300 Norma Mag

Feb 15, 2017
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Hugo
Ok another range trip and getting settled in on some loads. Accuracy is awesome with both loads. Haven’t take the 230 to distance yet but will soon. 300 Norma is here to stay for me!

AIAX MC rifle
28” 1:9 Bartlien

230 Sierra
Norma brass
Cci 250
84-84.5 Retumbo node
3.685 OAL (.015 jump)
2945
Made it past 3000 with 86 but had pressure signs.

198 Flatline
Norma brass
Cci 250
3.765 OAL
84 RL26
3145

1580 yard target 198 load. Could’ve used another .1-.2 elevation but spotting these at distance is tough! Two center hits low are 198 the other 3 are 7 saum using 180’s
View attachment 6878090
Have you had good luck with the 230 SMK? I'm just starting load development with the 230 SMK, Norma brass, and Retumbo. Defiance Deviant, 27in 1 in 8 Bartlein.
 
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Jul 14, 2017
75
3
8
Indianapolis, IN
I have a 28" heavy palma bartlein 1:9 being spun up now for a mausingfield and have a stock question. Since I have not shot a 300 norma yet I was wanting some advice. I am going to get a manners t4a but would it be better to get the standard over the elite fill for weight for this round? I am not planning on carrying it through the mountains that I know of and will mostly just be steel between 1-2k use.
 

jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
I have a 28" heavy palma bartlein 1:9 being spun up now for a mausingfield and have a stock question. Since I have not shot a 300 norma yet I was wanting some advice. I am going to get a manners t4a but would it be better to get the standard over the elite fill for weight for this round? I am not planning on carrying it through the mountains that I know of and will mostly just be steel between 1-2k use.
Get the elite T4A. The carbon fiber shell makes the stock stiffer than their standard fill fiberglass stocks. Stiffer = more accurate. With a good brake (like the Area 419 Sidewinder) recoil won't be a problem at all.
 
Feb 12, 2010
105
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FTW, IN
Get the elite T4A. The carbon fiber shell makes the stock stiffer than their standard fill fiberglass stocks. Stiffer = more accurate. With a good brake (like the Area 419 Sidewinder) recoil won't be a problem at all.
I am ordering a manner's stock with the mini chassis. Are most people running CIP length mags? I think you have to order the mini chassis different if you want to run CIP. I am ignorant to long action stuff so if I have to order it CIP does that limit the use of most all the rest of long action calibers?
 

jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
I am ordering a manner's stock with the mini chassis. Are most people running CIP length mags? I think you have to order the mini chassis different if you want to run CIP. I am ignorant to long action stuff so if I have to order it CIP does that limit the use of most all the rest of long action calibers?
You can run standard SAAMI Lapua AI magazines in a 300NM. But in my opinion CIP mags are much better as they allow you to seat your bullet wherever you need to. I've owned several 300NM and the CIP mags are definitely the way to go. Call Manners and tell them what you want. They'll get you squared away.
 

jpgolffl

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 21, 2017
916
334
63
Tallahassee, FL
Trying to come up with some load tests without testing too high and having to pull bullets. I’ve got RL 33, retumbo, berger 230s, and ELD 225s. I’m thinking top load of retumbo at 86gr and top load of 33 at 93gr? Thoughts or suggestions? It will be with Peterson brass and rock creek 9 twist.
 
Feb 15, 2017
157
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Hugo
New to the 300 Norma, but have come up with a load that is very promising.

230 gr SMK .040 off the lands
Norma brass neck turned to .015... I was getting donuts at the neck/shoulder junction
.002 neck tension
85.7 gr Retumbo
Fed 215
Shoots .3 or better at 100
SD of 3
ES of 6
My Magnetospeed said 2982 average out a 27 in Bartlein 8 twist Sendero, drop date increased velocity to 3042. Dialed 4.4 Mils for 825 yards and was high, so I came down to 4.2 Mils and shot a 5 shot group that was 4 inches wide and 1.5 tall... This is the first time I have shot it at anything over 100 yards. 825 was the farthest I could go for now (y) 20180827_093805.jpg 20180826_180903.jpg 20180730_214446.jpg View attachment 6943757
 
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Jul 14, 2017
75
3
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Indianapolis, IN
Is anyone doing case prep on a dillon 550? If so what shell plate are you using? 300 norma is not listed on there chart and when I called to ask they said they dont have a case to try it with but the 338LM might work.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Houston, TX
Took out a random load that I had loaded up a while ago for some shooting.

This is what I had:
- Berger 230 hybrids @ ~0.015" off the lands
- 85.6 grains Retumbo
- CCI 250 Magnum primers
- Norma brass

Over 5 shots this load had an ES of 10 fps and an SD of 4.5. Average muzzle velocity of 2961 fps. This load is close to pressure, and doesn't like to be shot in temps over 100°. Worked okay in 95° today though.

I also did velocity testing with some flatline 198 projectiles and retumbo, but couldn't get the bullet going fast enough with Retumbo. With 87.1 grains, the projectile is only going 3065 fps. No pressure signs, but I don't think Retumbo is going to get me to where I want to be with it. My goal is to get it going 3200+ fps (29" barrel). I need to start looking at different powders to get me there.
 

Gilly

On Target
Feb 27, 2009
576
81
28
Coloarado
Took out a random load that I had loaded up a while ago for some shooting.

This is what I had:
- Berger 230 hybrids @ ~0.015" off the lands
- 85.6 grains Retumbo
- CCI 250 Magnum primers
- Norma brass

Over 5 shots this load had an ES of 10 fps and an SD of 4.5. Average muzzle velocity of 2961 fps. This load is close to pressure, and doesn't like to be shot in temps over 100°. Worked okay in 95° today though.

I also did velocity testing with some flatline 198 projectiles and retumbo, but couldn't get the bullet going fast enough with Retumbo. With 87.1 grains, the projectile is only going 3065 fps. No pressure signs, but I don't think Retumbo is going to get me to where I want to be with it. My goal is to get it going 3200+ fps (29" barrel). I need to start looking at different powders to get me there.
RL26 is your friend with flatlines and 300 Norma. 84 grains loaded to 3.765 OAL jumping a mile ~3150 from 28”. I made it up over 85 but it didn’t shoot as well. Love their ballistics but hate trying to spot them.
 

McCrazy

Your tax $$$ at work.
Jun 4, 2008
1,022
78
48
Clarksville, TN
Retumbo is not even a decent choice with the Flatlines. N570 is really good according to Warner but about impossible to find. N570 has a 100% fill, only 2 FPS slower than RL26, and keeps max pressure low.

RL26 will get you a little more velocity but only a 90% fill so that may give you some problems.

RL25 might be the ideal choice as it is a 98% fill and only loses a couple FPS compared to RL26 and is a lot easier to find than N570.

Check out these charts from the Warner website for a 300 NM with 198gr Flatlines and a 28" barrel. Screenshot_20180915-081553.png Screenshot_20180915-081631.png
 
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McCrazy

Your tax $$$ at work.
Jun 4, 2008
1,022
78
48
Clarksville, TN
Thanks guys! I might just wait until some N570 comes along to test with. Got plenty of 230 Bergers to shoot up until then.
Don't hold your breath on the N570. Everyone is out and Powder Valley hasn't had a shipment in over a year.

I tracked down some N570 but if I had it to do over again RL25 would be the choice for me.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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Hugo
To all the guys running RL33, RL26 or any other RL powders. My questions is... Are you seeing carbon rings developing quickly or stability issues? A buddy is running RL33 in a 28 Nosler with great velocity and accuracy, but getting bad carbon rings forming in the barrel. Another friend was running RL26 in a 260 AI, same thing, great velocity and accuracy... but found it to be super unstable. Very bad pressure spikes over 80 degrees. Just like to see what others are seeing with RL powders. Very interested in using it in my 300 Norma if its stable and not super dirty. Thanks for any input
 

jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
To all the guys running RL33, RL26 or any other RL powders. My questions is... Are you seeing carbon rings developing quickly or stability issues? A buddy is running RL33 in a 28 Nosler with great velocity and accuracy, but getting bad carbon rings forming in the barrel. Another friend was running RL26 in a 260 AI, same thing, great velocity and accuracy... but found it to be super unstable. Very bad pressure spikes over 80 degrees. Just like to see what others are seeing with RL powders. Very interested in using it in my 300 Norma if its stable and not super dirty. Thanks for any input
I shoot RL33 in my 300NM. I clean every 40-60 rds. No problems at all over several hundred rounds.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
2,069
305
83
IL
What about temp stability? I've heard both, that it is and that it isn't stable? I'm just used to H1000 and Retumbo and don't want to change unless RL33 is as stable...
From a guy I been shooting with, he says it's not very temp stable and he says he has to clean about every 30 rounds in his nosler to prevent a carbon ring building up. I have no experience with it though but having to clean that often is a no go for me.
 
Feb 15, 2017
157
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Hugo
From a guy I been shooting with, he says it's not very temp stable and he says he has to clean about every 30 rounds in his nosler to prevent a carbon ring building up. I have no experience with it though but having to clean that often is a no go for me.
Agreed, cleaning that often is a deal breaker for sure. I know Retumbo and H1000 don't have the velocity of RL33, but I think that trade off is worth the stability of Retumbo or H1000
 

jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
What about temp stability? I've heard both, that it is and that it isn't stable? I'm just used to H1000 and Retumbo and don't want to change unless RL33 is as stable...
It's not super temp stable but it is fairly predictable. On average, I have found that it changes .75 fps with every change in degree. If you can find a good accuracy and velocity load with H1000 or Retumbo I'd certainly stick with one of those two powders.
 
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jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
Are you having to clean to keep up accuracy and avoid a carbon ring? I just bought 3# of 33 to work up but I am def not into cleaning every 30 rounds!
As you know, these magnums are burning a metric ton of powder with every shot. RE33 isn't the cleanest powder to begin with (most double base powders are dirtier, N570 being terribly dirty) so to stay on the safe side I clean my rifles more often. I'd rather do preventative cleaning more often than spend half a day scrubbing out a carbon ring. That's just my opinion though.

If you don't like cleaning - and I don't blame you - I'd stick with H1000, Retumbo or something similar. Everything is a trade-off: single base = lower velocity but cleaner. Double base = higher velocity but dirtier.
 

jpgolffl

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 21, 2017
916
334
63
Tallahassee, FL
As you know, these magnums are burning a metric ton of powder with every shot. RE33 isn't the cleanest powder to begin with (most double base powders are dirtier, N570 being terribly dirty) so to stay on the safe side I clean my rifles more often. I'd rather do preventative cleaning more often than spend half a day scrubbing out a carbon ring. That's just my opinion though.

If you don't like cleaning - and I don't blame you - I'd stick with H1000, Retumbo or something similar. Everything is a trade-off: single base = lower velocity but cleaner. Double base = higher velocity but dirtier.
I got you. What made you decide on 30 rounds? Have you pushed past that and seen accuracy fall or a ring start to form? I clean my 6.5 about every 200 rounds. I know I will have to clean the Norma more than that but man, if it is 30 with 33 I'll prob only use it when I need the extra velocity at longer ranges.
 

jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
I got you. What made you decide on 30 rounds? Have you pushed past that and seen accuracy fall or a ring start to form? I clean my 6.5 about every 200 rounds. I know I will have to clean the Norma more than that but man, if it is 30 with 33 I'll prob only use it when I need the extra velocity at longer ranges.
I try to clean every 40-60 rds and I never noticed a drop off in accuracy. No matter how close to cleaning the rifles were, I've shot several 1" 3-shot groups at 400y (as far as I can get out when the crops are in). My wife - who rarely shoots - put one of those groups together!
 
Feb 15, 2017
157
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Hugo
I don't clean until I see accuracy fall off. Which is to be determined, new barrel and I have about 350 rounds through the pipe... Still shoots .3 groups at 100 and shot a 4.5 in horizontal by 1.25 vertical group at 825 yesterday... Wind was 5-15 mph, 85.7 grs Retumbo, magnetospeed 2982 average
 
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jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,810
46
48
Kansas City
Doing load work up this evening with the new 300NM Moon built me. Bought 100 pcs of Peterson brass to test it out. All I can say is... DANG. This is the answer I've been waiting for! Consistent, high quality, and super tough. I wore my hand out priming them!

Here is a 5-shot group shot at 100y. 83gr of N570 pushing a 230 hybrid at a mild 2915fps. COAL: 3.600.

10.20.18 UPDATE: My barrel has sped up since this post and the same 83gr load is now producing 2970fps in virgin Peterson brass.
 

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ChadL

Learning.
Feb 16, 2017
305
77
28
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Lincoln, NE
Finally shot my 300 Norma barrel yesterday. Was running 198 flatlines, Peterson brass, RL 33, Federal match mag primers. Only worked up to 90 grains, but was seeing 3000 FPS and it was 60 degrees yesterday. I’ve got 230 grain SMKs. I’m going to run those next. Going to stick with rl 33 for now. I run rl 22 in my 280 ackley and love it. Allianz powders seem to work really well. Lack of temp stability does suck a bit, but I can manage it.


DA7D90E8-0732-4030-BA43-A7DF5DD61C9A.jpeg
 

McCrazy

Your tax $$$ at work.
Jun 4, 2008
1,022
78
48
Clarksville, TN
Doing load work up this evening with the new 300NM Moon built me. Bought 100 pcs of Peterson brass to test it out. All I can say is... DANG. This is the answer I've been waiting for! Consistent, high quality, and super tough. I wore my hand out priming them!
I picked up 100x Peterson brass as well and those primer pockets are super tight. Brings a new meaning to virgin brass...
 

jmw

New Hide Member
Jan 24, 2018
17
11
3
My 300 norma is on a mausingfield action, 30 inch bartlein heavy varmint barrel. Lri did the work and I sent the the cip length magazine and some peterson brass, and they had the 230 bergers on hand. They set the free bore to take advantage of the cip length. Any way this thing has 150 rounds through it now and I was running reloader 33. It shot every different load really well, this thing is literally a one hole gun. I found 93 grains of reloader 33 after about 100 rounds is giving me one hole 5 shot group, sd of 5 and 3112 average mv. The problem is with the re 33, after about 30 rounds it won't chamber the rounds. Clean it and it will, but damn that is some dirty powder. Ime going to turn the necks down, they are 16 thou on the peterson brass. So I put together some loads with retumbo, found a Excellent load at 86 grains, 15 though off lands, giving me 3042 mv, with sd of 4.5. All data collected with labradar. Shot 50 rounds through gun with retumbo, no problems with chambering rounds, cleaned it just to see and it is day and night from re 33. Ime sticking with retumbo. Its a shame re 33 is so dirty because it shoots so good. On a different note is anyone else turning the necks on peterson brass and if so what are you taking them down to? Thanks
 
Likes: jonthomps

jmw

New Hide Member
Jan 24, 2018
17
11
3
Had it in the cadex chassis first, and I like it alot, but for me the mpa ba is the mot comfortable chassis of any I own. I am going to do a 7-300 win mag and put it in the cadex
 
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jmw

New Hide Member
Jan 24, 2018
17
11
3
JMW - great looking rig! What are your rifle specs?
Thanks. LRI did a great job fitting the barrel, it shoots lights out, could not be happier. It's a mausingfield action, 30 inch bartlein heavy varmint 9 twist 5r. I don't know the exact neck or freebore, but I will find out soon and post it here. Bix'n andy tacsport pro 2 stage trigger, area 419 sidewinder muzzle brake, mpa ba chassis with some extra weight added, spuhr mount, vortex razor hd gen 2, 30 moa on the rail, and a atlas 5h bipod. Have only got to shoot it to 800 yards, waiting for the soy beans to get cut so I can stretch it out. 800 is a joke with this gun, hoping to get to a mile right after deer season. I highly recommend LRI, I have several guns built by them, and they all shoot well under 1/4 inch, provided I do my part. They have fast turn around time, which is important to me because Ime not the most patient person.
 
Apr 25, 2014
903
334
63
Boise, Idaho
Got to play with the 225gr ELD-M some more. It was super easy to develop. I had a velocity flat spot at 92.4, 92.6, 92.8, and 93grs. They were all within 11fps of each other.

92.6grs was my load for the 230gr Berger Hybrid, so I just stuck with it.

225gr ELD-M
92.6grs Reloder 33
26" Proof carbon barrel
9" twist
3077fps
CCI 250
3.545 COAL (.050" jump)
5.0 standard deviation

I ran that load up to 93.2 and it was at 3125fps. The primers were starting to flatten, but bolt lift was normal and no case head extrusion. I like RE33 for this cartridge.
 
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