Anyone tried the new Hornady 6.5 147 ELD-M vs 140 ELD-M

todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#1
So I noticed on the Hornady website that the 140g ELD-M is no longer offered, and now there appears to be a new (to me?) 147g ELD-M I'm assuming to replace it?

Has anyone tried them yet and have a range report?

Powder Valley shows them being the same price as the 140's so that's good.

Guess I'd better order some and start some load development here pretty shortly.
 
Feb 14, 2017
891
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DC Area, MD
#4
So I noticed on the Hornady website that the 140g ELD-M is no longer offered, and now there appears to be a new (to me?) 147g ELD-M I'm assuming to replace it?
Huh? Hornady still has both the projectile, SKU 26331, and the loaded cartridge, SKU 81500, on their website.
 
Feb 14, 2017
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#5
I've run a couple hundred of the 147s out of a 6.5 Creed at 2755 fps. I like them so far. I've tested them out to 1245 yes and the advertised G1 of .697 seems to be spot on.
 

todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#7
Huh? Hornady still has both the projectile, SKU 26331, and the loaded cartridge, SKU 81500, on their website.
Strange. The 140 ELD-M didn't populate the day when I was looking (which is what prompted this post). Now that you've mentioned it and I go back and look again, now it's there. Not sure.

I shoot the 140 with great success, so I'm glad it's still available, however after looking at the 147 it does look intriguing and possibly worth a box to try to develop a load and see what it does in competition.
 
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todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#9
I've run a couple hundred of the 147s out of a 6.5 Creed at 2755 fps. I like them so far. I've tested them out to 1245 yes and the advertised G1 of .697 seems to be spot on.
Was that 2755 from factory or handloads? I was afraid that I'd lose a lot of speed like that due to the heavier projectile, and the performance would drop.
(My 140's are at 2870 <43.2g H4350 w/26" barrel>)

Based on that speed (2755), the 147 will require 0.2 MIL more elevation, but would be 0.1 better in the wind than my 140's at 2870 with a 5 mph 9 o'clock wind at 1K.
If I can get the 147's to 2800, it would be 0.1 less elevation instead, and still 0.1 better wind.
 
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teerex

Full Member
Jun 13, 2012
143
5
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34
Columbus, OH
#10
I tested some in a 6.5x47 just for giggles, hoping to use them in my saum. It shot well, but I think ultimately the 140's are going to out perform it It has a long bearing surface and it's really going to need more speed to hang. The initial BC is only accurate above the published speed. Plugging numbers into the Hornady 4DOF seems to give pretty good data.
 
Feb 14, 2017
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#11
Was that 2755 from factory or handloads? I was afraid that I'd lose a lot of speed like that due to the heavier projectile, and the performance would drop.
(My 140's are at 2870 <43.2g H4350 w/26" barrel>)

Based on that speed (2755), the 147 will require 0.2 MIL more elevation, but would be 0.1 better in the wind than my 140's at 2870 with a 5 mph 9 o'clock wind at 1K.
If I can get the 147's to 2800, it would be 0.1 less elevation instead, and still 0.1 better wind.
Thats with handloads. That was with 42.4g H4350. I shot them again today with 42.6g H4350 for a MV of 2778 SD 4 ES 9. For reference, my 140 ELD load is the same charge weight and averages 2795 so I don't think you will lose much velocity. These are being shot out of a 26" Bartlein with 2,500 rounds on it. The high milage is probably the cause for the lower than avg MV not the bullet weight.

 
Feb 11, 2013
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Riverside, CA
#13
I need to get into handloading; that's nearly 150fps more than I get out of the factory loaded 140gr ELD albeit with a 24" barrel.
So you're only getting apx 2650fps with factory 140gr ELD with a 24" bbl???? Is it that much slower than the AMAX? I'm getting +-2705fps with factory AMAX with my 20" bbl.
 

todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#15
What are the advantages and disadvantages of going from the 140 to 147 eld-m in a 6.5cm bolt gun?
That's the million dollar question on the table.

Ideally, the 147 ELD-M with its higher G1 BC of .697 vs the 140 ELD-M's G1 BC of .646 would mean that the 147's would perform better in the wind - meaning that the 147 would require less horizontal correction than the 140 in the exact same wind. The challenge we are facing is that the 147 is (obviously) heavier than the 140, and therefore would travel slower with the same powder charge than the 140, and slower speeds mean that the gains from the higher BC may be lost due to a slower round.

At least from what limited work I did the other day in JBM, it appears that at least in my gun the 147 should show a small improvement over the 140, IF the 147 is going at or faster than 2800 fps, it will need 0.1 less elevation to reach 1,000 yards, and it will need 0.1 MIL less wind correction in a 5 mph full-value crosswind at 1K than the 140 I'm currently using in my 6.5 Creedmore bolt gun.

0.1 doesn't sound like a lot of advantage, but in this game on the paper targets we (NorCal) shoots at 1K, that can mean the difference between a 9 and an X, or a complete miss and a 6. Those add up. Points matter.

Guys, if I've missed anything, jump on in.
 
#16
That's the million dollar question on the table.

Ideally, the 147 ELD-M with its higher G1 BC of .697 vs the 140 ELD-M's G1 BC of .646 would mean that the 147's would perform better in the wind - meaning that the 147 would require less horizontal correction than the 140 in the exact same wind. The challenge we are facing is that the 147 is (obviously) heavier than the 140, and therefore would travel slower with the same powder charge than the 140, and slower speeds mean that the gains from the higher BC may be lost due to a slower round.

At least from what limited work I did the other day in JBM, it appears that at least in my gun the 147 should show a small improvement over the 140, IF the 147 is going at or faster than 2800 fps, it will need 0.1 less elevation to reach 1,000 yards, and it will need 0.1 MIL less wind correction in a 5 mph full-value crosswind at 1K than the 140 I'm currently using in my 6.5 Creedmore bolt gun.

0.1 doesn't sound like a lot of advantage, but in this game on the paper targets we (NorCal) shoots at 1K, that can mean the difference between a 9 and an X, or a complete miss and a 6. Those add up. Points matter.

Guys, if I've missed anything, jump on in.
Okay thats along the lines of what i was understanding. If you pressure it up to the speed where it should be you may see pressure signs and you'll gain a little bit of recoil? Would i be right to state with simplicity in mind, if your not hand loading: the 140 eld-m would be better for target work and the 147 would be better for game due to more energy?
 

todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#17
Well, no - We're all talking about the 140 ELD-M and 147 ELD-M (M for Match). These are both match-grade bullets that are not designed for hunting.
 

tho98027

Full Member
Jul 18, 2013
126
1
18
Rocky Mountains
#18
A couple times a year I like to take the creed out to a mile. Have had some decent success when conditions are perfect. Looking forward to comparing the 140 and 147 at some extended ranges. I see the 147 having an advantage.
 
Feb 20, 2017
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#19
Those 147 ELDs sure look nice. When loaded to equal pressure, the higher BC bullet will always have the lower wind drift. There is a reason FTR shooters are shooting 200 and 215 gr bullets from their 308s, even though the MV is low. They simply drift less than lighter, faster bullets with lower BC. At least for static LR shooting, I cannot see a reason not to shoot the 147 ELD.
 
Mar 1, 2013
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CA
#20
Thanks for all the great info everyone!! Not to throw a wrench in the spokes and go off topic but I'm curious how the 143 eldx are flying as well. I'm not sure if this has been addressed before and apologize if it has for bringing it up again
 

Rob01

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#21
Strange. The 140 ELD-M didn't populate the day when I was looking (which is what prompted this post). Now that you've mentioned it and I go back and look again, now it's there. Not sure.

I shoot the 140 with great success, so I'm glad it's still available, however after looking at the 147 it does look intriguing and possibly worth a box to try to develop a load and see what it does in competition.
The 140 ELD-M is not going anywhere and still available in bullet and loaded ammo. Nothing to be confused about. Not sure why you couldn't find them. Both are on the Hornady site.

I have not shot the factory loaded 147s but have loaded them and they shoot very accurately in my 8 twist barrel. Definitely worth a try. In my 27" Creedmoor I load 43grns of H4350 behind both the 140 and 147 and get 2850 and 2825fps, respectively. With a decent barrel length the 147s can be shoot at good velocity from the 6.5 Creedmoor.
 

todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#22
Thanks Rob.

Glad to hear the 140 isn't going anywhere. It's my go-to bullet.

It was very strange indeed to go to the website and NOT see the 140's. I even re-loaded the website twice to make sure I hadn't missed something or messed something up accidentally. Good discussion on the 147 though. I'll still pick up a box and do some load development and see how it stacks up to the 140 for me.
 

Rob01

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#24
Thanks Rob.

Glad to hear the 140 isn't going anywhere. It's my go-to bullet.

It was very strange indeed to go to the website and NOT see the 140's. I even re-loaded the website twice to make sure I hadn't missed something or messed something up accidentally. Good discussion on the 147 though. I'll still pick up a box and do some load development and see how it stacks up to the 140 for me.
What website are you talking about? It's always been on the Hornady site. The only think I can think of is maybe they were doing some editing when you looked but even then I don't think they would pull it.

http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5mm-.264-140-GR-ELD-Match/
http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5-Creedmoor-140-gr-ELD-Match/
 

ArmyJerry

Staff Sergeant
Nov 22, 2012
5,549
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#26
Feb 14, 2017
891
116
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DC Area, MD
#27
So you're only getting apx 2650fps with factory 140gr ELD with a 24" bbl???? Is it that much slower than the AMAX? I'm getting +-2705fps with factory AMAX with my 20" bbl.
Honestly, I haven't chronographed the barrel in a good...200ish rounds. Those velocities are from shortly after break-in and now there's a few hundred more rounds on the barrel. I may chronograph it again when I can get access to that same LabRadar unit again. If I recall, I was seeing 2850fps from the 120gr AMAX at that same time.
 

Rob01

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#28
So you're only getting apx 2650fps with factory 140gr ELD with a 24" bbl???? Is it that much slower than the AMAX? I'm getting +-2705fps with factory AMAX with my 20" bbl.
It might be in his barrel but in my 27" barrel factory 140 ELD is coming out at 2825fps and in my 28" barrel it is 2880fps. The old AMAX load was about 2795fps out of the 27" but I didn't chrono them in this 28" barrel though.
 

shamir

Sergeant
Jun 24, 2012
189
2
0
Portland, OR
#29
I shot both out of my 26" 6.5 Creedmoor - factory loads of the 140 ELD-M and 147 ELD-M.

140 ELD
2707
2758
2770
2717
2757
AVG 2741
SD 27
ES 63
Group size .736

147 ELD
2728
2715
2732
2726
2731
AVG 2726
SD 6
ES 17
Group size .836

Very impressed by the SD and ES on the 147 ELD load. I am going to shoot it again this weekend to see if I can get the group size to tighten up. This barrel has under 100 rounds and was just cleaned before I shot that 147 group.
 

todd

Sargeant
Sep 21, 2013
133
2
18
NorCal
#30
What website are you talking about? It's always been on the Hornady site. The only think I can think of is maybe they were doing some editing when you looked but even then I don't think they would pull it.

http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5mm-.264-140-GR-ELD-Match/
http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5-Creedmoor-140-gr-ELD-Match/
OK, I'm going to tell on myself a little bit here... I went back to the Hornady website to try and figure out exactly what happened and why I couldn't see my precious 140 ELD-M's, and I uncovered what transpired.

Let me begin by saying that it was COMPLETELY my fault, and there never was anything at all wrong with Hornady's website.

It looks like once I was at Hornady's home page, I clicked the link for the 'ELD-Match Bullets' on right side of the "New for 2017" New Products Overview at the top center of the page. I didn't know it at the time, but the page it took me to apparently only showed the ELD-M product line ADDITIONS for 2017, and did not include the 140's because they aren't a "New for 2017" product offering. Here is the link I clicked on:

http://www.hornady.com/store/ELD-Match-New

If you go to the very bottom of the page, it shows the 6.5 130 ELD-M, then below that the 147 ELD-M, which is what prompted me to wonder why my 140's weren't listed!

So, short version, I mis-read the "New for 2017" webpage I was looking at, mistakenly believing that it represented the entirety of the ELD-M lineup, which it didn't because it was only representative of the additions to the ELD-M lineup in 2017.

-Todd


 
Feb 11, 2013
109
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Riverside, CA
#31
It might be in his barrel but in my 27" barrel factory 140 ELD is coming out at 2825fps and in my 28" barrel it is 2880fps. The old AMAX load was about 2795fps out of the 27" but I didn't chrono them in this 28" barrel though.

I only have a couple boxes of old AMAX left. I think I'll chronograph it again alongside the ELDM and see what happens. Barrel has 500-600 rounds on it. I was thinking of getting a 24" barrel and keeping my 20" as a spare even though it's very accurate, and was figuring I'd gain 50 to 70fps. Maybe it's not worth it though, and I should just shut the hell up and shoot what I got.
 

Rob01

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#32
I only have a couple boxes of old AMAX left. I think I'll chronograph it again alongside the ELDM and see what happens. Barrel has 500-600 rounds on it. I was thinking of getting a 24" barrel and keeping my 20" as a spare even though it's very accurate, and was figuring I'd gain 50 to 70fps. Maybe it's not worth it though, and I should just shut the hell up and shoot what I got.
If you are getting a new barrel from the 20" then go for a good length and go 26-28". ;)
 
Feb 11, 2013
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Riverside, CA
#34
Man, 28" seems like it'd be a Kentucky Rifle, not that I'll be climbing after mountain goat or anything. 8" of medium Palma Bartlein is what, maybe 2# more hanging off its nose. But the extra velocity for the 140 or 147 ELDM would definitely be nice. I think I could maybe swing 26" without bitching too much.
 

Rob01

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#35
LOL 28" is not bad at all especially with a med palma. My first barrel was a 28" MTU and I got around with it no problems. Now I have a 28" M24, 27" med palma and have a 28" med palma being chambered up. All have brakes on them too. It's not hard to get around with any and the light weight med palma the extra few inches isn't even noticeable being the lighter contour. But if 26" is what you can go to and sleep at night then go with it. You will like the velocity and if you find you don;t like it you can always cut it back easy enough.
 
Feb 14, 2017
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#37
I've had good experience out of both 143 and 147. 143 shot well with a pretty tame loading out of a Savage 10T 6.5 with 24" barrel. Was money at 1000, and consistent at 1200. 2710 fps.

Shot the 147 out of a 26" Shilen 6.5x55 on a savage action and got to 2820 or so with it. Didn't do much more load work on it, but the BC was correct out to 1200 yards as well. I think the 147 will really show up well in either long action 6.5s or the saum. The bullet itself is incredibly long, so it's going to take up some powder space in those short action cases.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Rob01

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#38
Loaded out to .020" of the lands the 147 doesn't go that deep into the case in the Creedmoor. If you are going to 2.810" then you might have more issues.
 
#39
I am researching what is known about ELD-M and ELD-X at extreme range. I have the Horsepower to throw 140 Hybrids at 2950 currently and wonder about the heavier bullets (1000 and beyond). I want to know if anyone has groups that are impressive with them at any distance compared to the hybrids for your gun. Secondly, I want to know how the consistency compares when the batch is miked and weighted since extreme distance is picky about this! Lastly, I will be hitting groundhogs at those distances and wonder about the performance. I think the answer to that is that at reduced speeds after traveling near 1000 that they will do fine. Damage at lesser ranges (500 or so) is probably suspect.

I need to look into the RDF series as well for the same use. It will be months before I actually get the answer myself, but I suspect no one can address the killing capability at serious distance.
 
Feb 14, 2017
891
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DC Area, MD
#43
Anyone shooting the factory ELD offerings finding a difference in variability from lot to lot? I've got 3 different lots of 140 grn loaded cartridges and I'm seeing nearly a half-mil difference between them. Don't have a chrono available to check right now what the actual velocity is. Are people finding 147gr ELD in 6.5 Creedmoor any more consistent between lots?
 

Sierra770

Sergeant of the Hide
Nov 2, 2013
254
27
28
Atlanta, GA
#45
I am a huge Hornady fan, but I buy 2000 count case at a time to make sure I get the same lot and I still get variations. In fact out of the last case of 140 ELD that I purchased, 1600 measured alike and the other 400 were different. That being said, I am still a loyal customer.
 
Feb 14, 2017
891
116
43
DC Area, MD
#46
I am a huge Hornady fan, but I buy 2000 count case at a time to make sure I get the same lot and I still get variations. In fact out of the last case of 140 ELD that I purchased, 1600 measured alike and the other 400 were different. That being said, I am still a loyal customer.
Yeah I get the 200rd cases...I'll have to order more cases at a time in the future.
 
Mar 21, 2017
2
0
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Los Angeles
#47
I'm late to the party... just got wind of these new(er) 147gr rounds and immediately jumped into calculators and called Hornady to pick their brain.

This is what I found, and also confirmed by their folks:

(all regarding factory loads)

muzzle velocity on the 147 is listed incorrectly on their product page. It is actually 2650, not 2695. Clearly, we are seeing different numbers by way of real-life chrono tests, but it is out of the tube a little slower. BC is a smidge higher, but what disappoints me is all other ballistics are inferior: wind drift, total come up, velocity, energy, etc. I'm looking at farther ranges.

Hornady said there isn't anything too spectacular about the round. Mentioned something about having to adhere to European specs or something, they weren't out to revolutionize or noticeably improve upon the 140gr ELD.

Scratching my head.... guess the heavier and longer bullet is nice in the face of wind, but looks like it falls a tad short everywhere else compared to the 140 variant.
 

Rob01

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#48
I'm late to the party... just got wind of these new(er) 147gr rounds and immediately jumped into calculators and called Hornady to pick their brain.

This is what I found, and also confirmed by their folks:

(all regarding factory loads)

muzzle velocity on the 147 is listed incorrectly on their product page. It is actually 2650, not 2695. Clearly, we are seeing different numbers by way of real-life chrono tests, but it is out of the tube a little slower. BC is a smidge higher, but what disappoints me is all other ballistics are inferior: wind drift, total come up, velocity, energy, etc. I'm looking at farther ranges.

Hornady said there isn't anything too spectacular about the round. Mentioned something about having to adhere to European specs or something, they weren't out to revolutionize or noticeably improve upon the 140gr ELD.

Scratching my head.... guess the heavier and longer bullet is nice in the face of wind, but looks like it falls a tad short everywhere else compared to the 140 variant.

Muzzle velocity is listed from their 24" test barrel. Your rifle might be different and probably will.
 
Mar 21, 2017
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Los Angeles
#49
Muzzle velocity is listed from their 24" test barrel. Your rifle might be different and probably will.

After re-reading my post, the muzzle velocity bit wasn't clear. I meant, Hornady incorrectly listed the MV for this round on their product page. They list 2695, but it is actually 2650. Should be updated soon, Hornady said.

I haven't shot this round and have no data. Simply comparing all the factory data listed on their site. When inputting all that into calculators, and after bouncing is off Hornady, the conclusion was the 147 isn't significantly better or worse, ballistically.
 
Feb 11, 2013
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Riverside, CA
#50
So I finally had time to go shooting, albeit with a friends son for his 1st shooting trip, so I only compared 5 rounds of each ammo for 2 5-round averages (140gr AMAX vs 140gr ELD-M). I let him shoot the rest of the ammo I brought without my MagS V3 chrono hanging off the barrel.

This is Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo out of a R700 built by GAP with a 20.5" medium palma (used to be 22"). Both groups were right at 1" with the chrono mounted (100 yds).

Shot at apx 4550' elevation, apx 70 deg, blah blah blah

AMAX = 5 round average of 2691 fps, SD of 12.0

ELD-M = 5 round average of 2651 fps, SD of 12.6


I think it's disappointing. It's accurate, sure, but the same speed would be nice IMO.
 
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