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Thread: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

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    Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    First of all: This is NOT a DI vs Piston thread, and I hope it doesn't degenerate into that.

    Ok, as the thread title says, I'm looking to get 1 of these two rifles: a LMT MWS 308 or a PWS (Primary Weapons Systems) Mk216.
    Other possible contenders were as follows, but are not in the running due to the reasons listed:
    KAC SR-25 EMC: Can't afford it.
    Larue OBR/PredatAR: Very nice, but I don't need the 20
    Armalite AR-10: Don't like the mags.
    SCAR 17: Want to stick to the AR platform.
    Noveske Leonidas/AR-10 type: Also, can't afford one.
    LWRC REPR: Proprietary parts.
    POF 308: Proprietary parts, plus the raiser rail and gigantic, bulky forend are not my cup of tea.
    DPMS LR-308: Already had one. Loved it. Nice budget blaster. Sold it to fund a more precise build.

    The PWS Mk2 series
    (seen here):

    PWS site
    is relatively new, but I have seen a few write-ups about it:
    arfcom thread

    Snipershide thread

    and its 5.56 little brother the Mk1 series (more feedback in general on this one since they've been around longer):

    Snipershide thread

    M4c thread

    I ask advice from you forum members because where I live, I cannot actually see, handle or shoot these rifles in person before buying (sucks).
    The two are about the same price from the dealer I go through, so cost is par for the course, as is barrel length (both 16").
    Deciding between LMT MWS 308 vs PWS Mk216

    Between the two accuracy is probably not a significant factor, since either rifle will likely shoot better than I can. Plus, I don't think free-floating is critical for my needs, since like I said I am probably the limiting factor to the accuracy equation.

    My main use for this rifle is recreational shooting anywhere from 50m to at most 600m, maybe some service rifle matches or 3-gun.

    My main priority is reliability/durability. (Yes, I know that I would probably be bankrupt by the time the round count got high enough to start breaking parts, given the cost of .308). The reason for this being my priority is that both rifles' parts are proprietary.
    So, as I see it the pros/cons break down to:

    LMT MWS
    Pros: +More proven DI system is a known quantity (more beta testing)
    +A bit more accurate (free floated
    barrel)
    Cons: -A bit heavier (harder to shoot off hand/standing, slower)

    PWS Mk216
    Pros: +A bit lighter (easier to shoot off hand/standing, quicker)
    Cons: -Long-stroke piston system, although
    interesting and cool, is an unknown
    quantity compared to DI.
    -Slightly less accurate (non-free
    floated barrel)

    Note:
    1) For my personal uses, the quick barrel/caliber change capability of the LMT is not really a deciding factor. I don't see myself getting into exotic, hard-to-find calibers even pricier than .308, and having to buy different bolts, mags, etc. The stock 16" chrome-lined barrel is the perfect length, and of high enough quality that it will be the one I'll use.
    2) Triggers and stocks that come with each are a non-factor, as I will be installing my Geissele SSA-E and Magpul CTR (love that stock) on whichever rifle I get.

    Now I know that somebody will say that PWS's piston system is proprietary, but it seems to me that any 308 AR is proprietary. The LMT will only take an LMT BCG, I believe, and it will certainly only take LMT barrels (Quick change system ones). The only 308 AR inter-compatibilities that I am aware of are trigger groups, some upper/lower swapa- but only between a handful of makers and maybe some smaller parts. Major components like BCG, barrel, etc. seem to be manufacturer-specific.
    I may be wrong, but as far as I have read that appears to be the case.

    Feel free to chime in/flame me/whatever.

    Thanks!!!!!!

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    I've shot the LMT and really liked it. It is a bit heavy though, maybe 9.5-10lbs unloaded.

    I hadn't heard of the PWS rifles until reading one of Dmack's threads on another site. It seemed very positive to me.

    Are you allowed hicap mags up there in Canuckistan?

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Originally Posted By: BCP
    I've shot the LMT and really liked it. It is a bit heavy though, maybe 9.5-10lbs unloaded.

    I hadn't heard of the PWS rifles until reading one of Dmack's threads on another site. It seemed very positive to me.

    Are you allowed hicap mags up there in Canuckistan?


    Absolutely not 5 rounds for rifle mags, 10 for pistol. Law abiding, background-checked citizens must abide strictly with all sorts of laws, or else face many years in jail, property (guns) confiscated & destroyed (or probably just gone "missing" from the evidence room), thousands of dollars in legal fees, lifetime prohibitions on ever acquiring firearms again, while criminals get suspended sentences, community service, house arrest and social support.
    By the way, if your guns get stolen, YOU get charged for unsafe storage.
    Sorry, my rant modulator seems to be malfunctioning at the moment.

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Unfortunately I can't speak for the PWS, but I have an LMT that I really like. It is a bit heavy when equipped so a padded sling is a must. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

    Jim

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    I have a PWS MK214 as well as a MK110 and MK114. I will gladly give you any insight you seek. Look at my threads... The data is sound. If you wish for my to photograph anything for you I will.

    I want you to be an informed consumer...

    Both rifles are nice... Just different. All I can say is that my PWS rifles take anything I can throw at them. Very reliable and more accurate than me...
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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Edit to add... Please do not let the fact that the barrel is not floating sway you one way or another. I am not finding that it effects it at all. I will say though... You DO NEED TO PUT THE TRIGGER OF YOUR CHOICE in the PWS. They spec them with Mil spec single stage triggers so the end user can install a trigger of choice. I run Geissle Automatic triggers... That's my preference. YMMV
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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Hey DMack, thank for the input.
    I have read your threads, on both the Mk1 and Mk2 PWS guns. I appreciate the time and effort to post those reports.
    PM inbound.

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Benito... I responded to your PM. With your permission, I would like to post my response to you here... for you had some VERY valid questions, and I think that my response would shed some light on the PWS platform, in case others may have those same questions.

    Again... anything you wish to ask, please do. If I don't have the answer, I will get the answer for you.

    Cheers!
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    One mind... any weapon... 1*
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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Originally Posted By: DMack
    Benito... I responded to your PM. With your permission, I would like to post my response to you here... for you had some VERY valid questions, and I think that my response would shed some light on the PWS platform, in case others may have those same questions.

    Again... anything you wish to ask, please do. If I don't have the answer, I will get the answer for you.

    Cheers!


    Yes, of course, go ahead.

    I just have a few questions to add, specifically about the enhanced buffer tube system.
    PWS Enhanced Buffer Tubes

    a) What weight buffer comes standard with their rifles?
    b) Can someone explain to me what a "dead blow buffer" is? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I need clarification.
    c) Can regular .308 carbine buffers be used with this setup, or does it have to be a PWS-made "dead blow buffer"?

    Thank you.

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    LMT MWS FTW. The only upgrade is the Giessele.

    It is a robust design that I have come to like a great deal.

    I have only fired a PWS twice, so my experience is very limited.

    Again, LMT gets my vote.

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Brother... Give me a while and I will answer your questions. I'm driving back from Miami tonight. You are asking very legitimate questions that deserve detailed answers... Just bare with me.
    https://www.facebook.com/RangerProof

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Ok, sorry it took me so long to get back to this... I was in a class all day yesterday.

    So, I spoke with Todd at PWS, and he told me that the MK2 series rifles are based on the SI upper and lower billet receiver, and are of the DPMS pattern. In fact, you can use any DPMS bolt part, extractor, etc... even put the DPMS Direct Impingement bolt into the PWS carrier and the rifle will run. This, coupled with the way the long stroke operating rod does not "smack" the carrier, contributes to a VERY soft shooting rifle, and it runs CLEAN!!! I put 220 rounds through my rifle the other day, and there was zero mess on the bolt and carrier. The chamber cleaned very easily, and only took about ten minutes tops to completely clean the rifle.

    Now, about the buffer... any AR-10 style buffer will work. What PWS refers to as a "dead blow" buffer, is something they put into the buffer tube... now, I know that this helps soften the recoil pulse considerably, but I am no engineer, and can't explain how or why it works.

    You can add a MAGPUL PRS to the rifle if you like, but you must change the buffer tube out, and you won't get the added benefit (still not sure what benefit) of the "dead blow" buffer in the tube...

    I am choosing to stay with the PWS enhanced buffer tube / buffer / spring combo, because I like the collapsing stock, and how soft the rifle shoots.

    I hope this helps you...

    Any more questions, don't hesitate.

    Cheers!!!

    DMack
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    One mind... any weapon... 1*
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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Hey DMack,
    Thanks for the reply.
    I got a reply back from Stacey. He confirmed that the charging handle, although captured by the piston rod, can be removed by drifting out the piston pin, and them replacing it bedore re-assembly.

    I am still curious about that dead blow buffer though!!

    What round count are you up to on that Mk214 by now?
    I love how your scope almost dwarfs your rifle. hahaha.

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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Brother, I have a documented 460 rounds of Winchester Sierra Matchking (Federal Gold Medal Match and Remington Premium Match) and about 20 rounds of 150 Grain Core Lock (hunting ammo)... along with 20 rounds of M118LR. So, total is 500 rounds.

    This MK214 just BEGS to be shot!

    AS much as I LOVE the 3.2-17 SN3, I will be mounting my 1.8-10 SN3 on it shortly. That will bring the weight down from 12.9 pounds fully kitted, to around 12 even... or even into the 11 pound range. Plus, it will "look" a bit less silly... not that I care what it looks like.

    But, for the LE role, I need a wee bit wider field of view than the 3.2 gives me...

    I will take my MK214 apart, and look down in the buffer tube in a bit, to get an idea... stay tuned.
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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Ok... I just took the MK214 apart, and what did I find? Something very interesting...

    The Buffer is nothing special. It's just a standard, run of the mill, short (heavy) carbine buffer... with spring. But, the PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube has a nifty piece of rubber at the bottom, sort of like a stopper... that the buffer spring surrounds. This (I am deducing) is so when the buffer comes back in recoil, the rubber stopper softens the recoil when the buffer comes in contact with it.

    I looked in my MK1 series rifles, and yep... the same rubber stopper is in the buffer tube.

    I then looked at my MILSPEC DI guns, and none of them had a stopper in the buffer tube... so there we go. The secret is out...

    I can tell you, the PWS rifles sure shoot soft... I venture to say it is the combination of the PWS buffer tube, the PWS brake, and the PWS long stroke piston...

    I hope this helps ya Brother... any other questions, don't hesitate.

    Cheers,

    DMack
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    One mind... any weapon... 1*
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    Re: Request advice regarding PWS Mk216 vs LMT MWS 308

    Hey DMack,
    Huge thanks for the replies. That is a clever way to soften recoil. Surprised no one thought of it sooner.
    Believe it or not, I think I might be all out of questions for now. If I think of any, I won't hesitate to ask.
    I'll post an update when I buy (and receive) a rifle, with pics of course. Accessories (just a Magpul AFG) and optic will follow.
    Thanks again!