I took a measurement as well and mine came out to 1.765" with the 90gr FGMM.For those having issues finding accurate loads in an AR, I found this on the new 224V forum:
It seems there is a bunch of bad reamers going around. If you can load a 90gr SMK to 2.3 without jamming the bullet into the lands the reamer used to cut the chamber was out of spec. The SAAMI spec for freebore is 1.676 from the base of the cartridge.
Turn a flat based .224 bullet around and seat it upside down in a 224 valkyrie case. Seat it so it barely touches the lands. Measure from the base to the forward most part of the .224 diameter of the bullet. It should be very close to 1.676"
I'm using the same dies. No problems for me but I use a VLD chamfer and am fairly aggressive when prepping virgin Federal brass. I didn't notice any donuts when setting bump at .002. The factory mandrel seems to be a bit on the small side though: I measured .005-.006 neck tension. I think it could be you need a bit more chamfer or switch to VLD style (if not already using one).Is anyone running FL rcbs dies? I've run into a few problems seating 55gr nosler BT's and 50gr Hornady vmax. I'm shaving copper off the bullets, and some of the cartridges won't chamber due to a bulged neck. I've had to lightly chamfer the remaining mouths to avoid shaving the bullets. I believe the expander ball may be too small, causing a smaller case mouth which results in excessive seating pressure causing the shoulder to blow out.
Anyone encountered this before?
I've never chamfered anything that wasn't trimmed before. I only started trimming the mouth after I noticed the copper shaving. I'm using all once fired Federal, but I'm planning or buying some starline. Didn't know hornady had any brass on the shelf yet.I am using the RCBS AR series small base dies. I would think they have the same expander ball you’ve got. I’m not loading bullets in the weight range you state, the lightest I’m loading are 69 TMK’s. I’m having no problems with tight necks, bulged necks, or copper shaving. Are you using Federal brass or Hornady brass? I haven’t gotten into my new Hornady stash yet.
I agree with Subwrx300...give the brass a bit more chamfer with a regular tool, or use a VLD tool.
Sorry, didn't mean to mislead. Hornady has 88 gr. ELD-M factory loaded ammo available. I finally found some of that, and I'll use it to reload once it's fired. I was so excited about the Hornady that it slipped in there. I meant to say, "Are you using Federal or Starline brass?" LOL!I've never chamfered anything that wasn't trimmed before. I only started trimming the mouth after I noticed the copper shaving. I'm using all once fired Federal, but I'm planning or buying some starline. Didn't know hornady had any brass on the shelf yet.
I'm wondering if the lighter bullets are the culprit. I haven't loaded any of the heavies yet. But, I really do feel the neck bulge is due to the tight mouth. There were some I could cycle a few times and the bolt would fall into battery. Others I had to forward assist the shit out of, and some there was just no chance of chambering.
I think all I can really do is measure neck width (.403) from case to case before and after each size and seat......
Sanders most definitely is not using Rock Creek barrels. A Rock Creek blank alone costs $100 more than they sell the finished barrel for.One more thing...I am using the small-base sizer because a regular sizer would not produce ammunition that could go into battery in my rifle, and it wasn't because of bulged necks. I'm shooting a 24" Sanders side-charger upper that has (I think) a Rock Creek barrel. Sanders does not divulge the source of their barrels. According to Sanders, it is a match-grade, air-gauged chamber, hand-lapped barrel. The chamber is very tight.
Did some initial load development today with Varget and Power Pro and 95gr SMK.
Tomorrow I'll be testing RL15 and H4350.
I tried H4350 and the velocity was embarrassing low with any charges that weren’t heavily compressed to the point they effected seating depth.Did this happen? I'm also curious about H4350 with the heavier 95gr SMK. I've loaded up some and hope to try it out in the next couple of days.
Given the prices of the products and what seems to be very hit or miss performance based on the feedback I've seen they're definitely a lowest bidder type deal. There was a long post on a FB group about them a while back where someone that was industry said that they source some parts from china.Thanks, I see that now. Keeps me guessing about their barrel source. Who else is making 6.7 twist barrels?
Interesting...thanks. They swear their barrels are “Made in the USA”, but they will not divulge their source. I am getting OK accuracy, a little under 1 MOA, certainly not what I would expect from a “Match Grade” barrel, as they advertise. But I am still very early in load development. Today in the mail I got a Hornady bullet comparator set to go with the OAL gauge. Now I can finally measure the actual chamber length. I just came in from tne shop...and guess what? Chamber length is over SAAMI spec at 1.730”. Looks like I am a victim of the infamous Bad Reamer scandal of 2018. Luckily, About a week ago I bought a PRI “cut” magazine. Haven’t tried it yet. I’m going to play with that before I talk to Sanders. The longer throat might be a good thing in the long run.Given the prices of the products and what seems to be very hit or miss performance based on the feedback I've seen they're definitely a lowest bidder type deal. There was a long post on a FB group about them a while back where someone that was industry said that they source some parts from china.
If it shoots acceptably I wouldn't worry about it, the maker of the barrel is irrelevant at that point.
Interesting...thanks. They swear their barrels are “Made in the USA”, but they will not divulge their source. I am getting OK accuracy, a little under 1 MOA, certainly not what I would expect from a “Match Grade” barrel, as they advertise. But I am still very early in load development. Today in the mail I got a Hornady bullet comparator set to go with the OAL gauge. Now I can finally measure the actual chamber length. I just came in from tne shop...and guess what? Chamber length is over SAAMI spec at 1.730”. Looks like I am a victim of the infamous Bad Reamer scandal of 2018. Luckily, About a week ago I bought a PRI “cut” magazine. Haven’t tried it yet. I’m going to play with that before I talk to Sanders. The longer throat might be a good thing in the long run.
Great info, glad I didn’t spread the rumor. I put together my 224V build for less than $2K total, and I am happy with what I got. I’m going to play with it this year, and If I’m still interested in it, I will more than likely take your advice and rebarrel it with the Bartlein. Thanks again, been a big help!I'd be satisfied with sub moa in a barrel in that price range. "Match grade" is such a loose term that's thrown around so much that'd I'd pay it no mind. What you're paying for something is generally a good indication of the quality of materials and work that goes into the finished product.
I don't believe the bad reamer story for a second. My Craddock seems to have a longer freebore and it shoots little knots with the factory 90gr match that so many others seem to have issues with. I know others with Craddock barrels which I'm sure were cut with the same reamer and they get the same performance. Tuesday I received my LMT MLR which has about a .040" shorter throat than my craddock and it shoots like absolute dog shit with the Federal 90gr but cuts a little hole with the 60gr factory ammo as well as my 95gr loads.
IMO the cases of poor performance are a combination of just low/bad quality barrels or the fact there's a whopping 2 choices for factory match ammo right now, one of which just hit the streets this week, and the individual barrels just don't like it.
There's a ton of 556 barrels that don't shoot lights out, there's 556 barrels that don't shoot well with certain lots/brands of match ammo that others do, and the 556 barrels are just as hit or miss when you get into the budget stuff. The Valkyrie is getting a bad rap because people are going full retard and not being considerate of all the circumstances.
If you want a barrel that's a hammer I'd highly suggest the Bartlein 6.5T or Rock Creek 6.7T from Craddock. They aren't cheap but you are absolutely getting your moneys worth.
Good info, thanks!Adding some load data to the mix. I use Quickload to test for theoretical max and velocity, so BE CAREFUL! these are mostly the upper limit of pressure. Pictures at the end for those that want to read instead.
388yd 3-shot ladder test; best loads will be re-tested after trying RE17 and maybe RE15
26" Rainer Ultra Match
Aeroprecision M4E1 Enhanced Upper/Lower
Virgin Federal Brass
CCI 400 Primers
NOTE:Virgin Federal brass is very short in my chamber and grows .012 after firing, so I expect these groups to be larger than with once-fired, properly sized cases (.0015-.002 shoulder bump). My 69 SMK load shot .4-.5 consistently in once-fire, properly bumped cases but only .6-.8 in virgin brass.
Factory 90 SMK: 9 Shot Group - .77 MOA @ 2728fps, 36 ES and 12.3 SD
Factory 75 FMJ: 4 Shot - 1.18 MOA @ 2983fps, 15 ES and 8 SD (missed a few shots so likely off a bit)
Factory 60 Nosler: 4 Shot .74 MOA @ 3356, 27 ES and 11.4 SD
Sierra 90SMK 2.280 OAL, .013 off lands with CFE223, 388YDS, CCI 400, Virgin Federal Brass
Hornady 88 ELDM @ 2.300 OAL (.030 off lands) CFE 223 388YDS, CCI 400, Virgin Federal Brass
- 25.8gr 2728fps, SD 15.3, ES 36 - 1.07 MOA
- 26gr 2741fps, SD 4.6, ES 9 - 1.19 MOA
- 26.2gr 2765fps, SD 6.3, ES 12 - .78 MOA Best node and great speed; seating depth could tighten up left/right.
- 26.4gr 2783fps, SD 15.1, ES 28 - .76 MOA
Berger 80 VLD 2.275 OAL (.010" off lands) CFE 223 100 Yds ,CCI 400, Virgin Federal Brass
- 25.8gr 2740fps, SD 17.4, ES 38 - .78 MOA
- 26gr 2780fps, SD 8.3, ES 15 - .76 MOA Should tune better with seating depth.
- 26.2gr 2786fps, SD 21.3, ES 42 - .81 MOA
- 26.4 expected to be too hot. didn't shoot.
View attachment 6920088 View attachment 6920089 View attachment 6920090 View attachment 6920078 View attachment 6920079 View attachment 6920080
- 25.8gr 2778fps, SD 23.6 , .38 MOA
- 26.1gr 2806fps, SD 7.8, .61 MOA Node here for sure; can clean up with seating depth.
- 26.5 2852fps, SD 11.2, 1.01 MOA
- 26.9gr 2897fps SD 12.0, .79 MOA - Should be node just past this ~ 27-27.2 with seating depth change.
- 27.3gr 2949fps SD 16, 1.06 MO
You mean the other way around? From the Labradar manual:Edit: the velocities listed are likely a few fps slower than actual. I had the LabRadar in "Trigger" mode rather than Doppler, which means it reports velocity as bullet enters radar down range (10-12ft). Today I tested 90 SMK with CFE in Doppler mode and with 26.2 gr, it averaged 2780 vs 2765 listed below. Just an FYI.
Trigger : Use the internal microphones built in the product’s enclosure or an external Trigger device.
Doppler : Use the Signal returned from the projectile to Trigger the unit: (Use of this mode should be considered with large projectiles travelling at really slow speed only). Do not use this mode for Firearms, it will affect the precision of the measurements.
I thought the same thing. I'll run through Quickload using factory brass capacity, Hodgdon seating depth and standard settings to see how closely they match.I wonder how lawyered down those numbers are, all the 75 ELD numbers look identical to my 22" 223 data.
Thanks, Subwrx300...you beat me to it! Been a crazy day here, had the house painted. After 3 days of prep, today was the “big day”.Just spoke with their CS team: awesome service. Super friendly and very fast reply.
No word on "accuracy" as they only test for pressure. But here is the data:
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So far, the best powder I’ve tested has been CFE223, across the board. Varget is a close second. Haven’t had much success with PP2000-MR or RE17. Haven’t tried RE15 yet, but I’ve got some on the bench. Vihtavouri of some type has crossed my mind, since N160 is such a good performer in my .243.I'm a bit surprised that CFE 223 seems to take cake across the board for best velocities in the 69+ grain bullets. But perhaps more surprising, is that NONE of the powders shown push a 90gr bullet to 2700 out of a 24" test barrel. That's either conservatism on Hodgdon's part, they don't make a powder that will "safely" push it to 2700.
Lastly, they don't list the 90 SMK which is very surprising given that it's been the primary bullet discussed relating to the 224V. I'm sure the 90 Fusion is close but.... Maybe more to come?
Any one else find that odd?