223 Ackley Improved

fx77

Sergeant
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Nov 29, 2005
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ny state
Varget getting hard to find (best load of which was 25.3 gr)and need a backup load for 223 Ackley
Ammo Guide was not of help.
Berger 80.5 gr Full Bore Target
Anyone have suggestion for Vita V. N 140 (right next to Varget on Burn Rate Chart) /and or CFE?
Thanks
 

Huckleberry75

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Varget getting hard to find (best load of which was 25.3 gr)and need a backup load for 223 Ackley
Ammo Guide was not of help.
Berger 80.5 gr Full Bore Target
Anyone have suggestion for Vita V. N 140 (right next to Varget on Burn Rate Chart) /and or CFE?
Thanks

I run 25.0gns of imr 8208xbr behind a Berger 80.5. Runs 2888 from 21" 7tw rock creek. Silly accurate.
 
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Akaftermath

Private
Belligerents
May 14, 2013
118
114
49
26.0 gr BLC-2
CCI 400
80 gr Berger VLD
0.006" jump
2738 fps
Krieger 1:7 @ 18.75"
Fireformed General Dynamics brass
Hitting a 1.5" target at 550 yards repeatedly.
 
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trophyhunter

Gun Father
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Feb 13, 2011
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Maybe not the perfect place, but I just received a Redding type s 223 improved set

the sizer reads B/NK on it
Is this correct for a full length bushing sizer ?

the base or what I would assume is .200” of the brass measures .378”. Does that sound correct ?
 

Huckleberry75

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Maybe not the perfect place, but I just received a Redding type s 223 improved set

the sizer reads B/NK on it
Is this correct for a full length bushing sizer ?

the base or what I would assume is .200” of the brass measures .378”. Does that sound correct ?

That is the S type neck sizer. A Full length sizer like mine will say B/FL
 
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trophyhunter

Gun Father
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I don’t only neck size, I prefer to size the whole case and bump back shoulders the appropriate amount. I want everything to be the same on each firing.
 

AHC222

Sergeant of the Hide
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Mar 30, 2018
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Central Iowa
You guys have any thoughts on CCI 400s vs 450s? I've read a few people say that the 450s are better suited for the ackley due to a thicker cup, but I see alot of people running 400s as well. Have 1000+ of the 400s so I plan on using those up for fireforming, the figure out where to go from there.
 

Twitchy

Private
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Nov 22, 2007
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St. Augustine, FL
Can any of you experienced 223AI shooters give me a sanity check?

I'm considering 223AI to launch 80ELDs at 3000+ out of a 26". The plan is to throat it to take advantage of modified Accurate Mags and load close to 2.6".


I have launched 80SMKs (2.505") to 3000+ out of a throated 26". Clearly overpressure which is why I'm leaning towards/thinking AI.
 

Huckleberry75

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Can any of you experienced 223AI shooters give me a sanity check?

I'm considering 223AI to launch 80ELDs at 3000+ out of a 26". The plan is to throat it to take advantage of modified Accurate Mags and load close to 2.6".


I have launched 80SMKs (2.505") to 3000+ out of a throated 26". Clearly overpressure which is why I'm leaning towards/thinking AI.
I am at 2888fps with 80.5gn fullbore bergers and 25.0gn of 8208xbr from a 21" 7tw. Lapua brass and CCI-450. With a 26" tube you should be able to reach that goal or very close to it.
 
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DevilDocAZ

10/4 Dinosaur
Belligerents
Sep 11, 2014
1,705
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Phoenix AZ
Can any of you experienced 223AI shooters give me a sanity check?

I'm considering 223AI to launch 80ELDs at 3000+ out of a 26". The plan is to throat it to take advantage of modified Accurate Mags and load close to 2.6".


I have launched 80SMKs (2.505") to 3000+ out of a throated 26". Clearly overpressure which is why I'm leaning towards/thinking AI.
I’m getting 2,924 pushing a Nosler 80gr through a 20” barrel with 26.5gr of Varget with no pressure signs.

I think you will easily achieve your goals.
 

Dai Bando

Sergeant
Belligerents
Feb 14, 2017
450
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You guys have any thoughts on CCI 400s vs 450s? I've read a few people say that the 450s are better suited for the ackley due to a thicker cup, but I see alot of people running 400s as well. Have 1000+ of the 400s so I plan on using those up for fireforming, the figure out where to go from there.
I have noticed 450's work better with stick powders in the .223AI in regards to ES/SD but don't give numbers as low as ball powders with 400's.
 
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Joe_M

Private
Minuteman
Dec 13, 2018
8
2
6
So anybody out there running 88 eld-m's in their 223 AI? Currently running a .223 Wylde with 88 eld with a charge weight of 24.4 grs of Varget. Running 2833 fps.
 
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Doogie

Full Member
Belligerents
Aug 31, 2011
224
28
34
Lake Point, UT
Yeah running 24.6 grs of 8208xbr @2870 cci 450s.

Have varget loaded for testing but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet.
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
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Mar 16, 2008
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Flagstaff, AZ
So anybody out there running 88 eld-m's in their 223 AI? Currently running a .223 Wylde with 88 eld with a charge weight of 24.4 grs of Varget. Running 2833 fps.
My load was 24.6 grains of Varget at 2814 fps out of 28" 7 twist, but bullets weren't making to the target when the barrel got warm and with 40+ round post cleaning???

So I began load work with 75gr ELDM.
 

Geno C.

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My load was 24.6 grains of Varget at 2814 fps out of 28" 7 twist, but bullets weren't making to the target when the barrel got warm and with 40+ round post cleaning???

So I began load work with 75gr ELDM.
What was the bore diameter and groove type?
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
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My load was 24.6 grains of Varget at 2814 fps out of 28" 7 twist, but bullets weren't making to the target when the barrel got warm and with 40+ round post cleaning???

So I began load work with 75gr ELDM.
I did a ladder test earlier in the week with 3x fired Starline brass, 75gr ELDM, H4895, and CCI 450 primers, 2.585 OACL, this is it in the pic. Distance was 320Y and I did .1 gr increments from 24 grains up to 25.2 grains.
You can see shots 3, 4 and 5 did .3" vertical, I supposed this to be the low node.
And you can see shots 10, 11, 12 and 13, hit without much vertical, I supposed these to be the high node.

DSC00206.JPG

So this morning I tested #4 which was 24.3 gr with 5 shots at the 320Y, and #11 which was 25.1 gr. It was a little windy so only 3 of the 5 shots hit the paper of the 25.1 gr load but the SD was 3.8 and the velocity was 3003 fps average with 3/4" vertical.
The 24.3 gr load had a twice the SD??? and was 1" vertical for 4 shot's a 5th hitting 1" lower.

My friend and I tested 2 rifles each so the paper isn't very presentable to look at, I didn't take a photo of it.

I chose higher the node - the 25.1 grains load because I wanted the most velocity. There weren't any pressure signs and primers were not flat yet. I could have gone higher in charge weight but I'm not sure if I would have reached the next node up??? also the powder was close to the bottom of the bullet and a bit above the shoulder of the case.

Keep in mind I have a super long freebore set up for "single feeding" the 88gr ELDM. This makes these 75's bearing surface only .090 into the neck and still off the lands, just guessing, at around .030, OACL 2.585".
I might or might not mess with seating depth, so far I'm pretty happy!
 
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verdugo60

Sergeant
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Jul 6, 2010
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Denver, CO
My 223 AI barrel should be ready in the next couple weeks.

I'm planning on running 88 gr ELD-M's with 23.5ish grains of XBR 8208 to start. My understanding is there's no need to jam the bullet, that you can FF by shooting even factory 223 rem loads? I'm hoping my 23" button barreled 7 twist stabilizes these no problem at 5000' ASL since I bought 1K, lol.
 

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
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Oct 24, 2007
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My 223 AI barrel should be ready in the next couple weeks.

I'm planning on running 88 gr ELD-M's with 23.5ish grains of XBR 8208 to start. My understanding is there's no need to jam the bullet, that you can FF by shooting even factory 223 rem loads? I'm hoping my 23" button barreled 7 twist stabilizes these no problem at 5000' ASL since I bought 1K, lol.
If the chamber is set up short enough you won’t need to jam. Most gunsmiths set them up .004” short of a standard 223. That is fine for most cases, but not all. Some cases will be stretched at that headspace setting. A long time ago, I settled on .007” short of the standard case and I’ve been very happy with it.
 

verdugo60

Sergeant
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Jul 6, 2010
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Denver, CO
So the headspace is actually shorter on the Ackley?

If I understand correctly; you're saying the shoulder's headspace is a few thousandths shorter and there's no need to jam a bullet into the lands when fireforming.

I will be shooting re-sized Federal once fired brass shot in multiple AR-15 5.56 chambers if it makes a difference.
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Belligerents
Mar 16, 2008
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Flagstaff, AZ
I did a ladder test earlier in the week with 3x fired Starline brass, 75gr ELDM, H4895, and CCI 450 primers, 2.585 OACL, this is it in the pic. Distance was 320Y and I did .1 gr increments from 24 grains up to 25.2 grains.
You can see shots 3, 4 and 5 did .3" vertical, I supposed this to be the low node.
And you can see shots 10, 11, 12 and 13, hit without much vertical, I supposed these to be the high node.

View attachment 7273816

So this morning I tested #4 which was 24.3 gr with 5 shots at the 320Y, and #11 which was 25.1 gr. It was a little windy so only 3 of the 5 shots hit the paper of the 25.1 gr load but the SD was 3.8 and the velocity was 3003 fps average with 3/4" vertical.
The 24.3 gr load had a twice the SD??? and was 1" vertical for 4 shot's a 5th hitting 1" lower.

My friend and I tested 2 rifles each so the paper isn't very presentable to look at, I didn't take a photo of it.

I chose higher the node - the 25.1 grains load because I wanted the most velocity. There weren't any pressure signs and primers were not flat yet. I could have gone higher in charge weight but I'm not sure if I would have reached the next node up??? also the powder was close to the bottom of the bullet and a bit above the shoulder of the case.

Keep in mind I have a super long freebore set up for "single feeding" the 88gr ELDM. This makes these 75's bearing surface only .090 into the neck and still off the lands, just guessing, at around .030, OACL 2.585".
I might or might not mess with seating depth, so far I'm pretty happy!
The 25.1gr load shot great! Sub 3" vertical at 800Y for 7 hits. The 100Y sight in group was .6", but 4 went into .3". I just left the seating depth alone.

I have close to 100 rounds down the barrel without it being cleaned and haven't lost any bullets due to blow ups, and didn't notice any big flyers, so that's good news.
 

verdugo60

Sergeant
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Jul 6, 2010
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The 25.1gr load shot great! Sub 3" vertical at 800Y for 7 hits. The 100Y sight in group was .6", but 4 went into .3". I just left the seating depth alone.

I have close to 100 rounds down the barrel without it being cleaned and haven't lost any bullets due to blow ups, and didn't notice any big flyers, so that's good news.
Was that with 88 gr ELD-M's? Can you give full load and gun info including COAL please? That's great BTW!
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Belligerents
Mar 16, 2008
8,587
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Flagstaff, AZ
Was that with 88 gr ELD-M's? Can you give full load and gun info including COAL please? That's great BTW!
As I mentioned earlier in my posts, the 88's were blowing up in my rifle.

This is with "75gr ELDM", Starline 3-4 times fired brass, 25.1gr H4895, CCI450 primer. I also mentioned I have a longer freebore so OACL is 2.585".
 

verdugo60

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 6, 2010
1,361
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Denver, CO
As I mentioned earlier in my posts, the 88's were blowing up in my rifle.

This is with "75gr ELDM", Starline 3-4 times fired brass, 25.1gr H4895, CCI450 primer. I also mentioned I have a longer freebore so OACL is 2.585".
Thanks for clarifying. That's odd, I've never heard of a heavier bullet blowing up in a fast twist, usually it's lighter ones pushed super fast.

Glad the 75 is working for you.