6 Creedmoor Freebore - .120" with various bullets

reubenski

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I'm having a 6 Creed chambered. My smith seated a 115 DTAC and sent it off to have a reamer made. They responded back quickly that they already had a reamer for this. It is a .120" I see a lot of misinformation on the internet about 6 Creed freebores and thought I'd post pics of all of the bullets I've measured. My smith chambered a barrel stub with the reamer and I used a split neck case to push the bullet into the case seating the bullet against the lands into the neck. When I remove the case you can see where the bullet will sit in the neck at the lands in a .120 FB. I marked the the body/ boattail junction with a thin black permanent marker. You can see it in contrast to the neck shoulder junction which I also marked. Thought it would be helpful for folks.



115 DTAC


105 HYBRID


108 ELD M


103 ELDX


107 SMK


110 SMK


95 TMK


87 VMAX


75 VMAX


95 Nosler BT


105 BTHP


108 Berger BT
 
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Geno C.

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Looks like a winner to me. Since a dtac was sent in, I assume that's what you want to be shooting. There is a big difference if you wanting to shoot light bullets
 

jpndave

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[B]reubenski[/B] Thanks for posting this up, extremely helpful information. I am looking for a reamer to chamber a custom lever rifle in 6 Creedmoor and don't want the excessive throat of SAAMI spec reamer.

There is a 0.275 neck 0.109 PT&G reamer readily available but I'm not certain I want to go that tight on both of those dimensions. I am planning Atlas brass (Loaded Diameter .271" Dia. Tolerance +/- .0005) and 108 ELD-M, hopefully. Mags are modified to accept ~2.91 max COL. What company had/has the 0.120 throat reamer you used in stock? Do you know what the neck diameter is?
 
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reubenski

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[B]reubenski[/B] Thanks for posting this up, extremely helpful information. I am looking for a reamer to chamber a custom lever rifle in 6 Creedmoor and don't want the excessive throat of SAAMI spec reamer.

There is a 0.275 neck 0.109 PT&G reamer readily available but I'm not certain I want to go that tight on both of those dimensions. I am planning Atlas brass (Loaded Diameter .271" Dia. Tolerance +/- .0005) and 108 ELD-M, hopefully. Mags are modified to accept ~2.91 max COL. What company had/has the 0.120 throat reamer you used in stock? Do you know what the neck diameter is?
After having a .120 and a .130 I think a .140 or so would be about perfect for 115 DTACs. The .109 would definitely stifle that case. BUT... you could purchase a hand-throater to go with it and throat it out as you like. As far as the neck diameter a .275 is pretty standard for these big 6's. My Dashers and BRs are at .268" on a loaded neck. My SLR and Creed are .270 loaded. I think a .275 would be good.
 

FishDr

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Excellent Post. I wish I had seen this before I had a 6 CM chambered up. WIll probably wind up running the DTAC, but I WANTED to run the 105 RDF. But maybe next year.... they still burn quickly! Great info. Thanks Reubenski
 
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jpndave

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Thanks for the clarification reubenski

I will not be shooting DTACs (hunting application). It looks like all of the other bullets would benefit from the shorter throat to place the boat tail/shoulder junction in a better place. My preference is the 108 ELD-M if the barrels likes it.

By stifling the case I suspect you mean that the DTAC is down into the powder column and compromising powder capacity especially with slower powders?
 

reubenski

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Yes. I have a hunting rifle in .120 FB. 22" Proof Carbon. I maxed out on pressure using Peterson brass and 105 class bullets at 2850 using 4831SC. I shoot 95gr TGKs at 3050 using 40.5gr H4350. 95gr Berger Classic Hunters are at 3000fps with 40.3gr. IIRC I got 2950 with Berger 108BTs using 4350. Definitely a little on the anemic side. That Peterson brass is super thick and seems to pressure fast. I also can't rule out that barrel. It is picky as hell and slow.

But yes, I would agree for light hunting bullets the shorter FB would be best. If you have any designs of shooting Vmax's you must have a very short FB or jump them two miles. Ironically I have found the 95 TGKs to be so explosive I don't think I'd need a Vmax for varmints
 
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jpndave

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I have heard that about the Peterson brass. The Alpha is supposed to be more case capacity and hopefully will allow better fill. I think Lapua is similar also. I'm really torn on this throat issue, seems to be a very large range in some of these new bullets.

I've seen the 90gr TGK and a 95gr TMK. Haven't seen a 95 TGK. So much for controlled expansion if they are that explosive.
 
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reubenski

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I have head that about the Peterson brass. The Alpha is supposed to be more case capacity and hopefully will allow better fill. I think Lapua is similar also. I'm really torn on this throat issue, seems to be a very large range in some of these new bullets.

I've seen the 90gr TGK and a 95gr TMK. Haven't seen a 95 TGK. So much for controlled expansion if they are that explosive.
You are correct. It's a 90gr bullet.

I bought 100rds of each, Peterson Lapua and Alpha. The first two were pretty similar. Alpha measured well and had more capacity. I use Alpha in my match barrel.
 
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jpndave

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These are the stock images for game and match kings.
4100.png7295.png

 
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jpndave

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Sounds like Alpha is the way to go. I'm hoping for 3000fps+ out of a 22" Bartlein 8-1/2 to 7-1/2 twist using the 108 ELD-M and RL26 in Alpha SRP brass.
 

jpndave

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That damage is insane for that bullet. What was that critter? How far/fast was the impact?

That looks awesome for varmints, not so much for bigger stuff depending on how far it penatrates.
 

reubenski

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That damage is insane for that bullet. What was that critter? How far/fast was the impact?

That looks awesome for varmints, not so much for bigger stuff depending on how far it penatrates.
It was a whitetail at about 20yds. Big doe. I hit her once walking. She ducked her head and picked up her pace so I hit her again and it knocked her off her feet and she died instantly. I think what you're seeing is the second bullet; it hit a rib. The other bullet just entered, thru, and exited. Kind of a night and day difference. Not overly impressed with the bullet but I think it really speaks to how variable bullet performance can be.
 

Bache Kermooni

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First, thanks so much for the great info. Looking to build a custom 6mm Creed.

I had read that Lapua and Peterson both have small primer pockets and small flash hole which caused approx 100 fps lower MV. Can not recall where I read that.

Also, I am not impressed with the 90 TGK AKA GameChanger on game performance. I use it in my semi-custom 6mm AR / Grendel bolt gun. VERY accurate (0.25 MOA 3-shot group). But when I shot an Antelope earlier this month at 235 yards (MV 2890 - at target over 2450), It went right thru. A second shot got him to lay down. Got to 150 yards and had to put the third in his neck to end his suffering. ELD-X is my next bullet test.
 

Geno C.

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First, thanks so much for the great info. Looking to build a custom 6mm Creed.

I had read that Lapua and Peterson both have small primer pockets and small flash hole which caused approx 100 fps lower MV. Can not recall where I read that.

Also, I am not impressed with the 90 TGK AKA GameChanger on game performance. I use it in my semi-custom 6mm AR / Grendel bolt gun. VERY accurate (0.25 MOA 3-shot group). But when I shot an Antelope earlier this month at 235 yards (MV 2890 - at target over 2450), It went right thru. A second shot got him to lay down. Got to 150 yards and had to put the third in his neck to end his suffering. ELD-X is my next bullet test.
Berger 105 hunting vld is what you should give a try.
 

Geno C.

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I’ve killed a lot of stuff with that bullet. Mostly from a 6-47 and 234ai but it will do the job on most reasonable sized game
 

Bache Kermooni

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I’ve killed a lot of stuff with that bullet. Mostly from a 6-47 and 234ai but it will do the job on most reasonable sized game
Thanks. It seems in 6mm Creed with Superformance powder one can get around 3100 FPS - quite a performance. Looking to make a long range med game rifle.
 

Supersubes

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Reubinski, was that JGS’s reamer? Just curious. As your pics show, the bullet matters. For the dtac though, it seems short to me. Was 2.8 OAL a goal for you? I can’t see why you’d go so short if it wasn’t.

My dtac load touches at 2.174(2.832 OAL). My reamer has .100 fb, and I throat my barrels for the application. In my case, I wanted the bearing surface of the 115 just out of the neck/shoulder. I take seating depth measurements while the barrel is in the lathe, and run the throat out accordingly. I imagine Geno does the same thing.

Here’s my load at .020 jump.
8240C127-6CD6-438B-B355-7FEF8E7CDB95.jpeg

Bearing surface just a hair above the neck/shoulder.
2E885F43-3362-4D01-A6F2-287B2E17A69E.jpeg

Same round in a magpul AICS
B8055DC0-F01E-42A4-86A3-ED2BC2399985.jpeg

AI AICS
0834F712-A68E-4694-87AA-A106E876515D.jpeg

AI AW (love these mags!)
6EEE7825-9723-4A54-B66A-0907892ABCCB.jpeg

To get to this OAL, I ran the throat out exactly .080. Combined with the reamers freebore, my chamber has .180 freebore. I’ve been saying for a long time, but the saami 6 creed reamer is a good one, and it’s .183 fb is spot on for the 115.
 
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reubenski

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Reubinski, was that JGS’s reamer? Just curious. As your pics show, the bullet matters. For the dtac though, it seems short to me. Was 2.8 OAL a goal for you? I can’t see why you’d go so short if it wasn’t.

My dtac load touches at 2.174(2.832 OAL). My reamer has .100 fb, and I throat my barrels for the application. In my case, I wanted the bearing surface of the 115 just out of the neck/shoulder. I take seating depth measurements while the barrel is in the lathe, and run the throat out accordingly. I imagine Geno does the same thing.

Here’s my load at .020 jump.
View attachment 7170602

Bearing surface just a hair above the neck/shoulder.
View attachment 7170603

Same round in a magpul AICS
View attachment 7170604

AI AICS
View attachment 7170605

AI AW (love these mags!)
View attachment 7170606

To get to this OAL, I ran the throat out exactly .080. Combined with the reamers freebore, my chamber has .180 freebore. I’ve been saying for a long time, but the saami 6 creed reamer is a good one, and it’s .183 fb is spot on for the 115.
Just saw this today somehow. My goal with the chamber on that rifle was to be able to use a wide application of bullets. It is a hunting rifle and I'm glad I went that short or I wouldn't have the neck to shoot many of those bullets. As far as a 2.8" COAL my reasoning there was based on the last 4 barrels I shot and watching a buddy run out of mag trying to regain accuracy with Hybrids after 600rds on a SAAMI spec chamber. Those last 5 barrels were in 6.5x47, 6Dasher(2), and a 6 SLR. They all eroded .060" or more in the first 1000 rds and at least .1" by the time the cracked throat gave out. So my goal was to give .1" of chasing the lands in an AICS with a binder, with a DTAC. And if I wanted to shoot a Hybrid for any real duration as well.

At this point I have 3 6Creed barrels and I won't do another. The 6SLR just does a sandbagged 115 better. They are in .120FB in the hunting rifle, .130FB in a Keystone Accy Prefit, and .140FB in an AI prefit. Looking at our measurements something doesn't line up with those COAL. Your .060" longer FB shouldn't be .030 longer in COAL. I can reference my starting COAL when I get home tonight for the Keystone but I just loaded some ladder for the AI and I distinctly remember a 2.790" COAL. Which does jive.

I have since removed the binder plates from my AI mags and have 2.980" to play with and was considering throating the Keystone prefit and my 6SLR out to 2.850 for a loaded 2.830 to jump 20 with a uni-throater. I only shoot DTACs in these guns so that strategy would work. The DTAC is one of the bluntest bullets for this discussion and a Hybrid would present a very different situation.

I still think the SAAMI .183 is too long as a gen. purp. freebore. Yes, it could work for the DTAC if you have some long mags, don't run the cartridge hard, and don't get a barrel that just erodes fast as some do every once in a while. Or maybe you're one of those guys that like to set'it and forget'it. Don't chase lands. But with the rest of the bullets out there you'd be pretty limited.
 

Supersubes

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nor sure about the lack of agreement in numbers. It appears the nose of your 115 is exactly .7”. Mine are .656”
880B51BF-2BE6-47D3-AD75-5785857A1DAC.jpeg
630DF1D3-EFF8-4376-8004-085EE449C519.jpeg


This barrel is an experiment in 6 creed barrel life. I usually shoot 6.5’s but I wanted to see for myself how it would wear, as I find most of the reports seem outlandishly short. My load is rather pedestrian at 2900 FPS, and is still speeding up at 398 rounds. I just re-measured it and it hasn’t moved a single thousandth. The throat looks great. Virtually no cracking in the throat except for the sharp corned at the end of the chamber.