covering up the port for the gas block and causing it to short stroke. Once I took it back and fought with the damn gun smith about what he did wrong even though it was plain as day he finally fixed it like I told him to and it has run perfectly ever since.
Still pisses me off that he did that though the stupid idiot.
I'll be the outlier and recommend an HK MR762 or SCAR 17S. Yes, you will have to replace the triggers (that rifles in this price range should already have installed) but they are certainly sub-MOA performers, very clean running rigs, and will hold their value long term.
I have been incredibly happy with my GA Precision GAP-10. Mine is a 22” Bartlein barrel and the Geiselle SSA-E trigger. I chose the 6.5CM. Topped of with a S&B 3-20 in a Spuhr mount. I shoot the Hornady 147 ELD-M factory ammo, and have had great luck with the 140s as well. Just yesterday, 04/15/18 I was having great success at 1200yds. Wind was definitely blowing, but I was also pretty consistent at 1600yds. Wind being the factor (as always) much more than any deficit in accuracy. Rifle has shot many .5 moa groups, and anymore, I’m not as surprised by them as I used to be. My GAP-10 can hold it’s own against my bolt gun. I will say that I do have quite a bit of time behind gassers, as I get to shoot several times a week, so I have the technique down.
The GA Precision guns are not inexpensive, but the gun, as a system, shoots fantastic. I could not be happier. I’m sure I could have saved some money building it myself, as I have built several sub minute AR-15’s, but I read time and time again about AR-10’s not being the same beast as the 15’s. Read many stories about “help me diagnose my issue with my AR-10”. I decided to play it safe and go with a known option. I’m very happy with the rifle.
The GA Precision guns are not inexpensive, but the gun, as a system, shoots fantastic. I could not be happier. I’m sure I could have saved some money building it myself, as I have built several sub minute AR-15’s, but I read time and time again about AR-10’s not being the same beast as the 15’s. Read many stories about “help me diagnose my issue with my AR-10”. I decided to play it safe and go with a known option. I’m very happy with the rifle.
I run a stock Daniel Defense DD5V1 (16" barrel) and shoot sub moa with quality match ammo and my handloading. Functioned like gold right out of the box
Somebody say Knight's? They make a fine rifle indeed and this, not the LMT, is the most advanced AR platform to date. It's almost purely proprietary from buttstock to muzzle. Atlas bipod, Badger 1 piece mount, USO LR17, PEQ2, KAC PVS30 and KAC QDC suppressor top it off. Very well designed and executed, I love this rifle.Have JP and Knights, either one will put a smile on my face
But the most accurate is the Satern barreled 6.5G that I built. .33MOA with the right load, ~1MOA with everything else. No pictures of that one handy but it looks like the SR25 above except small frame with a UBR stock.
I do. I was considering one, I'd talked to FN directly about it. I'd already lost out on a group by for the last series of SR25's, the URX3's w/dimpled barrels. Just never heard back from the guy. I didn't wanna build it, I build small frames but didn't wanna invest in or deal with fitting one together. GAP wouldn't do what I wanted, Larue wanted to put me on a long list, HK just wanted too much for a rifle that was just too different from the G28, and FN promised they'd be out by Christmas. This was 2015 or 2016. Turns out it's a what, 1.5MOA rifle? So yeah, I'm glad I didn't wait on it. I still think it looks cool, but it's really just a high priced SDM rifle IMO. I'd probably get the HK first, which is I think is another higher priced and less accurate rifle than the one it's replacing. But still nice.
I forget how I was gonna order it, if FN was gonna set me up with an account or what. I ended up going to KAC and getting the one above, with the URX4, which is nice and it grows on you and I've actually used those on two builds now. Got a killer deal on everything and it's an amazing rifle. Do wish the MAMS brake and the adj. fixed stock were options though. It was also designed by the master and it's had ~30 years to evolve.
My experience is with the Stag Model 6 Super Varminter, which has been superceded this Summer by the Stag 15 Varminter ($1084.99 on sale for $815), and is excellent. Except for the substitution with the Magpul stock, the 15 Varminter is the identical rifle. I've had the 6 for going on 8 years, and for a factory varmint rifle, it's very accurate ad very reliable. I saw one in the LGS, handled it, and immediately ordered one after seeing several targets fired at 100yd with PPU 69gr Target. Love it and use the lower as a foundation for 3 other Uppers. It is a very good rifle with 75gr bullets, and has been shot in National MR 600 F T/R comp.
Following that comp, I gave mine to our Granddaughter, and bought the kit version as a replacement. It came with the same 24" 1:8" Stainless (very possibly a McGowan) bull barreled upper completely assembled, and everything for the lower (including a decent 2-stage drop-in trigger assembly) without the stripped receiver. My first ever lower build, it went together in under a half hour and no issues then or at the range.
The kit is roughly $810, and the stripped lower is around $85. The primary advantage to going this way is that you get a fully compatible and tested setup at builder pricing. It will work as advertised and have manufacturer support.
When I built mine, all I replaced was a substitution with a Luth AR MBA-1 fully adjustable stock, and I added a BAD Lever. In all ways, it serves well, and is also a good lower to put other uppers onto. No issues with any other Upper (CMMG 16 Bull Wasp, AR Stoner lightweight 16", and a Franken-Upper based around a Stag 3G 16" Barrel) so far.
I think it's a great rifle at a good price, and is not full of the uncertainties and teething issues one could encounter when doing a Franken-AR.
Greg
Following that comp, I gave mine to our Granddaughter, and bought the kit version as a replacement. It came with the same 24" 1:8" Stainless (very possibly a McGowan) bull barreled upper completely assembled, and everything for the lower (including a decent 2-stage drop-in trigger assembly) without the stripped receiver. My first ever lower build, it went together in under a half hour and no issues then or at the range.
The kit is roughly $810, and the stripped lower is around $85. The primary advantage to going this way is that you get a fully compatible and tested setup at builder pricing. It will work as advertised and have manufacturer support.
When I built mine, all I replaced was a substitution with a Luth AR MBA-1 fully adjustable stock, and I added a BAD Lever. In all ways, it serves well, and is also a good lower to put other uppers onto. No issues with any other Upper (CMMG 16 Bull Wasp, AR Stoner lightweight 16", and a Franken-Upper based around a Stag 3G 16" Barrel) so far.
I think it's a great rifle at a good price, and is not full of the uncertainties and teething issues one could encounter when doing a Franken-AR.
Greg
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It's been a long while since I've looked at this thread. All the shooting I've done with the APF 6 Creed has proven to be 1/2-3/4 MOA from 100 out to 1150 yards when the wind isn't an issue.
If I was looking to have a custom AR10 or 15 rifle built, I’d go MSTN. Next in line would be JP. I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet, but I’ve always liked the Barnes Precision Machine rifles too...just another option.
I went full custom on my AR10 (currently for sale) and its a fantastic rifle. Light recoil impulse, great shot follow. It looks amazing and holds sub moa groups
Production AR10s are reliable because they a built and tested by a manufacturer.
People usually run into a lot of problems when the try to build a *cheap* custom AR10.
If you do decide to build one (or buy mine
) dont be a penny pincher. Buy the expensive gas block, BCG and JP SCS with extra springs. These options will allow you to “tune” the cycling of the rifle for reliability and repeatability.
Production AR10s are reliable because they a built and tested by a manufacturer.
People usually run into a lot of problems when the try to build a *cheap* custom AR10.
If you do decide to build one (or buy mine
) dont be a penny pincher. Buy the expensive gas block, BCG and JP SCS with extra springs. These options will allow you to “tune” the cycling of the rifle for reliability and repeatability.Glad to finally see POF mentioned, particularly if you want a piston gun. I own a POF 415 and a POF 308 and both are shooters. Can they hang with a GAP or JP? Probably not. But they do challenge the notion that you can't get good accuracy out of a piston gun.
I also think RRA is often overlooked. I don't own one in .308, but my RRA .223 upper shoots around 1 MOA with factory ammo and me behind the trigger. I suspect a more talented trigger puller could shave another .25 MOA off of that.
I also think RRA is often overlooked. I don't own one in .308, but my RRA .223 upper shoots around 1 MOA with factory ammo and me behind the trigger. I suspect a more talented trigger puller could shave another .25 MOA off of that.
Iv'e had good luck with my Seekins SP-10 in .308. Does great with the Federal Gold Match 168's
Have a custom built M-14 Crazy Horse with some additional National Match mods like a welded gas cylinder, bedded, etc. I consider it a .625 MOA rifle and a joy to shoot. Its one heavy pig though.