Anyone heard of Tract Optics?

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
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#2
Tract guys are originally from Nikon.

I do not know a whole lot about the new FFP scope and I can't take on new stuff until I work through my current backlog.

Their Phillipino products seem to be closely related to Nikon's Monarch. SFP Toric is likely based on the same optomechanical chassis as Vortex Razor HD LH (which is a good thing, since these are exceedingly nice scopes for the money).

FFP Toric is new and while I have some ideas on what the platform is, it is conjecture until I get my hands on it which is not for a while.

With Tract, Maven, Burris XTR II, Vortex PST Gen 2, Athlon Ares ETR and a few others, the competition in the $900 to $1400 segment is really heating up. That's usually a good thing for the consumer.

ILya
 
Nov 24, 2013
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#3
ILya- thanks for the feedback... I'm definitely interested to see how the FFP Toric stacks up to some of the other newcomers near this price point.
 
Aug 23, 2008
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mkmachining.com
#6
The owner of Tract just sent me one of their upper tier scopes to make throw levers for. Haven't taken it out of the shop yet. 1" tube, reticle seems good for hunting, can't comment on anything else really. Good packaging!
 
Dec 27, 2017
15
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#7
I don't have any experience with the new 30mm Toric, but I used the 3-15x50 Toric on my hunting rifle last year. Glass is obviously excellent. Turrets feel good (although I don't have much to compare them to), and it has tracked well so far. Looks like they'll have a multi-rotation zero stop for the 30mm Toric, which will be nice as the 1 inch only has 18 MOA with the zero stop set. My 3-15 has 71 MOA of total adjustment though vs the 50 stated on the website, so the 30mm might be similarly under rated.

And their customer service is excellent. My tall turret didn't index the 0 exactly on the hash mark, but after contacting Tract, they sent me a new turret kit free of charge and I had it in a couple days and now the 0 lines up perfectly.

So I'm definitely looking forward to seeing reviews on the new Toric.
 

bhoges

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Nov 11, 2003
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#8
Tract Toric 3-15x42 BDC Review

Sorry for not getting this out sooner but we had a few bad weekends of weather and I couldn't get out to shoot. Over the past few weeks I’ve made 3 range trips. The furthest distance was 200 yards for now. My other range is 700 yards but I need all the snow to be gone first. I have to say I’ve been extremely pleased with how my new rifle shoots and how well the Tract scope has performed.

The most important thing needed for testing a scope is a solid platform. The rifle I used was chambered in 223 Rem and it’s a tac driver. So far no matter what ammunition and loads I’ve tried this rifle eats it up with sub 1/2 MOA groups. Kampfeld Customs did some excellent work. I started with a trued Remington 700 action and PTG bolt. My parts list included: Brux barrel, HS stock, Calvin Elite trigger, Leupold one piece base, Burris Signature rings and a Holland recoil lug. Once I got the action back I bedded the stock and added some fancy paint. (pretty guns always shoot better) For the assembly process I degrease all my screws first. Blue loc tite and a torque wrench is a must as well. I like to eliminate all issues within the rifle so I know it’s one variable taken out of the equation.

My next step was load development. Since this rifle will be used for small game hunting and some field rifle competitions I wanted 2 loads. For hunting, 40 gr. Nosler ballistic tips and for target use, 52 SMK were utilizied. For brass the obvious choice was Lapua and powder I have a ton of Win 748. My concern is always accuracy over speed. I don't know if many of you guys have tried a Magneto Speed chrono but it’s a game changer. Fast setup and zero errors. I’m ready to take my Chrony out and put it out of it’s misery for good. I’m getting an average of 3175 fps with the 40 gr. heads and 2958 fps with the 52 gr. heads. Consistant loads with very low standard deviation are important once you get out to longer distances. The only way you’ll know is if you chromo your loads. (19 inch barrel used) I’ll use this later on for drop charts. You'll see in the pictures my groups ranged from 1/2”-1/4” at 100 yards. Even my 10 shot group was insanely small. Needless to say I love this rifle. The weather was in my favor, the days I went to the range the wind was almost non existant.

I’m not getting into comparing the glass in the scope to others. It’s too subjective and honestly the glass is so good there’s nothing to complain about. Even at 15x I can clearly see bullet holes at 200 yards in the white. All I’m going to say is the glass is extremely clear, very bright in low light conditions, and has very true colors. Aesthetically speaking I love the grey finish. It’s a nice break from the black scopes and I’m a huge fan of Cerakote Sniper Grey. Overall I was very impressed with the look and feel of the scope. Nice positive turrets, smooth parallax and power rings. I thought the way the turrets re-zero was a cool feature. No need for that annoying little allen key like most scopes. Just unscrew the top of the turret cap, remove the turret and line it back up with the correct mark. The parallax locks in place which is a nice feature as well. It has the perfect amount of tension so even if you don't lock it in place it’s not going to move.

Now for my testing. I conducted a series of box tests and tall tracking tests. The targets I used were from Bench to Box Precision. They allow you to run a scope up to 25 MOA. Once my zero was established I did a few box tests from 5 to 10 MOA. For the tall target tracking test I took one shot at each spot 5 MOA apart and ran the scope up to 25 MOA. This was repeated and every group had shots that touched. The tracking worked flawlessly. With a 100 yard zero the scope still has 47.5 MOA travel left. In all 3 trips I never had to re-adjust my initial zero. As far as a drop test, all I’m willing to do is drop the rifle butt on a ground from a little over a foot on the concrete. I did several of these after my zero and even between shots. No point of impact changes were noticed. Sorry, I care about my equipment too much to throw it. This isn't a $7000 sniper setup, take it for what it is. Sure my Nightforce scopes could probably handle a test like that but they cost 3-4x the amount of a Tract. Once I get to my other club I plan on testing on their ballistic program. I’m thinking this rifle will do pretty well out to 500 yards even with the light bullets.

Overall I’m very pleased with this scope. I believe it’s an excellent scope for hunting and target work. I really can’t complain about anything. If I have to say something maybe I wish it came with caps. But then again I understand they are keeping the cost down. I did a fair test and I hope guys are pleased. I’m sure somebody will bitch I didn't do this or that. It’s an honest test and Tract passed. What I might lack in writing and my keyboard skills I make up in shooting skills. I’m a full time firearms examiner and shoot everyday at work. Pretty much go out every weekend as well to either compete or shoot for fun. Over the past few years the optics market has changed drastically. Who would have thought 2 guys from Nikon would start a direct marketing company up selling scopes? Like any company they will have growing pains and startup might be a little slow. I suggest you give them a try for yourself. You have nothing to loose with their policy. Too many guys love to bash products they have never tried personally. I’m guilty of it myself at times. I’ve tested some scopes that I had no faith in due to the name brand and cost. I was really surprised how well they worked. This isn't Tract. Tract scopes are made to very high standards in the same factory several others high end scopes are made in. If you have some ways I could improve my testing let me know. Im always willing to learn I don't know it all.












Last edited by bhoges; 02/17/18 07:46 AM. Reason: photo issue
NRA LIfe Member, Colt, Sig, Springfield Armorer, NYBIN Certified, NYPD Firearms Examiner
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CMG 300 BP
 
Dec 28, 2001
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#9
Absolutely awesome display of shooting sir! I know your rifle is accurate, but I also know from experience that when the gear is that good that just means the mistakes are my fault! Thank you for the review. I've been looking at a Tract optic for my wife's hunting rifle, but I couldn't find a comprehensive review except for one on one of the Tract lower tier offerings. You just made my mind up for me.
 
Likes: bhoges

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
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#10
That's a nice rifle and very nice shooting. Something is wrong with the bolt though...

Tract Toric scopes look to be from the same design family as Vortex Razor HD LH. If my guess is correct, they should be similarly excellent in terms of optomechanical performance.

ILya
 
Likes: Bender

bhoges

Sergeant
Nov 11, 2003
784
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Plainview,NY
#11
I'm extremely pleased with mine. Just waiting on my buddy for the ok to chuck hunt asap. I can't wait to get this rifle out in the field. Even the 22Fire for $179 is an awesome optic.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#12
Tract has 10% off for Memorial day so I ordered up one of the new FFP Mil-Mil Toric 30mm tube scopes for about $1040.

I have a Nitrex TR2 scope which is essentially a Weaver Super Slam and has pull up to adjust locking turrets like the Tract Toric 30mm. I like that feature quite a bit so that was a plus for the Tract.

I have a Minox ZA5 scope with Schott glass and I can't complain too much about it. It sounds like Tract might be using better glass so plus #2.

So far I only have one Mil-Mil scope but I want to make the transition away from MOA. The Tract is Mil-Mil and FFP so ideal to use for ranging compared to my SFP scope which only ranges accurately at Max power so plus #3 and plus #4.

I haven't had a scope with a zero stop yet but I want one. The Tract scope has a multi-turn zero stop so you get a zero stop without limiting your drop to one rotation of the elevation turret. Plus #5 for Tract.

Every scope I own has one shortcoming or another. There is nothing wrong with them, they just were not expensive full featured scopes and I was trying to maximize my value by compromising on reticle design, SFP, no zero stop, lack of internal adjustment, mushy clicks, no side focus or something else. My Tract sounds like it is going to be much less compromised and it's not much more expensive than my Minox was.

I am looking forward to getting my scope.
 

ColoradoShooter

New Hide Member
May 24, 2018
4
0
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#13
I'm extremely pleased with mine. Just waiting on my buddy for the ok to chuck hunt asap. I can't wait to get this rifle out in the field. Even the 22Fire for $179 is an awesome optic.
Could you give a quick synopsis of the 22Fire? Looking for something on my kids CZ 452.
 

bhoges

Sergeant
Nov 11, 2003
784
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#14
The 22Fire has 3x9 with a parallax set at 50 yards and the 4x12 is set at 75 yards. They have 2 reticles available. I've shot them only out to 50 yards so far but I was amazed that a 9x scope could resolve 22 Long Rifle bullets holes so easily. For the price point its an great topic.
 

flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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#15
I got my scope.

I can't give a full review but feel wise, it is excellent. The clicks are tactile and audible. The pull up to unlock feature is nice although the Nitrex TR2/Super Slam turrets are much lower profile. The zoom ring and side focus are both very smooth but with enough drag that it will be hard to inadvertently change the setting.

The packaging is very nice but no instruction manual.

The included 3" sun shade seems to be flocked internally to prevent tube reflections, very nice detail and the machining seems flawless.

Being quite late, I can't really test the glass properly but the illuminated reticle seems nice. I've had others that spill a lot of light but this one seems to be pretty sharp, bright enough for anything you would do at night and anything you would need during the day.

It has a zero stop which I will install once it's on a rifle but I can't really test it until then.

It does have some heft to it at 34 oz.

If the glass is as good as I hope and the zero stop and tracking are good, I think I will be very pleased with this scope.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
1,179
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#16
With light adjusted eyes and the scope turned to about 15x, I looked out across the street at a dimly lit brick wall. I was able to focus on the brick pretty easily and see good detail dispite the lighting conditions and without dark adjusted eyes.

I didn't notice any chromatic aberration but I think I need something better to look at to really determine if it has any false color.

I think I need to focus the reticle but beside that, the eye box didn't seem too critical, especially eye relief, it seemed like I could move the scope 1/2" before the image turned in to a tunnel.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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495
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#18
I poked around the scope a bit more but haven't done any better optical comparison.

The zero stop seems to work as advertised but it might fool you at first.

The scope has about 21 MRAD total internal elevation adjustment and came in the box centered. The first time I installed the zero stop, I put it at the factory zero and then dialed up to see if it would go past 1 revolution. It just barely did but stopped just after when it ran out of adjustment and it took me a second to figure out what was stopping it.

I'm going to be using it in a 20 MOA (5.8 MRAD) sloped base so I should have about 16 MRAD of usable adjustment plus the reticle hashes.

I have been waffling on my choice of rings because it's a 30mm tube and if I upgrade it will be a 34mm tube most likely.

I decided to order what I really want, a set of 34mm ARC M10 low rings and I'm going to use a set of aluminum reducing rings that I bought with a set of MFI 34mm steel rings (blemished).

The MFI rings have a poorly staked cross bolt but I bought them for the spacers and those look ok and wide enough to work with the M10 rings.

My other option was to get a set of 34mm Burris XTR Signature rings which are a bit too wide and modify the ring inserts to fit the spacers. I decided against it because the 34mm rings are a lot more expensive than the 30mm rings. I don't like to feel like I'm overpaying.

The 34mm ARC M10s were the cheapest ARC ring except a pair of clearance priced 40mm mediums. 1", 30mm, 34mm and 35mm were all the same price I think.

While I was playing with the turret caps I looked at the one fit and finish issue that bothers me: the pop up locking turrets are a bit loose when in the locked position. This is a tiny nit to pick but there is about 0.010" of play in both positions.

There is a screw that retains the turrets and it has an oring around the head. The turret has two maching grooves which the oring snaps in to at either position. If the grooves were spaced further apart, there would be no play. I can't really do that but I think I can shim the turret so that in the lock position there is no play.

Another tiny issue is the reticle illumination dial. I like the position, no problem with that but the switch is stiff. This is a good thing to keep from inadvertently switching it on in the safe or case but the screw on battery compartment lid is right next to it and if you turn the ilumination switch one way, your fingertips might accidentally loosen the battery compartment lid.

The last tiny thing I can complain about is that the paralax knob has a pointer engraved in the spherical surface of the turret bell but neither the elevation nor windage turrets have that. The result is that you can't tell the setting of the turret exactly unless you raise the turret in to the unlocked position. It's not a huge deal but you might wind up .1 MRAD away from where you want to be and not know it.

I'm going to paint on pointers to address that issue but paint can chip off, it's not a permanent fix.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#19
I was looking for a similar FFP Mil-Mil scope to put on a "trainer" TAC 6 AR upper. I wanted something with similar controls so I could go back and forth without changing how I have to do things (except DOPE values).

I was looking at the Falcon M18+ and a similar Athlon scope. I was willing to use glass in the ok to decent range but they both seem to suffer from mushy clicks and limited elevation travel. I just couldn't pull the trigger.

I had looked at the Bushnell LRHSi previously but I hadn't paid attention to the reviews. When I looked again, now knowing how nice and crisp the clicks should be and the other features that the scope should share with the Toric 30mm, I read the reviews and they said the glass was fantastic.

So it's an $800 scope at GAP but it comes with a MUTT multi-tool. That's more than I wanted to spend on a trainer but if it's as good as it sounds, it will be money well spent and I can do a Tract Toric 30mm vs Bushnell LRHSi head to head comparison.

It's a 4.5-18x44 scope so not quite the zoom range or aperture of the Toric. It has a capped windage turret and I don't think the elevation turret is locking. On the plus side, it has a Christmas tree reticle so that will be something to play with.
 

just browsing

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 18, 2017
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#20
If you’re able to compare them head to head let us know your thoughts. The LRHS is supposed to be very good for the money, especially at $800, but if the Tract is that much better for 2-300 bills more than it could be a good competitor in that $1k range. I would expect it to be slightly better than the Bushnell, hopefully in DMR2 range since that would probably be the better comparison price-wise. If the Tract is found to be better than the DMR, then it’s going to be really tough not to try one.
 

flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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#21
Just looking at a side by side view of the LRHS and DMR2, the DMR2 is a lot bigger. It probably has a lot more internal adjustment and rather than having a 4-5x zoom range, it has 6x I think, maybe more. The price is a lot higher too.

I think the people shopping for a DMR2 are not going to be considering the Tract unless they think the DMR2 is too heavy or too expensive.

Comparing the value of the LRHS to the Toric, I think the Toric justifies it's price even if the LRHS was normally $750/800 and the glass is a toss up. The 50mm vs 44mm aperture, 5x zoom range vs 4x and pull up locking turrets vs exposed elevation and capped windage are all value adds. If the glass is better, even more value.

If the LRHS is comparable in quality, I think these two at these prices are a really nice combination of build quality, features and if not top tier glass, pretty close (I still have to find a really nice scope to compare with).
 

wjm308

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#22
Schott glass does not always immediately mean "alpha class" quality, it just means they use Schott glass in their scope design. This is a very interesting company and I'd like to learn more about them. I am very curious to see how they compare to the other low end ($1000 range) optics. I'm thinking of putting a review together of the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS 4.5-18x44, Burris XTR II 4-20x50, Vortex Viper PST II 5-25x50 and possible this new Tract Toric 4-20x50...
 

flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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#23
Yeah, #1 is optical design, #2 is how close the scope comes to the design, #3 is probably good coatings and #4 is the actual glass.

I think the inference you get with a Schott glass scope is they wouldn't bother to buy expensive glass if they didn't have the other three factors pretty well figured out.

I know Schott has many grades of glass, from Tract's description:

TRACT's Ultra High Definition (UHD) optics design including industry leading SCHOTT High Transmission (HT) glass, ED Lens and Fully Multicoated system
Where that slots in I don't know but it sounds fancy.
 
Apr 25, 2014
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Boise, Idaho
#24
Schott glass does not always immediately mean "alpha class" quality, it just means they use Schott glass in their scope design. This is a very interesting company and I'd like to learn more about them. I am very curious to see how they compare to the other low end ($1000 range) optics. I'm thinking of putting a review together of the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS 4.5-18x44, Burris XTR II 4-20x50, Vortex Viper PST II 5-25x50 and possible this new Tract Toric 4-20x50...
That would be an awesome comparison..
 

just browsing

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Feb 18, 2017
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#25
That would be an awesome comparison..
You gotta think too, this type of comparison would be relevant now more than ever.

I don’t want to say that we’ve reached the pinnacle of optical performance as I think there’s always room to improve designs, components, etc., but it reaches a point where you can only resolve a target or image so well...

So I think these ‘lesser scopes’ will now come to the forefront (if you’d say that they haven’t already), and it’s really going to turn into who can offer the best performance for the lowest cost as opposed to offering the best performance regardless of cost.
 
Likes: BravoSierra

flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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#26
I like the feature set that we are starting to get at a reasonable price.

The fact that you could probably compete at a PRS match with one of these and not be giving up much to the Vortex Razors and other high end tactical scopes out there is very nice.

There is always going to be a market for something nicer, I wouldn't choose one of these if I wanted a really high end ELR scope for example but they are going to be very nice choices for many people.
 

CBDR

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Mar 4, 2017
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#27
Glass is only one factor in the big picture / application. When I reflect on how much I have spent over the past five years chasing the best optic it makes me realize a few things. ONE: Your skill set does not receive any bonus points based on how much coin your willing to drop. TWO: Paper punching two inch groups from the prone at 500 meters carries no weight in the field shooting off hand. THREE: As much as I hate to admit it, it really all comes down to the basic fundamentals. It's been a long and expensive road.
 

wjm308

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#28
Yeah, #1 is optical design, #2 is how close the scope comes to the design, #3 is probably good coatings and #4 is the actual glass.

I think the inference you get with a Schott glass scope is they wouldn't bother to buy expensive glass if they didn't have the other three factors pretty well figured out.

I know Schott has many grades of glass, from Tract's description:



Where that slots in I don't know but it sounds fancy.
I agree, spec wise it sounds fantastic and dare I say "too good to be true" at least at this price point. In this increasingly competitive market manufacturers are having to come up with ways to provide better optics at better prices. Tract being new to the game has something to prove, that they can be competitive in the marketplace, provide reliable optics and have a company that will be around 10 years from now. They also appear to be a direct to consumer manufacturer similar to Revic's sales model where they're able to offer a really good product at a really good price because they're eliminating the middle man (the dealer). With this being the case one could infer the optic may be more the equivalent of the middle tier class of optics (Sig Tango 6, Leupold Mark 5HD, Steiner T5Xi, Bushnell XRS II / DMR II Pro and the like) than it is the lower end tier (Vortex PST II, Burris XTR II, etc)

The Toric appears to be the love child of a Premier LT/TT315M and a Sig Tango 6 in regard to it's look and specs, the big question is how it performs optically to both its peers as well as those above its price point, this may be another one to watch similar to Athlon.
 

flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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#29
The tube size, illumination setup and the size of the elevation turret suggest that it's mechanicals are in the same scope family as the Bushnell LRHS and maybe LRTS.

Of course it is upgraded in the zoom ratio, objective diameter, locking turrets and glass.
 

R_Swanson

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 20, 2017
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#30
Schott glass does not always immediately mean "alpha class" quality, it just means they use Schott glass in their scope design. This is a very interesting company and I'd like to learn more about them. I am very curious to see how they compare to the other low end ($1000 range) optics. I'm thinking of putting a review together of the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS 4.5-18x44, Burris XTR II 4-20x50, Vortex Viper PST II 5-25x50 and possible this new Tract Toric 4-20x50...
Include an Althon in there. It will be interesting to see how a Chinese produced scope compares. That is definitely where the market is moving.
 

R_Swanson

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Feb 20, 2017
104
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#31
I agree, spec wise it sounds fantastic and dare I say "too good to be true" at least at this price point. In this increasingly competitive market manufacturers are having to come up with ways to provide better optics at better prices. Tract being new to the game has something to prove, that they can be competitive in the marketplace, provide reliable optics and have a company that will be around 10 years from now. They also appear to be a direct to consumer manufacturer similar to Revic's sales model where they're able to offer a really good product at a really good price because they're eliminating the middle man (the dealer). With this being the case one could infer the optic may be more the equivalent of the middle tier class of optics (Sig Tango 6, Leupold Mark 5HD, Steiner T5Xi, Bushnell XRS II / DMR II Pro and the like) than it is the lower end tier (Vortex PST II, Burris XTR II, etc)

The Toric appears to be the love child of a Premier LT/TT315M and a Sig Tango 6 in regard to it's look and specs, the big question is how it performs optically to both its peers as well as those above its price point, this may be another one to watch similar to Athlon.
Maybe I'm missing it, but this scope seems to be priced competitively but not overly aggressively by any means. Maybe its possible I am comparing it to what you can get these other scopes at on sale/on ebay (still NIB tho), while you are looking at is MSRP vs MSRP, which makes the direct to consumer price more attractive?

I dunno... 30mm, 5x zoom, illuminated, no tree reticle, normal zero stop, etc. I don't see it competing with the Tango 6, XRS, 5HD, etc.

I see these 34mm tubes (35mm in the Mk5's case) as a step up.
 

R_Swanson

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Feb 20, 2017
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#32
Sorry, I cant edit my post on my phone. I should add, I do think they are a very attractive segment and its great what the consumer is getting for the money. My point was that those scopes listed are a step up in feature-set for the premium you pay.
 

flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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#33
It's an upgraded version of the LRHSi which was retailing for about $1,500 before Bushnell seems to have dropped the model.

That seems like aggressive pricing.

I imagine they will add reticle choices eventually.

5x zoom range isn't a terrible handicap.

The zero stop is a multi-turn.

The 30mm tube only hurts because the internal elevation is less than $$ 34mm scopes but a sloped base should get you as far as you need unless you shoot ELR.

Certainly there are steps up but they seem like small steps that are quite expensive.
 

wjm308

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#34
Include an Althon in there. It will be interesting to see how a Chinese produced scope compares. That is definitely where the market is moving.
I have really thought about that; however, most of the time I end up having to pay my own money to purchase these scopes which can make it very costly. I may try to contact an Athlon rep and see if they'd be willing to send me a demo unit, the new Ares ETR 4.5-30x56 probably best represents this class.
 

R_Swanson

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Feb 20, 2017
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#35
It's an upgraded version of the LRHSi which was retailing for about $1,500 before Bushnell seems to have dropped the model.

That seems like aggressive pricing.

I imagine they will add reticle choices eventually.

5x zoom range isn't a terrible handicap.

The zero stop is a multi-turn.

The 30mm tube only hurts because the internal elevation is less than $$ 34mm scopes but a sloped base should get you as far as you need unless you shoot ELR.

Certainly there are steps up but they seem like small steps that are quite expensive.
Its hard to call that the pricing when you can get an LRHSi for 800 bucks with a 150 dollar multitool. Thats the point I'm making. Theres "pricing" and then theres the realistic street price.


Do we know for sure it has the same internals as the LRHSi? All the scopes in this price range have multi turn zero stop and are 4x - 6x, no?
 

R_Swanson

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Feb 20, 2017
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#36
I have really thought about that; however, most of the time I end up having to pay my own money to purchase these scopes which can make it very costly. I may try to contact an Athlon rep and see if they'd be willing to send me a demo unit, the new Ares ETR 4.5-30x56 probably best represents this class.
I definitely understand that.

I think the BTR 4.5-27x50 might fit even better and its cheaper than the Tract. Albeit made in China.

The XTRII's specifically can be had for pretty damn cheap on ebay, brand new.
 

wjm308

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Black Forest, CO
#37
Maybe I'm missing it, but this scope seems to be priced competitively but not overly aggressively by any means. Maybe its possible I am comparing it to what you can get these other scopes at on sale/on ebay (still NIB tho), while you are looking at is MSRP vs MSRP, which makes the direct to consumer price more attractive?

I dunno... 30mm, 5x zoom, illuminated, no tree reticle, normal zero stop, etc. I don't see it competing with the Tango 6, XRS, 5HD, etc.

I see these 34mm tubes (35mm in the Mk5's case) as a step up.
Sorry for not being more clear, when I spoke of competing with other scopes that are priced above it I was speaking mostly of optical quality. The Bushnell LRHS/LRTS only has a 4x erector and is not very short, but the reason it has so much appeal is because of its exceptional optical quality for its price point (that and the fact it is pretty light when compared to other FFP optics). When compared to the DMR II 3.5-21x50 it falls short in many areas spec wise but has traditionally held a price point close to the DMR II, why is that when it seems the DMR II has so much more to offer, I would venture to say it is because Bushnell used an optical formula that allowed this scope to excel. Much like the Vortex AMG 6-24x50, it too is only a 4x and not very short but is set at a price point equivalent to the Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 that beats it spec wise in many areas. While the scopes may be a bit lighter and offer different reticles, part of what makes them so popular is how well they perform optically. Within the optics industry you typically get what you pay for, and what you pay for in higher priced optics is usually better optical quality which is frequently defined by "glass". Companies are throwing all kinds of acronyms and terms into their "glass" (like ED, HD, HT, light transmission, etc.) to convince the consumer that this is a "better" product; however, there is no measurement available to the consumer that identifies how good the glass actually is in scope A from scope B other than (typically) the cost.

Back when the Vortex AMG 6-24x50 came out they still only had the PST line and in that lineup was a very similarly spec'd 6-24x50 scope; however, there was close to a $1800 difference between the two and while the expectation is that build quality, ergo's and mechanics would be better, nobody in their right mind would pay a $1800 premium for those features, but what they will pay more for is better optical quality. Before the Razor Gen II scopes came to market, the entry for "premium" long range scopes was close to $3000 or more, but I believe the Razor Gen II shook some things up a bit, offering really good glass at a price $500 or more below the competition. 10 years ago what were your options for good FFP long range scopes, but look at the market today where there are many more options available. Competition typically pushes the limits on what you can offer at different price points and I think we are now seeing an era with sport optics where if you want to stay in the game and be successful you're going to have to offer more for less. Sure the major brands will always sell scopes even if they are inferior to lower priced options simply due to brand recognition, but word soon gets out that you could have bought a better scope for a cheaper cost and brand X begins to lose revenue, I have a feeling that is where we're at today. Demand drives the market and lately it would seem the demand has been for "better" quality lower priced optics. What's funny is as I say this, it wasn't that long ago when I thought I'd never pay more than $500 for a scope because I thought the law of diminishing returns negated the need for higher priced optics, of course, now having physically used some alpha class scopes I understand why some people would choose to invest; however, the looming question is whether one truly "needs" a higher end/cost scope and the answer with the offerings we have today I believe is a resounding no, we don't "need" to spend $3k+ on an optic to get really good glass with reliable mechanics.

That's why I'm so intrigued by the latest $1000 scopes as I think they represent the best bang per buck we've seen to date, and the Tract Toric may be yet another entry into this marketplace that has the potential to turn some heads by offering optical quality that was previously only available in the $1500 - $2000 class of scopes.
 
Likes: R_Swanson

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#38
Its hard to call that the pricing when you can get an LRHSi for 800 bucks with a 150 dollar multitool. Thats the point I'm making. Theres "pricing" and then theres the realistic street price.


Do we know for sure it has the same internals as the LRHSi? All the scopes in this price range have multi turn zero stop and are 4x - 6x, no?
If you look at GAPs optics page, you'll see the non-pre-order LRHS is either $1,200 or $1,300.

That $800 price isn't forever unless GAP can pull an SFWA and make it a private label product like Super Sniper.

Even with that price I think Tract probably offers more for the money. That is why I think the pricing is aggressive.
 
Likes: wjm308
Mar 18, 2012
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#40
If you look at GAPs optics page, you'll see the non-pre-order LRHS is either $1,200 or $1,300.

That $800 price isn't forever unless GAP can pull an SFWA and make it a private label product like Super Sniper.

Even with that price I think Tract probably offers more for the money. That is why I think the pricing is aggressive.

Why do you feel the Tract offers more for the money? Considering even without the multi tool it's $200+ dollars more? I'm honestly curious since I'm trying to pull the trigger on the bushnell deal.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#41
5x magnification range instead of 4x, 50mm objective instead of 44mm, locking turrets instead of exposed elevation and capped windage.

The Schott glass is probably a value add too, I'm going to have to wait and see.

They have a lot in common but are not the same.
 

R_Swanson

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 20, 2017
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#42
These things even out. Its not like I'd pay 1000 for a used LHRSi the day after the GAP deal ends. The market knows the fair price for these scopes now.

There still is no definitive answer that this scope is the same as the Bushnell, thats purely speculation. What we know about the Bushnell is it tracks very well, has decent glass for the money, and is fairly light. That's where its value resides.

The more optics in the market the merrier. But I still don't see where this blows the competition away when comparing realistic low end street prices (aka a sale price) vs the Tract.

However I agree with WJM above, great post btw. The current crop of ~1kish scopes is a very intriguing lineup and it's cool what you are getting for the money these days, both in perceived quality and feature set. And the Tract seems to be part of this group.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#43
They are both made at LOW, they both have the same 30mm tube with a big elevation turret, both FFP, both zero stop, both have similar reticle illumination controlls, the occular bells look very similar.

It's like a Honda Civic vs an Acura Integra. Under the skin they are the same.

It like the way the Falcon M18+ is very similar to some Athlon scopes. It's a common design and probably a common factory. The design is probably owned by the factory so the scopes are essentially white boxed.

LOW seems to be doing the same thing with more expensive, higher quality designs. Bushnell ordered up a base model, Tract checked off a lot of options.
 

R_Swanson

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 20, 2017
104
14
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#44
They are both made at LOW, they both have the same 30mm tube with a big elevation turret, both FFP, both zero stop, both have similar reticle illumination controlls, the occular bells look very similar.

It's like a Honda Civic vs an Acura Integra. Under the skin they are the same.

It like the way the Falcon M18+ is very similar to some Athlon scopes. It's a common design and probably a common factory. The design is probably owned by the factory so the scopes are essentially white boxed.

LOW seems to be doing the same thing with more expensive, higher quality designs. Bushnell ordered up a base model, Tract checked off a lot of options.
No. Its not. LOW makes a bunch of scopes, binos, spotters, etc. A shit ton of them have similar specs.

A great example of this is the 85mm spotter they make for like 7 companies that looks exactly the same but are all different. The Razor Gen2 spotter is an iteration of this.

They make them to spec and those specs are all different, depending on manufacturer and price point.

LOW manufacturers a shit ton of scopes. Not many of them have the tracking reputation of Bushnells offerings.

You're making assumptions we have no idea are true. And on the internet those things all of a sudden become fact.
 
Nov 18, 2017
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PA
#45
So, I had a chance to take my Tract Toric 4-20 out to South Dakota about 6 weeks ago. I was going out for prairie dog hunting on private property that my best friend dad owned. I took my 6.5 CM AR10 custom build w/ Tract Toric 4-20x50 and Daniel Defense AR15. Prior to the trip, I was going back and forth between what to put on my DD prior to the trip. I had T2 on it for the longest time but of course that was not conducive for prairie dog hunting. So, I bought a NF NX8. I absolutely hated the NX8 and I was weeks away from leaving for the trip. I decided to do it the wrong way (ha) and just bring the Tract Turic and switch back and forth. So, I zeroed with my 6.5CM and wrote down my numbers and where I placed on rail. I then zeroed with the DD and again wrote down my zero and where I placed on rail. I was a little nervous that my zero would be off going back and forth but to my surprise it stayed the same, even after 4 days of shooting and alternating rifles multiple times each day. I was extremely impressed with the Tract! My only complaint is the FOV is OK, but overall it's a great optic!

 
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wjm308

Send it!
Nov 30, 2012
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Black Forest, CO
#48
The above picture is pretty much all I took while in the field. It was a fun trip and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Which caps are on your Toric? Are those the Tenebraex caps?

PS - I love the custom American Flag paint job, was that one of Aero's special builds or did you have that done on your own? Been thinking about having Michael Segouin do something like that for me...
 
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Nov 18, 2017
22
8
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PA
#49
Which caps are on your Toric? Are those the Tenebraex caps?

PS - I love the custom American Flag paint job, was that one of Aero's special builds or did you have that done on your own? Been thinking about having Michael Segouin do something like that for me...
Yes, they're the Tenebraex covers. Fit nicely and work great. The receiver set is ZEV (upper/lower and rail) and I had the custom cerakote job done at Pittsburgh Cerakote.