.224 Valkarye Accuracy Experience

May 21, 2012
147
32
28
34
Panhandle of Idaho
#51
With the little experience I have with the 224 Valkyrie. I have discovered DO NOT GET A NEMO RIFLE if you want accuracy. I got a Nemo rifle last week. Seasoned the rifle per their recommended seasoning process. I’m geting very inconsistent accuracy. One group will be 0.887” then the next group after Barrel rest will be almost 3.0” at one hundred yards. With inconsistent group locations on the target. It’s not the scope, Mount, or shooting platform. I’m sure it’s not me aswell. As I shot my buddy’s cheep bushmaster and shot a 0.914” twenty shot group with factory ammo at the same time. I took the rifle to them on Monday. They gave it back to me on Tuesday with groups they shot with the rifle. Best group was 0.800 and worst was 2.78” per them. But they had targets that had been cut up. Appeared like they hand picked the best targets to show me. Even though the accuracy appeared to be really crappy for a $2900 rifle. They sent me on my way on Tuesday with a box of ammo for my troubles. I went straight out to the range with that box of ammo. Still crappy accuracy. I too it back to them first thing yesterday morning. I talked again to the ceo. He gave me the impression that this accuracy is exceptable to him and this is just my issue. But he will have someone shoot it again if it will make me happy. By the way. The barrel is engraved 1-8 twist. I checked the twist my self. It is a 1-8. I brought that issue up to him along with the over gassing . He dismissed. Said the engraver messed up and that the over gassing was because I was using my suppressor. But when I ordered the rifle. I asked bout the use of my suppressor. The sales person stated they designed the rifle to be used with a suppressor and that the rifle will not get over gassed at all. He also stated I should be getting 1/2” groups at 100 yards with factory ammo all day long. That the 224 Valkyrie is their flagship for accuracy in the field. That I will be able to shoot little groups with eas and ring steel out to 1300 yards no problem.

In my opinion at this time. They built a rifle without truly testing the rifle and are only interested in making the sale and not backing their product.
In my opinion Nemo Arms sucks at this time.

Brian
Never heard of them.. but I have had the local AR builders give me the same song and dance.. telling me all they use is loather Walther barrels and JP intenals.. then you get the rifle and it's some bullshit barrel and dpms internals.. if I ever buy a gas gun again it will be a Seekins or a JP.. fun y thing is Seekins is only 2 hours from me!

I would tell them you want to return the rifle .
 
Apr 14, 2011
453
21
18
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ID. BOISE
#54
Just make sure to not buy a Nemo. Mine was junk! Horrible customer service aswell. I dropped mine off last Wednesday to the ceo after he had it just the day before. He stated they would get the rifle fixed right away and that he would update me with the progress that day and during their assessment of what was wrong with the rifle. I have not heard a word from them since that morning after I left. The gun shop I ordered the rifle through the week before called them yesterday. Nemo told him they are replacing the barrel and some other stuff. He called me and thought I would probably want to know.

Just my impression of Nemo at this time. They don’t care about the customer and after the sale performance of their stuff.
 

Lunchbox27

Tactical Password Resetter
Mar 23, 2017
295
110
43
MD
#57
Maybe I can get them to take this garbage 1/7 back and give that a whirl before I drop the coin on craddock I’m about to hook up on!
Forget the PSA and go with Craddock. Why risk going through the same BS again? Your confidence in PSA is already low. A 1:7 should have no issue with the 88 grain bullet. Hell I have shot 80-90 grain Sierra MK’s through my 223 AR (1:7 twist).
 

Bergara 6mm

New Hide Member
Aug 16, 2018
46
7
8
Memphis, TN
#59
Forget the PSA and go with Craddock. Why risk going through the same BS again? Your confidence in PSA is already low. A 1:7 should have no issue with the 88 grain bullet. Hell I have shot 80-90 grain Sierra MK’s through my 223 AR (1:7 twist).
Yeah—you’re right. I’m going to order the 22” craddock-still trying to decide between 1:7 and 6.5.
 

8pointer

New Hide Member
Nov 20, 2018
39
8
8
#60
Yeah—you’re right. I’m going to order the 22” craddock-still trying to decide between 1:7 and 6.5.
Are you going to build from scratch or buy a complete? I've never built an upper always interested me maybe this is the time I investigate that route.
 
Mar 6, 2017
10
4
3
#61
Yeah—you’re right. I’m going to order the 22” craddock-still trying to decide between 1:7 and 6.5.
When I was asking about a .224 upper, Paul Craddock recommended sticking with a 1/7 twist since I was planning to shoot just factory ammo. He said 1/6.5 twist looks to be more picky about loads.
 

8pointer

New Hide Member
Nov 20, 2018
39
8
8
#64
I have a 22" Craddock upper (Criterion 1:7 Twist). Shoots the 88 ELD match ammo just fine, even the 90 grain stuff. REALLY loves the 75 grain cheaper Federal.
I feel really stupid posting this b/c my knowledge of reloading is a .5 on a 100 scale. This guy did a ton of work with 1:6.5 and 1:7 with a lot of different loads was pretty neat. Didn't see it linked here maybe you guys have seen it already

 
Likes: Pusher591

lennyo3034

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2010
1,952
214
63
33
Southern MD
#65
My Valkyrie Shot about 3 MOA with Federal 90, Hornady 88, and Handloaded 80ELDm. Upper is currently at the barrel maker now and has been for a few months. Considering I waited damn near 9 months for the barrel, Valkyrie is not leaving a good taste in my mouth so far.
 

XLR308

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 22, 2018
1,228
904
113
Grand Junction, Colorado
#66
My Valkyrie Shot about 3 MOA with Federal 90, Hornady 88, and Handloaded 80ELDm. Upper is currently at the barrel maker now and has been for a few months. Considering I waited damn near 9 months for the barrel, Valkyrie is not leaving a good taste in my mouth so far.
New cartridge, new and varied freebore specs and a big array of bullet weights with lots of manufacturers trying to get in on the initial surge there will allways be growing pains. I really hope they get you sorted out since it is a really impressive little round, I'm still waiting and watching.
 
#67
I have built a 224 valkarye with PSA 20" upper 1/7 twist (father gave it to me as a bday gift), AeroPrecision lower with Magpul PRS stock, Athelon Cronos BTR 4.5-29, Geissele Hi-Speed Nat Match Trigger, JP 20 moa scope mount, and a Harris bi-pod.

Went to break in barrel (i know--its needed--its not needed--its a waste of ammo--insert flames here) using the abbreviated JP break in procedure, and shooting the Hornady 88 gr eld match; it was absolutely the worst groups i have seen out of a modern firearm. Didn't even want to make adjustments to the scope as it was 3+ inches all over the place at 100 yards. Went home thinking "thats what i get for trying to build a gun off of a budget upper/barrel".

Went back to the range today to shoot my bolt gun, and thought I would used the cheap ammo i bought for the Valkarye to see if there is any truth to some of the comments i have seen online about the 1/7 not being able to stabilize the larger bullets. American eagle TMJ 75 grain shot 10 5 shot groups at inch or better. Its like a different gun. Now my question is does someone make a round that is lower grain with better ballistics than this round. Looks like it will be fine to shoot at my home 600 yd range, but not much use past that.

Please let me know if any other info is needed on my setup.

I am actually looking to educate myself, not defend a bad position; so any advice is much appreciated!

I had the same issues. I purchased a PSA 20" full upper on a sale for $300. (I know, get what you pay for). I put it on a RRA lower and headed to the range. I had Federal 75 TMJ and Hornady 88ELDM factory ammo. I considered barrel break in since it was not a custom build but chose not to. With today's technology and machining specs, I personally don't think it is needed. I did a full clean and went downrange. I zero'd my optic and my son burned through 40 rounds of Federal TMJ on day 1. I did a thorough cleaning again that night. I use MPro and Slip products. The next day I went decided to chrono test and accuracy test, I had very high hopes after watching Frank stretching out to 2100 plus yards. I thought a MOA rifle out to a grand would satisfy me for this PSA upper.

Day 2: I checked the factory loads for velocity and conducted accuracy tests simultaneously. I shot prone, off a tripod, with a rear bag. The Chrono I used was a Magneto Speed with Lane Scorpion King .30 cal suppressor attached. Atmospherics: 1620FT, 31F, 5mph headwind, 1.4mph crosswind. 28.53inHg

Federal 75 TMJ. 3 and 5 shot groups at 100 yards. 1.75, 1.62, 1.23, 1.81, and .87 MOA. Max: 2905fps. MIN: 2847fps. AVE: 2873fps. SD: 18fps. ES: 58fps.

Hornady 88 ELDM. 3 and 5 shot groups at 100 yards. 1.72, 2.66, .84,1.04, 2.66, 1.27 MOA. MAX:2662fps. MIN: 2593fps. AVE: 2640fps. SD: 22fps. ES: 69fps.

I contacted PSA and explained my concerns about accuracy issues. They were great, said to send back the upper and they would look into it. I asked them to check the internal barrel specs and chamber since I had heard of reamer issues on forums. PSA rep said to expect the issue resolved and the upper back to me in 15 days.

I sent it back yesterday morning. A friend bought a PSA upper and it shoots factory ammo around that 1 MOA.
 
#69
No you didnt.
You checked your velocity and checked your altered accuracy.
Shoot without the chrono hanging off the end and see how it does next time if you want to see its accuracy.
I probably should have mentioned this in the original post. I have shot it without a chrono, No change in accuracy, only POI. If a Magneto Speed attached to a can affects the accuracy of your rifle, I would be looking at stock, bedding, free float barrel, and slim barrel profile issues.

Altered accuracy.. If you go down that rabbit hole of "altered accuracy", it is impossible to be behind a rifle, shooting, without "altering" the accuracy. Accuracy is determined by many variables, which cumulatively result in accuracy of the rifle. Those same variables "alter" a rifle's accuracy change a variable you change accuracy. If a rifle were only fired from a ransom style rest for accuracy, over time, throat erosion, barrel wear, etc, accuracy diminishes. I appreciate that people view things differently. In my world accuracy is accuracy, there are no sub-categories.
 
Mar 6, 2017
10
4
3
#72
Paul Craddock said the Criterion barrels in .224V last roughly for 3000 rounds. The Bartleins will have roughly 6000 rounds of barrel life.
 

Steelhead

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 26, 2003
628
35
28
Idaho
#73
I must have gotten lucky with my PSA 20" barrel. Now that I've found a good load for it, its shooting really well. I'm using the 90 SMK with CFE223. I had my last 3 shots of the day, after shooting targets out to 700 yards to verify dope, that basically formed a 'cloverleaf' at 100 yards. (I know only 3 shots, but it's all I had left.) I'll try to post a picture later on. I've got around 250 rounds through it now and its just gotten better.

That being said, I was disappointed in the beginning. It wasn't shooting well at all in the beginning. I didn't know whether to blame the barrel or the catridge, given all the different issues I've read on the errornet about it. The barrel still won't shoot the Hornady 88gr. factory ammo very well, but the Federal 90 gr SMK loads will shoot under MOA and better.
 
Likes: sd0311msg

Mike_in_FL

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 29, 2008
779
33
28
Tampa Bay, FL
#74
Yeah—you’re right. I’m going to order the 22” craddock-still trying to decide between 1:7 and 6.5.
I have no dog in the fight and don't own one yet. If you listen to the Every Day Sniper podcast (on Podbean) where Frank Galli and Brian Whalen are speaking about it, Brian mentions that they're both generally shooting at a DA between 4k - 6k. Both Brian's JP and MHS built bolt are 1:7. He does say if living near sea level or wanting to use the 95s he'd go with a faster twist. Craddock has some flavor of barrel that's 1:6.8.

If it was me, I'd see if PSA will exchange the 1:7 if you're not at high altitude.
 

Lowlight

HMFIC of this Shit
Staff member
Apr 12, 2001
27,399
3,441
113
Base of the Rockies
www.snipershide.com
#75
I shot mine 1-7 in Tennesee and had no stability issues...

Stability is not an issue with the 1-7, Brian was being a bit conservative, and really for speed and shorter barrels why not just use 88 or less ?

I think the twist talk is people inserting their own ideas because some people say their rifles don't shoot, so they are blaming the twist.
 
Jun 28, 2013
51
2
8
Midland,Va
#79
I shot this 10 shot group today at an indoor 100yd range. This is Sierra 90grn HPBT sitting on top of R17. CCI 450 primers and Starline brass. FPS is 2685 and SD is 4.4 1543614093985.jpeg
This is a JP 22” med weight 1:7 twist barrel. Templar Tactical matched set upper and lower. JP lightweight bolt carrier and JP silent buffer spring. Trigger is JP / Armageddon Gear Revolution.
This set up did NOT like the Hornady 88’s. I tried them with several powders and adjusting seating depth. It really did not like the factory 88 ELD ammo. I started with the 88’s and when I saw the dismal results, I had little hope for the 90’s, but I think these results speak for themselves. It also loves 85 RDF on top of some CFE or MR2000.
I am no barrel twist expert or ballistician, but I am a knobdicking reloader.
So my .02- buy the best you can afford, reload if you can and experiment, and don’t buy into the “this won’t work with that” argument. If you all recall, JP actually was canceling orders for folks who were on the list waiting for their barrels because they were not having results good enough for their standards. They even sent emails telling folks that if you want to shoot 90’s, you may want to look elsewhere. Apparently they got it worked out, cause I will take these groups from a gasser any day.
 

Mike_in_FL

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 29, 2008
779
33
28
Tampa Bay, FL
#80
I shot mine 1-7 in Tennesee and had no stability issues...

Stability is not an issue with the 1-7, Brian was being a bit conservative, and really for speed and shorter barrels why not just use 88 or less ?

I think the twist talk is people inserting their own ideas because some people say their rifles don't shoot, so they are blaming the twist.
I knew I could get him to comment, he loves talking about this cartridge, lol. So there is your answer OP.
 

Steelhead

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 26, 2003
628
35
28
Idaho
#81
Here's some targets that I shot last week out of my PSA 20" barrel. I didn't spend a lot of time on paper as I wanted to see what this load was going to do further out. I shot the American Eagle first and you can see they didn't group very well for me. I shot 3 rounds of the Hornady 88 gr. Match just to see how they would group, then saved the rest for the steel targets at distance. Then the first 5 of my reloads, indicated with the calipers are just under 0.6" at 100 yards. I then proceeded to shoot steel at distances from 200 out to 700 yards. My load was performing great! The 88 gr Hornady's did well on the steel too, but not as well as my reloads. My last 3 shots of the reloads I had left were shot at the other target on the left. As you can see, they did very well.


2018-12-01 15.58.42.jpg
 

8pointer

New Hide Member
Nov 20, 2018
39
8
8
#83
Here's some targets that I shot last week out of my PSA 20" barrel. I didn't spend a lot of time on paper as I wanted to see what this load was going to do further out. I shot the American Eagle first and you can see they didn't group very well for me. I shot 3 rounds of the Hornady 88 gr. Match just to see how they would group, then saved the rest for the steel targets at distance. Then the first 5 of my reloads, indicated with the calipers are just under 0.6" at 100 yards. I then proceeded to shoot steel at distances from 200 out to 700 yards. My load was performing great! The 88 gr Hornady's did well on the steel too, but not as well as my reloads. My last 3 shots of the reloads I had left were shot at the other target on the left. As you can see, they did very well.


View attachment 6979159
Dang that is impressive thanks for sharing.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
3,507
1,198
113
59
Central Florida
#84
Here's some targets that I shot last week out of my PSA 20" barrel. I didn't spend a lot of time on paper as I wanted to see what this load was going to do further out. I shot the American Eagle first and you can see they didn't group very well for me. I shot 3 rounds of the Hornady 88 gr. Match just to see how they would group, then saved the rest for the steel targets at distance. Then the first 5 of my reloads, indicated with the calipers are just under 0.6" at 100 yards. I then proceeded to shoot steel at distances from 200 out to 700 yards. My load was performing great! The 88 gr Hornady's did well on the steel too, but not as well as my reloads. My last 3 shots of the reloads I had left were shot at the other target on the left. As you can see, they did very well.


View attachment 6979159
I like seeing success stories. I recently had someone ask me about the .224 PSA barrels and told them the I cannot say anything negative because my only experience was with a Craddock barrel. Actually I used different words but that was the gist of it. However, it is good to see that other manufacturers are getting the round down now. As some of you are finding out it’s a fun round to shoot from the small AR platform. It’s good to see lower cost options for those that have limited shooting budgets.
 
Likes: Subwrx300
#85
I must have gotten lucky with my PSA 20" barrel. Now that I've found a good load for it, its shooting really well. I'm using the 90 SMK with CFE223. I had my last 3 shots of the day, after shooting targets out to 700 yards to verify dope, that basically formed a 'cloverleaf' at 100 yards. (I know only 3 shots, but it's all I had left.) I'll try to post a picture later on. I've got around 250 rounds through it now and its just gotten better.

That being said, I was disappointed in the beginning. It wasn't shooting well at all in the beginning. I didn't know whether to blame the barrel or the catridge, given all the different issues I've read on the errornet about it. The barrel still won't shoot the Hornady 88gr. factory ammo very well, but the Federal 90 gr SMK loads will shoot under MOA and better.
I hope to contact PSA tomorrow and get an update. I would be happy with MOA for the price I paid with factory ammo and fine tune it with handloads.
 

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
686
315
63
Cedar Springs, MI
#88
I'm in complete agreement with Frank and others about twist rates: it's being blown and blamed for bad groups but it's really just bad barrels (cheap?) or poor timing tuning. If your bullets aren't keyholing at 100 to 500 yards, the bullet is at least marginally stable but the BC may be compromised a bit.

The video above has zero keyholed shots, and there wasn't really a major correlation between a group size and twist. Maybe for the 90 VLD slightly but it's just as likely the loads he shot just weren't in a good node and/or the rifle wasn't tuned properly for those loads.

Here is a 7.5T pushing 88 ELDs, 80 SMKs and 80 Berger VLDs shot this weekend, and 88 ELD load development by seating depth. .010" seating depth can make a big difference just as tuning gas block can also.

88ELD Tuning: seating depth on top row, confirmation middle row and gas block tuning bottom row.
20181123_142221.jpg

80gr bullets charge testing vs 88 ELD load developed above.
20181130_184524.jpg

It's much more likely that those experiencing poor groups got bummer barrels, need to tune gas/extraction system, or are frustrated and simply tense/shorting on fundamentals due to their low expectations from factory ammo.

The 223 has 40+ years of development under it's belt and yet of the 100s of different factory ammo options, only a handful would likely shoot MOA or better from well tuned rifles. Was 77gr SMK load developed for 223 in the first year of it's life? No.

How long did it take the military to find a great load for 308 Winchester? Here's a good write up on the history of M118 ammo: http://www.snipercentral.com/history-m118-ammunition/. Over 60 years of development and they've finally maxed it out within the last 20 years or so.

The Valkyrie is less than a year old, handloads have no background for which to compare it against and lastly, but perhaps most importantly, most rifles are being built on 20"-24" barrels, which is substantially longer than what most of the industry has learned to develop rifles around for the last 20+ years. And most shooters aren't accustomed to immense follow through needed to shoot long dwell time barrels. It took me well over 500 rounds to develop the feel and focus to start to predict misses.

Is it tough to tune this round? Yes and no. But being an early adopter to any new cartidge you should expect difficulties.
Is this round the new laser beam? No but it wasn't designed to be; it was designed to push heavier bullets in a small frame AR efficiently.
Is it experiencing growing pains? Yes but so does every new round (including the 6.5CM when it came out)
Will it get sorted out? Absolutely but it will take time and guys like us figuring out what works and what doesn't so we can find a better bullets, create demand for betrer powders, and all around tinkering to get more data into the field.

If a particular rifle isn't shooting factory ammo well, then stop shooting factory and develop a handload. If that doesn't work, send the barrel back, buy a new one, or wait for the rest of the development to happen before buying into a new round.
 

Steelhead

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 26, 2003
628
35
28
Idaho
#91
Ok, I found a box of Federal 90gr. SMK and used it to do the (4) 5 shot groups. It was cold today. Temperature was 30 degrees and started to go down as I was out there, so my fingers were cold and I think it reflected in my shooting ability. All shots were at 100 yards. Here's a couple of pictures:

2018-12-08 08.51.15.jpg
2018-12-08 08.34.27.jpg
2018-12-08 08.34.41.jpg
This is my rifle. PSA 20" barrel with 1:7" twist. MEGA upper and lower. ATC AR Gold trigger. PSA BCG. Odin works handguard. Magpul adjustable stock (something I'm going to change soon. Going to get a Magpul precision or LUTH). Nightforce NXS 5.5 to 22 scope, Nightforce rings, YHM Nitro Suppressor, Harris bipod, and rear bag.

The very first 5 shots are indicated in group 1. This is a cold/dirty bore group. Meaning these were the very first shots of the day out of the rifle. You can see that they went high. (that rectangular looking hole to the left is where the staple was) I think that is because my scope is zeroed for my reloads. I then adjusted the scope for the next 3 groups. I didn't spend a lot of time in between groups 1 and 2 and then 2 and 3. The only thing I did was loaded up 5 more rounds in the magazine, got up and looked through the spotting scope and then back down on the mat to shoot the next group. I took my time shooting each round. I definitely didn't blast them off like we've seen on some YouTube reviews! :p

I don't know what happened on group number 3, other than I think I was just cold. After that group I took a little bit extra time and warmed my fingers up. It was maybe 5 minutes but no more than 10 before I started shooting again. That's when I produced group number 4 at 0.454".

I then took some Hornady 88gr Match and shot a 5th group. As you can see, this rifle, does not like the Hornady factory load. I may order some Hornady bullets and see if I can get a load of my own to shoot those better.

2018-12-08 15.42.36.jpg

The remaining reloads that I had, I used to shoot at distance and have a little fun on the steel.

I'm still happy with the barrel and will enjoy it until I need a new one.

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