A Brand New shooter: What should I be using for trajectory?

brian2382

New Hide Member
Jan 30, 2018
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0
1
#1
Hey guys, alright so I am not a complete noob, but I am for anything out past 300meters. I am finally about to get into longer range shooting. I have access to a range which goes out to 1000m, and I anticipate that being the furthest I ever shoot out to. but simply, don't know how..

My question is what should I be using, or how should I be going about figuring out the trajectory/ballistics for my specific rifle/ammunition?

I HATE to post a thread, as I am normally a lurker by nature on forums, but I don't even know where to start on this, nor what to search. I hear about apps being used, which is cool to be mobile, but is there not a free website which does it for you? What app would you recommend for a new shooter (new being key, I'd rather an app which is 90% accurate and easy to use right now over one that's 99% accurate but super confusing for new shooters). Big bonus points if my wife can understand it too.

I watched the entire 'art of precision shooting' from magpul and thought it was great but it just talks about their specific device, to figure out the holds.



My rifle: Brand new, unfired Tikka T3x Tac A3 24" barrel, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor

Scope: Vortex Viper PTS Gen II 5-25 FFP, ebr-2c MRAD.

accessories: Atlas Bipod, Spuhr mount 3602

The ammunition: 500 rounds of sellier & bellot 6.5 creedmoor The ballistics which I don't understand lol
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,780
2,453
113
Dallas, TX
#2
Lots of Apps for your phone.
Are you using an iPhone or an Android phone?

Pretty much the easiest way.
Put in your basic information & get approximate scope settings for the ranges you wish.
 

tna9001

Sergeant of the Hide
Aug 4, 2017
455
100
43
Asheville NC
#4
I think the Kestrel is great to correlate felt wind to a value and to see what effect a wind value has on trees ect but, I much prefer the Garmin 701. The user interface of the Garmin is much better than the Kestrel. If i was to do it again, I’d buy the cheapest Kestrel I could find and the Garmin.

Applied Ballistics is hard to beat for a newbie, it is very easy to use and virtually eliminates any truing if you’ve got good chronograph data and use one of their custom curves (inside of supersonic range). The Applied Balistic website is a great resource to learn about ballistics.
 

brian2382

New Hide Member
Jan 30, 2018
14
0
1
#5
Lots of Apps for your phone.
Are you using an iPhone or an Android phone?

Pretty much the easiest way.
Put in your basic information & get approximate scope settings for the ranges you wish.
I am using an android phone. Which would be best?

I think the Kestrel is great to correlate felt wind to a value and to see what effect a wind value has on trees ect but, I much prefer the Garmin 701. The user interface of the Garmin is much better than the Kestrel. If i was to do it again, I’d buy the cheapest Kestrel I could find and the Garmin.

Applied Ballistics is hard to beat for a newbie, it is very easy to use and virtually eliminates any truing if you’ve got good chronograph data and use one of their custom curves (inside of supersonic range). The Applied Balistic website is a great resource to learn about ballistics.
Holy crap, $30 for an App lol. I do not have a chronograph, nor do I have the funds for one, or a Kestrel, or a Garmin. What would be the cheapest alternative without buying another piece of equipment?
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,780
2,453
113
Dallas, TX
#6
There are some really cheap ones like Shooter for $10

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.kndy.shooterfull&hl=en_US

More complicated expensive ones like Applied Ballistics for $30

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appliedballisticsllc.appliedballistics

You could play with the free Lapua Ballistics
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Lapua.LapuaBallistics
(Limited to Lapua bullets)

While a chronograph helps, if you don't have one, make sure you have a really good 100 yard zero, then get all the information correctly entered with the estimated speed and then shoot some 200yrd and 300yrd targets and adjust your speed settings so you match the impact points & that should get you started till you can spend a bit more for a cheap chronograph.

You'll want to at least get a cheap wind meter, no need to get a Kestrel one, you can get some cheap basic things on eBay or online.
 

tna9001

Sergeant of the Hide
Aug 4, 2017
455
100
43
Asheville NC
#8
I am using an android phone. Which would be best?



Holy crap, $30 for an App lol. I do not have a chronograph, nor do I have the funds for one, or a Kestrel, or a Garmin. What would be the cheapest alternative without buying another piece of equipment?
A chronograph is really a necessity. If you don’t know exactly how fast the bullet is traveling your going to spend a lot of time truing your data especially using factory ammo.
 

Luke

Sergeant
May 29, 2002
943
47
28
Colorado
#10
Get the free version of Strelok. Should do just about everything you want. What elevation is the range at? I bet a lot of guys could give you their come-ups for similar conditions and you'd be pretty dang close.
 

RNWRKNP

Sophisticated Redneck
Dec 13, 2017
1,290
1,484
113
PHX, AZ
#11
“Ballistic”. http://ballisticapp.com/. If my dumb ass can use it to effect so can you😉 really like the HUD (heads up display) feature. Swipe of the finger to change distances with immediate scope adjustments for wind and distance. Support videos on line. Use it on my phone and IPad and paid like $30 for the pad and $12.99 C90A1E9C-7E11-4757-9ED3-38EBF7211654.png
 

Skookum

Flattus Domini
May 6, 2017
844
740
93
Your mom's
#13
Without a chronograph you are going to be left with the live fire drop to determine speed. You will need to fire a statistically significant number of shots, meaning 7 or more, and find the mathmatical center of the group. Then, adjust the speed in your app until the drops match. This needs to be done at a minimum of 500 yards to get the resolution you need to be accurate.

If you don't have a place to put your gun on paper at 500+ yards then it will be difficult at best.
 
Last edited:
Likes: stwcattle
Feb 18, 2012
110
25
28
Middle Tennessee
#15
I started out with the $10 shooter app. Still use it. It will get you close enough to begin learning. I’ve set up shooter for a couple buddies that don’t shoot much. Get dope at a couple ranges and adjust velocity accordingly. Good place to start for $10
 

DocUSMCRetired

Applied Ballistics
Apr 16, 2014
888
116
43
Texas
www.appliedballisticsllc.com
#16
Start here and see if this helps: http://appliedballisticsllc.com/ballistics-educational-resources/articles/

Yes our app is $30 but how many other apps have a full on ballistics lab, with data from the field from actual users? How many apps have "litz" in them because they just simply take our data and input it? It is much cheaper to copy paste, than it is to run a ballistics lab, and that is what you are getting with our app. Plus AB Connect™ which is a really cool system. Our server evaluates tested bullets, and if the data is far enough off, the bullet is updated in your app in real time. Check it out: http://appliedballisticsllc.com/products/ab-connect/ and look here: http://appliedballisticsllc.com/ballistics-educational-resources/custom-drag-curves/.
 

X-rayop

Online Training Member
Dec 10, 2017
7
3
3
Orange County Ca
#17
Hey guys, alright so I am not a complete noob, but I am for anything out past 300meters. I am finally about to get into longer range shooting. I have access to a range which goes out to 1000m, and I anticipate that being the furthest I ever shoot out to. but simply, don't know how..

My question is what should I be using, or how should I be going about figuring out the trajectory/ballistics for my specific rifle/ammunition?

I HATE to post a thread, as I am normally a lurker by nature on forums, but I don't even know where to start on this, nor what to search. I hear about apps being used, which is cool to be mobile, but is there not a free website which does it for you? What app would you recommend for a new shooter (new being key, I'd rather an app which is 90% accurate and easy to use right now over one that's 99% accurate but super confusing for new shooters). Big bonus points if my wife can understand it too.

I watched the entire 'art of precision shooting' from magpul and thought it was great but it just talks about their specific device, to figure out the holds.



My rifle: Brand new, unfired Tikka T3x Tac A3 24" barrel, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor

Scope: Vortex Viper PTS Gen II 5-25 FFP, ebr-2c MRAD.

accessories: Atlas Bipod, Spuhr mount 3602

The ammunition: 500 rounds of sellier & bellot 6.5 creedmoor The ballistics which I don't understand lol
I
I am using an android phone. Which would be best?



Holy crap, $30 for an App lol. I do not have a chronograph, nor do I have the funds for one, or a Kestrel, or a Garmin. What would be the cheapest alternative without buying another piece of equipment?
Hey guys, alright so I am not a complete noob, but I am for anything out past 300meters. I am finally about to get into longer range shooting. I have access to a range which goes out to 1000m, and I anticipate that being the furthest I ever shoot out to. but simply, don't know how..

My question is what should I be using, or how should I be going about figuring out the trajectory/ballistics for my specific rifle/ammunition?

I HATE to post a thread, as I am normally a lurker by nature on forums, but I don't even know where to start on this, nor what to search. I hear about apps being used, which is cool to be mobile, but is there not a free website which does it for you? What app would you recommend for a new shooter (new being key, I'd rather an app which is 90% accurate and easy to use right now over one that's 99% accurate but super confusing for new shooters). Big bonus points if my wife can understand it too.

I watched the entire 'art of precision shooting' from magpul and thought it was great but it just talks about their specific device, to figure out the holds.



My rifle: Brand new, unfired Tikka T3x Tac A3 24" barrel, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor

Scope: Vortex Viper PTS Gen II 5-25 FFP, ebr-2c MRAD.

accessories: Atlas Bipod, Spuhr mount 3602

The ammunition: 500 rounds of sellier & bellot 6.5 creedmoor The ballistics which I don't understand lol
Brian I have a Chrony chronograph I do not use any more. If you are interested I can send it no charge.
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Jul 10, 2012
396
49
28
Out West
#18
So much good stuff out there for free. I would play the free stuff and once you have a handle on it, choose an app for purchase with the features you like. Most of the apps have a free version and then a paid version with advanced features. Spend some time following threads that discuss the "how to" this site is very informative. As far as free apps or free software on websites I am aware of the following - and there are many more:

JBM
Applied Ballistics
Hornady
Lapua
G7
and I believe most of the bullet manufacturers as well. Pick one you like and use it, they all get the job done.
 

demolitionman

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 26, 2013
1,114
350
83
Ohio
#19
hornady 4DOF is free and work great.
X100. This app really computes great solutions if you are using good inputs.
Shooter APP is another solver I like to use mainly because it was the first solver I ever used and I’ve become super comfortable with it. It’s not the most robust solver but I’ve had excellent results with it over many years and I find it super easy to use.
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Aug 10, 2001
5,496
767
113
Arizona, good place for me...
#20
I use JBM and Hornady.

When I first started out going from 300yd to 1000yd with the .260/142gr load, I was told sight in at 100yd, then increase the elevation by 30MOA. Fire and observe impact. Go down by 1MOA at a time until hits appear.

It got me on the target center in 5 shots.

My 1000yd zero was 100yd zero plus 28MOA. Yours will probably be more like 29-30MOA. Higher altitudes mean you will require less up adjustment.

Greg
 
May 15, 2011
345
23
18
69
#21
I have used a few, and out to 1000yd the results are virtually the same. I will suggest Strelok Pro for several reasons. It has a decent instruction, faq section. The built in data base includes the details for loaded ammo as well as bullets, so use this as a starting point for velocity and then the truing function to fine tune. Cost $10 as I recall. For ballistic apps the main point of confusion is usually getting correct BP and Strelok can read your internal pressure probe for best results (yes nearly all phones have this).
 

brian2382

New Hide Member
Jan 30, 2018
14
0
1
#23
Can someone help me figure out what I am doing wrong? Ultimately I just want a nice easy dope disk to put in my scope cover for my trajectory in mils up to 1,000 meters.

I previously zero'd at about 90 meters (measured via google maps distance calculator, no range finder). I took it shooting 4 days ago and I shot at the 300 meter target (270m according to google maps distance calculator). My point of impact was almost exactly 4 inches (10cm) low from my point of aim. Looking through my scope that was about .37 mils. Doing the math, that makes sense. 10cm / .37 mils x 10 = range, Range = 275 meters.

Here comes the problem:

First, I bought the shooters app and put in my information. (seen below)
The shooter app tells me that my adjustments should be U 1.2 mils, and according to the table that is a 13.2" (34 cm) drop. This is significantly off of what I found to be true, by about 9" (23cm).

Second, I wanted to find a free online calculator to make fix whats wrong. so I used this online shooters calculator and put in my information (below). It comes up with at 275 yards the elevation being 1.02 mils, or a drop of 10" (25cm). Once again, pretty far away from what I found to be true, but also pretty big difference from what the shooters app came in with.

What am I screwing up here? Can someone please help me figure out my trajectory so I can make a silly little chart and not feel like a moron anymore lol.

My inputted information:
-The initial velocity is a very consistent 2571 fps average coming out of my Tikka (I bought a chrono for this exact reason).
- My optic is the Vortex PST Gen II 5-25 ebrc-2 MRAD with a 1.5" Spuhr mount ( I believe this is 2.7" over bore correct me if I am wrong).
- 90 meter zero
-Assuming no shooting angle, no wind, zero at 100, 60 degree F temp, and 60% relative humidity.
-The G1 Ballistic coefficient is 0.548 (according to the box)
- G7 Ballistic Coefficient is 0.275 (also according to the box, I am very ignorant on this tbh).

Box of Ammo I am using:



Rifle:
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Jul 10, 2012
396
49
28
Out West
#24
Can someone help me figure out what I am doing wrong? Ultimately I just want a nice easy dope disk to put in my scope cover for my trajectory in mils up to 1,000 meters.

I previously zero'd at about 90 meters (measured via google maps distance calculator, no range finder). I took it shooting 4 days ago and I shot at the 300 meter target (270m according to google maps distance calculator). My point of impact was almost exactly 4 inches (10cm) low from my point of aim. Looking through my scope that was about .37 mils. Doing the math, that makes sense. 10cm / .37 mils x 10 = range, Range = 275 meters.

Here comes the problem:

First, I bought the shooters app and put in my information. (seen below)
The shooter app tells me that my adjustments should be U 1.2 mils, and according to the table that is a 13.2" (34 cm) drop. This is significantly off of what I found to be true, by about 9" (23cm).

Second, I wanted to find a free online calculator to make fix whats wrong. so I used this online shooters calculator and put in my information (below). It comes up with at 275 yards the elevation being 1.02 mils, or a drop of 10" (25cm). Once again, pretty far away from what I found to be true, but also pretty big difference from what the shooters app came in with.

What am I screwing up here? Can someone please help me figure out my trajectory so I can make a silly little chart and not feel like a moron anymore lol.

My inputted information:
-The initial velocity is a very consistent 2571 fps average coming out of my Tikka (I bought a chrono for this exact reason).
- My optic is the Vortex PST Gen II 5-25 ebrc-2 MRAD with a 1.5" Spuhr mount ( I believe this is 2.7" over bore correct me if I am wrong).
- 90 meter zero
-Assuming no shooting angle, no wind, zero at 100, 60 degree F temp, and 60% relative humidity.
-The G1 Ballistic coefficient is 0.548 (according to the box)
- G7 Ballistic Coefficient is 0.275 (also according to the box, I am very ignorant on this tbh).

Box of Ammo I am using:



Rifle:
You've got a lot of variables to account for here, for example:
-environmental data (barometric/station pressure, temperature, altitude, etc.) you don't mention this at all. But denser air makes your bullet lose speed faster than thinner air
-Scope repeatability. Have you run a tracking test on your turrets to make sure 1 mil is really a mil? or 10 mils is really 10? If the scope isn't tracking correctly you don't stand a chance here.
-are you shooting a group at distance and measuring to the center of your group? Not just hitting the target once and calling it good.
-The drop data on the box shows that you have approx 14" of drop at 300 yards. That's not close to your 4".


I ran some numbers for you on Hornady's free calculator but something isn't right with your data. You really need to go shoot at several different ranges and document your results, then get the app/computer to match your real world data. I'll try to dig you up a link from LL where he explains this in detail.
 

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brian2382

New Hide Member
Jan 30, 2018
14
0
1
#26
You've got a lot of variables to account for here, for example:
-environmental data (barometric/station pressure, temperature, altitude, etc.) you don't mention this at all. But denser air makes your bullet lose speed faster than thinner air
-Scope repeatability. Have you run a tracking test on your turrets to make sure 1 mil is really a mil? or 10 mils is really 10? If the scope isn't tracking correctly you don't stand a chance here.
-are you shooting a group at distance and measuring to the center of your group? Not just hitting the target once and calling it good.
-The drop data on the box shows that you have approx 14" of drop at 300 yards. That's not close to your 4".


I ran some numbers for you on Hornady's free calculator but something isn't right with your data. You really need to go shoot at several different ranges and document your results, then get the app/computer to match your real world data. I'll try to dig you up a link from LL where he explains this in detail.
It was about 65 degrees out, maybe 80% relative humidity since it had drizzled hours earlier. altitude is 43' above sea level. Do those factors typically make that big of a mil difference out to 300 meters? (that sounds sarcastic, but its an honest question).

I have not tested the scope reliability, I should probably do that next time I go to the range. But I did not adjust the scope for this one. I shot center of the target point of aim with the cross hair since I didnt have any data to adjust the scope or hold over. (Although I don't plan on adjusting the scope much anyway when I shoot (ebrc-2 reticle). Maybe Ill still have to, idk, not enough experiance yet.) I knew it would hit low, but I didnt know how low, so I was going to measure the mills after the first few rounds so I had more accurate data.

I shoot in 3 round groupings. My final zero groupings (the range session prior) was three rounds at the 90ish meters (cant know for sure without range finder I guess) grouped at 0.58". When we went out to 300 meters it was 5 round groupings since I was letting my buddies shoot it too. the groupings probably averaged a 3" spread and were all consistently about 4" below our point of aim. no scope adjustments.



This is a stupid question, but can wind lift a bullet up further? There were some small gusts of wind, nothing crazy though. I wouldnt even be able to place a mph to it though. We do shoot on the top of this 10' berm, so is it possible that wind maybe lifted it up...? I figured 10 feet in elevation over 300 meters really shouldnt make a difference.
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Jul 10, 2012
396
49
28
Out West
#27
If you aren't dialing the scope than that isn't the issue. Atmospherics aren't going to change that much within 300 yards either. So really the only items I see are: how are you verifying velocity and how are you verifying target distance? An error here could make it hard to follow. Its recommended to know EXACTLY what the zero distance is and also the distance to the targets you are using for drop verification. I would recommend writing everything down (atmospheric data, velocity, holdover, etc) while at the range and verifying the distance to each of the targets with a range finder of known quality and then entering the data into an app until it matches up. Also is there a reason you are mixing meters and yards or am I misunderstanding your posts?
 
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