300 winmag for F class

OEFDom

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Hey guys,

I'm thinking about joining the FClass team at my Rifle Club. I'm currently running a Rem 700 Long Range chambered in 300 WM. I'm working up some loads for it now.

Do any of you run a 300 for FClass or anyone you know run one? If so how do they perform? Thanks.
 

Huskydriver

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Run what you got and go into it as a way to learn and get your feet wet and just have a riot at first. If you find you enjoy it and want to get competitive then...

300wm is way overkill for 600 yard fopen. If your recoil management is on point then sure it could work. Most guys I have met struggle to shoot 300 win unbraked at optimum condition for 3 20 rounds strings but it can be done.

1000 yard Fclass maybe but again recoil can be tough compared to some of the other more popular chamberings.

Be ready to be humbled and amazed by the old guys shooting palma kicking your ass with no scope from a sling.
 

OEFDom

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Run what you got and go into it as a way to learn and get your feet wet and just have a riot at first. If you find you enjoy it and want to get competitive then...

300wm is way overkill for 600 yard fopen. If your recoil management is on point then sure it could work. Most guys I have met struggle to shoot 300 win unbraked at optimum condition for 3 20 rounds strings but it can be done.

1000 yard Fclass maybe but again recoil can be tough compared to some of the other more popular chamberings.

Be ready to be humbled and amazed by the old guys shooting palma kicking your ass with no scope from a sling.
 

OEFDom

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Yeah 60 shots from the 300 sounds like a bruising fest. I'll run it for now and see if I like it and let the budget build up for another rifle. Appreciate the advice, I never underestimate old timers, I was running a 10k a while back and right at the 4 mile line got passed by a fella triple my age. Humbling for sure.
 

jg6.5

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Like Huskydriver, I'm a big fan of "run whatcha got" especially at first to figure out if you really like it. For F-Open, I'm sure you'll find yourself eyeballing something of the 6.5mm variety pretty soon. 🤣

As for the Palma guys - they're no joke. I coincidentally shot a few matches alongside a guy who was on the US National Men's Palma Team (Johnie Franklin). Gentleman was a machine.
 

OEFDom

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Yup I've given it some thought already, thinking a 6.5 creedmoor Savage with criterion 26inch barrel when the funds get right. Appreciate it.
 

Rangemaster

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I shot our 1000 yard state match back in may with my 300 wm, did pretty good in that wind.
But after a 100 shots for record left my shoulder with a good bruise. I was using berger 210’s behind 70 grains of H1000.
 

OEFDom

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I'd imagine it did. I like the idea of practicing with a cartridge than has enough power or energy to still kill whitetail or similar at extended ranges and isnt primarily for punching paper.

I've loaded up some 220 ELDx with powder ranging between 60.8 - 61.2 grains of H4350. Going to see what my Remy likes to eat. I'm going to do the same with the 178 ELDx for both my 300 and AR10.

Don't have data yet on the Berger's but what's the B/C on those? The ELDX 220s have a G1 BC of .65

Comparing those to Hornadys non ELD line, the ELDX seems damn good for especially as a hunting cartridge. (Accuracy speaking).
 

jg6.5

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From their websites:

Berger
185 Target Hybrid .295 G7
200 Target Hybrid .316 G7

Hornady
178 ELD-X .278 G7
200 ELD-X .301 G7
220 ELD-X .325 G7

G7 BC's are the one's to pay attention to, the G1 drag model is a little outdated for modern projectiles. Here's a link for a quick and dirty between G1 and G7:


Do you know what the twist rate is in your 300WM? Heavier (i.e. longer) bullets may not necessarily be your friend unless your twist rate can handle it.
 

ZiaHunter

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A couple of years ago at the Berger SWN I was squadded with a guy shooting a 300 WM. After shooting 45 shots for record plus sighters in the Palma match on Friday he was a hurting puppy. He mentioned he was going to use his mid range rifle for the rest of the competition.

I agree with shoot what you got and initially started in F Class with one of my precision rifles and after a few matches decided to have a dedicated rig built.
 
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OEFDom

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From their websites:

Berger
185 Target Hybrid .295 G7
200 Target Hybrid .316 G7

Hornady
178 ELD-X .278 G7
200 ELD-X .301 G7
220 ELD-X .325 G7

G7 BC's are the one's to pay attention to, the G1 drag model is a little outdated for modern projectiles. Here's a link for a quick and dirty between G1 and G7:


Do you know what the twist rate is in your 300WM? Heavier (i.e. longer) bullets may not necessarily be your friend unless your twist rate can handle it.
Thanks for the information on BC. My 700 has a 26 inch heavy barrel with 1:10 twist. This all prompted me to further research the G7 BC comparing Berger with Hornady. Here's what I found.

So the VLD Hunting Bullet would compare more with the ELDX, not the Target Bullets. Trying to match as closely with bullet weight, they differ.

ELDX. Berger VLD Hunting
178 Gr G7 .275. 175 Gr G7 .265
212 Gr G7 .336. 210 Gr G7 .320
220 Gr G7 .325. Berger Max was 210

Comparing the ELD Match would be more comparable to Berger VLD target I would think.

The Berger 180 grain elite Hunter Hybrid seemed to stand out in comparison to similar weights. It's G7 was .295.

The ELD Match 178 grain was G7 .259 and the 208 grain .339

To me, the Hornady ELDx line seemed to have a slight upper hand on Berger VLD Hunting when comparing ballistic coefficient.

Dom
 

OEFDom

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A couple of years ago at the Berger SWN I was squadded with a guy shooting a 300 WM. After shooting 45 shots for record plus sighters in the Palma match on Friday he was a hurting puppy. He mentioned he was going to use his mid range rifle for the rest of the competition.

I agree with shoot what you got and initially started in F Class with one of my precision rifles and after a few matches decided to have a dedicated rig built.
I appreciate it, yeah I think that's what I'll do.
 

jg6.5

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Thanks for the information on BC. My 700 has a 26 inch heavy barrel with 1:10 twist. This all prompted me to further research the G7 BC comparing Berger with Hornady. Here's what I found.

So the VLD Hunting Bullet would compare more with the ELDX, not the Target Bullets. Trying to match as closely with bullet weight, they differ.

ELDX. Berger VLD Hunting
178 Gr G7 .275. 175 Gr G7 .265
212 Gr G7 .336. 210 Gr G7 .320
220 Gr G7 .325. Berger Max was 210

Comparing the ELD Match would be more comparable to Berger VLD target I would think.

The Berger 180 grain elite Hunter Hybrid seemed to stand out in comparison to similar weights. It's G7 was .295.

The ELD Match 178 grain was G7 .259 and the 208 grain .339

To me, the Hornady ELDx line seemed to have a slight upper hand on Berger VLD Hunting when comparing ballistic coefficient.

Dom
ELDX and Berger Hunting bullets would be more equivalent if terminal performance is more important - just speaking for myself here, if terminal performance was more important to me, I could let a little bit of BC slide if one was objectively better than the other where copper meets hide. Since you mentioned wanting to use it for F-Class (no terminal performance other than making it through a piece of paper), I figured I'd offer a few target bullets from the manufacturer you were curious about.

1:10 twist might not be quite enough to properly stabilize the 200+ class bullets so you might dive into that or seek objective analysis from those who have experience with that particular bullet at that particular twist at a given velocity.

Speaking of velocity, I've always been under the assumption that the Berger's bullet profile has a shorter bearing surface as compared to the ELD's/ELDX's and are capable of being pushed a little harder before pressure starts ramping up too high. Again, this is just something that has come up in conversations with close friends of mine in the past and I'm going off of memory here without going down a rabbit hole of bullet profiles. If H4350 is the only powder you've played with (which is the go-to powder for 6.5CM by the way), you might try out a pound of something a little bit slower for shits and giggles - maybe some H1000, Retumbo, or RL25. Might buy you a little bit more speed.
 

OEFDom

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A couple of years ago at the Berger SWN I was squadded with a guy shooting a 300 WM. After shooting 45 shots for record plus sighters in the Palma match on Friday he was a hurting puppy. He mentioned he was going to use his mid range rifle for the rest of the competition.

I agree with shoot what you got and initially started in F Class with one of my precision rifles and after a few matches decided to have a dedicated rig built.
I appreciate it, yeah I think that's what I'll do.
ELDX and Berger Hunting bullets would be more equivalent if terminal performance is more important - just speaking for myself here, if terminal performance was more important to me, I could let a little bit of BC slide if one was objectively better than the other where copper meets hide. Since you mentioned wanting to use it for F-Class (no terminal performance other than making it through a piece of paper), I figured I'd offer a few target bullets from the manufacturer you were curious about.

1:10 twist might not be quite enough to properly stabilize the 200+ class bullets so you might dive into that or seek objective analysis from those who have experience with that particular bullet at that particular twist at a given velocity.

Speaking of velocity, I've always been under the assumption that the Berger's bullet profile has a shorter bearing surface as compared to the ELD's/ELDX's and are capable of being pushed a little harder before pressure starts ramping up too high. Again, this is just something that has come up in conversations with close friends of mine in the past and I'm going off of memory here without going down a rabbit hole of bullet profiles. If H4350 is the only powder you've played with (which is the go-to powder for 6.5CM by the way), you might try out a pound of something a little bit slower for shits and giggles - maybe some H1000, Retumbo, or RL25. Might buy you a little bit more speed.
Appreciate it, I would like to work up a few loads with the Berger's and the SMK. I'm a relatively new reloader, although ive read an ass ton on the topic. Also, I'd have to agree with you, sacrifice some BC for more effective terminal performance.

I went off topic a bit, Im definitely interested in FClass and the bullets being used. Still kind of amazed at the VLD hunting and ELDx line, they've managed to really optimize those hunting rounds.

Yeah the only powder I've used for the WM is H4350 and then IMR4895 for 308/223. Going to try some Varget with it too. I'll definitely try the H1000, especially if I start to get serious in competition.

What I'd really like to try is RL-26. With 73 grains, according to hornady manual, I could launch a 220 Grain bullet at 2800+ FPS. Any experience with that powder?

As for my 1:10 twist barrel, I guess we'll see what happens at the range, I'd really like to be able to launch a heavy grained bullet out of it to maximize overall distance, but I have the 178 Grain I'll play around with too.

I'm glad you mentioned reloading for your 6.5, if I do pick a dedicated rig for FClass it will likely be a 6.5. I'll def try that powder first now that you recommended it. It's funny I actually bought the 6.5 creedmoor die set just to convince myself to buy the rifle. Now I have a good powder choice to go along with it, haha.
 

jg6.5

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I appreciate it, yeah I think that's what I'll do.

Appreciate it, I would like to work up a few loads with the Berger's and the SMK. I'm a relatively new reloader, although ive read an ass ton on the topic. Also, I'd have to agree with you, sacrifice some BC for more effective terminal performance.

I went off topic a bit, Im definitely interested in FClass and the bullets being used. Still kind of amazed at the VLD hunting and ELDx line, they've managed to really optimize those hunting rounds.

Yeah the only powder I've used for the WM is H4350 and then IMR4895 for 308/223. Going to try some Varget with it too. I'll definitely try the H1000, especially if I start to get serious in competition.

What I'd really like to try is RL-26. With 73 grains, according to hornady manual, I could launch a 220 Grain bullet at 2800+ FPS. Any experience with that powder?

As for my 1:10 twist barrel, I guess we'll see what happens at the range, I'd really like to be able to launch a heavy grained bullet out of it to maximize overall distance, but I have the 178 Grain I'll play around with too.

I'm glad you mentioned reloading for your 6.5, if I do pick a dedicated rig for FClass it will likely be a 6.5. I'll def try that powder first now that you recommended it. It's funny I actually bought the 6.5 creedmoor die set just to convince myself to buy the rifle. Now I have a good powder choice to go along with it, haha.
The SMK's are good bullets too, I had a barrel for a 308 back in the day that really liked the 168's (not the best weight choice, but more than sufficient at the time).

I'm not sure I'd use Varget in a 300WM, that would technically be a faster powder than H4350. Usual rule of thumb is slower powders for anything with "magnum" in the name. I may ultimately be wrong here, and someone may chime in and say "go ahead and try it, mine likes it" or something to that effect, but it doesn't match up with the logic that I've come across for burn rates per given caliber.

For RL26, unfortunately no I don't have any first-hand experience with it, but I know that a lot of guys around here use it and have good luck with it. If your barrel allows that kind of speed, that velocity may be enough to offset the issues with pushing a long bullet out of a twist rate that may be bordering on too loose - that's just conjecture on my part though.
 

OEFDom

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The SMK's are good bullets too, I had a barrel for a 308 back in the day that really liked the 168's (not the best weight choice, but more than sufficient at the time).

I'm not sure I'd use Varget in a 300WM, that would technically be a faster powder than H4350. Usual rule of thumb is slower powders for anything with "magnum" in the name. I may ultimately be wrong here, and someone may chime in and say "go ahead and try it, mine likes it" or something to that effect, but it doesn't match up with the logic that I've come across for burn rates per given caliber.

For RL26, unfortunately no I don't have any first-hand experience with it, but I know that a lot of guys around here use it and have good luck with it. If your barrel allows that kind of speed, that velocity may be enough to offset the issues with pushing a long bullet out of a twist rate that may be bordering on too loose - that's just conjecture on my part though.
Yeah, the Varget wasn't listed on the Hornady manual for 300 winmag. I planned on using it for 223 and 308. I've read good things about that powder. I plan on getting some H1000 like you suggested and RL26. I'll give range reports when I do. Trying to stretch the legs on her alittle bit.
 
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308pirate

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As for my 1:10 twist barrel, I guess we'll see what happens at the range
Get that out of your mind. The guy who told you that it might not work for 200 - 240 grain 30 caliber bullets is wrong.
 

jg6.5

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In what planet? Cause in planet Earth it is more than enough.
Please notice that nowhere in here did I speak in definitives, and on that particular topic I specifically advised him to "dive into that or seek objective analysis from those who have experience with that particular bullet at that particular twist at a given velocity", but it appears as if you may have stopped short of that statement to rush immediately to the bottom of the page to engage in unnecessary retort.

A simple "nah man, 1:10 should be good to go - I've used [insert brand here] [insert 200+gr bullet weight here] in my 1:10 barrel and had good luck with it" would've sufficed, as opposed to what essentially amounts to snorting and helicoptering your wiener around for all to see.

[edit: grammar]
 

OEFDom

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In what planet? Cause in planet Earth it is more than enough.
308 Pirate, ive seen you rudely post in two different posts now. One was an unnecessary exchange with a new guy who may have posted in the wrong forum. And now this conversation, me and JG were talking about 300 winmag. Everybody knows that what a particular rifle likes to eat is subjective and that my 300 winmag may not like the heavier bullets.

But all that is irrelevant, how you speak to people is what is relevant. This may be a blog and it's cool to disagree as long as your pleasant. Your not. Act like your face to face with someone, that's what I try and do. If you said some of the things you've said in this post and the other post I mentioned, face to face within my circle of friends and family, you would have a problem on your hands.

Chill bud
 
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308pirate

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308 Pirate, ive seen you rudely post in two different posts now. One was an unnecessary exchange with a new guy who may have posted in the wrong forum. And now this conversation, me and JG were talking about 300 winmag. Everybody knows that what a particular rifle likes to eat is subjective and that my 300 winmag may not like the heavier bullets.

But all that is irrelevant, how you speak to people is what is relevant. This may be a blog and it's cool to disagree as long as your pleasant. Your not. Act like your face to face with someone, that's what I try and do. If you said some of the things you've said in this post and the other post I mentioned, face to face within my circle of friends and family, you would have a problem on your hands.

Chill bud
Go tell someone who cares.
 

XTR

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@OEFDom, Take your 300 to a match and see how it goes. As noted a 300 WM is not the ideal tool, but it's go bang and put holes in the paper. If you find you like it there are 2 roads, one is F-TR with a 308 or a 223, the other is F-Open with pretty much anything you want to shoot; however, at mid range the hot 6s are awesome if the wind isn't kicking, and for everything else there is the 284Win.

There are a couple of 6mm loads that do really well at 600, Dashers or something in a shortened 243 case or 6x47Lapua or a 6 Creedmore.
There are a whole arse load of F-Open shooters who have tried just about everything that are running the 284Win now.

If you want to go F-TR I love shooting the 223 with 90VLDs. It's a blast, like shooting smallbore at 600 yds, and the 90VLD and the 88ELDM will run with the 185 and don't give up much to the 200s in a 308.

Or get a 308, load 200Hybrids, or 200.20x and be one of the cool kids.

...but in the mean time go shoot.