Are our Precision Rifles the new AR, complete with Ninja reviews?

Diver160651

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#1
I like ARs and the like, but I also don’t like a lot of the wantabe operator stuff with cheap ass crap screwed everywhere ~

But is Precision Rifle suffering from too much popularity right now and going to end up with many of the shooters just like the mall ninjas seen in the AR market ?

To me, so much is wrong with how this reviewer set up the gun, the tripod use and how they are shooting off the bipod;
yet they review it like they have 1/2 a clue..

It is a disturbing trend; not the gun, but the lack of knowledge displayed by this very popular podcaster trying to make a living as a gun expert.


Edited to add: The only place the gun is set up normally is in the one picture the mfg provided. The creative editing shows a tiny tripod with the center column up in a pig, then shows a .2moa group. So f’ng ridicules to act like that’s how the group was shot.

Tactical Rifles ~ playbook video.. now where is that @Lowlight parody video?
 
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TheGerman

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#4
You're about 5 years too late.

The amount of tactical sniper ninjas around now is huge. Basically everyone has a 6.5CM or 308 with the impression that they are going to create some 'pink mist' at 900 yards if anything ever happened. Just take a stroll in the precision rifle section of ARF.

In reality, they're mostly all overweight, have shot somewhere around 50 rounds so far in their ninja career, spend most of their disposable income on the latest and greatest tactical bullshit gear and have no idea that the engagement range in their AO is probably going to be somewhere around 150 yards because they have to drive 45 minutes each way to get to the range/an area that is actually large enough for them to shoot past 500 yards; which they never do because those tiny 100 yard groups, yo.

ETA - Holy shit, just watch the video. John Patton would have a fucking fat body aneurysm if he had to ruck his bolt gun, carbine and shooting gear up a flight of steps. He's also putting those max load claims on tripods to the fucking test. Look at the tactical fobbit salad shooting at 3:10.
 

AIAW

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#6
One should be gratified to be able to detect said ass-hattery and intelligently determine if the information conveyed is useless or not. If over 40 percent of the video is about "looks" and "what your friends will think", then it's trash. Very few Youtube channels that I trust for accurate information/reviews.

If it's on Youtube, there is a very high chance that it is useless, click-baited, mall cop bullshit. Fancy video editing will reel a lot of people in.
 

AIAW

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#8
To add; it really is a skill! Always has been, but even more so these days with the advent of the Internet, social media, etc.

If you have the skills to detect bullshit, decipher "creative marketing" and call people out on false information you are part of the minority these days. So much feel good material out there just to satisfy the masses.

This all - truly a life skill.
 

Lonestar1027

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#9
Diver,
I had a chance to handle this rifle at SHOT. I waited in line for several minutes, cycled the bolt 3-4 times (it got bound up and felt like shit on each cycle), tried out the trigger and then walked away. Hammer forged barrel and a generic action that doesn't feel great for $2200? Nah, I'll take the John Hancock 10 times out of 10 before I recommend one of these.
 

Diver160651

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#10
Diver,
I had a chance to handle this rifle at SHOT. I waited in line for several minutes, cycled the bolt 3-4 times (it got bound up and felt like shit on each cycle), tried out the trigger and then walked away. Hammer forged barrel and a generic action that doesn't feel great for $2200? Nah, I'll take the John Hancock 10 times out of 10 before I recommend one of these.
Ya, but it shoots .2moa off a cheap ass tripod with poor fundamentals and a center column raised — ;)

Now that it is in your backyard, will you be back from your tasks in time to shoot the Hide Cup in June?
 

Snuby642

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#14
All you have to do is get a 6.5 a 5x20 a box of 147 and you can be an overnight ninja.

Was at the range last week relaxing with my 10/22, miffed at my 1 inch group trying to figure out cold barrel / ammo.

2 guys with new 6.5 bolt guns blazing away. Thier targets looked like a shot gun pattern board. The ro was spotting for them with the big eye.
I didn't say nada.

One of them saw my target and said nice group. I told him thanks but the groups were not good.

Barely held an inch at best.
Had to explain 50yd moa they were at 50yd as well.
Spotter was calling moa they had mil and explained distance being 1/2 equals 0.18 nevermind any further lessons.

A 22 and brick of ammo would go a long way for a beginning.

A 4000$ rig like they both had would make my day. Lol
 

MosesTheTank

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#18
Bits like that video are always difficult to watch. Like most YouTubers and Instagramers John Patton appeals to the ignorant (which he certainly is), and measures his value in likes and subscribers. I don't think he is dumb, but he is rendered useless to anything worthwhile because of his need for and pursuit of the next thumbs-up to fill his soul. It appears he spends his substantial spare time sitting on the couch while inhaling untold gallons of ice cream to help satisfy a vacancy left by poor parenting and the absence of toxic masculinity.

On the positive side he is not a meth head with a gun habit. And I appreciate that.

But is he bad for the sport? I am undecided. It is a rare thing for me to see mall ninjas at a 3G, and many of them only show up once. While they are sad to watch the only real concern is muzzle direction. As demographics go there is another group I would forever banish from the range before mall ninjas.

Will the lipid laden cellar dwellers take their chances in the physical world and make their way to PRS matches? I have my doubts.

It seems that somewhere in a basement subterranean armory near you precision rifles have begun to appear next to game controllers, and are adorned with Doritos crumbs and tactical accessories. Beyond the digital dust of YouTube I do not expect to be seeing them anywhere I go.
 

MosesTheTank

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#19

@Diver160651 I just puked a little in my mouth.
Again, just sad. I bet he is a decent kid. The video ends with him looking at the camera for affirmation. Not making excuses for him, but I think I'm looking at a 20-something with the arms of a 10 year old and the confidence of an orphaned male raised by a nunnery of aspiring Nurse Ratcheds.

This is exactly the sort of person that needs rescuing, assuming he's not beyond repair.
 

Rust

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#20
The second video looks like he is trying to copy Scandinavian Stangskyting where typically 16 rounds are fired in a 25 second time limit typically using 6.5 X 55 Swede in a Sauer 200 STR bolt rifle. That's done changing 5 round mags during the string.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ifle-competition-stangskyting-in-scandinavia/

As for our chubby friend in the first video, I see far worse mall ninjas at the range. Nothing like someone blowing through four thirty round mags in an AR as fast as they can pull the trigger thinking they are Jerry Miculek. On the other hand they do tend to leave the brass laying on the ground for me.

Price wise? No comment.
 

myronman3

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#22
there have always been dumbasses around whenever i have gone to shoot. every single time.

they want to support the folks making the equipment, buy ammo, and leave brass.....i am ok with that.

hell, i might even score a nice rifle someday when they get kicked out of the basement into the real world.
 

Diver160651

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#23
This from our hide yesterday:

“Best Bolt-Action Tactical Sniper Rifle for the money?

Im looking for a tactical sniper rifle that is
1. Accurate
2. Reliable
3. Lightweight
4. Ergonomic
5. Chambered in a long range caliber (Ideally not 308, Bigger)
6. Good Value (not above 5k)”

So what’s he asking for and why? A battle proven AI 338 with pencil barrel Tikka T3 weight at an RPR price?

Reguardless, it is not as bad because he is probably not an influencer or making a living answering questions via his podcasts like Patton. So I tend to be ok with people not understanding or pretending to be cool..

It is when they present themselves as, “Sniper Trainers”, or other types of experts passing on stupidity.... That just seems so lame.

It used to be a couple of guys in this category, but it seems to really be spreading lately. My guess is the AR market after the boom has softened up and the chaff is making its way to Precision Rifle. 2019 I bet will be a turning point.
 
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pmclaine

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#25
Sure "tools" are everywhere but keep in mind a "tool" invested in our hobby is politically a friend.

Lots of new shooters were created during the Obama years.

Rather than be annoyed and dampen their enthusiasm try to educate and motivate their interest.
 

Diver160651

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#26
Sure "tools" are everywhere but keep in mind a "tool" invested in our hobby is politically a friend.

Lots of new shooters were created during the Obama years.

Rather than be annoyed and dampen their enthusiasm try to educate and motivate their interest.

Again- not bashing on the individual “sniper wanta be” that was my point..

It is the guys offering training, acting like experts they can be bad for our sport. Maybe not CNN bad, but not good as people end up buying alkinds of Dickey.

CE628489-D7E7-490A-B4CE-58ECB952C33E.jpeg

Oh and drawing the wrong kind of attention and wrong perception to PR.. hopefully not getting the dems to chase bolt Rifles too.
 
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Yellowfever440

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#28
Maybe I'm shooting wrong or it isn't a big deal and just how people are comfortable. This is the 4th or 5th video I've watched where the shooter doesnt wrap their trigger hand thumb around the stock. Do people actually do that and it helps with accuracy or what?
 

JFComfort

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#31
Sure "tools" are everywhere but keep in mind a "tool" invested in our hobby is politically a friend.

Lots of new shooters were created during the Obama years.

Rather than be annoyed and dampen their enthusiasm try to educate and motivate their interest.
That’s exactly who I believe the YouTube channel appeals to, new gun enthusiasts created during the Obama admin.
 

Blue Sky Country

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#32
you DO realize they want your bolt gun every bit as bad as the ARs, yes? the AR is just the first step in their plan. surely you know this.
Very true, and I think deep down, the statists fear the precision bolt rifles and the hunters / comp. shooters that use them more than most of the AR crowd. They are just mildly inconvenienced by spray and pray ninjas. Folks that can hit what they are aiming at with almost every shot? And doing it from really far away? That is a would-be tyrant's absolute worst nightmare.
 

BR7.62

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#34
I think it comes from big egos.
Think every body cares what they have to say about a topic they think they're an expert on.
Any dildo with a camera and an internet connection can post their b.s. on YouTube.
Sitting in their bedroom making an unboxing video giving a review before they've had it to the range.
Sucks wading through all that crap to find anything decent.
 

Former0302

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#37
Beyond just the weekend commandos adopting them, the bigger concern is that like AR's they will be targeted as being "too dangerous for civilian use." Only the military and law enforcement should have "high caliber" firearms capable of hitting targets beyond "whatever range they feel is scary."

I mean, nobody needs to hit a deer at "whatever range is scary sounding."

The more mall ninjas that spend money on tricking out their stock Remington 700 VTR and posting it to their Instagram account, the faster this happens.
 

Diver160651

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Beyond just the weekend commandos adopting them, the bigger concern is that like AR's they will be targeted as being "too dangerous for civilian use." Only the military and law enforcement should have "high caliber" firearms capable of hitting targets beyond "whatever range they feel is scary."

I mean, nobody needs to hit a deer at "whatever range is scary sounding."

The more mall ninjas that spend money on tricking out their stock Remington 700 VTR and posting it to their Instagram account, the faster this happens.
Yep, the rhetoric they use on social media is the danger. Especially if they use Facebook, YouTube and Instagram.

Simo Hayha did a number with great fieldcraft with an iron sighted hunting rifle, under pressure.

We have a lot of seasoned and trained up guys now shooting in civi rifle comps, along with other very accomplished shooters. While many promote themselves on social media, it seems they do so mostly in a respectful way staying in the precision rifle lane and away from the the rhetoric of scary ego driven words that will be our undoing.

Then there are some of the shits running their mouth on social media, the more they do the sooner Texas will have call to action from the house and senate to have only have brake action single feed hunting rifles. Maybe, I am being dramatic, Oh well.

I'm not against free speech, but words can be more dangerous than a gun~ damn if some of these idiots collective BS, doesn’t fuck it up for guys shooting PRS/NRL, field matches and long range hunters, all the way to the guy who goes the range once a year with a precision rifle.

Sorry for my rant
 
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Fig

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#39
I watched the OP video, and to me it just looked like a paid-for DD commercial for a mass audience. This “community” (tactical steel, LR, ELR) is tiny. It’s a neisch market. DD is not trying to be AI. They’re making just what he said, a very nice entry level rifle (which I’m sure is overpriced because it says DD on the barrel), that will probably stay at about what you pay for it if you ever want to get rid of it and club up. Much more so than an Rem 700, or RPR, etc. I’m sure they want to sell thousands or tens of thousands of them. So, I think the infomercial is probably what they ordered up, and not directed at all.

I really only talk about this shit here or at a match. The odds you’ll run into someone who even knows about scopes, much less rifles is about nil. They want to sell guns, and in that respect, for the people this is directed at, it doesn’t move my meter. It’s just a generic YouTube commercial for DDs new bolt gun.

If these start showing up and winning at matches I’ll eat my hat.
 
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TheGerman

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#40
Hi,

Well I will see that review and raise you a "sniper school"...

https://ballisticxlr.com/sniperschool/

Sincerely,
Theis
@THEIS

lol what the fuck.

Ok, so I scrolled down to Semester 4 just for fun. I'm under the impression that for the 10 'sessions' that are going to get some long winded 'expert' explanation, I could do the same series, well....right now.


Semester 4: Taking the Shot


Sniper 401 – Prone Out: You're not going to be in a position very often that allows lanes of fire and observation from prone. Don't get used to it. Learn to shoot off a fucking tripod and don't bitch about having to bring one because it weighs a few pounds. Plus, why aren't you using the terrain to get closer to the engagement area anyways, fatty?

Sniper 402 – ID Your Target: The guy with the brown towel on his head digging a hole next to the MSR with that shovel? Spotter: Affirmative. ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: You have ID'd your fucking target.

Sniper 403 – Range Me: Stop doing math while shooting. Bring a fucking printed out data card accompanied with a MIL based 'cheat sheet' of what you're shooting at. For people, simply divide 2000 by how many MILS they take up for a rough and dirty range because that's all you deserve for not coming prepared to fucking shooting at shit.

Sniper 404 – Sweating The Small Stuff: Misses are from you either being a complete fobbit faggot noob whose best use is standing guard at the chow hall to tell me my pants are too fucking dirty to go in, or from many small things that add up to be the miss. But mostly because your frail ass can't figure out what the fucking wind is doing.

Sniper 405 – Dial This & Hold That: Dial elevation. Don't forget to fucking zero your turret each time. Hold wind, assuming you have a fucking FFP reticle and know the subtensions. Otherwise just dial it all and be slow or whatever. This isn't PRS douche fest so honestly, whatever. And stop being fucking fat.

Sniper 406 – Take The Shot: Pull the fucking trigger you fucking muppet.

Sniper 407 – Calling The Shot: Did the shot go where you intended it to go? If not, why? Fobbit.

Sniper 408 – Observe The Shot: Use a spotter with a MIL based subtension reticle. Quickly bracket a target with it; for people its not that easy but figure it out. When you are observing your target, bring your magnification to whatever the fuck you want but know your FOV will shrink so don't be that 60x 'I lost the guy' faggot 2 seconds before I'm about to shoot. Also, crank your focus ring to focus on the terrain roughly 70% of the way to target to pick up mirage and trace. Tell me what the fuck happens after I shoot and it better be in something relating to the fucking reticle not some '3 feet to the left' faggotry.

Sniper 409 – Battle Damage Assessment: LOL seriously? Did you fucking hit the target or not? Why not just do a fucking ACE report after each magazine?

Sniper 410 – Soup To Nuts: The Taking of a Long Range Shot: Didn't we already fucking go over this? And why are you obsessed with long shots? You can get to within almost any target by utilizing the terrain and identifying a better FFP and egress routes. Stop making shit harder than it fucking needs to be. Fuck.


Done. 3 minutes. Do I get my sniper badge? I'd like to buy the guy in the video (and these sniper school people) a beer sometime and explain to them how the world really works.
 
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TheGerman

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#43
Hi,

LOLOL @TheGerman

What would you expect, lol... https://ballisticxlr.com/about/

Sincerely,
Theis

YES! A week of training!

From the bio:

"Rex didn’t know the first thing about running a business especially a firearms training school and, according to Rex, he didn’t have “time off” to learn how to run a gun training school so he sent me to James Yeager’s Tactical Response along with Kacie Day, Lou McCoy and John Vauxhall to take a pistol class and firearms instructor training at Tactical Response. Kacie is a wonderful girl but she is not and should never be confused with a gun trainer. She’s a BEGINNER student and won’t be anything but a student for a decade. Lou is an amazing friend and a hell of a guy but he’s not even really a shooter beyond casual. John was there obviously as a favor to Rex and I can’t figure out why because he 100% did not belong there and didn’t seem to want to be there at all. Having those 3 children there only quadrupled the work I had to do since I had to get them up to speed enough to pass and do my job of passing. Anyway, we all completed the pistol class and after a week of instructor training we had graduated. James doesn’t graduate everyone in the class. You really have to earn it. I take pride in getting 3 newbies through their first gun class and a gun instructor class from someone as harsh as James Yeager. That was a challenge.

After Tactical Response, Rex had me write the curriculum and moment-to-moment schedule for his live fire classes after Paul McCoy had failed to deliver a usable data set. I wrote, edited, and taught that curriculum at the first 3 live fire events as well as serving as the ballistics instructor and subject matter expert for the first 3 seminars. My curriculum was not only successful but universally loved by the students for its rigor. When I train you, we’re not rehearsing. You’re learning something new. It’s going to be HARD. If it wasn’t you could teach yourself.

TiborasaurusRex (Matthew Tibor) and I parted ways in 2018 and after a brief bit of legal wrangling have come to an agreement."
 
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AIAW

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#44
The thing to look for is hypocrisy. Instructor says square up behind the rifle but then they set a bad example by not doing so. Instructor says keep both eyes open then commences squinting the non-dominate eye in demonstration. Typical classroom bullshit; words and thoughts not practiced. A lot of these guys are just regurgitating what they read without any practical field experience of said material. I'm no self-proclaimed "expert" myself - but I have a shit-ton of common sense.

That is one thing that I like about Frank's videos. You won't find one video (even his early ones) where he's done something back then that he wouldn't preach today. Not like body positioning or the human skeleton has changed since then. Perhaps a few differences to be accounted for with stocks and chassis systems, but the fundamentals still apply.

Speaking of fundamentals, this is where people majorly fail (on Youtube almost every 'shrill' video you will see this). It takes work and people are generally lazy. You get people that think a $10K rifle is going to "make up" the difference. I see guys all the time with very nice rigs shoot like ass because they brought a high-end kit but get behind it all strange. Whatever. Enjoy engraving those bad habits over time.
 

deersniper

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#45
Again- not bashing on the individual “sniper wanta be” that was my point..

It is the guys offering training, acting like experts they can be bad for our sport. Maybe not CNN bad, but not good as people end up buying alkinds of Dickey.


Oh and drawing the wrong kind of attention and wrong perception to PR.. hopefully not getting the dems to chase bolt Rifles too.
Oh hopefully the dems come after bolt rifles hot and heavy. Someone tell them shotguns are machine guns that shoot 18 rounds per trigger pull. Get the democrats to try and ban shotguns and bolt guns.

Maybe that will reduce the dumbass fudds that vote commie and also throw semis under the bus at the first opportunity.
 

deersniper

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#46
Beyond just the weekend commandos adopting them, the bigger concern is that like AR's they will be targeted as being "too dangerous for civilian use." Only the military and law enforcement should have "high caliber" firearms capable of hitting targets beyond "whatever range they feel is scary."

I mean, nobody needs to hit a deer at "whatever range is scary sounding."

The more mall ninjas that spend money on tricking out their stock Remington 700 VTR and posting it to their Instagram account, the faster this happens.
Wrong

The more people that have guns the less they will be able push their bs.
An Ar and a .50 for every household would be a major roadblock for the commies.

Going after bolt guns would be great for our side.
 

Lowlight

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#47
Lots to read here,

But from the first post, walking around SHOT, all you heard was people talking about Precision Rifle the movement and growth. They want to ruin it by grabbing all they can ala the Magazine Shortages. Companies and people with no business in PR were on and on about it.

Fortune favors the bold and guys are going bold and convincing not just people but companies they are the influencer of choice. They are asking for real dollars for minor impact. You hear about guys wanting and getting 5k for a podcast with less than 4000 downloads to "talk" about products. Others are working in Profit Sharing models to get paid beyond the talk, etc it's crazy.

I used to think I was a bit expensive until this past SHOT when I realized my numbers were a 1990s model compared to what people are asking for today.

Classes do resonate and unfortunately, most people don't have a good understanding of how a class should work. They figure as long as say the right words and let them shoot alongside you, you're an instructor. It's a weird time because everyone is coming out of the woodwork, and all it really takes is a few decent finishes at a match of any caliber and you're vetted.
 

THEIS

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#48
You hear about guys wanting and getting 5k for a podcast with less than 4000 downloads to "talk" about products. Others are working in Profit Sharing models to get paid beyond the talk, etc it's crazy.
Hi,

IMO that is exactly why the FCC will broaden their scope of cracking down on social media endorsements and recommendations in regards to products.
Just as a TV commercial is required to say if the spokesperson is paid for their "endorsement".....

They started a couple years ago with high level social media persons.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...f-reminds-influencers-brands-clearly-disclose

Sincerely,
Theis
 

myronman3

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#49
i get the irritation of every swinging dick promoting themself as the in-the-know-guy. it is annoying AF.

i dont get the fear of worrying about more folks taking an interest. for crying out loud, the more gun owners we have, the better. isnt that what we have been preaching about our entire lives? and now it’s growing, people are exercising their God given rights, and some of us are belly aching?

come on....quit living in fear. this is a good thing in the grand scheme. it’s laughable when some proclaim themselves as “the guy”....but it aint no different than the way it’s always been; it’s just easier for them to stand on a soap box.
 

Diver160651

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#50
i get the irritation of every swinging dick promoting themself as the in-the-know-guy. it is annoying AF.

i dont get the fear of worrying about more folks taking an interest. for crying out loud, the more gun owners we have, the better. isnt that what we have been preaching about our entire lives? and now it’s growing, people are exercising their God given rights, and some of us are belly aching?

come on....quit living in fear. this is a good thing in the grand scheme. it’s laughable when some proclaim themselves as “the guy”....but it aint no different than the way it’s always been; it’s just easier for them to stand on a soap box.
Maybe you haven't seen how the political machine works.. Even in my posts I try to stay away from certain words. Not because I am afraid or "chicken little" but I know first hand how the shit works.

You are absolutely naive if you do not know or believe that up and coming politicians, interns and the like; who are using the anti-gun platform for their shortcut to political fame, are getting their information and developing their strategies, in a large part, are from the social media rhetoric, including forums they use to learn and to craft their fear based, anti-gun bills.
 
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