A&D FX120i labscale reloading upgrade with V2 auto trickler review.

Feb 11, 2017
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This quote was from another forum:
Messaged Ceproducts about this and Trevor said class 7 is good enough. Also spoke about reloading in my garage with wide temp swings and he said to calibrate often and be sure to not touch your weight with bare hands.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
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So is it really necessary to ensure that scientific validity of the operation with a $100 check weight or would a $20 class 6 or 7 weight be sufficient for what we are doing?
Quick math...

Let's say you get a cheap 50 gram weight, it is off by 0.01 grams instead of 0.0001 grams. You've now got an error of 0.01/50 or .02%. Within your charge weight window of 40-50 grains that's going to be an error of about 0.01 grains, or half a kernel of varget. You have to get up to around 60 grain charge weight at which point the scale might round up to the next kernel and read 0.02 grains higher than "accurate".

From the factory mine was off by 0.03 grams at 50g weight. That led to charges at 45gr being off by about a kernel and charges at 60gr being off by two kernels, from my prior reference standard.

In isolation I would say it doesn't matter at all what calibration weight you use. Your charges will be repeatable and consistent and loads that you develop with the scale can be replicated as long as you keep using the same weight.

If you have prior data you need to match, then it's both about how accurate your prior scale's calibration was and whether the new calibration weight matches. It's not an issue with absolute accuracy, just comparative accuracy so that old load data is exactly the same. Odds are that a cheap weight aligns will track with your prior scale, but that depends on a bit on both the accuracy of your new weight and the calibration of the old scale.

If you have OCD, then a nice calibration weight is a nice thing to have.

And if you change lots of powder, then all your old load data is junk anyway and none of this matters. :)
 
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spife7980

Full Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Thats what I was figuring.

In that case Ill get the Class 6 weight to bring my amazon order up to the 25 bucks for prime shipping which is why Im even bothering to look at it, cart filler.
Im throwing/trickling to +/- .02 gr as is so that kernal isnt going to handicap me too much more than Im already doing to myself.
Thanks!
 

MDM

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Jan 26, 2009
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This probably wont work near as well, but I did some fine sanding on my chargemaster weight to get it to spec. 771.62gn = 50.00013g At least its a reference point to check. fx.jpg
 

MDM

Sergeant
Jan 26, 2009
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Yeah some type of bend is critical. I made a half ass cup out of a piece of scrap that works good. The tube seems to let me get a more consistent initial throw because all the kernels flow out and don’t get hung up in the bend like the straw. Not a big deal though. It all works. Love this machine.
 

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Likes: Wyldeman
Jun 16, 2017
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I bought it and I am glad I did. I didn't want to mess with spoons or whatever to get the large portion of the powder charge. It is quick with the autothrow.
 
Jun 27, 2017
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The Lee Perfect Powder Measure itself is pretty cheap. You can purchase a few and use for different powder. Need to install mine today!
 

HoustonB77

Online Training Member
Jan 28, 2014
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Call me crazy but I am not to worried about a check weight. From time to time I do check my scale against my RCBS balance but I'm not really worried about my charge weighing 44 grains even or 44.04. I just want it to weigh the same every time.
 
Likes: Safety_3rd
Jul 11, 2010
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Agreed on that point, except I'd like to be able to determine the weight difference between the Chargemaster I've been using and the newly arrived scale, should there be one, in order to see if I need to be dropping different charges with the AD scale going forward.

I'd rather not do a run on the AD of every load I developed on the CM to ensure the accuracy and velocity are up to snuff with the same charge weight from the AD, only to learn via trial/error and spent components and time that the CM was actually half a grain off compared to the AD.

Not sure I phrased that right, but I think I'm just sorta parroting what Sheldon N said earlier in the thread.
 

HoustonB77

Online Training Member
Jan 28, 2014
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Agreed on that point, except I'd like to be able to determine the weight difference between the Chargemaster I've been using and the newly arrived scale, should there be one, in order to see if I need to be dropping different charges with the AD scale going forward.

I'd rather not do a run on the AD of every load I developed on the CM to ensure the accuracy and velocity are up to snuff with the same charge weight from the AD, only to learn via trial/error and spent components and time that the CM was actually half a grain off compared to the AD.

Not sure I phrased that right, but I think I'm just sorta parroting what Sheldon N said earlier in the thread.
Try weighing the same charge on both scales and see if there is a difference.
 
Jul 6, 2017
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I would look for a class 1 or 2 weight on ebay. I bought a new Adams class 2 weight which was $50 but you can get a used class 1 on ebay for the same price as members have posted here. I didn't think of ebay or I would've gone the same route. If you do some research on the different classifications and how much the weight of the check weights can vary, its quite a bit on a class 7. The research I did suggested that a class 2 was all that was needed but if you can get a used class 1 for the same price that's the way I would go. In my research as well I found that touching the check weight with our bare hands actually adds to the weight of the check weight. I use a pair of plastic tweezers to pick up the weight.
 

mcfred

Sergeant
Feb 17, 2011
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Try weighing the same charge on both scales and see if there is a difference.
No shit, right? If your old method says you're throwing 44.000 grains and you take that and dump it into the tray on the new system and it reads the same then you're comparing apples to apples; there’s effectively no difference. If you need that extra bit of feel-good then throw 10 charges together and weigh the lot for another decimal of assurance.

A lot of you guys are over-thinking this. When a kernel's .02gr you do not need to calibrate the scale to .0000001 grain with some $700 platinum laboratory-grade mass.
 
Likes: HoustonB77
Jul 11, 2010
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No shit, right? If your old method says you're throwing 44.000 grains and you take that and dump it into the tray on the new system and it reads the same then you're comparing apples to apples; there’s effectively no difference. If you need that extra bit of feel-good then throw 10 charges together and weigh the lot for another decimal of assurance.

A lot of you guys are over-thinking this. When a kernel's .02gr you do not need to calibrate the scale to .0000001 grain with some $700 platinum laboratory-grade mass.
Certainly don't think I need to read that many zeroes to the right, but calibrating both scales with a known quantity is necessary from the outset and I'm not sure how much I trust the check/calibration weights which came with the CM to use on the AD.
 
Likes: HoustonB77

mcfred

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Feb 17, 2011
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And I'm sure that you, TofP, have a dedicated 110v x 60Hz electrical mains conditioner to supply electricity to the scale, you have it set up on a dedicated, incredibly stable, level, flat surface, in a climate-controlled room with no air currents, and you load with a grounding strap attached to your wrist to eliminate static electricity. You store your powder in that same climate controlled room so that the weight/density of the powder doesn't change with the relative humidity etc. etc.

What's "necessary" can get you chasing your tail. What matters is the end result: Does it shoot? I daresay that all this equipment is more consistent sans whoopdeedoo calibration than 99% of the shooters at range where ±1 kernel of power might actually come into play. Might as well subscribe to all the Voodoo the Benchrest guys practice. There are more variables than that last kernel of powder.

I got my Rice Lake 50g check weight the other day and check my scale. Was showing 50.04 so it was 2 kernels over. Calibrated it with the new weight and it reads dead on 50.0g every time now.
And how did it compare to what you thought was 44.000gr from your previous weighing equipment? Now that you know you're "two kernels over" have you put it over a chronograph to see what 2 kernals net? Have you re-done all your temperature-dependent velocity tables to account for the the 5fps difference shooting in early morning versus late afternoon?

Just sayin', guys. We're getting pretty far down in the weeds here.
 
Jul 11, 2010
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Doing some of the above, but not all.

And certainly not looking for the absolute minimum in weight dispersion as you are right in that it becomes a point of diminishing returns, but having a $15 calibration weight to ensure the scale is weighing true seems like a sound investment when comparing all the time, effort, and money put into the rest of the ELR game.

This particular scale and dispenser/trickler combo is also not built just for accuracy, but speed....and that increase in rounds produced per hour costs.
 

Gilly

On Target
Feb 27, 2009
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I've had my FX300 for a few years. At the time I bought it, the cost was around $25 more than the 120 with the same resolution/precision plus a 320 gram capacity. You never know when you might have to reload a howitzer, after all.
I recently bought the Autotrickler, then added the dumper 6 weeks later. I never even tried to use the plastic cups that come with dumper, I just used an aluminum pan I already had. To prevent dumped kernels from bouncing out of the pan, I put a dogleg bend in the end of the tube (drinking straw) which does a great job of decelerating the powder right before it hits the weighing pan.
Also, I started weighing my charges in grams rather than grains. The balance has 1 milligram resolution so it makes more sense to me to do the math beforehand for potentially a little higher accuracy.
With this combination, roughly 90% of my charges are -0/+1 milligram of the target, and it doles them out much faster than I could do it manually with no fuss.
For me it was a no brainer, being as I already had the balance.
A friend was so impressed he went out and bought the kit, FX120 and all. At the time I bought my AnD, the best price I found on the FX120 was around $620 and it's an even better deal at $500.
A few years back, a SH member found someone selling the FX120 for closer to $400. IIRC around a half dozen or more members took advantage of that deal. Good catch, that one.

*edit* I went out to take a picture of my setup and I misspoke (mistyped?) above. I used the plastic cup provided with the thrower plus a dogleg bend in the straw. Still no kernels bouncing out of the pan, though.

View attachment 6874273
Any issues or concerns running the 300 with charges being a lower % capacity as compared to the 120??? With all the orders on rebate can’t find a 120 setup in stock but see a 300 I can order. If I’m not mistaken the resolution is the same so maybe I’m overthinking it.
 
Jun 27, 2017
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Has anyone got their rebate yet? Just got an email from A&D, stating that rebate is 30% off list price of $1065. So they won't honor it. That said I replied telling them no where on their rebate form does it say "list price". This is false advertisement. Not happy.
 
Jul 11, 2010
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Has anyone got their rebate yet? Just got an email from A&D, stating that rebate is 30% off list price of $1065. So they won't honor it. That said I replied telling them no where on their rebate form does it say "list price". This is false advertisement. Not happy.
Will be cancelling my order on the scale, auto-thrower, and auto-trickler if they play that game. Realized I was only going to get 30% off the scale, not the whole setup, but that seems like a shady rebate program, especially since they've been on here promoting it.
 
Sep 27, 2017
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Wicked shady, Wtf... like you guys said above they were on here promoting it!! You would have think they called the company and verified discount. I can't imagine how many people this is really going to piss off if it holds true.
 
Jun 27, 2017
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Where can I get one for $500!! They are all out of stock. Any backorders available?
I purchased mine through DWS (Data Weighing Systems) not sure if it's still in stock there, but you can check.

Also got a reply from DWS. Sales Rep says, A&D will honor the rebate. Kudos to DWS. I hope A&D will actually honor their rebate too.
 
Jul 11, 2010
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Just got an email from A&D with regards to my submitted rebate form and CE electronic receipt email for the scale, thrower, and trickler and A&D is asking for an itemized receipt so they can process the rebate.

Forwarded to CE to get one showing the cost of the scale separate from the thrower and trickler, but if they can’t get one to me by 31 March I guess I’ll cancel and try again in the future.

Seems like the rebate idea got made without much effort put into the process of how it would be executed and honored....
 
Jun 16, 2017
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Just got an email from A&D with regards to my submitted rebate form and CE electronic receipt email for the scale, thrower, and trickler and A&D is asking for an itemized receipt so they can process the rebate.

Forwarded to CE to get one showing the cost of the scale separate from the thrower and trickler,

.
I emailed CE to separate the scale from the Auto trickler bundle, after I waited over a day,I ended up having to call and they then emailed me a new receipt
 
Apr 8, 2017
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I cannot get CE to reply to my emails, I guess I will have to call tomorrow morning. I've sent two separate emails, one last week, and one two days ago and neither have been answered. These guys are riding the #strugglebus when it comes to e-commerce customer service.
 
Jul 6, 2017
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I cannot get CE to reply to my emails, I guess I will have to call tomorrow morning. I've sent two separate emails, one last week, and one two days ago and neither have been answered. These guys are riding the #strugglebus when it comes to e-commerce customer service.
I called them today and they’ve posted on one of the FB pages today as well. I talked to them directly though. They were able to get me the proper invoice I needed for the rebate and they informed me the rebate was still going and there was just a misinformed employee at A&D that was sending out emails with info that was incorrect.
 
Likes: stereo.pete

scudzuki

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 1, 2012
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Any issues or concerns running the 300 with charges being a lower % capacity as compared to the 120??? With all the orders on rebate can’t find a 120 setup in stock but see a 300 I can order. If I’m not mistaken the resolution is the same so maybe I’m overthinking it.
Same resolution and precision as the 120, but nearly 3 times the capacity.
No downside other than the higher price.
It's nuts that they're all out of stock, I guess the rebate has increased demand.
 
Sep 1, 2017
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A&D is Honoring the rebate, AND 's marketing manager that was not on the same page as the rest of the company when it came to the rebate

We send out Itemized invoices once we send out the orders

I am sorry for the delay in responses we are going through the orders as fast as we can
Thank you for your business
 
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