A woman was murdered in her apt close to where we live. We currently don't own any EDC equipment and would like advice -concerned about wife's safety

richthe1

New Hide Member
Mar 31, 2018
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#1
**I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask this. I thought about putting it on the Bear Pit, but decided this forum might more closely relate to my question.**

A woman was out walking her dog and a man followed her into her apartment and stabbed her to death. This happened around 8pm at night, so it was not even that late. My wife works in the ER so she gets home at all hours of the day, and it happened close enough to where we live to have us concerned. The Hide has been super helpful on questions I have asked in other forums, and I would appreciate any insight you could offer here.

About Us:
(1) My wife works in the ER. My main concern is when she will come home to our apartment by herself late at night after her shift is over. Other times would be when I am out of town and she needs to take the dog out, etc. The large majority of the time she will only be carrying to/from her vehicle to our apartment and when she is around the apartment complex by herself. She might also take it running.
(2) Recently Moved to Texas (this might be relevant for the legal question I have)
(3) Currently do not own a Handgun or have a Concealed Carry Permit (called License to Carry (LTC) in Texas). Plan to get both ASAP.

Questions:
(1)
What items should I purchase for my wife? She is 5'8" 150lbs. These are what I am considering:
Handgun: Glock 19 Gen 4. She liked the feel of this one the best, but I want to see if she can find a subcompact she likes - carrying the G19 might be a little big on her. G26 or G43 are other options. Maybe P320 subcompact. The P365 also looks great on paper, but I'm concerned about reliability issues.
Holster: CrossBreed Belly Band. Possibly Alien Gear Shapeshift Pocket or Vedder Pocket Locker (any similar you'd recommend? Again, she won't be wearing a carry belt)
Self Defense Ammo: Federal HST
Practice Ammo: Probably the cheapest brass cased ammo available at the time (does it matter?)
Car Safe: ShotLock Handgun 200M Solo-Vault (Mechanical)
Insurance: Maybe?
Cleaning Equipment: Using a one-piece coated cleaning rod in precision rifles is critical. Are there similar rules in handgun cleaning I need to know? Or is a generic cleaning kit is okay?

(2)
Is it legal for my wife to keep a concealed carry locked up in her car while she is at work? Since she works at an ER she parks on hospital property. I looked up the law but I am still unclear:

Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 46.035
"(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder's person:

...
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;"

Does the phrase "on or about the license holder's person" mean that a locked up handgun in her car would apply? It does appear she could request for written authorization from the hospital.

(3)
While we are waiting on a LTC permit, is Sabre Red Pepper Spray the best means of protection?

(4)
The apartment complex we live in is relatively well lit - even at night. But should I get Night Sights? A Flashlight? Reflex Sight?


Anything else we should consider? Thank you for your help!
 
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W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
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#3
A couple notes for you:

Your wife works at a medical facility, so she will have to leave her gun in the car with a carry license or without.
Legally she can keep her gun out of sight, locked up in her car, however if it was to come to light, there may be an issue with her employer, I would suggest that she gets a carry license as soon as possible as it gives you extra protections for locking your gun up in your car in the parking lot regardless of what most classes of employers say.

Don't bother trying to get permission from the hospital to carry in the hospital, unless it's a small place it will cause trouble for her and the answer will be no in any case.

Car safe... I'm going to say probably not needed unless you leave the gun in the car overnight which I don't think would be the plan.

She can currently have the gun concealed in her car and then carry it unseen from the car to the apartment and from the apartment to the car, however once again... get a carry license as soon as possible because without it she can't legally carry a handgun around while walking the dog without one.

Till she gets her license, have her get a nice sturdy fixed blade dagger that measures no more than 5.5 inches from the tip to the hilt, have her carry it where it's not seen easily but she can draw it quickly.

Pepper spray is fine, but most likely she is not going to get a chance to spray it nicely in some attackers face, but could be a possibility if there is a bit of distance.

Get a bigger dog that is more likely to protect the owner against attack if you just have a little ankle biter.

Situational awareness for her would be a huge part, look around and make sure you are not followed into the apartment.
Make sure she locks the door immediately upon entering without fail.

For carrying when she gets her license, you need to see what she feels like is most comfortable depending on her style of dressing.
5ft 8inches and 150 pounds is a fairly decent sized frame, I'd suggest something mid sized but single stack or slim grip. Something she can really get a good grip on and feel comfortable with. A lot of subcompacts are not fun to shoot for practice much and a bit finicky to manipulate in stress situations.

One suggestion I might have is you look at the Ruger LCR in .357 (has a better trigger), but carry .38 special. Get the one with the Hogue grip.
She can carry that in a pocket easily and it's powerful enough to handle just about anything. Then she could always carry a bigger full or mid sized one in her purse or car.
 

richthe1

New Hide Member
Mar 31, 2018
65
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#7
She can currently have the gun concealed in her car and then carry it unseen from the car to the apartment and from the apartment to the car, however once again... get a carry license as soon as possible because without it she can't legally carry a handgun around while walking the dog without one.
Thanks for that! I had no idea that she could carry between her vehicle and our apartment.

I don't know much about knives, but I will look into that.

All the info you've provided has been very helpful. There's quite a rabbit hole to go down when it comes to EDC equipment. I'll look into your suggestions and will let you know if I have any questions.

On handgun choice, I would take her to a gun shop that has a shooting range with rentals. Let her find what fits/feels best.
I will plan to do that this week - thanks for the advice!

Glock 43 9mm with 147 HST. Should be perfect, thin, light, easy to conceal. Much lighter and thinner than G19. I carry mine with +2 Hyve mag extensions way more than my G19's
Hadn't thought about +2 Hyve mag extensions. I assume they don't affect the reliability?
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
#9
Glock 43 9mm with 147 HST. Should be perfect, thin, light, easy to conceal. Much lighter and thinner than G19. I carry mine with +2 Hyve mag extensions way more than my G19's
Second that, or a S&W Shield (non- safety switch model). I too carry the 147s in the smaller 9s .

The gun is only part of the equation. She needs to be able to draw her weapon and fire at damn near point blank or with an attacker on top of her. Training at 25 yards on a warm sunny day is not going to cut it . My students empty a full weapon, from retention into a target that they are touching, on the first day. Most ask if they can do it again.......

Mindset
Situational awareness (avoidance, takes priority)
Access & Deployment of weapon under stress
Violence of action
 

padom

SuperMod
Staff member
Mar 13, 2013
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#10
Second that, or a S&W Shield (non- safety switch model). I too carry the 147s in the smaller 9s .

The gun is only part of the equation. She needs to be able to draw her weapon and fire at damn near point blank or with an attacker on top of her. Training at 25 yards on a warm sunny day is not going to cut it . My students empty a full weapon, from retention into a target that they are touching, on the first day. Most ask if they can do it again.......

Mindset
Situational awareness (avoidance, takes priority)
Access & Deployment of weapon under stress
Violence of action
Exactly. Sign her up for 0-5 and point shooting classes. Completely different than shooting with 2 hands from a square range. Most 0-5, terrorist interdiction, active shooter classes will do training with airsoft. You'll really see how people do when being shot at.
 
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richthe1

New Hide Member
Mar 31, 2018
65
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#11
Exactly. Sign her up for 0-5 and point shooting classes. Completely different than shooting with 2 hands from a square range. Most 0-5, terrorist interdiction, active shooter classes will do training with airsoft. You'll really see how people do when being shot at.
Thanks for the advice! What is a 0-5 class?
 

padom

SuperMod
Staff member
Mar 13, 2013
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#12
It's a class that teaches you what and how to handle a shooting scenario between and 0 and 5' where most defensive shoots take place statistically

Getting off the X, point shooting. Where, how to carry your concealed weapon, what is faster. You may not believe it but someone running at you from 5' will get to you every time before you can draw and fire. Just a lot to learn and practice if you arent trained in those scenarios.
 

diverdon

Online Training Member
Dec 21, 2011
3,039
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#13
While you don't mention your employment it seems that you are sometimes not able to be home when your wife is so it is probably a safe assumption that you have a job also. The first thing on my list in your situation would be to seek housing in a neighborhood where this kind of thing was much less frequent.

As far as the woman who was murdered near you, the particular facts will matter to you. Was she involved in drugs? Was she killed by a family member? Or was it someone targeting a woman home alone. Only in the last set if facts is you wife in more danger than you knew about before this happened.

It is great to have guns, and it is even better to know how to use them. Yet living where you are nearly certain that you will never have to is very nice to.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#14
I think a gun would work best for deterrent value in that case which is lost when concealed.

Probably not an issue but you should make sure she carries a cell phone at all times and possibly a tracking app.

Next, self defense classes to teach situational awareness and a good kick to the balls. Maybe cubaton training?

I hesitate on the knife because you don't want your wife to get in a knife fight even if she is well trained, knife fights are just bad news.

I think the thing trainers say is if you have a gun going against a knife and you don't go for your gun before the knife attacker is within 21', you're going to get cut.

If the attacker has the element of surprise, she's screwed so situational awareness is #1 and being able to fight back a little is next.

For her particular situation, I'm not sure a gun would help much against the threat you describe and if it gave a false sense of security, it might be counterproductive.
 
Feb 13, 2017
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#15
1. Move to a safer zip code. Over all the least expensive option on so many levels.

2. Situational awareness training.

3. Carry a bright LED flashlight at all times.

4. Learn more about Serious Mistakes committed with Negative Consequences by well intentioned self-defense carrying individuals.....join us here:

https://www.facebook.com/ATLFirearms/

5. Research the legal / emotional cost of participating in a civilian gun battle.

6. Choose a proper revolver for her with a professional trainer. The cost of thousands of rounds of training is less than a 60 minute legal consultation and bondsman fees.

7. Know your local firearm carry / deployment laws.
 

AMGtuned

Sergeant of the Hide
May 6, 2018
163
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Warren, ME
#16
Lots of valuable information here. +1 on training/classes. My wife does the "tactical nerd" thing with me when we shoot. Pretend scenarios, reload drills, one handed, etc. I've been beat up, but she doesn't need to find out what that feels like. She carrys a Glock 42 with Federal personal defense ammo, and a pinky extension, a pink monkey fist I made (great defensive weapon IMO), sabre pepper, and we own Pit Bull dogs (hate saying that because they're the best dogs ever, until you cross their momma), and we live in Maine. Best of luck to the OP and family, no one should ever live in fear.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#17
It bothers me a bit when people suggest a particular gun for women or as above a "propper revolver".

They should figure out what works for them and if it's a carry piece it needs to be a gun they will carry.

I'm not a huge fan of revolvers. I should probably get a Dirty Harry .44 Magnum just in case David Hogg is successful in putting S&W out of business but I doubt I would ever carry one unless I was worried about Bear.

I like 1911s a lot but if I carried, it would probably be a Glock.

For a smaller woman it might actually be better to carry a full size gun in 9mm so the recoil is easy to manage instead of a high power compact where you have to worry about hanging on.

Some women will have plenty of grip strength and prioritize convenience of carry with a compact gun.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to know what a woman will prefer in a gun so let them figure it out by trying out lots of them in the hand and on the range.
 

Campguy308

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 26, 2018
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NE Texas
#19
A lot of things to consider with this subject. Opinions vary as you can see. I'll give my 2 cents regarding a carry option that works for ME. I prefer a simple low profile IWB kydex holster that COMPLETELY COVERS THE TRIGGER GUARD. The advantage of the simple low profile kydex style holster is that it's easy to take on and off, and provides a low profile holster to protect the gun when it's not being carried, such as in the glove compartment, or at the home storage location.. If she wants to carry while walking the dog, she can grab it from the storage location in the home, and slip it insider her waistband without having to jump through hoops and undress to get it on. When she gets back home, simply slip it off and return to storage. Same thing for the vehicle. The smaller holsters fit easily in vehicle storage compartments. I have the big hybrid style IWB holsters with the leather backing, and while they are nice and extremely comfortable, they are hard to get on and off, and are too big to use for vehicle storage.

Second, do not buy a gun that's too big because it won't be carried. Do not buy a gun that's too small, because they are sometimes hard to shoot, and inadequate in some cases.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
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#20
Next, self defense classes to teach situational awareness and a good kick to the balls. Maybe cubaton training?
I hesitate on the knife because you don't want your wife to get in a knife fight even if she is well trained, knife fights are just bad news.
If she can't legally carry a gun yet, and she is worried about being attacked and stabbed.. I'm pretty sure a decent knife that you can draw fast and know how to hold well at least gives you a better chance of being the party in the knife fight that gets to the hospital and lives, than going at it bare hands and hoping for the best.

A correctly pulled blade of decent size can easily force an attacker to at the very least modify their plan / movement as nobody likes getting their neck/face sliced up, held right it takes skill from an attacker to take it away without getting cut. It also give you a way to make attackers not truly committed to the attack, pause and think if it's worth getting cut up. You'll be surprised how many folks both "good" and "bad" are made very uncomfortable by an aggressively held knife that looks like it can do serious damage.

If you can carry a gun, it is WAY preferred, but till she gets her license, she can't legally carry one.

Sure try kicking the balls if the guy is an idiot... I figured out how to avoid that easily when I was a kid in a bit of "coed" rough and tumble games. But you do it to somebody used to it, you'll find yourself flat on your back faster than you know.
Which now means you are actually grappling with them and best hope they don't understand how to act.


I'm not a huge fan of revolvers. I should probably get a Dirty Harry .44 Magnum just in case David Hogg is successful in putting S&W out of business but I doubt I would ever carry one unless I was worried about Bear..
It's popular to dismiss revolvers, but when it comes to something that is with you constantly, and can be fired easily under stress, at near contact range and from all kinds of pockets, bags, jackets etc. it's a very valid choice. Especially something like the Ruger LCR in .357/.38 special with the Hogue grip, smaller & lighter than most compact semi autos, a much better grip than most pistols that stays in your hand, a bit more power than your average short barrel 9mm and no worries about jamming.

Not the only choice by any means & possibly not the only gun you'll carry, but if you are surprised at close range, it's easy to shoot under stress. If you pull the trigger 5 times and the threat is still there, you need to be getting off the X and get to something a lot more powerful.

I agree with many that if you have to be walking dogs, and your current dogs are small, you might want to consider adding another one that is big enough and likely enough to get between you and an attacker.
 

richthe1

New Hide Member
Mar 31, 2018
65
12
8
#21
A lot of things to consider with this subject. Opinions vary as you can see. I'll give my 2 cents regarding a carry option that works for ME. I prefer a simple low profile IWB kydex holster that COMPLETELY COVERS THE TRIGGER GUARD. The advantage of the simple low profile kydex style holster is that it's easy to take on and off, and provides a low profile holster to protect the gun when it's not being carried, such as in the glove compartment, or at the home storage location.. If she wants to carry while walking the dog, she can grab it from the storage location in the home, and slip it insider her waistband without having to jump through hoops and undress to get it on. When she gets back home, simply slip it off and return to storage. Same thing for the vehicle. The smaller holsters fit easily in vehicle storage compartments. I have the big hybrid style IWB holsters with the leather backing, and while they are nice and extremely comfortable, they are hard to get on and off, and are too big to use for vehicle storage.

Second, do not buy a gun that's too big because it won't be carried. Do not buy a gun that's too small, because they are sometimes hard to shoot, and inadequate in some cases.
She typically wears shorter athletic shorts without pockets, or scrubs on work days. She couldn’t wear an IWB with an outfit like that, correct? I’m trying to find the best holster where she doesn’t have to change what she typically wears.
Do you have an opinion on the CrossBreed Belly Band? Covering the trigger guard is super important to me as well and from my limited research this looks like the only Belly Band style that does that. The Kydex holster it comes with is also easy to take on/off.
 

Campguy308

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 26, 2018
163
59
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NE Texas
#22
She typically wears shorter athletic shorts without pockets, or scrubs on work days. She couldn’t wear an IWB with an outfit like that, correct? I’m trying to find the best holster where she doesn’t have to change what she typically wears.
Do you have an opinion on the CrossBreed Belly Band? Covering the trigger guard is super important to me as well and from my limited research this looks like the only Belly Band style that does that. The Kydex holster it comes with is also easy to take on/off.
It would probably be difficult to carry IWB in scrubs or thin athletic shorts in the kind of holster I described. I don't have any experience with the belly band type holsters, so I can't comment on those. However, one thing I have learned over the years is that if carrying becomes too complicated or uncomfortable, you will abandon it. Most people typically end up with a drawer full of holsters before they finally settle on something.
 
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THEIS

Sergeant of the Hide
Nov 27, 2017
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#23
Hi,

Ok so it appears you are speaking about the killing of Lin Wang at the Churchill on the Park apartments. Is that correct?

I only ask because it shows that awareness of surroundings play a much bigger part in your wifes safety than her having a carry pistol.

I am assuming your wife works at Medical City. If so then do not even bother with attempting to deal with her carrying in the hospital. They are not going to allow it.
So you have her have the hospital security staff escort her to her vehicle coming and leaving her shift. That way she is escorted to and from her "safe" place.
Once she gets home have her back in to the garage and/or parking space and do not turn car ignition off until she is certain that nobody followed her and/or the garage door is down.
When she gets out of her car, NEVER ever get out with both hands full. It just makes an easy target to control.
When she goes to walk the dog upon getting home from work. More than likely she is going to have her hair in a pony tail of some sort...take that shit out. That provides way to easy of a control handle for someone. Instead have her wrap her hair under a hat while walking the dog.

Awareness trumps having to react to a bad situation!!
So until she gets firearms training, have her practice awareness. She needs to know if someone has been in her house since she left. She needs to know how/what you left the house like. Both of you should make a habit to vacuum all rugs in your house before you leave so that if either of you get home and see footprints on the bathroom or kitchen rug then you know someone has been and/or is in your house so you need to get out. Someone could be hiding in your house waiting on her to get in shower, etc etc.

The list goes on and on,

Sincerely,
Theis
 

MK20

New Hide Member
Apr 17, 2018
51
13
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Up North
#24
First of all, if you just learn to heighten your situational awareness above the normal person's you will prevent 99% of all problems.
For the remaining 1%:

I recommend a Glock 43 or 42 depending on her recoil sensitiveness (preference to the 43 - 9mm). Other guns might fit her well, but I KNOW that those two will work well. I have a 43 and it is the easiest pistol to carry I have ever owned. Don't go with the Sig. I have heard of problems with the drop safety. I have owned a Shield and while it worked fine it was a little awkward for me and seemed cheaper built than the glock. I have used Glocks on 3 continents in all weather conditions and all carry configurations. They ALWAYS work. If you end up getting stovepipes, remember to clean the extractor every 1K rounds and that problem will go away. That is the only issue I have ever had with a Glock. I am not a "Glock fanboy". I shoot 1911s much better than my glocks for accuracy. But 15 rounds in my 19 vs 8 in my 1911 says a lot. Any person who thinks that 8 rounds is a comfortable number is in my opinion a little confident. Yes, the 43 only carries 6 but you are trading capacity for concealability and accepting a little more risk based on the low probability of an unfortunate event.

Pocket carry sucks. If you try it and it goes poorly, it looks like you are jerking off while someone is trying to kill you. Not appealing. I personally use Raven Concealment Vanguard clip type holsters for deep conceal carry and love them, but I wear a belt most times. This holster can also be modified with 550 cord to tie into pants that don't have a belt so that when the gun is drawn the holster will pop off and dangle from the belt loop or waistband. The big leather pancake holsters are ok, but they get really hot in a Texas summer. For your wife the gun HAS TO BE comfortable enough that she forgets it is there as this is the only way that a gun gets carries regularly and not left at home one day because it is "too hot", or it "shows through my outfit because it is too big" (Glock 19 on your 150 lb wife). If you get a holster like the Raven Vanguard, get a full size holster as well so that she can practice drawing and shooting more easily than with the Vanguard (reholstering with the Vanguard takes a while. Not a concern in a gunfight.)

unammo.com has some good deals right now on bulk 9mm ammo that I took advantage of and I would look at them or ammoseek.com if I were you. For carry rounds I would recommend Federal HST, Federal Hydrashock, or Speer hollow points, Winchester PDX, etc.

BIGGEST ITEM: training. Just spend the money on it and make sure to get it from somebody who has good credentials. You would not believe how many people I have seen teaching classes at the local gun shop and any guy fresh to a team would laugh at them for all the stupid shit they are teaching. This a good video from youtube that gives the basics of shooting a pistol in a very concise manner. Yeah, the guy is a little intense and odd, but 15 years in a Tier one unit and 22 total SOF years says a little. Besides, he nails the basics very well.


The biggest step is one you have already made, and that is changing your paradigm. You now realize that you and your wife are at risk and therefore you are already 50% of the way to fixing it.

Last note: Don't skimp money on this gear or training, but don't think that you need to spend a lot on all sorts of stuff. Remember, the basics always work and are what you will naturally fall back to under stress IF you have trained them into yourself. This applies to skills, gear, and tactics. If you can, find someone with a Special Operations background and they will be able to get you off the ground and running pretty well until you can get some actual training. GET THE TRAINING!

Until you guys get a conceal license, I highly recommend the knife idea carried in the appendix position in a good sheath. Another EXCELLENT and often overlooked option is a good high lumen flashlight with aggressive bezel. This is often more effective than a knife when used properly.
 
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Likes: richthe1

mrtoyz

Armchair Commando
Jul 11, 2009
422
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Western WA
#25
Some great advice here.
Training training training. Self defense and weapon.
With regards to gun selection. Her opinion is most important. Don’t buy something she hasn’t shot and likes. Seriously consider aSig 365. I’ve read the same stuff you have. I’m a believer.
Gonna sound funny but my wife really likes the bra holster from Flashbang. Worth a look.
IMO women should carry near the front of their bodies ie appendix or bra. With a generalized lack of strength against a man it is beneficial for women to keep their arms and hands close to the body.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#26
Personal opinion here but as I said above, I would try a cubaton before a knife. It's an impact weapon, it can parry some attacks and it can be carried on a keychain which is something women are often trained to carry as a makeshift weapon when going to and from their car.

I carry a knife some times but the type of threat I run in to most often is homeless (and often insane) people on drugs.

I could use a knife for self defense (poorly) but the last thing I want is diseased bum blood on me.

I mainly just try to avoid risky situations and people who are not right. It works for me but a woman would probably be targeted much more than me.

I'm still not sure about concealed carry. It lacks the deterrent.

When she walks the dog, I say open carry in a retention holster.

Security escort at the Hospital is a great idea if available.

At home it's hard to say without knowing the path she has to travel.
 

Mooncake

Sergeant of the Hide
May 29, 2018
363
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Central Mountains, CO
#27
I know nothing about TX law but in many states open carry is legal without any permitting. IF this is the case in TX, she could carry OWB when walking the dog. Big deterrent and easy draw. I suspect it isn’t legal though since it hasn’t been suggested yet.

Good advice offered so far. The best nuggets: get a large, aggressive looking breed dog like a Pit, German Shepherd, Doberman etc, carry a blade and a 1K lumen light, and GTF out of a neighborhood you don’t feel safe in. And TRAIN.

If you’re looking at pistols to purchase, look at the HK VP9k. It’s double stack, but otherwise roughly the same size as a G43 and the ergos are soooo much better. It also accepts larger cap VP9 magazines for backup/ at home nightstand use.

Last thing: definitely get insurance like USCCA.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
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#29
I know nothing about TX law but in many states open carry is legal without any permitting. IF this is the case in TX, she could carry OWB when walking the dog. Big deterrent and easy draw. I suspect it isn’t legal though since it hasn’t been suggested yet..
It Texas it is NOT legal to open carry a handgun without a license.
And if you are pretty much anywhere around a larger city, some SJW idiot IS going to call the police eventually to harass you, so you need to be able to show your licence when they ask.

Now you can carry a rifle with you no licence needed in a non threatening manner. However you might find that you constantly get the police called to check if you are in any major urban center, so that can be a bit more hassle than it's worth.
 

CuTm

New Hide Member
Jul 17, 2018
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#30
I would honestly just move . If it is this big of a issue . Otherwise go get training . I know thunder ranch , and tactical response spend time in Texas among many other reputable trainers. I know paying attention and just leaving when something looks wrong has always worked out for me. Training cost money . It’s something that will change you’re life , and maybe save it one day.
 

mcameron

Sergeant of the Hide
Nov 17, 2011
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#31
Not a big fan of pocket carried anything. OWB or IWB and take classes and train a bunch. Have a good plan too.
if you wear pants that actually fit (IE not skinny jeans).....use a pocket holster......and dont carry anything else in your pockets, theres really nothing wrong with pocket carry...

my draw speed is exactly the same from the belt or from in a pocket.

the main upside to pocket carry is you can have your hand on your gun, and not be presenting yourself as a threat......example, your walking your dog and you see someone walking up behind you.....you can have your hand on your gun until you can verify whether its an attacker....or just someone out for a walk minding their own business......something you cant easily do with belt carry.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
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Dallas, TX
#32
I shoot 1911s much better than my glocks for accuracy. But 15 rounds in my 19 vs 8 in my 1911 says a lot. Any person who thinks that 8 rounds is a comfortable number is in my opinion a little confident. Yes, the 43 only carries 6 but you are trading capacity for concealability and accepting a little more risk based on the low probability of an unfortunate event.
You are kind of stating both sides of the whole capacity thing some folks are a bit hung up on.

More capacity is always nice to have, but I think some get a bit hung up on it for a civilian walk around defense gun.
I'd suggest that in the civilian carry world, the instances (not counting home invasions), where more than 5 shots were needed to stop the threat are pretty rare.
I'd suggest that the most important thing is what can you shoot accurately enough that you can take out a bad guy who is holding a loved one hostage in front of them.

Sometimes it doesn't turn out like you hoped.
I'm a big fan of carrying .45 and usually my fall back gun / winter gun is a HK45 / HK45c for the extra energy / penetration the loads carry...
However when testing this weekend, unfortunately I found I was at least 50% more accurate with my CZ 95 target pistols in 9mm....
So despite my personal preferences I may have to swap over to carrying 9mm as my fall back gun / winter gun depending on how the rest of my shooting tests go.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
1,180
493
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#33
That's because it's not meant to be a deterrent. It's meant to be a fight ender.
With no deterrent and the 21' knife thing, she better draw when anyone gets near her or else she better train to draw the gun and get off a shot while she's being stabbed or pummeled by a guy that outweighs her by 100lbs.
 

mcameron

Sergeant of the Hide
Nov 17, 2011
2,901
3,446
113
#34
With no deterrent and the 21' knife thing, she better draw when anyone gets near her or else she better train to draw the gun and get off a shot while she's being stabbed or pummeled by a guy that outweighs her by 100lbs.
OC is not going to do anything to stop someone determined to stab you....ide lose the "scare them off" mindset right now....

hell i can walk right up next to you with a knive in my pocket and i know i can easily kill you before you get a chance to get that gun out if you let me get close enough

OC or CC.....situational awareness is what you need.......because without it, the gun wont help you.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,742
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Dallas, TX
#35
Deterrence has it's place and time. Sometimes it's useful.

I'd suggest that it depends on if somebody is actually specifically targeting you, or if the threat is just some hoodlum looking for the easiest victim.

In the specific example of needing to park your car in a parking lot & walk to your apartment, and then the reverse, or when walking a smaller dog around at night near an apartment complex, it may well be worth the hassle if you don't have the option to move.
Someone looking for a victim might pick an easier target rather than a woman carrying a big pistol on a tactical belt with spare magazines and a flashlight and spray pouch. Especially if their hand is free and resting on the holster as they walk.
However around here you will probably get questioned at least once or twice by the police, so best make sure you have your license.

However there is the down side that somebody might then be interested in taking what you have, or planing their approach a bit more carefully if they want to get you. So as mentioned by the poster above, Situational awareness is going to be key and also working out things ahead of time so you are not fumbling with locking / unlocking your car / apartment in a way that lets someone get up on you from behind.
 

HoustonB77

Online Training Member
Jan 28, 2014
505
90
28
Nixon TX
#36
Take her to a gun range that rents guns and let her try a few. That will tell you what she will shoot the best. Rent several and let her shot them all. Don't try to convince her of what YOU think would be the best option. And it doesn't have to be a 9mm. a 32 or 380 in the boiler room is a hell of a lot better than a 9mm in the dirt.
Guns that I would try to rent. G42, 642 with a low recoil load, LCR in 22 mag? Mix in some 9mm stuff to and see what she likes.
 

308pirate

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 25, 2017
3,804
1,298
113
#37
With no deterrent and the 21' knife thing, she better draw when anyone gets near her or else she better train to draw the gun and get off a shot while she's being stabbed or pummeled by a guy that outweighs her by 100lbs.
Your comment is ridiculous and shows a deep lack of understanding of Dennis Tueller's findings.

You've admitted in a previous post that you don't carry a handgun, and yet here you are dispensing advice about concealed carry. Maybe you should refrain from offering advice about things you have no first hand knowledge of?

About the only thing you've said that makes sense is to get training
 
Feb 13, 2017
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#38
A "properly" configured revolver has merits that semi-auto's do not have, especially for one who doesn't actually routinely train and maintain the skill set to carry a firearm.
1. No magazine to drop out when the user mistakenly compresses the magazine release while establishing a
shooting grip. IF you have semi-auto that has a magazine disconnect feature it gets worse as your now one shot firearm is a zero-shot firearm.
2. If the need arises to point-shoot at contact distances from concealment (a purse, coat pocket etc) a revolver is generally going to continue cycling whereas semi-autos will usually malfunction after the first round do to restrictions
of space for slide movement.
3. A hammerless double-action-only fire control to lessen risk of snagging on presentation and much higher trigger
pull weights reduce the chance of a negligent discharge should a no-shoot scenario evolve.
4. A caliber and size appropriate for the individual hand size / strength.
 
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Likes: W54/XM-388

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,742
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#39
I would Strongly advise against the LCR in .22 mag (as well as the one in .22 LR) as it has a horrendously heavy trigger and will ruin someone's perception of revolvers.

The one to try from the series is the LCR in .357 magnum, then load it with .38 special rounds (The .357 magnum version has a better trigger than the .38 special only version). Hornady makes a very nice light reduced recoil defensive load for it in .38 special with little pink plugs in the hollow points, that is very comfortable. Make sure you also get the one with the hogue grip and Not the one with the hard plastic laser grip.
 

OldArcher

For Sale Access
Sep 12, 2018
7
1
3
#40
**I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask this. I thought about putting it on the Bear Pit, but decided this forum might more closely relate to my question.**

A woman was out walking her dog and a man followed her into her apartment and stabbed her to death. This happened around 8pm at night, so it was not even that late. My wife works in the ER so she gets home at all hours of the day, and it happened close enough to where we live to have us concerned. The Hide has been super helpful on questions I have asked in other forums, and I would appreciate any insight you could offer here.

About Us:
(1) My wife works in the ER. My main concern is when she will come home to our apartment by herself late at night after her shift is over. Other times would be when I am out of town and she needs to take the dog out, etc. The large majority of the time she will only be carrying to/from her vehicle to our apartment and when she is around the apartment complex by herself. She might also take it running.
(2) Recently Moved to Texas (this might be relevant for the legal question I have)
(3) Currently do not own a Handgun or have a Concealed Carry Permit (called License to Carry (LTC) in Texas). Plan to get both ASAP.

Questions:
(1)
What items should I purchase for my wife? She is 5'8" 150lbs. These are what I am considering:
Handgun: Glock 19 Gen 4. She liked the feel of this one the best, but I want to see if she can find a subcompact she likes - carrying the G19 might be a little big on her. G26 or G43 are other options. Maybe P320 subcompact. The P365 also looks great on paper, but I'm concerned about reliability issues.
Holster: CrossBreed Belly Band. Possibly Alien Gear Shapeshift Pocket or Vedder Pocket Locker (any similar you'd recommend? Again, she won't be wearing a carry belt)
Self Defense Ammo: Federal HST
Practice Ammo: Probably the cheapest brass cased ammo available at the time (does it matter?)
Car Safe: ShotLock Handgun 200M Solo-Vault (Mechanical)
Insurance: Maybe?
Cleaning Equipment: Using a one-piece coated cleaning rod in precision rifles is critical. Are there similar rules in handgun cleaning I need to know? Or is a generic cleaning kit is okay?

(2)
Is it legal for my wife to keep a concealed carry locked up in her car while she is at work? Since she works at an ER she parks on hospital property. I looked up the law but I am still unclear:

Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 46.035
"(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder's person:

...
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;"

Does the phrase "on or about the license holder's person" mean that a locked up handgun in her car would apply? It does appear she could request for written authorization from the hospital.

(3)
While we are waiting on a LTC permit, is Sabre Red Pepper Spray the best means of protection?

(4)
The apartment complex we live in is relatively well lit - even at night. But should I get Night Sights? A Flashlight? Reflex Sight?


Anything else we should consider? Thank you for your help!
Sig Sauer P365, with 12rd magazines. No need to worry about "Safe Action Trigger" on Glocks. Carried G21's and G30's for years. NEVER liked the Glock system. Today, I carry two P938 Emperor Scorpions, but some don't like, or are confident of going "locked and cocked," like 1911. So, go with the new P365- dirt simple, accurate, great trigger, and yes, I too only carry 147gr HST, standard loads. Ideal for any length 9mm- full sized, to micro pistols. When your life, or that of a loved one is on the line, Sig Sauer. Get her a purse that is from a reputable vendor, like Bianchi, or other, for ease of carriage... At least two extra magazines, preferably five, but whatever she can comfortably carry... Practice ammo should also be 147gr, with same POA/POI... Do the same for yourself, so that ammo and mags are common. Spend SERIOUS time at the range. Work on house/apartment clearing drills, and remember, what others don't know, can't hurt you... Good Luck, and God Bless...
 

HoustonB77

Online Training Member
Jan 28, 2014
505
90
28
Nixon TX
#41
I would Strongly advise against the LCR in .22 mag (as well as the one in .22 LR) as it has a horrendously heavy trigger and will ruin someone's perception of revolvers.

The one to try from the series is the LCR in .357 magnum, then load it with .38 special rounds (The .357 magnum version has a better trigger than the .38 special only version). Hornady makes a very nice light reduced recoil defensive load for it in .38 special with little pink plugs in the hollow points, that is very comfortable. Make sure you also get the one with the hogue grip and Not the one with the hard plastic laser grip.
I have never personally fired the LCR in 22. Just figured it might be a good option for someone that is recoil sensitive.
My EDC revolver of choice is a smith 642. With my handloads I am pushing the 135 gold dot SB at 1000 fps. This load is not for the faint of heart though and I would never let my wife shoot it.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
1,180
493
83
#42
OC is not going to do anything to stop someone determined to stab you....ide lose the "scare them off" mindset right now....

hell i can walk right up next to you with a knive in my pocket and i know i can easily kill you before you get a chance to get that gun out if you let me get close enough

OC or CC.....situational awareness is what you need.......because without it, the gun wont help you.
The point of open carry is that they will find someone else to stab.

Predators do not go out looking for a challenge, they look for the weak, that's why all the mass shootings happen in "gun free zones".

If you are unlucky enough that an attacker fixates on you even if they know you are carrying, you're fucked so the right move is to present yourself in a way that projects strength.

I would carry if I could. I was denied even an application for a CCW permit and that was after a lawsuit that required applications be made available. I talked to gun lawyers but it wasn't the right fight at the time.

I would love to legally CCW while traveling through Oakland, San Francisco and some of the gang lands outside the bay area but I can not.

When I'm in certain high crime places like that, I'm on high alert but also trying to stand out as little as possible, CCW makes sense there as well as the fact that OC would result in lots of man with a gun police calls (and I barely trust the police more than criminals in those places).

I'm not an OC guy but when you're in a state where you can and you have a threat near your home where you are going to be a lot of the time, it starts to make sense.
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Aug 10, 2001
5,477
743
113
Arizona, good place for me...
#43
Now you have me interested. Looking at the Ruger LCR9. Five rounds in a moon clip; should allow for simpler (re/un-)loading.

I especially like it because of a decision back when I came to AZ and allowed myself to think about hand guns again; I decided to standardize on the 9mm. If Uncle Sugar uses it as a standard, I think it's worth consideration. Hornady 115gr Critical Defense.

I will have three women living in the house after Oct 1, and I want something that's simple, easy to shoot, cheap to train with, and comparatively effective. I'm not an expert, so I lean toward KISS. I may end up buying 3 or 4.

The Grandson's coming too...

Greg
 
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W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,742
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Dallas, TX
#44
I have never personally fired the LCR in 22. Just figured it might be a good option for someone that is recoil sensitive.
My EDC revolver of choice is a smith 642. With my handloads I am pushing the 135 gold dot SB at 1000 fps. This load is not for the faint of heart though and I would never let my wife shoot it.
I've owned the LCR in .357, .22LR, .22WMR & tried it in the .38 special.
The problem with the rimfire ones is like almost all rimfire revolvers the double action pull is horrendous and requires way too much hand strength, which negates the usefulness for people with less recoil tolerance.

I sold all of them except the .357 one because that had the best trigger of them all.

In the LCR, Full .357 magnum loads are a real handful, but the .38 special is pretty easy to shoot and then the reduced recoil loads are easy to handle for just about anybody.

The grip plays a big part and that's why I recommend the Hogue grip one, it is a bit bigger and fits in your hand and wants to stay there nicely. It also has a soft hollow spot in the back so you don't get the recoil pulse into the web of your thumb/finger, but rather the recoil pulse goes into your palm.

Now you have me interested. Looking at the LCR9. Five rounds in a moon clip; should allow for simpler (re-)loading.
I especially like it because of a decision back when I came to AZ and allowed myself to think about hand guns again; I decided to standardize on the 9mm. If Uncle Sugar uses it as a standard, I think it's worth consideration. Hornady 115gr Critical Defense.
I will have three women living in the house after Oct 1, and I want something that's simple, easy to shoot, and comparatively effective. I'm not an expert, so I lean toward KISS.
Greg
The new LCR and LCRx in the 9mm look pretty interesting. It appears to have the nice Hogue grip & would probably be a really soft shooting reliable option. I haven't had a chance to handle one of those myself but they look promising.
You'll have to let us know how they handle.
 

Rerun7

Furious George
Feb 18, 2017
621
101
43
Fayetteville, Arkansas
#45
I’m sorry but some of you guys need to do some serious research and experience before dispensing device.

There is some good advice on this thread and some terrible advice as well. I’m not the end all be all of self defense but some of that stuff is just stupid.

My POV:

Good advice:
Get training
Get the right mindset
Situational awareness will solve most issues
Get a handgun that will actually be carried and the user is proficient with (Revolver is less proned to malfunctions but gives up recoil and capacity)
If the user isn’t going to train then DON’T give them a gun! Pick a different defense item

Bad advice:
Open Carry... I can list 10 ways this is just looking for trouble.
Deterents... the best deterrent is situational awareness. Attackers are looking for those that seem weak and oblivious.
.22 caliber.... enough said.... Just No....
Knife carry... not bad in itself but without training this could be really bad outside of a last resort

C’mon guys. If you don’t personally have training or experience in this then you shouldn’t be dispensing advice.... you are going to get someone hurt.
 

THEIS

Sergeant of the Hide
Nov 27, 2017
1,115
1,641
113
#46
Hi,

I would suggest ditching the "carry purse" idea for a beginner. What is the first thing that gets taken from a woman during any type of altercation whether it be robbery, abduction attempt, etc etc?? Her purse.
Purse carry is the easiest way to get your wife separated from her intended protection. The only way purse carry works is if she has pretty much mastered the situational awareness and mindset aspects.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,742
2,412
113
Dallas, TX
#47
C’mon guys. If you don’t personally have training or experience in this then you shouldn’t be dispensing advice.... you are going to get someone hurt.
You make a lot of very good points.
However one thing about "training or experience" is that what goes down in the civilian world and what you can and can't do is often a bit different from how people in the military / law enforcement / "I was a special forces so I'm the best" training places see things. In addition, things may be different from city to city & neighborhood to neighborhood.

So while lots of general stuff is helpful, specific situations and specific environments for specific people can be a bit different sometimes than the boilerplate people get told as general things.
 

Rerun7

Furious George
Feb 18, 2017
621
101
43
Fayetteville, Arkansas
#48
You make a lot of very good points.
However one thing about "training or experience" is that what goes down in the civilian world and what you can and can't do is often a bit different from how people in the military / law enforcement / "I was a special forces so I'm the best" training places see things. In addition, things may be different from city to city & neighborhood to neighborhood.

So while lots of general stuff is helpful, specific situations and specific environments for specific people can be a bit different sometimes than the boilerplate people get told as general things.

Totally agree. I’ve never been in the military but I’ve done several civilian training classes. I would assume there are stark differences based on area, mindset, mission, etc.

I don’t think there is a one size fits all answer. Each person has to understand what they are comfortable with and willing to do.

However, I think there are some foundational principles that span all situations. And there are also some basic things not to do that fit 98% of the situations.
 
Likes: W54/XM-388
Apr 6, 2017
326
7
18
Georgia
#49
Obviously gun choice and training is very personal. I would not advise offbody carry but holster choice is limited without a belt (either dress around a belt or try something like a shoulder or chest holster or even fanny pack).

For car safe I highly recommend the simplex lock types. Fort Knox safes are better but v line could work. Legality of carry at work I have no idea about as I am in a different state where it is legal even in hospitals. Either way a safe could be handy.
 

Vodoun daVinci

Sergeant of the Hide
Dec 17, 2017
201
48
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#50
Take her to a range that rents and shoot everything that seems to fit her hand and inspire confidence. Always start with something easy and that inherently shoots well. Resist the urge to get fancy/expensive or high powered with a beginner. Once she gets trained and licensed she will move forward and get more sophisticated in both weaponry and carry style. The key is to get her shooting and interested in training and learning to protect herself....final points can be learned/trained later.

Having a petite Wife who has been a shooter her whole life and having trained many of her friends (She and I head up a small concealed carry support group here that lends guns and helps others) and other women I have found that revolvers, especially concealable/snubbie revolvers, are possibly the most difficult platform to master for beginners. Most kick like a mule with any decent defense ammunition and they get 5 rounds and a 10 - 30 second reload. A .380 auto like a G42 or a Sig Sauer P238 will give them 7 rounds and a 4 second reload....they'll likely not be sterilized by the recoil and hit probability goes thru the roof. As does the possibility of rapid follow ups. If she's up to it a small 9mm is even better. I back pocket carry a Sig P290 9mm and it draws and puts rounds on target as fast as my Appendix carried 9mm Px4 Beretta. Pocket carry *rocks* if not done in a tight jeans pocket and the gun is right.....plus if in a jacket pocket or even a back pocket one can literally achieve and firing grip without brandishing and put rounds on target in about a second with judicious practice. I'm a big fan of pocket carry.

Find a gun that works and have her train as if her Life depends on it. Shoot as much as possible until she is comfortable and then tell her that finding the right holster and carry position/details is a important as shooting the gun....it'll do her no good if it's not carried well. She'll likely have to learn to dress around the gun and that bugs a lot of women who try and find a gun/holster/carry position that works with they way they dress. They need to understand that being armed makes its own demands....dress around the gun.

Good luck and tell her we support her and love her and want her to be safe and confident.

VooDoo
 
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