6.5 Grendel more or less dead?

Yondering

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 16, 2017
410
109
49
Skagit Valley, WA
Just getting into 6.5G via a Larue upper and holding off on buying any Wolf for the moment.

Success with it seems to be hit or miss, so do you mind posting info on your rifle/barrel?

Thanks
I'm shooting a 12.5" barrel I turned from a stainless Green Mountain blank and chambered with a Grendel reamer supplied by 4D Reamers. It's one of those barrels that's not truly exceptional with any one load (i.e. not a 1/4 moa shooter) but shoots everything pretty well.

This rifle is easier to hit with at 600 yards than my 16" 223 Wylde, including with that cheap Wolf ammo.

 

towerofpower93

Private
Belligerents
Jul 11, 2010
210
50
34
36
I'm shooting a 12.5" barrel I turned from a stainless Green Mountain blank and chambered with a Grendel reamer supplied by 4D Reamers. It's one of those barrels that's not truly exceptional with any one load (i.e. not a 1/4 moa shooter) but shoots everything pretty well.

This rifle is easier to hit with at 600 yards than my 16" 223 Wylde, including with that cheap Wolf ammo.

Thank you. Seems some rifling types do better with the undersized Wolf bullets and others not so much.

Will probably pick up a case for paper hoser stages in 2G/3G matches so as to not lose brass.
 

bill alexander

Private
Belligerents
Jul 20, 2014
7
10
6
Barhaul cartridge who produces the steel case ammunition for Wolf has recently changed the gauge rings for the projectile production to increase the projectile diameter. Previously they had manufactured it per Russian military so excessive production die wear and variations in a fleet of barrels would not create problems other than a distribution of accuracy.

The heavy jackets used in military ammunition tend to find best accuracy in a tradition rifling form that engraves aggressively. Target barrels with canted transition between land and groove do less well and fouling becomes a problem.

This said, I am intrigued by the findings seen when shooting ELR with solid machined projectiles. Gas blow by seems more of a potential problem and a rifling form that seals the projectile well is counter to that which works with jacketed projectiles.
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Belligerents
Aug 10, 2001
6,735
2,026
219
73
Arizona, good place for me...
I'm looking at the Bernaul 100gr steel case load for practice/plink ammo, and maybe more demanding, purposes.

Now, my concern is about when the improved projectiles will come to market as steel case ammo. The smaller diameter of the existing stuff had/has been/is a concern for me. I'll be using a 20" 1:8" heavy AR Stoner (5R? Bear Creek?) barrel.

Greg
 

PXranger

Private
Belligerents
Jul 17, 2017
8
0
2
The 6.8 runs 100fps faster than the Grendel with factory ammo using the same weight bullets and barrel lengths, 200fps faster comparing top handloads to top handloads. 85gr TSX will break 3100 out of a 16" barrel, we can push 110s to 2750 out of a 16".

The TAC6 is a 6.8 based 6mm. 95gr SMKs out of an 18" barrel hit 2800fps.
And those short, Fat bullets have terrible BC's and drop like rocks. we've always known that the 6.8 was great up close, but dead is dead, and the Grendel will kill up close and far out.
 

Constructor

Private
Belligerents
There is only a few inches difference of drop and maybe 40lbs energy difference at 400yds using similar weight hunting bullets. I know there a lot of guys on the Grendel forum saying you can kill deer at 650 yds with a Grendel but that isn't ethical hunters saying that.
Many of the hunting bullets being used in the Grendel were made for the 260 at faster velocity, many don't expand at the vel the Grendel can push them. I've been shooting a Grendel since 2005. The Hornady 123 SST is probably the best bullet for the Grendel, Maybe a 100 Nolser.
 

stilesg57

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 4, 2007
191
82
34
NRA Headquarters
There is only a few inches difference of drop and maybe 40lbs energy difference at 400yds using similar weight hunting bullets. I know there a lot of guys on the Grendel forum saying you can kill deer at 650 yds with a Grendel but that isn't ethical hunters saying that.
Many of the hunting bullets being used in the Grendel were made for the 260 at faster velocity, many don't expand at the vel the Grendel can push them. I've been shooting a Grendel since 2005. The Hornady 123 SST is probably the best bullet for the Grendel, Maybe a 100 Nolser.
It’s still flatter and has more energy at 400yds, and has more sectional density than the 6.8 at any distance and speed. That makes it a better hunting round to me. You’re right about 6.5mm bullet designs being skewed towards higher velocities though, that is an issue.

Been eyeing the cartridge since I worked at the NRA in the early aughts but only actually got on the Grendel train myself in the last few years. Disposable income is easier to come by in your mid-30s than your early-20s, ha.

I don’t think there are very many ethical hunting shots taken with any caliber past 600 yds, but I hear what you’re saying about some of the Grendel fanboys. I love the 6.5G but you sure as hell wouldn’t see me try to take an elk with it...even though some do.
 

CBDR

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 4, 2017
368
129
49
Jacksonville FL.
Excellent for my application, hogs from 100 -300 lbs Plenty of stopping power. It all boils down to shot placement. If the shot is not 100% don't take it. 6.5 G is extremely effective. If you need more energy, refine your skill set. Proficiently breeds confidence.
 

Constructor

Private
Belligerents
It’s still flatter and has more energy at 400yds, and has more sectional density than the 6.8 at any distance and speed. That makes it a better hunting round to me. You’re right about 6.5mm bullet designs being skewed towards higher velocities though, that is an issue.

Been eyeing the cartridge since I worked at the NRA in the early aughts but only actually got on the Grendel train myself in the last few years. Disposable income is easier to come by in your mid-30s than your early-20s, ha.

I don’t think there are very many ethical hunting shots taken with any caliber past 600 yds, but I hear what you’re saying about some of the Grendel fanboys. I love the 6.5G but you sure as hell wouldn’t see me try to take an elk with it...even though some do.
What is the sectional density of a 6.5mm bullet 1 millisecond after it impacts? You can't answer that and neither can anyone else. The advertised SD of a bullet has absolutely nothing to do with penetration unless the bullet is a solid and NEVER deforms.
 

stilesg57

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 4, 2007
191
82
34
NRA Headquarters
What is the sectional density of a 6.5mm bullet 1 millisecond after it impacts? You can't answer that and neither can anyone else. The advertised SD of a bullet has absolutely nothing to do with penetration unless the bullet is a solid and NEVER deforms.
1) IME SD is often more indicative of performance on game than ft-lbs of energy, especially with a well placed shot (I think of energy past a certain threshold as largely providing margin of error).

2) Ok, you’re right, SD doesn’t matter at all. So the 6.5G only shoots flatter, deflects wind better, and carries more energy at distance than the 6.8.
 

Yondering

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 16, 2017
410
109
49
Skagit Valley, WA
You’re right about 6.5mm bullet designs being skewed towards higher velocities though, that is an issue.
Well, yes and no. This is just as true for the 6.8 (270) caliber, with a lot of bullets being designed for the higher velocity 270 Win. It is a common thing for the 6.8 guys to point out about the Grendel, while ignoring the same fact about the 6.8 SPC. Both calibers have bullets designed for the lower velocity AR cartridges though, with plenty of good hunting bullets for each.

As for the fanboys, both of these cartridges have their following of tunnel vision fanboys, and it's the same old Ford vs Chevy arguments repeated over and over again.
 

hlee

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 14, 2012
2,010
1,357
219
41
TX
Shoot them in the head, no stupid arguments.

No tracking dragging or bs!
Unless you shoot the lower jaw off and the deer runs off, only to be shot a few weeks later, completely emancipated because it couldn’t eat... When my dad joined a hunting lease in 2005, the first deer he killed was a very “nice for the area” 10 pt whitetail. The deer had 4 bullet wounds in various stages of healing, including a mostly removed lower jaw.

I like head shots too, as you generally get either a “bang-flop” or the deer runs off unscathed. But, they are not without their own risks. In addition to the rules of safe firearms handling, every hunter should know the limitations of his/her gear, and- more importantly- their own limitations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Constructor

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
So you suggesting I don't know my limits, proficiency problems or what?
Most deer I shoot are south of 100 yards, not a problem with any equipment I own.
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Once you get past the desperation to fill all the tags, and pass the trophies on to the younger crowd you can make sport of precision shots on cull deer.

There is a certian satisfaction that comes with watching good breading stock walk off.
Another that comes with dropping culls in a place easily accessible with no damage to meat.

So yes a head shot or no shot in my situation.
Not practicle for everyone and have in the past shot deer to 300 yards.

It's kind of a personal cull swatting contest with self imposed rules of engagement.

Was really just making fun of the caliber wars, solution is get one of each.
 

hlee

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 14, 2012
2,010
1,357
219
41
TX
So you suggesting I don't know my limits, proficiency problems or what?
Most deer I shoot are south of 100 yards, not a problem with any equipment I own.
Nope, just making a general observation. The shooter that shot the jaw off the deer in question did not know the limitation of his steadiness when staring at a set of antlers through a high magnification optic (this is my assumption anyway, I do not know who shot the deer before my dad did). Like I said, I like head shots. I am somewhat color blind, so I really don't like to have to trail a deer- even one with a double lung hit. I also prefer what Peter Capstick called "halitosis range" as just about anyone can get within 300 yards of a deer.
 

Constructor

Private
Belligerents
Most consider the bullets below as the usable 6.8 bullets. Not shown are the
90gr Gold Dot
90gr Fusion
115gr Fusion
90gr Nosler bonded
Hornady 100gr GMX
105gr Cavity Back
120gr Cavity Back
110gr S&B PTS
130 Berger Classic hunter

Out of the bullets shown #s 1, 10, 15, 24, 26, 30, 35 and 36 will not expand properly. Most bullets 130gr+ are not used in the 6.8.
I don't need a boat tail on a bullet to hit a deer at 300yds.


7076819
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LeadZeke

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Color blind deer tracking, ouch!
That would be a pita.
I got good at tracking, some of my hunting buds years ago were poor marksmen, sometimes in a rush I shanked a shot as well. Eventually I grew out of it.

Many people would benefit from a little restraint and look into the benefits of strategic game dropping.

My case in part is old, copd, and not strong enough to drag game far.

Waiting for a cull to hold its head still can take a couple of days. Lol

Time spent watching broadside trophies throw themselves at you is ironic.

My quest for sub moa guns is for one to minimize chances of shanking a head shot, hate to see any wasted game.
 

DieselTuun

Private
Minuteman
Nov 28, 2018
12
3
6
Anyone have any experience with faxon match barrels? I am looking at their 12 inch for an SBR. Mostly for general plinking and some close carbine matches at a local range. And then maybe some hogs if I ever get around to it.



Plinking ammo will be wolf 100gr steel case.

Hunting will be whatever load I develop that shoots well probably ABLR's.
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
If shooting from a 12 inch barrel why not just piss 55g 223 down range?

It's actually a real question.
 

Yondering

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 16, 2017
410
109
49
Skagit Valley, WA
If shooting from a 12 inch barrel why not just piss 55g 223 down range?

It's actually a real question.
What does a 12" barrel have to do with it? Are you one of those guys who thinks short barrels aren't accurate?

6.5 Grendel from a 12" barrel still significantly outperforms 5.56 from a 16" barrel in the real world. i.e. shooting in wind, down range power and effectiveness, etc.
 

LAR Dragoon

Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Oct 3, 2004
794
7
22
SC
A short story.

Guy buys 6.5 Grendel. Shoots at a couple matches, cause it’s fun and a great little rifle. It does 1000 fine but wind is twitchy and the factory 123s aren’t as easy to spot at distance. Shoots it one time when out to ELR range and has a picture of a less than 6” three consecutive shot group st 1400 yards.

I was there. Those 123s transitioned really well.
What length barrel?
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
@Yondering
I have sbr's 10.5 inch, I bought them and set them up for close in work 100 yards and less.
Irons over eotec and 1x4.
They are accurate.

Can't justify shooting with them at 500 yards set up like that.

If the guys shooting them 500 + yards are doing that with similar set ups, damn thier good.
If you stick a 6x24 on them I dont think will be very practical for thier original application.

Imho

I have used a 6x20 on them for load development, got dirty looks at the range. Lol
 

stilesg57

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 4, 2007
191
82
34
NRA Headquarters
6.5 Grendel from a 12" barrel still significantly outperforms 5.56 from a 16" barrel in the real world. i.e. shooting in wind, down range power and effectiveness, etc.
Yeah a 12” 6.5G is still a usable hunting setup for a lot of game. A 12” 5.56 is a varmints-only affair.
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Todays grendel range report.
Round count 30-35 on new upper.20190514_130939.jpg
 

Yondering

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 16, 2017
410
109
49
Skagit Valley, WA
@Yondering
I have sbr's 10.5 inch, I bought them and set them up for close in work 100 yards and less.
Irons over eotec and 1x4.
They are accurate.

Can't justify shooting with them at 500 yards set up like that.

If the guys shooting them 500 + yards are doing that with similar set ups, damn thier good.
If you stick a 6x24 on them I dont think will be very practical for thier original application.

Imho

I have used a 6x20 on them for load development, got dirty looks at the range. Lol
If you're talking about Grendel SBRs set up that way, that's your own self-imposed optics setup limitation, not a barrel length limitation. Think outside the box a little more.

If you're talking about a 10.5" 5.56, a 12" Grendel is a whole different thing, as you might know if you've read the many different threads we've had about it here.

I could not care less about "dirty looks at the range" for having a scope on an SBR. Ignorant people don't know what they don't know, and their opinion is meaningless.
 
Last edited:

DieselTuun

Private
Minuteman
Nov 28, 2018
12
3
6
I like the middle of the road/Jack of all trades a grendel does. The ABLR has a pretty low expansion velocity and though I have no personal experience with a short grendel (yet) on paper it does pretty much everything well out to 300 yards and can punch paper much further. With the shorter barrels putting a can on it doesn't add an extreme length that makes it unruly.

The 6.8 may be in the same boat but I am more set up for the grendel. Have brass and bullets already. I would have to source all that for the 6.8.

So that's my reasoning behind the shorty grendel. Right or wrong that's what I'm sticking with for now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gnochi

newguy2k3v2

Sergeant
Belligerents
Sep 16, 2009
739
130
49
College Station, Tx
I should have built a 12" Grendel long before I did. It's a damn useful setup with a good 1-6/8x optic. I can ride around in daylight checking for hogs and still make accurate, lethal shots much much farther than with my usual 10.5 300blk night time rig. At the same time I can throw and ir laser and/or clip on on it and it's not unwieldy at night.

The one I have is a lilja and it's moa or better with Hornady black. Haven't handloaded for it yet but I can usually make fairly consistent hits on a 12" plate at 750. I have 12.5 and 18" ba barrels waiting to be built.
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Guess I should chop 12 inches off my 20 inch 6.5g and it will go on the same shelf as my 5.56 and 300 blk sbr's.

Why did I not think of that sooner?
Such a storage dilemma .


If I chop off enough I can match 300 blk velocity, save on range cards.
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Hell I got this let's chop it to 1 7/8 inches!

I'll call it snuby6.5g . Lol
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Belligerents
Aug 10, 2001
6,735
2,026
219
73
Arizona, good place for me...
Learned a few things about AR Stoner barrels. There's a fair chance they are Liberty barrels, button rifled barrels made by Satern. I had thought they were Bear Creek, but now, probably not. Not one of those things I'd be trying to certify, but internet research suggests it.

Snuby; '...it's not that they're wrong. It's they're just that wrong...'

Just sayin'...

Greg
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Thanks, corrections made.

Many distractions here and poor attention paid in school by me so many years ago.

It would be unfair to lay blame on the alcohol industry. Lol
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
As in snub nose 38 airweight s&w
They cut it to 1 7/8 .
I cut the extra b out it's redundant
Kind of like this question. Lol
 
  • Haha
Reactions: LAR Dragoon

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Got a half ass pix of my 6.5g with better scope. 4x24x50 illuminated.

51t can adapter actual 6.5g mags in transit, now to rattle can the ss barrel.
Think I will just run some cheap krylon and get over it.

20190622_204219.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: CBDR

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Belligerents
Aug 10, 2001
6,735
2,026
219
73
Arizona, good place for me...
I've been out of the race for the past few weeks due to 140-150mi round trips for Cardiopulmonary Rehab Mon, Wed, and Fri; kinda wearying. That ended after this past Monday.

Tidying/catching up on backlogged chores is underway, and will be followed by backlogged range trips, weather permitting.

Temp rising to triple digits means that those trips need to be over and done with by about 11AM, with the range being 50mi South of our home.

Champing at the bit...

Greg
 

CBDR

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 4, 2017
368
129
49
Jacksonville FL.
Triple digits, I hear ya brother. Brutal. Hydrate and re-hydrate. Combined with high humidity levels its the perfect receipt for trouble.
 

david walter

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jul 22, 2007
1,032
297
189
TriCities, WA
Just back from a motorcycle ride from eastern WA to Las Vegas and back. Everything from 38* and hail, to 101* on the day we left Vegas.

Hopefully, I'll get to shoot in the heat this weekend to validate my hunting loads in 100*+ weather.
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Belligerents
Aug 10, 2001
6,735
2,026
219
73
Arizona, good place for me...
Ended up taking Grandson to work yesterday afternoon (1PM), then shopping at Wally World for two hours.

Loading the van in 106* F heat was a challenge; unloading as well.

For somebody who's nominally retired, I sure seem to be working harder now than ever.

Today is a kick-back day, thank goodness...

Greg
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Waiting for rocksett and loctite to cure is like watching paint dry.

Paint barrel!
Install can adapter!
6.5 magazines!
4x24x50 scope and mount!
Wait till range opens on Tuesday, arg!
Look for checkmark on keyboard, arg!

20190630_140457.jpg
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
Question for the experienced 6.5g shooters.

20 inch, rifle length gas and +2 buffer worked fine unsuppresd. Brass looked good.

Do you think I will end up needing more?
 

Snuby642

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
2,290
2,185
119
More buffer or more than standard spring to run suppressed.
Will get out with suppressed Tuesday.
 

Painless300

Sergeant
Belligerents
Dec 2, 2013
581
126
49
Rome, GA
I have my first 12.5” G upper coming from Mark at Precision Firearms. I plan to mount my Rugged Razor and use it for whitetail max range 200 yds. I reload for 4 other rifles but don’t have dies yet for the Grendel, was thinking of just buying my ammo until I had enough brass to start buying up powder, and begin reloading.
What would you guys that hunt with a 12” Grendel recommed? What bullet would you recommend when I begin to reload.