adequate first aid kits

Feb 21, 2013
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TEXAS
#1
I'm going to take a wilderness first aid class here pretty soon. I have been looking over the advanced first aid kits. What a mess, it's like buying/building an AR!!!

I'm looking for two kits to stay in the vehicles, and one in the go bag (Mystery Ranch 3 day)
I'm looking for the trauma type with splint, tourniquet.... With the run of the mill booboo kit too.


Thanks!
 

isofahunter

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 11, 2010
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Hill Country of Texas
#2
My two cents on the matter. A simple wilderness adventures kit for the simple stuff (cuts & scrape) then make a SHTF kit with tourniquets, sheers, packing, chest seals....... The SHTF kit is built around your skill level and kept in a separate kit. Post your course you will have a better feel for what you need. One last point I learned from my last class, spend the money on tourniquets do not buy the cheapest one, your life might depend on it.
 
Likes: spartan67
Jun 13, 2008
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#3
Are you taking a Wilderness First AID course?

Or are you staying for the entire week, and earning a Wilderness First RESPONDER cert?

I tell ya, if you can swing it, do the WFR. It's more. A LOT more. Way better than spending a bunch of money on a high speed kit, if you can only choose one or the other.


...and by the end of a WFR class, you won't be asking these questions...you'll just be putting together a kit of your own. NOLS. SOLO. WMI.

Remote Medical is a nice place to buy some gear: https://www.remotemedical.com/
 
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Feb 21, 2013
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#4
I want the WFR, scheduling right now is the challenge. One of the places does a two weekend class, I thought they would cover many of the contents, I just started looking at what could be needed. I was originally thinking one kit for the trauma and first aid, but like ISO mentioned having the two kits separated. I think this year I'll only be able to pull off the one day course.
 

Yellowhammer

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 9, 2018
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North Alabama
#5
My $0.02:

Don't overthink it and get a bunch of stuff you won't ever use or won't know how to use.

Gloves
Shears
2x Tourniquet (SOF-TW)
Israeli Bandages
Quick Clot Gauze
Decompression Needle (ask them to train you on it)
Benadryl capsules (allergic reactions)
Baby Aspirin (heart attacks)
Whistle
Couple of chem lights

Buy from well known, mainstream vendors. Too much knockoff stuff out there.
 

Travclem

Dr. Dickweed
Jul 14, 2013
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Lubbock, TX
#7
My $0.02:

Don't overthink it and get a bunch of stuff you won't ever use or won't know how to use.

Gloves
Shears
2x Tourniquet (SOF-TW)
Israeli Bandages
Quick Clot Gauze
Decompression Needle (ask them to train you on it)
Benadryl capsules (allergic reactions)
Baby Aspirin (heart attacks)
Whistle
Couple of chem lights

Buy from well known, mainstream vendors. Too much knockoff stuff out there.
You want full strength Aspirin (325mg) for MIs, not baby.
 

Yellowhammer

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 9, 2018
131
32
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North Alabama
#10
The important part is having it in the backwoods with you when needed. I've seen a life saved by administering (a lot) of Benadryl until rescue can get to them. People, who have previously not had a reaction, will eat trail mix or get stung and it gets bad very fast.

Same for the aspirin and heart attacks: some aspirin and a knowledge of signs/symptoms & CPR are much more likely to be useful than some of the odd stuff you'll find in some first aid kits. People having hearts attacks in the field is my #1 worry in the woods.
 

Yellowhammer

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 9, 2018
131
32
28
North Alabama
#11
Where can one pick up a few field trauma Kit's, latest Issue?
I'm all for saving money but for stuff like this stick to well known vendors. I usually just go to https://www.chinookmed.com (no affiliation to myself).

My opinion is you are better off buying individual components or very basic kits and supplementing them as necessary.

Gloves
Shears
2x Tourniquet (SOF-TW)
Israeli Bandages
Quick Clot Gauze
Decompression Needle (training required)
Benadryl capsules (allergic reactions)
Baby Aspirin (heart attacks)
Whistle
Couple of chem lights
Chest seal
 
Nov 6, 2013
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Southern, IN
#12
. . . People having hearts attacks in the field is my #1 worry in the woods.
Hate to say it, people having a "Heart Attack" in the woods, are going to die in the woods!

There is little to nothing that you are going to do short of a full ALS treatment protocol and immediate transport to a hospital that is going to make a difference. Outside of a hospital, the best case survival rate is LESS THAN 10%, some studies say LESS THAN 6%. If you add delayed transport from the woods to a hospital, forget about it!

You can try Asprin, and try CPR, because something is better than nothing, but I would be a lot more worried about VERY RAPID TRANSPORT.

Just an FYI.
 
Likes: HeavyAssault
Nov 6, 2013
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Southern, IN
#13
FYI on Hemostats, there are 2 primary types of Hemostatic Agents in use:

PROCOAGULANT SUPPLIMENTORS / KAOLIN BASED (works with the body’s natural clotting process)
- Quickclot Combat Gauze

*NOTE! These require the bodies clotting factors in order to work. There are at least 4 situations where this could be a problem:
- Heparinized Blood. People that are taking blood thinners.
- Hemophilia. People that naturally lack clotting factors.
- Hypothermia. The bodies clotting factors do not work.
- Clotting Factor Loss. Someone who has lost too much blood.

MUCOADHESIVE / CHITOSAN BASED (creates a physical adhesion/bond within wound site)
- Celox / Celox Rapid
- Chito-SAM / ChitoFlex
- HemCon

These work independently to form a clot, so they do NOT have the limitation of relying on clotting factors.

Celox Rapid is GREAT!
http://www.celoxmedical.com/celox-rapid-training-video/?site=NA
Most other agents require 3-5 minutes of direct pressure to get a clot to form, but Celox Rapid can work in as little as 1 minute.

Also look at the RevMedX products:
X Gauze - https://www.revmedx.com/xgauze/
X Stat - https://www.revmedx.com/xstat/
These are great for really nasty open bleeders, especially in the junctional areas. They have mini-sponges that expand to fill voids and put direct mechanical pressure on bleeders.

Any questions on the above, fire away.
 
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Nov 6, 2013
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Southern, IN
#14
Nov 6, 2013
493
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Southern, IN
#15
Don't forget, as much as you need "stuff", you need "TRAINING!"

Good place to start for training, especially if you can't afford it, or can't get to it.
https://www.naemt.org/education/naemt-tccc/tccc-mp-guidelines-and-curriculum

Also remember MARCH!
Massive Life Threatening Bleeds
- Extremities = Tourniquets
- Junctional Areas (hips, shoulders, neck, etc) = Hemostats & Wound Packing
- Anything Else = "Bright Lights & Cold Steel" (they need surgery ASAP!)

Tourniquets
https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/SOF-Tactical-Tourniquet-Wide
https://www.rescue-essentials.com/combat-application-tourniquet-c-a-t-tactical-black-gen-7/
https://www.rescue-essentials.com/sam-xt-tourniquet/

Hemostats & Bandages See Above

Airway & Respirations
- Chest Injuries = Chest Seal (vented are best). Needle Decompression later.
- Airway = Reposition, Insure Airway is Open. Nasopharyngeal Airway.
- Respirations = Breath for them if needed

Chest Seals
https://www.rescue-essentials.com/hyfin-vent-chest-seal-twin-pack/

Circulation
- Skin Color & Temp. Pale & Cold = Shock = Bad!
- Pulse = Distal pulse they are good for the moment. No Distal, they are starting to crash.

Hypothermia
- Temp = MUST keep them WARM!
https://www.rescue-essentials.com/hypothermia-1/

That is 16-24 hours of training, so there is obviously more to it!

Vendors I use:
https://www.rescue-essentials.com/

https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/

https://www.chinookmed.com/

https://www.narescue.com/

*NOTE!
- There are a ton of "Chineesee Knock Offs", buy from a reputable seller.
- Almost all vendors will give you some type of a First Responder / Mil discount if you talk to them.

Once again, questions, fire away!
(I have 8 years active duty with 3 deployments, and 24 years working on the street, with 8 years as a Tactical Medic)
 
Feb 21, 2013
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#16
Thanks for the response everyone, this is what I wanted to see what others that actually do it are carrying, and the reputable vendors. I have a bit of extra cash right now and can buy supplies, my schedule and deciding what classes to take and when is actually the larger challenge.

Chinook has a bunch of good stuff from what I've seen. I bought some booboo kits off Amazon but will buy the real supplies from Chinook. I also didn't want to pay more from someone as they might be a .gov/.mil supplier and seem to get a premium for the same name brand I can get somewhere else. Looks like right now I'll just be able to swing the weekend course. I'm already CPR and booboo trained.
 
Feb 21, 2013
1,082
180
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TEXAS
#17
Thanks for the response everyone, this is what I wanted to see what others that actually do it are carrying, and the reputable vendors. I have a bit of extra cash right now and can buy supplies, my schedule and deciding what classes to take and when is actually the larger challenge.

Chinook has a bunch of good stuff from what I've seen. I bought some booboo kits off Amazon but will buy the real supplies from Chinook. I also didn't want to pay more from someone as they might be a .gov/.mil supplier and seem to get a premium for the same name brand I can get somewhere else. Looks like right now I'll just be able to swing the weekend course. I'm already CPR and booboo trained.
 
Sep 7, 2011
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#19
LRshooter
Great info. Thanks for posting it all up.

Couple thoughts.

CAT is a one handed application so you could put it on yourself if needed. Had a work acquaintance who’s life was saved when a drunk delusional guy started shooting 4 yrs back and he had a CAT. No one could get to him for several minutes (more than 10) and he was bleeding like stink.
I carry CAT in my smaller kits and SOF-T wide in my bag for others.

On hemostatic dressings:
The kaolin work great. On live anesthetized pigs they still had the fastest clotting times of all tested, including celox, though they were normothermic, just cut deep, and not on any thinners (including ASA). This was a sizeable study about 3-4 yrs ago
The issues you listed are very real. Most I see die with these issues have internal injuries only fixed by a surgeon and many still dont make it......

What are the possible long term issues with the non-kaolin based dressings? Used to be it damaged tissue and required extensive debridement and had more problems so many went away from it.
Just questions I have, looking to learn new info I may not see.

Training trumps toys. Always.
 
Nov 6, 2013
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Southern, IN
#20
Thanks!

Nothing wrong with the Procoagulant Supplimentors / Kaolin Based Hemostats like Quickclot Combat Gauze, other than the issues that I pointed out. The Military has had great success with it because they have younger healthy people, so as long as it is applied quick enough, and hypothermia is avoided, it works great.

Sorry, I probably should have covered things in more detail. There is actually more out the other than the 2 PRIMARY hemostat families that I listed. There is also:
FACTOR CONCENTRATORS / ZEOLITE BASED
- Original QuickClot (came in granular form)
This was the poweder/granuals that was some REAL NASTY STUFF! It caused an exothermic reaction that caused tissue burns/damage. It was also hell to clean up the wounds. If you run across it, DO NOT USE IT!

SMECTITE BASED
- Wound Stat
This was shown to cause clots in the bloodstream away from the injury site. Interestingly the Military approved it for use, and then turned around and pulled it back out of service a couple of months later. Personally, I would NOT use it.

powdahound76 one of these 2 products is probably the stuff that you are referencing. There are NO issues with the Chito based products, to include Celox-A which is a granular product. (https://www.rescue-essentials.com/celox-a/)


NEW ITEMS
NUSTAT
which is also a PROCOAGULANT SUPPLIMENTOR but it utilizes "Hemafiber Technology" (cellulose and silica) vs. Kaolin
https://www.rescue-essentials.com/nustat-tactical-2-x-36-hemostatic-dressing/

Also FYI, the MUCOADHESIVE / CHITOSAN BASED products can come from a shellfish precursor. However, there has NOT BEEN a documented case of an allergic reaction.

Any other questions on anything post them up.
 

AMGtuned

Sergeant of the Hide
May 6, 2018
197
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Warren, ME
#21
@LRShooter101 , that is top notch information. Many thanks, there should be more people like you willing to give your time to help educate on what is probably the most important part of what we do. I know that as soon as I got deeper in to high power rifle, and hiking long distances away in order to shoot, my first aid gear increased exponentially. Currently waiting on a "bullets and bandages" type course to further my knowledge. Great thread, great info.
 
#22
Education is SO much more than equipment while they do go hand-in-hand. I'd suggest you take more classes before buying any gear. The extra classes will provide you a greater knowledge base. Then you can start seeing the "bigger" picture. It's not always having the cool guy medpack that saves the day.

If you can't make a sufficient tourniquet from anything you are wearing, you don't need to be attempting to provide any sort of first aid.

Splints are SUPER easy to make with the elements of the environment around you. Short of walking the barren desert you should be able to find something to help with a splint.

I'd argue that a great quality outdoor single edge knife is just as important as any bandage you could buy. You can't cut down a tree limb with a pair of scissors/shears (maybe...LOL) but I can do that and more with a good knife. BTW most people already are carrying a knife right?

If learning is too much just spend the cash on whatever kit you can afford.

This guy made it out 3 miles without all the bandages and such. Bear attack guy Pretty sure he doctored up a bit at the truck but he walked out tore up.
 

pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
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#23
Something to think about....

Had a co worker get cut up while at work.

We are issued one of those band style tourniquets in the sealed envelope - Swat-t.

He let it be known that due to the amount of blood he was covered with he couldnt get the package open to self aid with the Swat-t.

Thinking about that unsure how good it would have been for him trying to stretch slippery rubber with that much blood.

Luckily he had someone else close by that gave him aid and he is fine.

I have one of these in my first aid kit and I think I may need one or two more stashed nearby....

https://www.chinookmed.com/item/05182/m2-inc.-tactical-ratcheting-medical-tourniquet-rmt/1.html

Super easy one hand application.

Anyone know of any issues with this gear?
 
Nov 6, 2013
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Southern, IN
#24
Couple of points:
- They never caught on in the "tactical world" because they are "bulky" to try and pack/carry. That ratchet mechanism adds a lot of size/thickness to the design. If being able to get your tourniquet into a small package/shape is important to you, then this is not what you want.

- They run around $10 more than a typical tourniquet, so for large purchases they can be less cost effective.

- The ratchet works great if the tourniquet is stationary. This means you either have to hold it, or you have to get it on very tight (which you should do). If it is loose, and you try to ratchet it, it will just spin around the extremity.

I have 2 of them in my big field pack, and I would not hesitate to use them, but for the reasons above, I do not carry them on my personal daily duty gear.

The ratchet is nice, but I have never seen anyone with proper training have any trouble using the Windless models effectively.

Sorry, but IMHO, the "rubber band" tourniquets are junk to reliably stopping arterial bleeds! I have some, but I use them to go over the top of a bandage to create more direct pressure.

*EDIT - almost forgot, you have to make sure that the ratchet teeth stay clear of debris. Saw a training scenario where blood got on the tourniquet during application, and it was allowed to touch the ground, which then picked up a bunch of dirt and grass. When the user attempted to engage the ratchet mechanism it jammed up on that debris. The user released it, and was able to get it cleared, and back in working order. He was NOT happy!
 
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pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
7,833
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MA
#25
Couple of points:
- They never caught on in the "tactical world" because they are "bulky" to try and pack/carry. That ratchet mechanism adds a lot of size/thickness to the design. If being able to get your tourniquet into a small package/shape is important to you, then this is not what you want.

- They run around $10 more than a typical tourniquet, so for large purchases they can be less cost effective.

- The ratchet works great if the tourniquet is stationary. This means you either have to hold it, or you have to get it on very tight (which you should do). If it is loose, and you try to ratchet it, it will just spin around the extremity.

I have 2 of them in my big field pack, and I would not hesitate to use them, but for the reasons above, I do not carry them on my personal daily duty gear.

The ratchet is nice, but I have never seen anyone with proper training have any trouble using the Windless models effectively.

Sorry, but IMHO, the "rubber band" tourniquets are junk to reliably stopping arterial bleeds! I have some, but I use them to go over the top of a bandage to create more direct pressure.
Thank you.

The "bulkiness" is the first thing I notice about them and to fit it in my IFAK I unpacked it and halfmooned it around the inside of the bag

P5037913.JPG


It can be ripped out pretty easily once the bag is ripped open.

My issue is training, I dont get real training and dont do enough on my own. What you see in the picture puts me about 1000 percent more prepared than my coworkers though. Perhaps not smart but its the way it is.

I will be putting a TQ on my duty belt soon, been compiling a wishlist at Chinook, only problem is with all the other shit on there I may need to gain weight to obtain the belt space.

Id like to go with the ratchet as in my opinion it just seeks easier, works like my ski boots, works like my snowshoes, works like my roller blades....I have a little muscle memory with it....but its bulkiness may be an issue.