A sign from above...RBG is hurting

Unknown

Gunny Sergeant
Sep 17, 2009
3,186
270
83
Pacific Northwest,USA
While I don't agree with much of Ginsberg's liberal thinking, I don't wish her any ill. I believe that she loves this country and wants the best for it. Unlike many of the liberals on the left, Ginsberg does not want to tear down our Country. I believe that she truly loves this country and wants to do good by it. We just disagree on how doing good by the USA can best be accomplished.

I wish more people on the left thought I was as entitled to my opinion as I feel they are entitled to their opinions. When either side begins to think that people with opinions that differ from their own are not entitled to the same respect they want for themselves civility and an open exchange of ideas becomes very difficult. At least Ginsberg listens to views that differ from her own.
 

deersniper

Online Training Member
Feb 22, 2007
2,452
820
113
N. Maryland
While I don't agree with much of Ginsberg's liberal thinking, I don't wish her any ill. I believe that she loves this country and wants the best for it. Unlike many of the liberals on the left, Ginsberg does not want to tear down our Country. I believe that she truly loves this country and wants to do good by it. We just disagree on how doing good by the USA can best be accomplished.

I wish more people on the left thought I was as entitled to my opinion as I feel they are entitled to their opinions. When either side begins to think that people with opinions that differ from their own are not entitled to the same respect they want for themselves civility and an open exchange of ideas becomes very difficult. At least Ginsberg listens to views that differ from her own.
Fuck that. I want freedom. They want me to be a tax slave serf for the welfare class and the organized .gov crime class

That's more than just a difference of opinion.

Hope they all die.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
3,043
2,839
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Dallas, TX
They all will. Everybody dies eventually (despite the best efforts money can buy).

The problem is Evil people seem to take forever before they actually die and they hang on to their jobs and power practically till the coffins are nailed shut so they don't miss a chance to destroy as much good as possible in their long evil lives.

I'm not sure why good people can't seem to last that long in positions of importance.
 

Unknown

Gunny Sergeant
Sep 17, 2009
3,186
270
83
Pacific Northwest,USA
Fuck that. I want freedom. They want me to be a tax slave serf for the welfare class and the organized .gov crime class

That's more than just a difference of opinion.

Hope they all die.
I was writing about Ginsberg.

To whom are you referring under the "they want me to be a tax slave serf"? I am interested in how you think you become a "slave serf" any more than the rest of the people who have to pay taxes. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested in the process by which you think you become a "slave serf", and even more interested in how you, or the rest of the tax payers could avoid having that happen. Taxes are part of life for most folks living in the USA.



While I disagree with Ginsberg, I won't wish her ill. I just want her to go away so Trump can appoint someone whose political ideas more closely mirror my own. I am not so naive to expect that the next Supreme Court selection's politics will mirror my own, I just want someone whose ideas are closer to my own.
 

Fig

Janitor of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
2,176
3,194
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The Most Dangerous City in the USA
I was writing about Ginsberg.

To whom are you referring under the "they want me to be a tax slave serf"? I am interested in how you think you become a "slave serf" any more than the rest of the people who have to pay taxes. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested in the process by which you think you become a "slave serf", and even more interested in how you, or the rest of the tax payers could avoid having that happen. Taxes are part of life for most folks living in the USA.



While I disagree with Ginsberg, I won't wish her ill. I just want her to go away so Trump can appoint someone whose political ideas more closely mirror my own. I am not so naive to expect that the next Supreme Court selection's politics will mirror my own, I just want someone whose ideas are closer to my own.
So how to you explain the first 137 years of the United States of America when an income tax was unconstitutional? Is that magic, fantasy time? Was our rise to being a world power not possible without robbing the people of their prosperity by skimming the cream off the top?

Honestly, at least the leftists are honest about wanting to force you to obey. People like you make me infinitely more angry. Slavery was part of life too, but we got rid of it because it is morally wrong. Income taxes are theft by force. They are morally wrong. If they're not, then as long as you have a good reason to steal and are going to use what you've stolen to do good then there is no such thing as stealing, only good intent and bad intent.
 

deersniper

Online Training Member
Feb 22, 2007
2,452
820
113
N. Maryland
I was writing about Ginsberg.

To whom are you referring under the "they want me to be a tax slave serf"? I am interested in how you think you become a "slave serf" any more than the rest of the people who have to pay taxes. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested in the process by which you think you become a "slave serf", and even more interested in how you, or the rest of the tax payers could avoid having that happen. Taxes are part of life for most folks living in the USA.



While I disagree with Ginsberg, I won't wish her ill. I just want her to go away so Trump can appoint someone whose political ideas more closely mirror my own. I am not so naive to expect that the next Supreme Court selection's politics will mirror my own, I just want someone whose ideas are closer to my own.
If you can't see the difference between paying for the roads/.mil and the graft/corruption/welfare/theft schemes we have now I'm nit going to spend the time educating you.
 

ArmyJerry

Staff Sergeant
Nov 22, 2012
6,779
6,328
113
.mil is the only constitutional cost you mention. The rest is not a federal function.

If you can't see the difference between paying for the roads/.mil and the graft/corruption/welfare/theft schemes we have now I'm nit going to spend the time educating you.
 
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ArmyJerry

Staff Sergeant
Nov 22, 2012
6,779
6,328
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A very small percentage pay a net tax. Most get back more than they pay. Its slavery for the net payers.

I was writing about Ginsberg.

To whom are you referring under the "they want me to be a tax slave serf"? I am interested in how you think you become a "slave serf" any more than the rest of the people who have to pay taxes. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested in the process by which you think you become a "slave serf", and even more interested in how you, or the rest of the tax payers could avoid having that happen. Taxes are part of life for most folks living in the USA.



While I disagree with Ginsberg, I won't wish her ill. I just want her to go away so Trump can appoint someone whose political ideas more closely mirror my own. I am not so naive to expect that the next Supreme Court selection's politics will mirror my own, I just want someone whose ideas are closer to my own.
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
6,451
2,883
113
50
Divernon, Illinios
I was writing about Ginsberg.

To whom are you referring under the "they want me to be a tax slave serf"? I am interested in how you think you become a "slave serf" any more than the rest of the people who have to pay taxes. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested in the process by which you think you become a "slave serf", and even more interested in how you, or the rest of the tax payers could avoid having that happen. Taxes are part of life for most folks living in the USA.



While I disagree with Ginsberg, I won't wish her ill. I just want her to go away so Trump can appoint someone whose political ideas more closely mirror my own. I am not so naive to expect that the next Supreme Court selection's politics will mirror my own, I just want someone whose ideas are closer to my own.
The long version but poignant:
1541784990903.png

R
 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
11,079
13,968
113
53
The Snobbiest Town in The Snobbiest State in the N
We don't have a revenue problem in this country....

We have a spending problem.

The government realized a long time ago that they can bribe the people with their own money... and that when there are enough voters with no money... then it will be easy to have the majority of non-workers vote to make the minority of workers... support them.

At some juncture, you reach a tipping point at which the minority of workers (makers) are tired of the majority of non-workers (takers) and they find a new place to practice their entrepreneurship... or sell their labor. Then you have an economic death spiral.

It's not fantasy or theory. That is real. That is how economics works... unless you are a socialist. Then you think that the government magically can produce an economy and everyone can ride unicorns and live in a Utopian wonderland.

Slave-serf... well, not my term. But here's something to contemplate... I bought Schloss Nitrocellulose 20 years ago. From my family. And I paid market value at the time. I have no mortgage. Yet with property taxes here in this insane socialist rapist state... I have to, in essence, re-buy my property every 9 years now! And that will get to be less as inflation increases. Think about that... most property is on a 30 year mortgage... with interest. But I have to, in essence, pay off the equivalent of a mortgage every 9 years.... for a property I own outright. If I take into account what my folks paid for the place back in the 1970's... get this: I re-buy the property every 3 years!

Of course, the argument is 'Well, your property is worth so much more now... " Sure. If I sell it!

We call it 'Economic Cleansing" here. Get rid of the residents... by taxing them off their land so you can put up McMansions and move in the Hedge Fund Managers and the Trust-funders. We life-long residents's aren't wanted. We drive trucks, shoot guns, hunt deer and don't support the local Latte Bars or socialist senators.

Oh and what do I get for services for the property taxes? Nothing much. Due to our commie state... the education taxes are shipped out of town... to support towns with lower tax bases. No water, no sewer. Dirt road. Great PD.. and great FD... but I don't need them much.

So who am I working for? When I buy my house again every decade...?

THAT is the crap that pisses me off about government. They keep telling me all the things they are doing for me. And I am happy for the defense, the roads, prisons, border controls.... I like a space program that looks good and spins off technology. And I am for a safety net for those who can't work.... and nothing for those who WON'T work.

So there ya go.... I won't identify as a slave... but it sure feels like it on occasion when I am forced to write a property tax check each quarter... that is 2x bigger than ANY mortgage payment I ever had.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
7,836
4,612
113
50
MA
We don't have a revenue problem in this country....

We have a spending problem.

The government realized a long time ago that they can bribe the people with their own money... and that when there are enough voters with no money... then it will be easy to have the majority of non-workers vote to make the minority of workers... support them.

At some juncture, you reach a tipping point at which the minority of workers (makers) are tired of the majority of non-workers (takers) and they find a new place to practice their entrepreneurship... or sell their labor. Then you have an economic death spiral.

It's not fantasy or theory. That is real. That is how economics works... unless you are a socialist. Then you think that the government magically can produce an economy and everyone can ride unicorns and live in a Utopian wonderland.

Slave-serf... well, not my term. But here's something to contemplate... I bought Schloss Nitrocellulose 20 years ago. From my family. And I paid market value at the time. I have no mortgage. Yet with property taxes here in this insane socialist rapist state... I have to, in essence, re-buy my property every 9 years now! And that will get to be less as inflation increases. Think about that... most property is on a 30 year mortgage... with interest. But I have to, in essence, pay off the equivalent of a mortgage every 9 years.... for a property I own outright. If I take into account what my folks paid for the place back in the 1970's... get this: I re-buy the property every 3 years!

Of course, the argument is 'Well, your property is worth so much more now... " Sure. If I sell it!

We call it 'Economic Cleansing" here. Get rid of the residents... by taxing them off their land so you can put up McMansions and move in the Hedge Fund Managers and the Trust-funders. We life-long residents's aren't wanted. We drive trucks, shoot guns, hunt deer and don't support the local Latte Bars or socialist senators.

Oh and what do I get for services for the property taxes? Nothing much. Due to our commie state... the education taxes are shipped out of town... to support towns with lower tax bases. No water, no sewer. Dirt road. Great PD.. and great FD... but I don't need them much.

So who am I working for? When I buy my house again every decade...?

THAT is the crap that pisses me off about government. They keep telling me all the things they are doing for me. And I am happy for the defense, the roads, prisons, border controls.... I like a space program that looks good and spins off technology. And I am for a safety net for those who can't work.... and nothing for those who WON'T work.

So there ya go.... I won't identify as a slave... but it sure feels like it on occasion when I am forced to write a property tax check each quarter... that is 2x bigger than ANY mortgage payment I ever had.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Reminds me of the bottle bill. Every can or bottle beverage I buy has a 5 cent tax attached to it yet every Friday my taxes pay to have a truck pick up my blue recycle bin and recycle those bottles. Shame on me I could be returning the bottles to get my nickle back but like 90 percent of the people out there, save the Asian guy with huge trash bags of cans strapped to his handle bars, I dont return for refund and that deposit money goes to the general fund for spending on who knows what.

We are suckers getting boned by our govt.

This last election had a ballot initiative to study "Citizens United" and try to start an amendment movement to get the SCOTUS ruling overturned.

This ties in to the botte return issue because last election the state wanted to expand the bottle deposit tax to bottled water - probably the most popular beverage these days - it would have brought tons of money into the state.

The water businesses spent a ton educating the public that it made no sense to pay 5 cents to return bottles for recycling when you could just toss them in to your recycle bin. The measure wasnt passed.

When you here Hillary rail against Citizens United its not because she wants to stop "business" money from going in to her pocket.....she want to stop businesses from spending money to stop legislation that hurts the business as well as the consumer.

So kill citizens united Soros still gives money to Hillary, businesses will still be able to give money to politicians but they wont be able to educate you on policy that is bad for you.
 
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Likes: W54/XM-388

MarinePMI

Battery Operated Grunt
Jun 3, 2010
2,765
1,206
113
San Diego, Ca
We don't have a revenue problem in this country....

We have a spending problem.

The government realized a long time ago that they can bribe the people with their own money... and that when there are enough voters with no money... then it will be easy to have the majority of non-workers vote to make the minority of workers... support them.

At some juncture, you reach a tipping point at which the minority of workers (makers) are tired of the majority of non-workers (takers) and they find a new place to practice their entrepreneurship... or sell their labor. Then you have an economic death spiral.

It's not fantasy or theory. That is real. That is how economics works... unless you are a socialist. Then you think that the government magically can produce an economy and everyone can ride unicorns and live in a Utopian wonderland.

Slave-serf... well, not my term. But here's something to contemplate... I bought Schloss Nitrocellulose 20 years ago. From my family. And I paid market value at the time. I have no mortgage. Yet with property taxes here in this insane socialist rapist state... I have to, in essence, re-buy my property every 9 years now! And that will get to be less as inflation increases. Think about that... most property is on a 30 year mortgage... with interest. But I have to, in essence, pay off the equivalent of a mortgage every 9 years.... for a property I own outright. If I take into account what my folks paid for the place back in the 1970's... get this: I re-buy the property every 3 years!

Of course, the argument is 'Well, your property is worth so much more now... " Sure. If I sell it!

We call it 'Economic Cleansing" here. Get rid of the residents... by taxing them off their land so you can put up McMansions and move in the Hedge Fund Managers and the Trust-funders. We life-long residents's aren't wanted. We drive trucks, shoot guns, hunt deer and don't support the local Latte Bars or socialist senators.

Oh and what do I get for services for the property taxes? Nothing much. Due to our commie state... the education taxes are shipped out of town... to support towns with lower tax bases. No water, no sewer. Dirt road. Great PD.. and great FD... but I don't need them much.

So who am I working for? When I buy my house again every decade...?

THAT is the crap that pisses me off about government. They keep telling me all the things they are doing for me. And I am happy for the defense, the roads, prisons, border controls.... I like a space program that looks good and spins off technology. And I am for a safety net for those who can't work.... and nothing for those who WON'T work.

So there ya go.... I won't identify as a slave... but it sure feels like it on occasion when I am forced to write a property tax check each quarter... that is 2x bigger than ANY mortgage payment I ever had.

Cheers,

Sirhr
That sir, is about the best analogy and example I have seen to date on why taxes are way too high. Boiling frogs comes to mind as well...
 
Likes: Bender

Unknown

Gunny Sergeant
Sep 17, 2009
3,186
270
83
Pacific Northwest,USA
I completely agree that we are overtaxed, and that as Sirhrmechanic said, we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. I have long held that one of the best ways to reduce, or reign in government is to stop the money flowing into government as much as possible. This would include voting against candidates of any party that want to increase government spending.

I was wondering if the "they" that was referred to was government, the electorate, or some other entity. My personal belief is that "they" are mostly the voters who don't think. Those who hear what they think is a good idea and blindly vote for either the idea or spend easy candidates are "they" who would create the "tax serf class". The money for any project, or great idea comes from US (we the taxpayers), not some mysterious source.

When people sue the government over issues of police abuse of power, or poor public service, the only money and of those agencies can pay out in court ordered settlements comes from the taxpayers, people are essentially suing themselves. It would be far more successful if money to pay for those settlements came from the actual elected officials bank accounts, or the retirement accounts of police who abuse power. However, the pattern is usually that the agency pays out of it's budget, and the personal financial status of the public official who abused their office is largely untouched.

In essence, the voters have turned themselves into the "slave serfs" by not voting out of office those who would increase taxes to pay for their pet projects. While many of those projects are great ideas, the problem is that it the taxpayers who foot the bill.

That was why I wondered who was being referred to when deer sniper said "they" had turned us into slave serfs. I believe that the "they" being referred to is the general public who votes for good ideas without any thought about where the money to pay for those great ideas comes from.

Deersniper may have a different idea about who composes the "they" to which he refers, hence my question. I sincerely hope my inquiry isn't perceived as an attack against Deersniper, as I am just trying to figure out who Deersniper thinks of as the "they".

My recommendation is to vote against any free spending politicians. Vote against tax increases, bond increases, essentially vote against any hidden fees, licenses, taxes, assessments, or whatever method the government tries to use in order to disguise their attempts to get more money out of the general public. Then use the initiative process to place limits on all methods that the government uses to squeeze more money out of the public.

When politicians finally realize that the public is tired of being taxed into oblivion, and that their free spending is why they aren't getting re-elected, or elected in the first place, the may then try run government within their means, rather than trying to get more and more money to spend.

Rant over.
 

ArmyJerry

Staff Sergeant
Nov 22, 2012
6,779
6,328
113
simple solution, a balanced budget amendment like every state has, no printing money or borrowing to cover a budget.

Give every person their payroll tax, outlaw FICA deductions and SSN deductions by the employer, make the employer hand over all payroll tax to the employee then make sure the employee pays it quarterly and true up the first week of November.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax
 
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W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
3,043
2,839
113
Dallas, TX
That was why I wondered who was being referred to when deer sniper said "they" had turned us into slave serfs. I believe that the "they" being referred to is the general public who votes for good ideas without any thought about where the money to pay for those great ideas comes from.

Deersniper may have a different idea about who composes the "they" to which he refers, hence my question. I sincerely hope my inquiry isn't perceived as an attack against Deersniper, as I am just trying to figure out who Deersniper thinks of as the "they".

My recommendation is to vote against any free spending politicians. Vote against tax increases, bond increases, essentially vote against any hidden fees, licenses, taxes, assessments, or whatever method the government tries to use in order to disguise their attempts to get more money out of the general public. Then use the initiative process to place limits on all methods that the government uses to squeeze more money out of the public.

When politicians finally realize that the public is tired of being taxed into oblivion, and that their free spending is why they aren't getting re-elected, or elected in the first place, the may then try run government within their means, rather than trying to get more and more money to spend.

Rant over.
In part "They" is actually a deeply nested answer and you will be ridiculed if you point out more than the first couple layers.
So keeping it to where you won't be roasted. "They" is the Communist / Deep State / Big Government / Power and Control hungry politicians and their associated idealists (such as just about everybody who gets too rich quickly like all the technocrats and Bloomberg types etc). Who think they know what is best and everybody else exists to serve their aims.

They get their power and control from another group of "They" in this case your average stupid, greedy, spiteful, uninterested, indoctrinated, uneducated, "open minded", lazy, short sighted member of society.

While your recommendations are all great and fine and sound, the simple FACT is that you will never pull it off. Sorry but it is way past the tipping point and there will not be a change till there is a true financial (or physical) apocalypse and it hits the skids bad enough that there is a full reset in society. We are still a long way off from that happening.

The founders of our country predicted as much, and openly stated that once people discovered that they could vote themselves gifts from the public purse, there was no going back and the trend was unstoppable.

That is why no politican recently has ever tried to actually cut the budget.... The last time there was a government shutdown scam over "budget cuts", it was simply the republicans wanting to only spend the same, or 1% more the next year than the last year????? But according to DC math, if you are not spending at least 3% more than the last year, it's a cut OMG let's spend extra money to close the parks that aren't even staffed and kick people off their rented properties, just to "hurt" people to show they best not ask the government to stop increasing it's voracious appetite. (Much like that fat fuck Chris Christie in NJ did right before he stank himself out of a job & was replaced by somebody less smelly but that also plans unlimited hikes in tax & spend).

To have a "Balanced Budget", it would require pretty much all government "programs" and "services" to be cut out completely in addition to having to scale back a bit of the military budget and hope Social Security didn't need to cash in any of their IOUs.

"Free" stuff from the government has gotten so entrenched in our society that more "households" than not get some kind of "benefit" from the government and none of them want to give it up. In addition as Romney was vilified for correctly stating less than half of the population is actually actively paying into income tax into the government coffers. (Sorry idiots who want to claim that those retirees should count because they "paid their dues", your "dues" were all spent long ago and all that remains is an IOU drafted against future taxpayers).

That is before you count the huge block of government workers which make up a very large motivated voting block who can be counted on to always vote for their own best interest as in more secure jobs, higher pay each year, and expansion of their numbers. There are millions of them, at all levels of government from Federal down to your local city.

So a greater part of the electorate is the beneficiaries to some extent of the government taking ever increasing amounts of money from those who are the taxpayers and then handing wads of it back to those supporting the tax and spend system (always with strings to increase control).

We are way past the point of no return, all that can be done is to slow down the coming trainwreck and push it off as long as possible.

Greece a few years back was just a small example of what would happen, but even there it didn't get as bad as it has to because the big global bankers agreed to "help them get through" in return for near complete control of government policy and veto over who ran the country.
 

deersniper

Online Training Member
Feb 22, 2007
2,452
820
113
N. Maryland
They. Is the people in power. Deep state/politicians/big corp people/media use .gov to enrich themselves and turn this country towards socialism/communism. They are organized crime that makes the mafia look like preschoolers. And if you don't think the super rich/big company people aren't intermingled with .gov take our money and freedom you are blind.

Any small gov candidate/party is cut off at the knees. Look at what happened to 9-9-9. Look at what the republicans/democrats/Lerner did to the tea party.

I don't even want to talk about the blatant bullshit like qualified immunity and using tax money to pay judgments for criminal acts by cops/.gov people. Remember all the talk about tax money used to pay lawyers and settlements for the sex assaults done by members of congress ?
 
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ArmyJerry

Staff Sergeant
Nov 22, 2012
6,779
6,328
113
A Fucking Men


They. Is the people in power. Deep state/politicians/big corp people/media use .gov to enrich themselves and turn this country towards socialism/communism. They are organized crime that makes the mafia look like preschoolers. And if you don't think the super rich/big company people aren't intermingled with .gov take our money and freedom you are blind.

Any small gov candidate/party is cut off at the knees. Look at what happened to 9-9-9. Look at what the republicans/democrats/Lerner did to the tea party.
They. Is the people in power. Deep state/politicians/big corp people/media use .gov to enrich themselves and turn this country towards socialism/communism. They are organized crime that makes the mafia look like preschoolers. And if you don't think the super rich/big company people aren't intermingled with .gov take our money and freedom you are blind.

Any small gov candidate/party is cut off at the knees. Look at what happened to 9-9-9. Look at what the republicans/democrats/Lerner did to the tea party.
 
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Unknown

Gunny Sergeant
Sep 17, 2009
3,186
270
83
Pacific Northwest,USA
From what I read above my posting, I am largely preaching to the choir. Any one of you could have written my rant, or I could have written yours. There is little I disagree with posted above... "we" are part of "they", and "we" keep electing people into office that refuse to run the government like we have to run our households. In our households, we have to try and balance income with purchases. We can't continue to borrow money, get yet another credit card, or rob Peter to pay Paul. That only works for a short time, yet the government seems to want to do it endlessly.

To make matters worse, the government can just print more money...and this causes all manner of other financial disasters.

Anyhow, the more I read, the more I realize that those on this board largely think alike. Sure, there is the occasional troll, but most of the long term members here think along very similar lines.

I think the USA is eventually doomed to collapse, just as all major world powers have...Rome, Greece, Huns, Mongols, Alexander the Great, Egypt, and on and on. Civilizations rise, then eventually topple. I think the peak of American civilization was from 1900-1980. After that, as those who thought and governed for the good of the country were replaced by those who looked for what they could "get" from the country.

But this thread started out about Ginsberg, and it has gone pretty far away from that, so rather than continue on, and further derail the Ginsberg thread, I will bow out for now. Although another thread along the lines of the last page of this thread would be very entertaining.

Thanks to all of you for your input, and mostly, thanks for actually THINKING rather than just cussing out someone you might disagree with.