American Rifle Company New Archimedes Action, New Xylo Chassis, and major Mausingfield revision

karagias

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And here's why our XYLO's are still hanging out there.....Ted's been thinking about actions some more.

That is a true statement however I'm thinking about other things as well, more than just actions and the chassis. It was important for us to streamline our workflows by revising the Nucleus design. Doing so will help us deliver both the actions and the chassis faster. After all, both products draw from the same scarce resources.

Another reason for the delay was my choice to deliberately delay the development, or at least alleviate the delivery pressure that I feel, in order to let the design mature a bit. Along the way, new ideas have been incorporated that I think you guys will like very much.

And, in the spirit of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, my focus on the chassis waxes and wains like the phases of the moon. I have difficulty persevering at things after the initial excitement of the design phase subsides. We are well into the production phase now and I am not as excited about it as I should be.

But now with Shot Show fast approaching, the pressure is on to deliver pre-orders and to have the final version of the chassis on display at the show. I will publish computer renderings soon. In the meantime, have a look at the pics below. What's shown is the main part of the production chassis after the first main machining operation. I've also attached a screen shot of the final design.

Specs:
  1. Weight is approximately 4.65 pounds as shown in the screen shot below
  2. Two inches of length-of-pull fast tool-less adjustment. By fast, I mean easily less that two seconds, basically on the fly.
  3. Additional one inch of length-of pull-adjustment requiring wrench
  4. Plenty of fast tool-less cheek piece adjustment up and down.
  5. Plenty cheek piece adjustment left and right, fore and aft, as well a some rotation in the horizontal plane.
  6. Rubber cheek piece stretched over underlying aluminum structure.
  7. Cheek-piece lock
  8. Ergonomic walnut piston grip enabling optimal hand placement for extremely fast bolt cycling.
  9. Vertically adjustable Kick-Eez recoil pad made specifically for the Xylo.
  10. Three serviceable and extremely durable hardened stainless steel swivel cups.
  11. Includes bag rider having four additional integrally machined swivel cups.
  12. M-LOK slots along both sides of the fore end.
  13. Integrally machine ARCA rail compatible with Area 419 ARCALOCK
  14. Integrally machined Anschutz rail
  15. Fully integrated pop-out ambi-bubble level that guys over 40 can actually see. Look just in front of the mag well.
  16. Supplemental recoil lug wedge locking device for immobilizing the action
  17. Mag latch that prevents magazine-bolt drag
  18. One-piece 7075 aluminum main body
  19. 3/8" diameter 6Al4V titanium length-of-pull slide rods
  20. Anodized finish
Options:
  1. Forward Picatinny optics mount
  2. Auxiliary bi-pod adapter
  3. Internal and external fore end weight kit
  4. Steel bag riders doubling as aft end weight kit
Thanks,
TedIMG_20191222_143510.jpg

1577053989934.png
 

phlegethon

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That’s really exciting to see. I understand well having varying enthusiasm for a project, but I really think you are on track to create something very uniquely beautiful and functional. Looking forward to seeing it in person one day.
 

Kimber.204

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@karagias thanks for the detailed Xylo update! I hope that you didn't take my comment above as a complaint or criticism. As an engineer I certainly understand streamlining your processes. And there is only so much time (human and CNC machine) to go around.

When the xylo chassis is ready.... I'll be ready for it!

Regards
Ross
 

craigos

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I tried logging in.... But I didn't see what you are describing.
When you log in go to your name and click "My Account" - and the page will show "My Documents" with 2 lists - "Sales Orders" and "Invoices". Under Invoices I noticed the invoice that was my Xylo downpayment says "waiting for payment" ... data 10/18.

Usually ARC requires payment on when the order can be fulfilled - sent a mail to them as this was weird.
 

Kiba

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Ted, a suggestion for a tool you may want to offer for the Archimedes...

When I first disassembled & reassembled my Archimedes bolt I used a deep socket that fit inside the bolt body to compress the firing pin spring and plunger inside the bolt body to insert and remove the take down dowel pin. While that worked fine, I thought I could make it easier.

I made this little tool out of 1.0" diameter stock delrin on the lathe. The center "pin" is 0.450" diameter x 1.150" long and fits inside the bolt body once you remove the pivoting handle. When you slip the bolt body over the tool, push the bolt down until the back of the bolt body contacts the base of the tool. This compresses the plunger and firing pin spring to the correct distance such that the takedown dowel pin easily slips into and out of the hole in the bolt body and corresponding groove in the plunger without having to jiggle everything around to try and line up the pin hole in the bolt body and the groove in the plunger.


IMG_20191222_170439__01 (1).jpg
 
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karagias

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Ted, a suggestion for a tool you may want to offer for the Archimedes...

When I first disassembled & reassembled my Archimedes bolt I used a deep socket that fit inside the bolt body to compress the firing pin spring and plunger inside the bolt body to insert and remove the take down dowel pin. While that worked fine, I thought I could make it easier.

I made this little tool out of 1.0" diameter stock delrin on the lathe. The center "pin" is 0.450" diameter x 1.150" long and fits inside the bolt body once you remove the pivoting handle. When you slip the bolt body over the tool, push the bolt down until the back of the bolt body contacts the base of the tool. This compresses the plunger and firing pin spring to the correct distance such that the takedown dowel pin easily slips into and out of the hole in the bolt body and corresponding groove in the plunger without having to jiggle everything around to try and line up the pin hole in the bolt body and the groove in the plunger.


View attachment 7207836
That's a good idea. Are you in the business of making parts? Contact us at our sales email address. Either Justin or I will get back to you. Thanks.

Ted
 

karagias

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@karagias thanks for the detailed Xylo update! I hope that you didn't take my comment above as a complaint or criticism. As an engineer I certainly understand streamlining your processes. And there is only so much time (human and CNC machine) to go around.

When the xylo chassis is ready.... I'll be ready for it!

Regards
Ross
I didn't take it as criticism only because implication as such wasn't strongly conveyed by your choice of words. But, if it was criticism, I would welcome it and I would thank you for it. The long time that people have waited for the chassis certainly warrants criticism.

Truth is vital. Love makes it bearable. I heard that last night while watching the movie The Two Popes. It's a wonderful message. The movie was great.

Ted
 

craigos

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I didn't take it as criticism only because implication as such wasn't strongly conveyed by your choice of words. But, if it was criticism, I would welcome it and I would thank you for it. The long time that people have waited for the chassis certainly warrants criticism.

Truth is vital. Love makes it bearable. I heard that last night while watching the movie The Two Popes. It's a wonderful message. The movie was great.

Ted
very nicely done sir! We could all take a lesson here.
 

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Integrally machine ARCA rail compatible with Area 419 ARCALOCK

Best news I've heard about this project (y)

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more collaboration between ARC and Area 419.
 

30-30

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I've got a question about bolt head interchangeability between the archimedes and nucleus gen1 action.

I have LA gen 1 nucleus and short action archimedes. if I want to pick up another bolt face size that i can use in both actions i should get a nucleus bolt head? To avoid bump on close issues with the nucleus correct?
 

hereinaz

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I've got a question about bolt head interchangeability between the archimedes and nucleus gen1 action.

I have LA gen 1 nucleus and short action archimedes. if I want to pick up another bolt face size that i can use in both actions i should get a nucleus bolt head? To avoid bump on close issues with the nucleus correct?
Correct. Nucleus has bigger radius on bolt head lug.
 
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sleeplz

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@karagias Ted, I bought into the Barloc system believing it would be a solid quick-change barrel option. Do you have any remedies to those customers that were expecting an attachment point that wouldn't shift zero?
 

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@karagias Ted, I bought into the Barloc system believing it would be a solid quick-change barrel option. Do you have any remedies to those customers that were expecting an attachment point that wouldn't shift zero?
There is a separate thread on the Barloc's shift issue. Maybe your question would be better suited there. But, I think even in that thread, there were no plans to change anything or address the shift.

I think LRI has an insert that you can use to return a barloc shouldered barrel to a normal shouldered barrel and fully remove the barloc from the equation.
 

CMP70306

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@karagias Ted, I bought into the Barloc system believing it would be a solid quick-change barrel option. Do you have any remedies to those customers that were expecting an attachment point that wouldn't shift zero?
Are you running a savage prefit barrel or a shouldered barrel? All of the the zero shift issues I’ve heard were directly attributed to shouldered barrels that allowed the top of the Barloc to touch thereby not imparting the full tension to the barrel threads. With the savage prefit you are able to adjust the barrel nut to ensure the full force is transferred to the threads.
 
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kthomas

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@karagias Ted, I bought into the Barloc system believing it would be a solid quick-change barrel option. Do you have any remedies to those customers that were expecting an attachment point that wouldn't shift zero?
Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.
 

flyer

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The resolution to the Barloc issue is that some shouldered barrels were cut wrong.

Ted determined that you could get a zero shift on a properly installed Barloc if you whack it hard enough but you get a zero shift on a shouldered barrel if you whack it that hard too.

Ted never represented it as a quick change barrel system. It's a barrel thread tensioner that only requires an allen key.

Ted has not changed the design because it works as intended (and just as well as a shouldered barrel) when installed according to the directions.
 

LongRifles Inc.

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Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.

I said this half a decade ago and got chastised for it. Torches, pitch forks, and noose.

Welcome to the gallows brother.
 
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phlegethon

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I said this half a decade ago and got chastised for it. Torches, pitch forks, and noose.

Welcome to the gallows brother.
Let me ask a question, not to stir the pot, but just because I know very little about this and have some experts in this thread. Do the systems like the LMT MWS, AI, and MRAD also have this kind of problem? They advertise their quick change capability pretty heavily, but I know those systems are also designed for it from the ground up and not retrofitted.
 

PowerstrokeOBX

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Let me ask a question, not to stir the pot, but just because I know very little about this and have some experts in this thread. Do the systems like the LMT MWS, AI, and MRAD also have this kind of problem? They advertise their quick change capability pretty heavily, but I know those systems are also designed for it from the ground up and not retrofitted.
I can only speak about AI. I only had a problem when I was hand tightening barrels on then and then locking them down. One barrel came loose one time. Since then I have been putting them on and torquing them down with a wrench and never seen any POI issues.

I could probably do the same thing with a out of the box 700 though. All my barrels have wrench flats on them and shoulder just like a 700 barrel.
 

Dthomas3523

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Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.
Agreed. Never understood why anyone would expect a exact return to zero with quick barrel swaps.

My AI’s are typically within .2 mil of zero, but still need the zero tweaked. Sometimes it will return to zero, but not every time.

I’m fine with that as I like the convenience of swapping to different rounds an also cleaning barrels while not on the action. But I understand that it’s not a complete return to zero and it’s a give take relationship.

Anyone expecting anything more is going to be disappointed.
 

leftyk82

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Anyone expecting anything more is going to be disappointed.
Indeed. Nomenclature and definitions are important but lost on so many.

The Barloc is, according to ARC's website, a 'quick-change barrel device'. The description goes on to say it 'enables one to remove and re-install a barrel using only a 5/32" hex key and a head space gauge'.

Does it accomplish these things? Yes

Does it come with guarantees? No

Are guarantees implied? Evidently
 
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sleeplz

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Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.
I should have chosen better words. When I say poi shifts, it's because of the barrel getting smacked. I'm fine with poi shifting after changing a barrel, but the fact that poi shifts once a barrel is smacked seems to go against what is advertised for the barloc. When I was buying the barloc, the advertisement never stated poi shifting due to barrel smack nor could a new guy getting into the sport ever realize this.
 

Ledzep

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Are you reading the replies directed towards you Sleeplz? If your POI is shifting because of the barrel being impacted, you're either smacking the shit out of your barrel, or your Barloc/barrel aren't set up tight, as many folks have already described to you.

It's hard to quantify an impact otherwise I would do a more scientific test, but everything I have done shows no POI shift unless you get really out of hand, shouldered barrel and barloc. That is entirely dependent on the Barloc being set up properly to provide the correct amount of preload. Likewise for a shouldered barrel to be torqued.

What I'm getting at is that the Barloc works. You have to get pretty extreme to knock POI around provided that your barrel is machined correctly and the barloc is installed correctly. So if you're having problems, either you're installing it incorrectly, or your barrel is machined incorrectly. If it's on the shallow side of chamber depth it can cause the Barloc to give insufficient clamping force at the proper headspace. Do you want to solve the problem or just whine to a manufacturer on a public forum and ignore free help? Plenty of folks willing to help a guy out if you'd take the time to describe what you have (Provide pics of how your barloc is set up, torque specs, barrel manufacturer, shouldered vs. jam nut, etc..) and what is happening.
 

lash

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Are you reading the replies directed towards you Sleeplz? If your POI is shifting because of the barrel being impacted, you're either smacking the shit out of your barrel, or your Barloc/barrel aren't set up tight, as many folks have already described to you.

It's hard to quantify an impact otherwise I would do a more scientific test, but everything I have done shows no POI shift unless you get really out of hand, shouldered barrel and barloc. That is entirely dependent on the Barloc being set up properly to provide the correct amount of preload. Likewise for a shouldered barrel to be torqued.

What I'm getting at is that the Barloc works. You have to get pretty extreme to knock POI around provided that your barrel is machined correctly and the barloc is installed correctly. So if you're having problems, either you're installing it incorrectly, or your barrel is machined incorrectly. If it's on the shallow side of chamber depth it can cause the Barloc to give insufficient clamping force at the proper headspace. Do you want to solve the problem or just whine to a manufacturer on a public forum and ignore free help? Plenty of folks willing to help a guy out if you'd take the time to describe what you have (Provide pics of how your barloc is set up, torque specs, barrel manufacturer, shouldered vs. jam nut, etc..) and what is happening.
Here, read in This thread what he said was really happening:


Post #39
sleeplz
41 minutes ago
I don't whack my barrel but I've noticed when I transport my rifle to ranges, my first shot would be off at 100 while the rest of the groups would be touching. I always attested it to me being the cold shooter. I actually bought the nucleus because of the Barloc but I wasn't informed that poi shifts were ok by Ted. I feel cheated, lesson learned.
 
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Winny94

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Let me ask a question, not to stir the pot, but just because I know very little about this and have some experts in this thread. Do the systems like the LMT MWS, AI, and MRAD also have this kind of problem? They advertise their quick change capability pretty heavily, but I know those systems are also designed for it from the ground up and not retrofitted.
I owned a DT - Quick barrel changes (ie.field changes ), just don't make sense for 99% of shooters. Rarely was the poi shift completely repeatable - close, but I'd never take a 500+ yd shot on game w/o confirming. Most fall in love with the novelty, but I've yet to meet any casaul shooter that utilizes it.
 
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flyer

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Ted never represented it as a quick change barrel system. It's a barrel thread tensioner that only requires an allen key.

Ted has not changed the design because it works as intended (and just as well as a shouldered barrel) when installed according to the directions.
I stand corrected on the "quick change" description, I was thinking of "switch barrel".

The Barloc is indeed much quicker to change barrels than barrel nut or shouldered barrels torqued to the same level because you don't need an action wrench or barrel vise. I don't think it is fast enough to call it quick because you should check headspace and take your time.

Ted never claimed return to zero when swapping barrels which is the usual measure of a "switch barrel".

A cold bore shot shooting to a different POI is not the same as a POI shift.

No one will guarantee that cold bore shots will shoot to the same POI as a warmed up gun, shouldered or not.
 

Tokay444

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Any barrel connection you side load with enough force will have a POI shift.
 

sleeplz

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Are you reading the replies directed towards you Sleeplz? If your POI is shifting because of the barrel being impacted, you're either smacking the shit out of your barrel, or your Barloc/barrel aren't set up tight, as many folks have already described to you.

It's hard to quantify an impact otherwise I would do a more scientific test, but everything I have done shows no POI shift unless you get really out of hand, shouldered barrel and barloc. That is entirely dependent on the Barloc being set up properly to provide the correct amount of preload. Likewise for a shouldered barrel to be torqued.

What I'm getting at is that the Barloc works. You have to get pretty extreme to knock POI around provided that your barrel is machined correctly and the barloc is installed correctly. So if you're having problems, either you're installing it incorrectly, or your barrel is machined incorrectly. If it's on the shallow side of chamber depth it can cause the Barloc to give insufficient clamping force at the proper headspace. Do you want to solve the problem or just whine to a manufacturer on a public forum and ignore free help? Plenty of folks willing to help a guy out if you'd take the time to describe what you have (Provide pics of how your barloc is set up, torque specs, barrel manufacturer, shouldered vs. jam nut, etc..) and what is happening.
I utilize a non-shouldered barrel and barloc, I utilize the method in the video below. I actually feel like I go much farther when it comes to torquing things down. I noticed when moving my gun around to the range my 1st shot would be off. After reading some threads and getting info on Barloc I can whack my barrel on a gun bench and watch the zero shift. My second shot will go back to zero. After my move, I'll try to take pics and video so you can see how hard the thwack is. Barrel is x caliber in 6.5 and non-shouldered.

 

gnochi

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I utilize a non-shouldered barrel and barloc, I utilize the method in the video below. I actually feel like I go much farther when it comes to torquing things down. I noticed when moving my gun around to the range my 1st shot would be off. After reading some threads and getting info on Barloc I can whack my barrel on a gun bench and watch the zero shift. My second shot will go back to zero. After my move, I'll try to take pics and video so you can see how hard the thwack is. Barrel is x caliber in 6.5 and non-shouldered.

See, I also followed the instructions with a non-shouldered barrel, with the addition of lubricating the slip surfaces, and I held zero when I knocked my rifle off a bench and it landed on the muzzle.

Are you positive the wrench could fit between the clamps before you torqued the bolt? Barring that, surface lubrication won’t hurt.
 

flyer

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I do things a bit different.

I remove the tensioner screw from the collar and install it from the other side. Then I use a dime or a feeler gauge in the gap so I can use the screw to spread the clamp (to the Barloc wrench thickness as in the instructions).

That will let you hand tighten the barrel nut and position everything. Then take out the screw and dime or feeler gauge and put the screw back in on the other side and tighten it as much as you can with the included allen key.

It's much less hassle doing it that way.
 

Northernjets

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I'll do it like gnochi above but also light tap around the collar and recheck the torque to make sure it's settled into its happy spot, like we do with the V-band clamps used in aviation. Beat it around the bush, and in and out of vehicles during hunting season with no issues.
 
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Tokay444

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I do things a bit different.

I remove the tensioner screw from the collar and install it from the other side. Then I use a dime or a feeler gauge in the gap so I can use the screw to spread the clamp (to the Barloc wrench thickness as in the instructions).

That will let you hand tighten the barrel nut and position everything. Then take out the screw and dime or feeler gauge and put the screw back in on the other side and tighten it as much as you can with the included allen key.

It's much less hassle doing it that way.
So, you do it differently, and have different results. Hmmm.
I think I see the “problem”.
 

flyer

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So, you do it differently, and have different results. Hmmm.
I think I see the “problem”.
I do the same thing, spreading the clamp before tightening it, I just do it in a way that doesn't spin stuff around before you tighten it.
 
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Kimber.204

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stole these from the Shot Show 2020 Thread...https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/shot-show-2020-thread.6982124/page-4

Hopefully @karagias is just going to ship one of those to me instead of carting it home from SHOT!! These look great Ted. I can't wait to start dry-firing in the basement with it. I've got a long way to go to get my High Master card in NRA Highpower....a more easily adjusted stock will help.
 

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CMP70306

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Yeah but he has been making the Ti ones since he made the original hunter Mausingfield for Griffin & Howe so I would have thought that he would have had a black coated pair for the show. Since they were in the white I didn’t know if he made an aluminum set quick to bring with him.
 

craigos

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thanks for sharing the pics, without the 6.5 guys we likely wont get a youtube video with ted