Anyone running dual band goggle setup?

car16smg

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Dual 14s with standard COTI is 10. Mounts and helmet is another 1200. E-COTI is double the price of the standard, but I’ve read the 640 display is pretty sweet 🤑
 
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WhereNow&How

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I’m wondering Where’s the least expensive place to get a COTI or even E-COTI?
From what I have read lately, it looks like the E COTI might have or is fixing to become Unobtainium due to filling military contracts. Additionally, it has been reported that the 640 is not really that much better than the 320 units as far as distance and i always just run mine in outline anyway, so don't see how a 640 would really enhance that mode much.

Most of the increase in price has to do with all the features added which enable it to link up to the military real time grid system which is of absolutely no use to a civilian. The original COTI has a nice easy to use Nob to increase its gain. This has been changed to a much smaller button or nob that is supposedly a pain in the ass to use per my reading.

Best place to get a COTI the last couple of years price wise was Nivisys. They were liquidating some of their TACS-M's which are exactly the same as the Pas 29 Coti, with the only difference being the Tacs M does not have the external port to run an external battery.

Most of what I have reported above on the E Coti, came from reading a post on AR15 from TNVC's Augee. If it was me, I would go with the original COTI and try to get it as cheap as possible. IMHO the COTI's are pretty weak systems that are really for a more specialized mission compared to other compact Thermals that can be helmet mounted but are not a fusion setup. Don't get me wrong, a COTI is a nice setup in certain situations, but all around I would go with a PVS 14 and Breach/Skeet, MTM all night over the COTI.

If the COTI's were as strong at detecting as the Breach/Skeet, MTM I would definitely prefer the COTI then for sure.
 
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j-huskey

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WN&H says COTI is a weak system specialized to mission specific tasks, relating to tnvc-augee article.
And that dedicated smaller thermals are preferable to coti for general use.

This is the truth as I know it as well, and not from the article.
Coti is fragile compared to dedicated units. It's a carbuncle added to a 14 that isnt designed for extremely hard use, the failure rate is much higher than dedicated units.
The usable range is much reduced from a dedicated unit.

I removed myself from earlier coti for all those reasons and the short battery life.

Going through doors looking for people, I was ok with coti. All night in the woods not so ok. Mtm was so much more useful.

Jmhe.. your mileage may have varied. vr
 
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wigwamitus

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Aye, I've reported on my mileage with COTI multiple times. It's an essential piece of gear for using laser in the woods / heavily vegetated area, when 14 only cannot see the critter. Coti can see the critter and 14 can see the laser and "bang". Reports on recent use are in my night shooting thread.

Short battery life is a big deal. The biggest. And working on a plug to solve. The tough part is the threads. We are getting closer.

But all that said, and as I've stated multiple times. COTI is not much of a spotter it is a shooting/aiming aid. That's why I also wear skeet or patrol on left eye with 14+coti on right eye. That combination works for me when walking and stalking with carbine + laser, usually in woods.
 
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WhereNow&How

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WN&H says COTI is a weak system specialized to mission specific tasks, relating to tnvc-augee article.
And that dedicated smaller thermals are preferable to coti for general use.

This is the truth as I know it as well, and not from the article.
Coti is fragile compared to dedicated units. It's a carbuncle added to a 14 that isnt designed for extremely hard use, the failure rate is much higher than dedicated units.
The usable range is much reduced from a dedicated unit.

I removed myself from earlier coti for all those reasons and the short battery life.

Going through doors looking for people, I was ok with coti. All night in the woods not so ok. Mtm was so much more useful.

Jmhe.. your mileage may have varied. vr
Your comments are 150% spot on to my experiences also. I do own and run 2 TACS M Coti's sometimes. They mainly sit nowday's due to my Breach setups.

All of my previous comments related to the E Coti where mainly taken from TNVC Augee's post. He apparently has had the opportunity to run and evaluate the E Coti system and provides the 1st, (first hand) evaluation of it that I have seen anywhere out there.

However, like you said, going through doors and close range it does a good job at that. That is what the system was designed for.
 

WhereNow&How

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Aye, I've reported on my mileage with COTI multiple times. It's an essential piece of gear for using laser in the woods / heavily vegetated area, when 14 only cannot see the critter. Coti can see the critter and 14 can see the laser and "bang". Reports on recent use are in my night shooting thread.

Short battery life is a big deal. The biggest. And working on a plug to solve. The tough part is the threads. We are getting closer.

But all that said, and as I've stated multiple times. COTI is not much of a spotter it is a shooting/aiming aid. That's why I also wear skeet or patrol on left eye with 14+coti on right eye. That combination works for me when walking and stalking with carbine + laser, usually in woods.
Put me down for 3 plugs if you would Please Sir. I got a buddy that would love one also. You the man. I have been thinking the same thing for a while but you appear to be way ahead of me on making it happen.
 

Eliteuas

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Anything clean for $3,500 or lower than that and you are getting pretty decent value for your money IMHO.
Clean as in image wise or not stolen LOL?
it would primarily be used for spotting fox and coyote outlines to 150 yards if that’s possible.. and at the point of seeing a heat signature I’d switch to my pvs30 for confirmation.
psq36s are my dream goggles... I can have the poor mans version lol
 

WhereNow&How

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Both, didn't fall of the back of truck and not beat up. On fox and coyote at 150 yards. If in clean area it will do it if thermal conditions are decent. But that is about the absolute furtherest that I have been able to spot a fox in outline mode. If there is any vegetation the distance will drop significantly depending on how thick.
 
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wigwamitus

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If you want a head mounted thermal spotter, the MTM or even the Breach would be a better choice ... the breach is lower cost. The plus of the coti is for helping the 14 aim with the laser when the 14 can't see the critter.

I do occasionally go "minimalist" with only 1x14 and the coti. But that's usually in open pasture ... and for whatever reason I also use outline mode for that :D ... And it works great for detection. Out to about 600yds, ,depending on thermal condiions. But I still don't consider the coti to be much of a spotter. The MTM and Breach are your under $4k solutions for head mounted spotting.
 
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WhereNow&How

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If you want a head mounted thermal spotter, the MTM or even the Breach would be a better choice ... the breach is lower cost. The plus of the coti is for helping the 14 aim with the laser when the 14 can't see the critter.

I do occasionally go "minimalist" with only 1x14 and the coti. But that's usually in open pasture ... and for whatever reason I also use outline mode for that :D ... And it works great for detection. Out to about 600yds, ,depending on thermal condiions. But I still don't consider the coti to be much of a spotter. The MTM and Breach are your under $4k solutions for head mounted spotting.
I do 150% 2nd Wig's assessment. If I had to do either/or, I would pick a Breach, MTM over a COTI if I could only have one.
 
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Rancid Coolaid

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A quick update: I have now paired the 5-button remote to the Breach and holy cow is that an entirely different experience. Playing with the settings quite a bit lead to an image that I can run on weak side with a PVS14 on the strong side. It is watching a digital screen, so not the same as watching through an optic, but my brain can pair the images.

I am running dual 14s in spotting and moving, but have been using the Breach/14 when solo hunting in blackout mode.

For Breach owners struggling with the stupid buttons on the device, get the remote - so worth the time and money!
 

WhereNow&How

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I take hook and loop and make a watch band for mine after removing it out of the rubber picatinny rail holder. Put it on just like a watch and it makes it super easy to zoom in and out plus access any other menu features. These 5 Button Remotes run off of CR123 Batteries and you just screw off the back plate and put a new one to change.

1576530104623.png

1576530285563.png
 

Rancid Coolaid

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Mine is similar but more ghetto. I had an old Suunto watch that died and put hook on the face and loop on the back of the remote (without pic rail interface.) Same thing: wrist mount, easy access.
 

j-huskey

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Hand made Con-Trap-shun..... (contraption).....

Rear view
20191220_143401.jpg

Front view
20191220_143431.jpg

Pictured with Wilcox bridge.

Thing works fine right now hand held. Got to make adjustments to center units when on helmet mount. Need to move both units left.
Re-do/lengthen left slot, and see what happens. No, they wont flip out sideways, out of the way, but, this will work on the super inexpensive side. For the do it at home handyman.
 
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BamaSE

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Thanks to all, this has been a very instructive thread for me. Has anyone tried to run a Patrol/PVS14 dual setup that wears glasses? If so, is there a dual mount that will push the Patrol further forward? I currently have a Wilcox G22 and their dual bridge and even with one arm on the dual bridge flipped and reversed to provide more forward movement of the Patrol, I still cannot wear my glasses.
 

j-huskey

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Possibly a Norotos AKA2 mount. I use one and there is a good amount of forward adjustment.
Possibly that mount system
 
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WhereNow&How

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Thanks to all, this has been a very instructive thread for me. Has anyone tried to run a Patrol/PVS14 dual setup that wears glasses? If so, is there a dual mount that will push the Patrol further forward? I currently have a Wilcox G22 and their dual bridge and even with one arm on the dual bridge flipped and reversed to provide more forward movement of the Patrol, I still cannot wear my glasses.
Not sure what kind of helmet you are running but here is a thought for you to maybe consider. You can take the thicker 4D brow pad and put in a helmet and it pushes your face away from the mount say 1/2 to maybe 3/4" ish and that will put your NODS/Devices a little bit further out.

Just a thought on how you position a helmet on your head via pads, H Nape Ratchet band etc.
 

BamaSE

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Not sure what kind of helmet you are running but here is a thought for you to maybe consider. You can take the thicker 4D brow pad and put in a helmet and it pushes your face away from the mount say 1/2 to maybe 3/4" ish and that will put your NODS/Devices a little bit further out.

Just a thought on how you position a helmet on your head via pads, H Nape Ratchet band etc.
Thanks, have not thought of that but will check. Running with a Team Wendy bump helmet.
 

j-huskey

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@BamaSE

helmet with AKA2 at full extension with dual 14 unit on Integrated Components lightweight mount. Bottom view and side view. Maybe it will give a frame of reference. Hopefully.

20200104_140356.jpg

20200104_141710.jpg
 
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j-huskey

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Frog05's pic, showing patrol and pvs 14, eye pieces even. Should work on AKA2.

Screenshot_20200104-142801_Chrome.jpg


NewGuys pic, eyepieces not even. Doesnt look like it will work with AKA2.

Screenshot_20200104-142925_Chrome.jpg

@BamaSE

Can you post a pic of your unit, laid out like new guys. Give us an idea.
 

WhereNow&How

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@j-huskey . I can tell just by looking at those pics it is comfortable. I hear some crying about the weight of a dual set of PVS 14's and I think most of that comes from they don't have the inside of their helmets set up/padded correctly and or properly counter weighted.

Also, because of not being setup up correctly, quite often they are having to run their chinstraps way too tight. Setting up a helmet correctly is probably the most important thing to enjoying a night out under NODS IMHO.
 
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j-huskey

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You and I are in agreement on proper setup. Do it wrong and suffer, badly. Do it right, still not the most fun, but works well enough to have fun removing mr yote or ms pig.
I hate a helmet, especially a kevlar.... for some strange reason... 🤔🤨😏😁
 

BamaSE

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Frog05's pic, showing patrol and pvs 14, eye pieces even. Should work on AKA2.

View attachment 7216866


NewGuys pic, eyepieces not even. Doesnt look like it will work with AKA2.

View attachment 7216867

@BamaSE

Can you post a pic of your unit, laid out like new guys. Give us an idea.
Thanks for sharing this. I will share a picture of the setup, but it will be a couple days before I am back and town and can do so. It looks just like the last pic with the right Wilcox arm flipped too.
 

j-huskey

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@BamaSE

Frog05's bridge is an Integrated Components unit, using the unit's removable arm on the 14, and the bridge receptacle (minus that arm) for the patrol's dovetail.

Newguys setup is the wilcox bridge. I have spent about an hour screwing with my wilcox bridge and my Reap/IR, which is the same body fit as the patrol. I cant get any different setup than the pic shown.
And.... it's back under the helmet lip, around 3/8" at full forward extension.
Real close to my glasses experiment.

Cant say how it might work for you without you actually trying an aka2.

Is BamaSE an indicator you are "in south east Bama" ?
If you are, I am in central east bama, near (kinda) Ft Benning and the cow college (😁)...

Potential for hands on some equipment.
 

Frog05

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@BamaSE @j-huskey is correct, it is an
IC Bridge. Here is a better pic showing Eyepiece offset with a 14/Patrol setup. (Its not a great pic but it's the best one I've got that shows what we are talking about)
IMG_4857.jpg
As you can tell, it wasn't perfect by any means but I found it very usuable. I didnt have any issues with eye box on either unit that I recall.
I ran it with a Norotos Lo Sto most of the time with no problems but I did try it out with a Wilcox G22 and that gave me the option of running it wayyy out there if one needed to do so. Not sure how that would do with glasses but it would take it out far enough that the NVD's looked like they were a mile away from my face! Lol
 
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BamaSE

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Yep, about 2 hours south. And my setup is the same eye wise
@BamaSE

Frog05's bridge is an Integrated Components unit, using the unit's removable arm on the 14, and the bridge receptacle (minus that arm) for the patrol's dovetail.

Newguys setup is the wilcox bridge. I have spent about an hour screwing with my wilcox bridge and my Reap/IR, which is the same body fit as the patrol. I cant get any different setup than the pic shown.
And.... it's back under the helmet lip, around 3/8" at full forward extension.
Real close to my glasses experiment.

Cant say how it might work for you without you actually trying an aka2.

Is BamaSE an indicator you are "in south east Bama" ?
If you are, I am in central east bama, near (kinda) Ft Benning and the cow college (😁)...

Potential for hands on some equipment.
Yep, about 2 hours due south! And my setup is the same distance off the eyes as your Reap. I can run without my glasses but it is kinda a PIA as I also have to adjust my scope to my eyes with no glasses too then when I flip it up cannot see a thing.....including finding my glasses lol. My wish for Shot Show this year is someone releasing a 640 compact unit that can be easily dual mounted with a 14....for under $5k! And for Trijicon to come out with a drop in rechargeable battery pack for the Reap and Patrol that will run 8 hours....if you’re gonna dream might as well dream big😁
 

j-huskey

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That wilcox mount appears to have more forward adjustment than the norotos AKA2, and that IC bridge definitely positions both units further forward than the wilcox bridge.
That is @BamaSE 's best potential option imho.
I wish this stuff didnt cost quite as much as it does......
 
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j-huskey

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My cheap solution to the 14 and mtm unit mounting after revision 2.

20200104_213432.jpg
20200104_214536.jpg

It does work, but takes a ton of getting used to. Would work better with a white phosphor 14 than the green.

Still working on dovetail shoes to adapt to the wilcox bridge, shoes should arrive in mail Friday, then we play some more....
Pics will follow.
 

WhereNow&How

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I wish this stuff didnt cost quite as much as it does......
[/QUOTE]

Yep, "That Smokey White & Green Devil" has us almost in as bad a shape as this poor fella. Maybe someone needs to open a "NV Rehab Center" :rolleyes:

 
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BamaSE

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Finally got back to where I can post some pictures and thanks again for all the input, that IC setup sure looks sweet. And ditto on the expense of this stuff. I considered even going with a Breach but the expense of the unit plus all the pieces and parts to run it dual with the 14 was more than I could handle for such a limited use. And I am spoiled by the Patrol clarity. One thing flipping the arm for the Patrol did accomplish is allowing it to even be functional at all with this setup even though without glasses, it was almost pushing on my eyeballs. So folks without glasses should be okay. I have every weight that came with my setup in the pouch plus when I run it I have to strap on a full 20 round 6.8 magazine to get the balance right. It is heavy. I have also found when running either unit solo to just use the Wilcox mount that came with the Patrol. It does allow glasses on the G22 and with the dovetail added to the 14 at least makes it quick and easy in the field to swap out as needed.
 

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newguy2k3v2

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My cheap solution to the 14 and mtm unit mounting after revision 2.

View attachment 7217305
View attachment 7217306

It does work, but takes a ton of getting used to. Would work better with a white phosphor 14 than the green.

Still working on dovetail shoes to adapt to the wilcox bridge, shoes should arrive in mail Friday, then we play some more....
Pics will follow.
I can verify it is indeed much easier on the eyes with a white phosphor tube vs green.
 

WhereNow&How

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I can verify it is indeed much easier on the eyes with a white phosphor tube vs green.
For us PO Folks running Green, I have had really great luck with running Sureshot SNR filters. Dang best thing I ever slapped on a Green PVS 14. It doesn't make it white but it tones it down to a very pleasant lighter colored green and eliminates most of the Scintillation such that I see a much clearer image. I don't know what "secret sauce" Jay put in them dam things but he knocked the ball out the park IMHO. I have one set of very noisy Omni 7's that the SNR filter turned them into a really good set of 14's compared to not having them on.

Those filters really help when running beside a Breach.
 

PlinkIt

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When running the beach side by side with a 14 has anyone found a way to "dim" the breach further than the settings?...

Basically asking if there are any ways to put something on the back end like we are doing with pvs14 & the snb filters, or lif, or or Wilcox Amber for example. I'd there anything similar being used to dim down the breach?
 

WhereNow&How

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Get a Sureshot SNR Filter from Surgeon Shooter (Jay) here on the Hide.

Get a Butler Creek Blizzard Size No 3. It friction fits perfectly on the Breach once you take the eyecup off.

Then knock out the lens portion of the flip up cover and Dremel/grind out the plastic so you can fit the the SureShot SNR Filter snugly in the end. Then screw/glue it in.

Alternatively, just take off the flip up portion via the hinge and the SureShot SNR Filter will pretty much fit pretty snugly into the end of the Butler Creek slip on cap. Then glue the SureShot SNR Filter into it.

Then, I suggest running a coated wire leader through the hinge holes and putting a tether on it such that you do not loose your $90 total investment out if the field should it slip off the Breach for some reason.

Butler Creek Blizzard Caps Size No 3
 
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wigwamitus

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I use a combination of Sureshot SNR filers and Night Combat Solutions (glass) Amber filters. There are also some glass amber filters available from Switzerland, last I looked. I have two of the wilcox plastic filters, but they are fuzzy. The glass ones are crystal clear.
 
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PlinkIt

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Perfect... I had just ordered a couple snb filters to try, and just found out I have a 14 I can't get the retaining ring out of anyway... So I'll try ordering the cap and see what I can do with it until I can figure out how to get the back end off the 14

Thanks guys