6X5 Thread V3.0

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
So my new rimfire is finally complete, maybe (I am still trying to decide if I want to bed it or not). Here are the details:

-Anschutz 1827B action
-5020 trigger set fairly heavy
-Benchmark 3 groove 15 twist @ 26 5/8" installed by Mark Penrod
-Champions Choice bloop tube (for shooting with irons)
-Anschutz 1907 stock that I modified for the repeater action
-DIP 25 MOA pic rail
-Nightforce ATACR F1 Mil-R 4-16X42
-APA rings
-Harris BR-S bipod

I have not been shooting much this year at all, so I am pretty rusty overall. I have not lot tested any ammo through this rifle, and the Eley target has 2 different lots in there. Today was not a great day to test accuracy, but I rarely have a chance to shoot I just had to suck it up. The weather today was in the low to mid 70's with 0-10 MPH winds that were switching from 3 to 6 to 9 O'clock. Basically it was a tough day to shoot rimfire at 100 yards. My process today was whenever the wind either dropped off or held a steady blow I would run a group as fast as I could to keep the conditions. You can clearly see this in the POI shifts and erratic flyers, but it gave me a good indicator that this may be a good shooter. I am especially pleased that it shoots Center X as well as or almost as well as Eley Match (black box). Everything was shot @ 100 yards prone with a small TAB bag and bipod as seen in the picture.

There will be more to come. I am looking forward to putting irons on it and slinging up prone!

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Oct 17, 2013
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Nice rifle JB. I too have not got to shoot much this year so far. The Winter/Spring was cold, rainy and blustery and we never had a calm day. Summer has been HOT, wet, and stormy and again we have rarely had a calm day. I just got back from a week in MOAB and am still marveling at the open spaces out there.

Irish
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
Nice rifle JB. I too have not got to shoot much this year so far. The Winter/Spring was cold, rainy and blustery and we never had a calm day. Summer has been HOT, wet, and stormy and again we have rarely had a calm day. I just got back from a week in MOAB and am still marveling at the open spaces out there.

Irish

Thank you Irish!
Are you wheeling in MOAB, mountain biking, or just hanging out? I am into the first two almost in excess. Training for and racing my bike is the primary reason I haven't been shooting much. Maybe we have discussed this in the past, if so I apologize (I have a short memory sometimes...). None the less I would love to get out to MOAB and ride the Whole Enchilada! Here is my current race bike and my Jeep that I have been teaching my girls to drive and do some wheeling here in Maine:

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Apr 17, 2010
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jbell, that's an unusual build. I will watch with interest as you shake it out.

I take it the picture is Emily and Peyton. I know the original 6x5 was some five years ago but they've gone from little kids to young ladies. I clearly remember the seven and eight year old that were ahead of me in the standings. I was in my mid sixties then but looking at those two now puts in a different perspective. I really am old. :):)
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Very cool JBell!

The bike intrigues me quite a bit. I've been looking at them trying to decide the route to go for getting started without having buyer's remorse later on.
I have been addicted to bikes (of all kinds) since 1991, so I have a pretty good grasp on the community. I am constantly building new bikes and selling old ones (by old I mean like 1 year or less, I have issues). So if you ever have any questions feel free to give me a shout any time! Ill get you my cell and you can call or text me as much as you want, I love talking bikes & guns...
 
Likes: Rolltide

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
jbell, that's an unusual build. I will watch with interest as you shake it out.

I take it the picture is Emily and Peyton. I know the original 6x5 was some five years ago but they've gone from little kids to young ladies. I clearly remember the seven and eight year old that were ahead of me in the standings. I was in my mid sixties then but looking at those two now puts in a different perspective. I really am old. :):)

HA, good memory! Yes Emily (my youngest who is about to turn 12 on Saturday) is in the blue jacket, and Payton my oldest is in yellow is now 13!! It is crazy how fast time goes by. It is so fun teaching them to drive the Jeep and how to respect it when off in the gnarly stuff in 4 low with the lockers in. They are getting the hang of it pretty fast. However I think this winter they may be leaning how to put a clutch in it, HAHA!

Thanks for the comments guys! It would be so cool if some day we (those of us who have been around a while) could get together and sling some lead. If anyone is ever in Maine please reach out, I would love to at least meet up over a coffee or beer.
 
Oct 17, 2013
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Morehead, KY
JB, We were 4x4ing on some of the trails out in MOAB. I had bought an old Isuzu Trooper out in Idaho in May to go fly fishing in Montana. I ended up leaving it in Ogden, UT to do some work on it by a mechanic I met out there. Once fully up to snuff for cross country, the wife and I flew out to pick it up and terrorize MOAB's trails, some of which frankly terrorized me. Great fun. I wish I had allocated more time for MOAB as it has way more to offer than I had ever imagined. We then drove cross country stopping in the Rockies for more fishing and mountain climbing. I used to ride road bicycles but never got into the mtn bike thing. I stopped a couple of years ago due to a health issue that was getting aggravated by the bike. Glad to see that you are teaching your young ladies how to drive at an early age. I did that with my kids too. We do need to figure out some way to get together before we are all too old, lol. My annual treks to New England have been placed on hold for a few years with the arrival of two new grand babies and my wife's maternal desire to baby sit every day. But when we do head back that way, I will let you know. We travel a lot and love Maine. And since I took up fly fishing, I really want to explore it more.

I attached a couple of pics from MOAB. In one you can see the trail at the bottom of the canyon about a mile away. You cannot imagine the gnarly stuff we had to drive across to get there. One lane wide, no guard rail, no parachute and about a 1000 ft shear drop to the bottom. I don't have any decent pics of the truck. It is a faded old desert rat but gets around good. The whole time I was out there, I kept saying, I wish I had my long range rifle with me. You can shoot for miles out there.

Irish
 

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jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
So awesome man! I fly fish up here some, but I feel like North GA, East TN, West NC, & PA have better stream fly fishing. But Maine is pretty sweet!

Sound like a great trip y’all had!
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
I was able to get out and try the Anschutz at 230 yards today. The weather was a bit unforgiving, challenging to say the least. With one front moving out and another coming in the winds kicked my ass. It would be steady full value one minute and then come right at me the next anywhere from 4 to 10 mph. My method for dealing with it was to pick a condition and put 5 rounds on target before it changed, so I was shooting pretty damn fast. It is a good thing the Anschutz feeds and ejects like a boss!

It isn't anything impressive at all but here it is:

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Here is one of the rifle and my shooting position:

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I am looking forward to getting out with a little better conditions soon. The top 3 targets were shot with Center X and the bottom 3 were Lapua Midas + for reference.
 
Likes: deltawiskey

EddieE

Sergeant
Mar 20, 2017
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I was able to get out and try the Anschutz at 230 yards today. The weather was a bit unforgiving, challenging to say the least. With one front moving out and another coming in the winds kicked my ass. It would be steady full value one minute and then come right at me the next anywhere from 4 to 10 mph. My method for dealing with it was to pick a condition and put 5 rounds on target before it changed, so I was shooting pretty damn fast. It is a good thing the Anschutz feeds and ejects like a boss!

It isn't anything impressive at all but here it is:

Here is one of the rifle and my shooting position:

I am looking forward to getting out with a little better conditions soon. The top 3 targets were shot with Center X and the bottom 3 were Lapua Midas + for reference.
Nice shooting...At that distance, way too many variables to deal with. That is a heck of a rifle. What bore guide do you use for your 54 action?
 
Apr 21, 2012
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200 yards, CZ 455 SOF, set trigger, Lilja 17hmr heavy barrel
Mueller 8-32x44, Sinclair bipod and bean bags
CCI A17 17 grain 17hmr, wind variable 2-4 mph



results at 200 measured: 1.87, 1.60, 3.82, 1.52, 1.62, 1.76 Average 2.03 inches 0.97 moa

Best 1.52 inches 0.73 moa



With the chronograph out front, it's easy to track vertical spread caused by mv differences.

If the half-third rule is applied (1/2 the distance = 1/3 the spread)
at 200 yards produced a 2.03 inch avg
so at 100 yards you'd get 0.67 inch avg
and at 50 yards a 0.22 inch average
 
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jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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The groups look very nice and even. I am curious about the wind direction and how that wall affects it. I can see if it is coming right to left then you may be in a bit of a eddy, but if its left to right you could be dealing with some weird swirling conditions depending on how far off the wall your shooting position is.
 
Apr 21, 2012
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The wind was constantly shifting, depending on where the closest cloud shadow was.
No consistent direction, 2 to 4 mph, due to solar heating and lift.
Some of the random spread is due to poor bullet assembly.
Run out on the ballistic tips isn't always on center.
Visible tip wobble when a cartridge is rolled on a flat surface.
Most of the vertical is MV spread.
CCI has a problem with producing rimfire with consistent MV's.
Same rifle, same setup, 200 yards, 50 shots same ammo
 
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jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
I gotcha, I wonder if the MV is from amount of powder variation more so than other factors like primer variation or inconsistent neck tension. If it is powder then one could pull a lot of bullets and rework the charges. It would be an interesting project. However I would venture a guess its a stack up of tolerances and not any one particular thing...
 
Apr 21, 2012
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I'd go with primer and bullet seating as being the primary cause of mv spread.
Last I read, CCI is still hand spreading primer material on a punch plate and then tapping it into the brass.



Pulled a few cartridges apart and the powder amounts are very tight.
Look inside and the amount of primer visible varies.
Some hardly fill the rim, leaves bare spots.
Others have excess primer running up the insides of the brass.
 
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Oct 17, 2013
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Morehead, KY
I do wish we could get Eley or Lapua to make some 17 rimfire ammo. Mach2, HMR and WSM. Wonder if any of them check this site? I bought a 17 Mach2 this year and while the accuracy is adequate, the only ammo I can get for it these days is Hornady. It is not bad but I really wish Eley still made it. Would love to have some loaded up to 10x tolerances. I do think that the accuracy is driven by a stack of variables including the powder & primer charges, the headspacing and the bullet weight and concentricity variance. I recall a report when the 17 Mach2 first came out that the only bullet available came from Hornady and they, Remington, CCI and Eley all used it. They said that part of the accuracy challenge was to mfg those tiny little ballistic tip projectiles and to get them all the same. They are so small that all of the equipment variables impacted the quality of the component more than it would have on a larger projectile. I attached a pic of a 17 Mach2 slug that was found in a squirrel last weekend. It is only the jacket and was under the skin on the opposite side from the entry wound. The results were explosive but mostly retained within the tgt.

Irish
 

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Apr 21, 2012
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The label on the 17HM2 may say Hornady
but the manufacture date code and box are CCI.
Made by CCI, labeled for Hornady.

See that pic above regarding CCI primer application...
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
Nice JBell! I noticed the bloop tube on the above pic, are you a sling shooter as well?
Years ago I was, and I really want to get back into it. I always enjoyed it and so when I built this rifle being able to properly shoot irons was a requirement! I haven't taken the time to get fit for a coat yet or even order a high quality set of sights, but I am looking forward to it.
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Bad ass man! I love the whole package, sweet rifle, cool targets (I keep a deck of cards in my range kit as targets too), beautiful range! Get me the group sizes and distance it was shot at and Ill get you on the results. I look forward to more from you and your Anschutz!
 

Middle Man

Sergeant of the Hide
Oct 15, 2012
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The label on the 17HM2 may say Hornady
but the manufacture date code and box are CCI.
Made by CCI, labeled for Hornady.

See that pic above regarding CCI primer application...
CCI produces (OEM) all the HMR & HM2 no matter the brand name on the label. Hornady does not have the capability (machines) to produce their own rimfire product.
 
Jan 21, 2011
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Ok, you'll have to pardon my ignorance on the measuring side of things but this is how I did it.
Top left .571
Top right .787
Middle left .624
Middle right .549
Bottom left .826
Bottom right .613
Average.661
All shot at 50 yds image.jpeg
 
Jan 15, 2010
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Measure the outside of the widest part of the group and subtract 1 bullet diameter(actually 2 halves of a bullet diameter). If I read your caliper correctly it should be: .71 minus .224 equals .486 center to center.
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
Balataspin, I have you on the results. You are measuring correctly: outside of the lead mark on the target and then subtract bullet diameter. There has been extensive discussion as to how much to subtract for bullet diameter over many years here on the Hide and other sites. As you know bullet diameter is 0.224" but the paper never reflects that (**NOT TO DISAGREE WITH QUICKDRAW BY ANY MEANS, just passing on some info that has been hashed over a bit**), but if you measure the actual mark left on the paper by the bullet you will see they are hardly ever 0.224" in diameter. I think this is because of how the paper target reacts during bullet impact, different paper will show different size holes from the same ammo shot out of the same barrel. The most proper way to measure actual CTC group size is to measure a few individual bullet holes in the target being used and take the average of those, use that diameter to determine group size. To keep things simple we (the people involved in the discussions years ago decided to use 0.222" as the standard, so everyone was on the same playing field. 0.222" seemed to be about the average single bullet hole diameter across several different target materials.

But to be honest I most certainly do NOT care what you use as long as it is close, because there is nothing on the line here this thread to me is about shooting, sharing information, pushing your own abilities, and seeing what is possible. This is not my thread, I only try and keep it rolling, this thread is for everyone. Thank you all for contributing as it has become a pretty large sample of what is possible in the world of 22lr, keep the targets coming guys and gals!
 
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jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
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Lewiston, ME
Nice shooting Eddie. Only two questions:

What rifle?
I count 9 targets, this thread we take 6 consecutively fired 5 round targets to get an average size. So unfortunately we can not pick the 6 best targets, just the 6 best that were shot consecutively. That way everyone is on an even playing field. Let me know and Ill get them posted up.
 

EddieE

Sergeant
Mar 20, 2017
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Nice shooting Eddie. Only two questions:

What rifle?
I count 9 targets, this thread we take 6 consecutively fired 5 round targets to get an average size. So unfortunately we can not pick the 6 best targets, just the 6 best that were shot consecutively. That way everyone is on an even playing field. Let me know and Ill get them posted up.
Rifle: CZ 455 varmint, stock with the exception of Xray chassis and trigger spring. Vortex Viper PST Gen2.

Ammo: SK std. +

Let's use the first 6 I measured.

I couldn't replicate that target if my life depended on it...Everything must have come together just right.

Thanks
 

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Lrps260

New Hide Member
Aug 30, 2018
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Ruger presicion rifle,with er shaw barrel finally got her dialed in. Shoots as good as my kidd 10/22 i heated up the factory barrel in the shape of a S sending back to ruger,,,,,S,,,,,,, stands fir sucks....
Er shaw done a fine job with there match grade barrel... Shot the same with sk yellow box as it did with sk red box and Lapua center x... Beded the areas i could with alluminum tape... ....
 

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