6mm Dasher

May 8, 2011
374
1
18
Wichita, KS
#2
23.5" 1:8 Bartlein

105 Hybrid
32.7 gr Varget
Lapua FF'd Brass
CCI BR-4

2929 FPS

I'm currently fireforming brass for another 23.5" 1:8 Bartelin barrel; I'm going to try 8208XBR and CCI 450 and see how it works.
 
Likes: Citius7
Feb 13, 2017
192
0
16
#3
23.5" 1:8 Bartlein

105 Hybrid
32.7 gr Varget
Lapua FF'd Brass
CCI BR-4

2929 FPS

I'm currently fireforming brass for another 23.5" 1:8 Bartelin barrel; I'm going to try 8208XBR and CCI 450 and see how it works.
Shot with a modest 31.5 grains of IMR 8208 XBR with 80 grain flat base bergers at 240 yards. Got 3105 fps and shot half MOA. At 100 yards we stacked bullets on top of one another. We just used this load to fire form our lapua brass. Can't wait to shoot the 105s to see what happens. I wonder if you give up barrel life to the IMR XBR vs Varget? Any thoughts or experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
May 8, 2011
374
1
18
Wichita, KS
#4
Shot with a modest 31.5 grains of IMR 8208 XBR with 80 grain flat base bergers at 240 yards. Got 3105 fps and shot half MOA. At 100 yards we stacked bullets on top of one another. We just used this load to fire form our lapua brass. Can't wait to shoot the 105s to see what happens. I wonder if you give up barrel life to the IMR XBR vs Varget? Any thoughts or experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only experience I have is second-hand from a guy I consider to be a good shooter and knowledgeable reloader...I don't remember his charge weight, but he's pushing 105's around 2980fps from a 24" barrel and has over 3k rounds down that barrel, and it still shoots less than 1/2 moa at 100 yards and easily holds sub moa at distance. I have no reason to believe he's lying about it.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#5
Shot with a modest 31.5 grains of IMR 8208 XBR with 80 grain flat base bergers at 240 yards. Got 3105 fps and shot half MOA. At 100 yards we stacked bullets on top of one another. We just used this load to fire form our lapua brass. Can't wait to shoot the 105s to see what happens. I wonder if you give up barrel life to the IMR XBR vs Varget? Any thoughts or experience?
If you look at some of the metrics of powder burn and heat energy, XBR 8208 is a cooler burning powder than Varget. That should help prolong barrel life. My plan is to use a lighter charge of XBR 8208 for my 6 Dasher practice loads to stretch barrel life then run full power Varget loads for match ammo. We'll see how it goes
 

Bronco

Sergeant
Mar 30, 2006
489
0
16
Kansas
#6
Started out using 8208 XBR in 6 Dasher and haven't seen a reason to change. When first developing a load I ran everything over a chrono and around 31 gr. the SD's were single digits and continued up to max which was 33.5 for that rifle (Quick load shows max at 32.0 using the Amax). Settled on 33.0 gr. which drove a 105 Berger VLD @ 2970 out of a 24" 1 in 7.8 twist barrel. Second Dasher likes 8208 as well but had to reduce load by 1.0 gr. and changed to 105 Amax as it didn't care for either VLD or Hy-bred Berger. The first rifle has over 3000 rounds on it and is still my go to rifle. Will be a sad day when it gives up.
 

earthquake

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 30, 2009
1,522
47
48
Delaware, OH
#7
26" Hawk Hill 8 twist
Lapua 6BR FF brass
CCI 450
105 hybrids
32.9 gr. Varget

Only just did an OCW test and this combo won. Gotta load more and see speed, and performance at distance.
 

Renomd

Full Member
Feb 13, 2017
1,579
78
48
#8
Specs:
26 inch bartlein barrel
1.555 chamber
272 no-turn neck
104 freebore
Defiance Deviant action
Primers CCI450
False shoulder formed brass

105 hybrid seated 0.015 off the lands

32.6 gr of Varget = 2978 fps (on average) SD 4.2
33.0 gr of Varget = 3006 fps (on average) SD 5.4

On a colder day 33 gr varget 2984 fps SD 1.4 ES 4
 

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earthquake

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 30, 2009
1,522
47
48
Delaware, OH
#11
*Update with magneto speed etc.

Got out to test my above mentioned loads at distance, but only got to 615-yds. The 32.9gr of Varget got the 105 Berger's to 2,967 fps, sd of 6-fps. Stacking them in the head area of a 100% IPSC plate. Stupid easy and fun!

 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#12
Got my Dasher finally! I cranked out 300 Lapua cases with the false shoulder on my Dillon 550, went super fast. Sinclair expander with 257 mandrel in station one, then Whidden 6 Dasher die with .267 bushing backed out to neck the brass down in station 2. Only took about 15 minutes to prep all the cases once the dies were set.

Fireforming load looks like it will be 29g of XBR8208. Initial test loads came back at 2700fps or so from my 26" barrel but it seems to form the case nicely and will be easy on the brass for the first firing. XBR8208 meters nicely in the Dillon so I'm loading those as progressive thrown charges, also goes very quickly. Got the first 100 cases loaded and will do a range day later this week for some barricade practice and see how they shoot at distance. Grouping from fireform charges was at 1/2 MOA at 100 yards in initial testing.
 

KevinU

Sergeant
Jun 14, 2009
416
8
18
56
Colorado
#15
Specs:
26 inch bartlein barrel
1.555 chamber
272 no-turn neck
104 freebore
Defiance Deviant action
Primers CCI450
False shoulder formed brass

32.6 gr of Varget = 2978 fps (on average) SD 4.2
33.0 gr of Varget = 3006 fps (on average) SD 5.4

On a colder day 33 gr varget 2984 fps SD 1.4 ES 4
I too get very low ES's.....



32.6 Varget, Hybrids jumped .010, CCI 450. 26"

5 shots at 500yds with above load.



Started messing around with the new Dtacs. Shooting very well 32.7 Varget in a different 26" barrel at 2910. Dtac is in the case quite a ways with a .104 freebore. Having another barrel chambered soon, chamber will be throated longer for the Dtacs. 28", 7.5 twist.
 

stevenc23

Full Member
Oct 21, 2013
586
19
18
#16
Specs:
26 inch bartlein barrel
1.555 chamber
272 no-turn neck
104 freebore
Defiance Deviant action
Primers CCI450
False shoulder formed brass

32.6 gr of Varget = 2978 fps (on average) SD 4.2
33.0 gr of Varget = 3006 fps (on average) SD 5.4

On a colder day 33 gr varget 2984 fps SD 1.4 ES 4
What bullet?
 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#17
26" 31.6 H4895 105 Hyb. = 3017
24" sister barrel blank = 2971

32.8-32.9 for vargret pushing 105s

From JoshK on the ^mm Dasher FB page ....
 
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Likes: atefft22

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#18
Fireforming load looks like it will be 29g of XBR8208. Initial test loads came back at 2700fps or so from my 26" barrel but it seems to form the case nicely and will be easy on the brass for the first firing. XBR8208 meters nicely in the Dillon so I'm loading those as progressive thrown charges, also goes very quickly. Got the first 100 cases loaded and will do a range day later this week for some barricade practice and see how they shoot at distance. Grouping from fireform charges was at 1/2 MOA at 100 yards in initial testing.
225 cases fired, only 75 more to go. Dillon thrown loads at 29g (+/- 0.1g) of XBR8208 behind a 105 amax held an SD of 10 across a 10 shot string and grouped well at distance out to 1k yards. False shoulder with jammed bullet, blow lengths were right around 1.541. Barrel sped up from 2707fps average to 2765 average with forming loads after 200 rounds.Lost 4 cases out of 225 to split shoulders, seems about typical for false shoulder brass approach.

Need to start load development now. Going to work up 2 loads, 105 Hybrids over Varget shooting to get near 3000 fps for match ammo, then will work up a practice load of 105 Hornady BTHP over XBR8208 somewhere around 2800 fps as something inexpensive and easy on the barrel that I can crank out on the Dillon 550.
 

Renomd

Full Member
Feb 13, 2017
1,579
78
48
#20
I too get very low ES's.....



32.6 Varget, Hybrids jumped .010, CCI 450. 26"

5 shots at 500yds with above load.



Started messing around with the new Dtacs. Shooting very well 32.7 Varget in a different 26" barrel at 2910. Dtac is in the case quite a ways with a .104 freebore. Having another barrel chambered soon, chamber will be throated longer for the Dtacs. 28", 7.5 twist.
You shooting out of a 1:8 twist right now?
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#23
Did some load development today on my 6 Dasher, working on finding my lower velocity "practice" load with XBR8208 and Hornady 105 BHTP.

Loaded up a ladder with 11 rounds, 28.0 - 30.0gr in 0.2 increments. Strapped on the magnetospeed and shot the entire ladder into one group at 100 yards. Low velocity was 2712 fps and high was 2844. What was awesome was that despite the 130fps spread, the 10 shot group was under 0.7 MOA with one flyer at 29.8gr. Even better was the giant flat spot node from 29.0 - 29.4 that only covered 11fps.

I'm going to load at 29.2gr on the Dillon progressive press and call it a day.

Load development in 11 rounds.... dang I love the Dasher!
 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#24
I took my PVA (1:8) 6 Dasher out ... OCW with Varget and H4895 with 105s. Only had up to 33gr Varget (2940) and 31.6 gr of H4895 (2960). Neither showed pressure signs. So need to load up a few more maybe go up to 33.4 on Varget and 32 on H4895. Weather was ~ 52 here in rainy seattle
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#25
Got a chance to test the load out today at the range. Loaded a bunch of rounds on the Dillon 550 as a true progressive with thrown powder charges. Final load of 29.2 XBR grouped under 1/4 MOA for a 5 shot group and held an SD of 8. I'm blown away by how good the Dasher is.

 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#28
Lapua Brass, No Turn - 110gr SMK, 31.6gr of H4895 - 2930 fps ....
Lapua Brass, No Turn - 105 JLK or Berger Hybrids, 31.8gr of H4895 - 2960 fps
 

earthquake

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 30, 2009
1,522
47
48
Delaware, OH
#29
32.9 gr. of Varget, moving 105's at 2,987 fps, DA is ~2,500'. All SD's are either 3 or 4 fps after 10 shots!

I just ordered some 110 smk's to try just for fun. Anybody have much distance feedback on these yet?
 

phxfa

Gunny Sergeant
Mar 9, 2010
1,262
22
38
Arizona
#30
Hitting the prairie dog towns in 2 weeks.
70gr Blitzkings @3600fps and 105 Amax's @2975. 70 grainers are staying together in a 7.5T barrel,,,0ver 300k RPM
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#31
Quick update and thread bump. Took my 105 Hornady BTHP practice dasher load out to distance this weekend, shooting an IPSC at 1225 yards. Muzzle velocity of 2800 fps meant that these were well subsonic by the time they got out there, but we were still hitting 70% impacts across three shooters (one of whom was not experienced). The 105 BHTP seems to transition pretty well and the fact that the powder charges were thrown on a Dillon press didn't seem to create any major problems with vertical.
 
Likes: Bull Arms
Nov 5, 2007
714
1
18
Phoenix
#32
110 SMK 5 thou off
Norma Brass (sucks BTW)
CCI 450
31.0 Varget
2870 FPS

I'm in AZ and it's hot as balls here now so you can probably go up another 1-1.5gr and be safe.
 
Feb 20, 2017
64
1
6
36
Upstate, NY
#33
24" Brux 4-Groove 7.5t, .271 no-turn Neck

110 SMK 3 thou off light touch
Lapua Brass, false shoulder and shoot
CCI 450
30.5gr H4895
2825 FPS

This happens to be in a timed node that is giving me 5 shot groups ~.125 @100yd, you can go faster with less accuracy.
 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#34
Quick update and thread bump. Took my 105 Hornady BTHP practice dasher load out to distance this weekend, shooting an IPSC at 1225 yards. Muzzle velocity of 2800 fps meant that these were well subsonic by the time they got out there, but we were still hitting 70% impacts across three shooters (one of whom was not experienced). The 105 BHTP seems to transition pretty well and the fact that the powder charges were thrown on a Dillon press didn't seem to create any major problems with vertical.
Sweet Sheldon - I am heading out to Dougs place with the Dasher in 2 weeks. With 110 SMK going 2970 FPS ... will let you know how it goes.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#35
Nice! Should be a fun time. Hope the winds are kind to you.

Dasher was good to me last weekend, took second at the UNSC match. One stage was 5 shots from a rooftop barricade, choose either the 10" 8" or 4" target at 475 yards, more points for the smaller targets. I went for the little one and cleaned the stage, the spotter said it was printing a 1" group right in the center of the 4" gong. :)
 
Likes: Bull Arms

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#36
Nice! Should be a fun time. Hope the winds are kind to you.

Dasher was good to me last weekend, took second at the UNSC match. One stage was 5 shots from a rooftop barricade, choose either the 10" 8" or 4" target at 475 yards, more points for the smaller targets. I went for the little one and cleaned the stage, the spotter said it was printing a 1" group right in the center of the 4" gong. :)
sweet man - i did get to punch paper with those 110SMK, shot all day within 2" at 600. I got to take my 6.5SAUM out today to OCW, just one big hole ...
 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#39
You're getting 2970 out of the 110s !?! That's crazy good speed for a Dasher and more than I'm running with the 105s. Certainly a tough combo to beat.
So a couple of things as until today really didnt get a chance to play with more than 300 rounds at distance > 200 since PVA built if for me.

2970 was calc MV based on shooting a 600 yard target and having to adjust my elevation down based on mageto speed saying 2940 - but i took the dasher out to 1200 today and realized something was amiss with my AB in the kestrel. the calc MV must have a bug for that bullet or DA combination as my dope was all off with 2970 so took another magento reading and used it and was spot on out to 1200 - even though the other day it was nailing dead center. So today the calc was dead on 2940.

Now when I OCW this gun i went 30.6 up to 31.8 and no pressure signs until I got up to 31.8. So backed it off to the prior node. Weather is mild where i live, and I live at see level -- well today I had left 100 rounds in my car inadvertently (my other 100 was in my shooting bag) and after 5 hours in my car, noticed the interior of my car was 110+ and even though everything was smooth earlier in the day , shot 1 shell and the bolt was stiff and seen some cratering ... not bolt marks however. So am going to back it down to the prior node as this range is 1900 feet and today it was pretty hot and its just sucky work has kept me from making the 3+ hr trip earlier - and i love slapping metal. So am going to back it down to ~ 31.2-31.3 (which was my prior node) to get ~ 2900.

One thing I am seeing with the Dasher (and maybe folks with more experience) is given its case capacity the pressure variance is over a narrower margin then the bigger cases. I was shooting a 6.5x47, a 6.5 SAUM ... I do all the same OCW process, back everything off ~ .2 grain .. the bolt or pressure signs didnt change at all with them today. So , touch wood, likely was pushing a bit hard ...

Now when it was cooler - the Dasher was pounding everything out to 1200 ...used Kestrel AB with custom curve and elevation was exactly. At 500- 600 the hits on metal were so tight you couldnt distinguish the individual hits - just grey in the spotting scope.


 

phxfa

Gunny Sergeant
Mar 9, 2010
1,262
22
38
Arizona
#43
32.8 of Varget got me 2950 with 110's, as soon as the weather got hot here in AZ, that load shit the bed. Pressure and vertical, H4895 is my next powder
 

4RingShooter

Sergeant of the Hide
Aug 20, 2013
68
12
8
Norcal
#45
My current 110 load is 32.2 Varget with a 0.050" jump. Velocity sub 90F is ~2885-2890fps, 90F+ 2890-2900 fps. PVA Chambered 26" 7.5T. Looking at quickload this should be sub 60kpsi and measured extractor grove expansion is well within spec.

I was able to confirm a G7 BC of .310 at 1185, 1470, 1615 and 2195 last Saturday. Vertical opened up a little at 2195 even with low velocity spreads(using a labradar on every shot) but still managed a couple of impacts. Very impressive results through the velocity range though.
 
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craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,764
56
48
PNW
#48
2940 sounds a bit more reasonable from the 110's up at peak pressures with lower 2900's as the safe node.

A good day at the range!
Been playing more, and that H4895 has a narrow channel between no pressure signs and lots - and i seen it when i went from a day temp of 60 to a hot day of 105. But those 110s are awesome ... just be careful at the top pressure end with that powder.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,452
313
83
Pacific Northwest
#50
If you look at some of the metrics of powder burn and heat energy, XBR 8208 is a cooler burning powder than Varget. That should help prolong barrel life. My plan is to use a lighter charge of XBR 8208 for my 6 Dasher practice loads to stretch barrel life then run full power Varget loads for match ammo. We'll see how it goes
Update for reference on this thread.... 1800 rounds in on my Dasher barrel and I am seeing velocity dropoff of about 30-35fps, still decent accuracy but not as good as when new. Looks like my plan to try lighter weight charges to stretch out barrel life didn't amount to much. About 1300 of the rounds were reduced loads or fireforming, the other 500 were match loads at full velocity. That being said I wasn't exactly kind to the barrel. Typical range trip was 50-75 rounds in about an hour. Never got the barrel smoking hot, but did have a recent match where we had to burn through 20+ rounds in 90 seconds trying to hit a plate behind a spinner. I swear that gunsmiths must have made up that stage just to get more barrel orders.

Got another PVA Dasher barrel on the way. Plus a trainer 223 trainer barrel lol.
 
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