I believe your mileage is unusual. That is phenomenal velocity from a 20" barrel so congrats on that! I have a 26" Bartlein. I use the exact components you use except I'm using CCI BR's. I'm getting 2850 out of 42.3gr's of 4350. Shows just slight cratering on some primers at 65 degrees. I'm also getting an SD of 3.7AI AW - people still shoot these rifles?
20" Bartlien chambered by GAP
2.900" OAL with a .010 jump. Would like it longer to get more speed.
2799 FPS with a 3.7 SD
I just don't see the need for a longer barrel when it can shoot faster then most with a 24-26" barrel.
The AW will crater on just about any load since the firing pin hole is so large and firing pin spring is so strong. I just go with signs of ejector swipes or flatten primers. I really don't think it's unusual that it's going that fast since I am loading out way longer then most and I can fill the case more then normal.I believe your mileage is unusual. That is phenomenal velocity from a 20" barrel so congrats on that! I have a 26" Bartlein. I use the exact components you use except I'm using CCI BR's. I'm getting 2850 out of 42.3gr's of 4350. Shows just slight cratering on some primers at 65 degrees. I'm also getting an SD of 3.7
Just rebarreled to a 22" suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor and also own a .284Win, so I have alot of H4831SC sitting around. What are your opinions of this powder for 6.5 Creed by now? I'm wanting to shoot bullets on the heavier side, say 140gr and up for PRS. Do you use magnum primers? And what's a good starting charge weight for an OCW? Im also not that concerned about scorching velocities.I use 4831SC in my creed. Got 2790 with a 143 ELD in a 26" barrel, not compressed. I was thinking about trying something slower.
I've pushed factory Hornady 140g ELD Match to 1,550 yards, SD and ES are really going to kill you at those distances with factory ammo though.Hope okay to ask here, I dont reload so need to ask, has anyone come up with a load that works well beyond 1200-1500 years for a Factory Tikka Tac A1. As of now Im shooting Prime and Hornaday at 500ish yards. Will factory ammo get me to 1200ish? havent tried yet as waiting for my buddies farm to dry out. Thanks in advance
I had really good results from a 20" 1:8" Bartlein pushing 143 ELD-X using Superformance. 2750fps into the high .2s. That guy just had his kid kill a big javelina @ 270+ today.I'm also considering Superformance, but have heard that it doesn't group well. What about a single cold bore shot? Is it consistent? I can get it pretty cheap is why...
The general consensus is that the SRP brass will last quite a bit longer and some have shown the SD/ES to be smaller but I don't believe that's the case for everyone. I think its just individuals reloading process and other variables. the primer pockets are always the first to go on the 6.5CM. The SRP leaves more meat in the case head for longer primer pocket life. Alpha makes SRP and LRP 6.5CM brass now. They're SRP brass has the large flash hole so there's no need for a smaller decapping pin like you have to use for the Lapua. I stayed with the LRP brass and am currently using Prime brass. I have 400 pieces of the LRP Alpha brass on the shelf and I'll use that when the Prime craps the bed. Only reason I stayed with the LRP stuff is because I have over 10,000 LRP on hand.For those of you that have shot both SRP and LRP brass, are you seeing the SRP last longer? Lower SD/ES? I'm prepping to load for my RPR with 26" PVA barrel. Berger 130 hybrids, H4350. Just can't make up my mind if I want to go to Lapua or to Alpha, Norma or some other LRP brass.
All identical loads, shot from the same rifle under the same conditions with the same brass and powder from their respective same lots. Different primer cup wall thickness is all i can come up with. Why else would some crater and some look great? Also, the results were very obvious, the 400's and 450's were markedly much worse than the FGGM's and the 41's were perfect.that's not just the primer causing that. I solely run CCI 450 in Lapua SR brass and never seen a crater like that. Same with 205M, no craters. I'm running a Bighorn TL3.
I've been pondering this all day. Just looked up some data.It would appear CCI 450 and CCI 41 are the same in dimesPrimer Test Part 2
View attachment 6888582
LOOK at those craters!!!!!!! I can't recommend running these primers with this hot of a load of H4350, in this rifle.
CCI #41 Small Rifle primers performs as follows.
Group Size: .738 MOA (with one called flier)
Primer Crater: Absolutely None discernible.
Other signs of overpressure: Extremely minor case head shine.
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Beautiful, no cratering whatsoever!!! Yes, these babies are gold colored.
CCI #450 Small Rifle primers performs as follows.
Group Size: .33 MOA
Primer Crater: I could feel 6 of 10, all felt larger and more pronounced than the Federal GMM, but not as bad as the CCI 400’s.
Other signs of overpressure: Minor case head shine.
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Yowza! Crater city!! Same thing, too hot for me with these primers too!!
Some surprising results, the MV decreased across the 4 groups, with the Federal GMM delivering good primer performance and low cratering.
The SD was good for all 4 groups. Some better than others, each group was only a 10shot group, so more research needs to be done on SD.
Group sizes were all good. Interestingly the 2 best groups were with the CCI 400 and CCI 450's. Too bad they are showing so much cratering. The close up pics really demonstrate how bad the cratering is. Some groups were tighter than others, all were great groups, variance is most likely the shooter.
Primer performance: Federal GMM Small Rifle and CCI 41 performed much better with regards to less cratering than ether CCI 400 pro CCI 450’s. If you are wanting to run Lapua Brass and a slightly hot load, you might want to stick to one of those 2 options, with CCI 41 (unsurprisingly) being the toughest of the bunch.
All 4 batches showed very little evidence of overpressure on the case itself, again unsurprising as many on this forum are running their CM's hotter than I am. Always use caution with working up loads, and keep in mind H4350 table values are 40.0 to 42.0 grains!!!
At the very least, if you're having issues with cratering you might consider one of the better performing primer options.
I hope someone finds this info useful!
I read that article and he talks about primer "hardness". He never states , that I could see, how you find out how primers rank with respect to hardness???Read here
I think the main takeaway is simply, try what primer you prefer in your 6.5 CM, small primer brass. If you're having trouble with the primers try the CCI 41's or the FGGM small rifle primers
I run lapua brass in my AIAT 6.5C and have been running 450 primers. I haven't had any pierced primers or cratering yet. I've done load development with H4350 and RL16. I had a sticky bolt loft around 43.8 of 4350 and the primer looked a little flat but not cratered. I also have the large firing pin and it's not bushed if that helps.I've read this primer test a few times and it gets more confusing every time. I looked up cup thickness details and got even more confused, as at least on the charts i read cup thickness does not correspond with some observations in test . Cup "hardness" was also mentioned re the military type primers CCI M41??? And now I've come across new (to me) "New Federal Gold Metal Match Primers for ARs"..... so as the kids say WTF, could somebody please 'plain this to me? Thanks!
(I'm thinking of buying some Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass for small small firing pin AI/AT, so this subject is very relevant to me . )
dont know if you seen this '/ hope it helps ,,, temp sensitivity testI'm curious about temperature sensitivity. I have seen my avg shift 20 fps over a 7 degree temp change. Is anyone seeing a similar shift?
This is awesome data, what’s the source on this?dont know if you seen this '/ hope it helps ,,, temp sensitivity test
HS-6 1.21fps per *
H110/W296 1.24 fps per *
Imr4227 1.17fps per *
Lil' Gun 1.31 fps per *
RL10x .71 fps per*
Benchmark .44 fps per *
Imr3031 .73 fps per *
Imr8208xbr .59 fps per *
H4895 .23 fps per *
Alliant Varmint pro .89 fps per *
Alliant AR comp .77 fps per *
Varget .19 fps per *
W748 1.32 fps per *
Imr4064 .53 fps per *
Ramshot Tac .91 fps per *
Imr4895 .87 fps per *
AA4064 1.11 fps per *
AA2520 .98 fps per *
RL15 1.52 fps per * from 50* and up
PP2000MR .99 fps per *
Imr4320 1.32 fps per *
Ramshot Biggame .98 fps per *
H380 1.44 fps per *
VV N150 1.08 fps per *
H414/W760 1.42 fps per *
Imr4350 .64 fps per *
AA4350 .47 fps per *
H4350 .29 fps per *
RL17 1.42 fps per *
Hybrid 100v .78 fps per *
RL19 1.61 fps per *
VV N160 1.24 fps per *
Imr4831 1.19 fps per *
Ramshot Hunter .86 fps per *
H4831 .36 fps per *
RL22 1.71 fps per *
Imr7828 1.36 fps per *
Magpro 1.01 fps per *
H1000 .21 fps per *
RL25 1.59 fps per *
Ramshot Magnum .87 fps per *
Retumbo .49 fps per *
RL33, still trying to get my data for this one.
US869 1.68 fps per *
H50bmg 1.64 fps per *
This is awesome data, what’s the source on this?
++++Unknown. Unlikely to be a canister mixture that is available commercially to us, the unwashed masses.
I can tell you that 44.1 Gr H4350 will push the Norma 130 GT out of Prime brass at 2853 fps at 80 degrees with my RPR. DO NOT start at this level as all rifles/barrels are different. Work up to this if you need that velocity.
Damn! I looked thru the spreadsheet I keep on the Prime brass and Norma Golden Target bullets and could not find the load I quoted above. I don't know where that came from and I apologize for not being able to track the post.++++
Do you have any pictures of your brass after shooting or can you report on the state of the brass? Did you do any chrono work and do you have data?
I will start a ladder test starting at 43 and work my way up.