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Thread: KAC rifles worth the money?

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    KAC rifles worth the money?

    After fondeling an M110 at one of the armorys here on base I really want to get an M110, but hot dang are KAC rifles expensive. Just wanted to get some thoughts on this since I have never owned or even known anyone that owned one. I am hoping that they release the M110 at some point without all the deployment crap because $30,000 is a little steep but I could always just get an SR25 ER and have the stock changed, flash hider put on, and get it painted FDE.

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    Honestly no. Are they nice...sure. Are they worth absurd price tag...not even remotely. If they were closer to say 3k then ya they'd be inline with everything else out there. But they just don't warrant a 4-6k price tag.

    And I've owned a EMC and a ECR. Nice...but not 5k nice.
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    yes and no,

    they innovate and research and manufacture more than anybody eles. from sand cuts and duel ejectors on their bolts, to there coatings, to their intergrated cans. your paying for all that.

    is it going to shoot more accuractly than a Gap,JP,LMT or any other 308 AR, no.

    is it worth it, not to me, but i understand how they arrive at that price point. with that being said, LMT use the same lowers, and BCG only finished a little differently for substantially less.

    we got a chance to mess around with some of the new K1's and they are an awesom piece of equipment, but not enough to trade out my MWS and its ability to swap barrels. with a reprofiled barrel i can close the gap, and with a converted krieger .260 barrel i can out shoot it.

    maybe one day
    spaceballs

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    Yes. They are truly top of the line, you are paying for that plus the engineering you won't find on any other AR. I wouldn't trade my KAC rifles for anything... Well maybe a couple of my SR15's for SR16's but other than that, no.
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    BTW Oakland Tactical was selling SR-25 ER's for $3800, not sure if they still or not. If you can get one for that price it's really not any more than a OBR or a MWS with stainless barrel.

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    I believe the sr15 is worth the money, the SR25 series, not so much.

    And yes--i have owned both.
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    You can get an armalite 20" 308 for 1300 from bud's gun shop, throw a quad rail and a 2 stage trigger in it and pretend it's an m110. Would probably group about the same too.

    Or, find a deal on an LMT MWS. Contrary to popular belief they are out there.

    Or, order up a GAP 10. I'd say order a Larue OBR too but they seem to be having production issues.

    Or, get a JP - it won't look the same but I bet it will shoot better.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are lots of options out there if you want a 20" 308 AR with a quad rail and an A2 stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneckbmxer24 View Post
    Yes. They are truly top of the line, you are paying for that plus the engineering you won't find on any other AR. I wouldn't trade my KAC rifles for anything... Well maybe a couple of my SR15's for SR16's but other than that, no.
    Have you ever shot or even held an LRP-07?
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    Well worth it...

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    Frankly I say it depends on what you place a value on and to some degree what your wallet can tolerate. Everyones point of diminished returns are tripped at a different price point to each individual. For what I feel I get out of KAC rifles, and the things I place a value on, are worth it to me. Now if you are a young family doing a bit of the budget stuggle thing, then I can surely see the argument for getting something like the MWS instead.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" (Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Philadelphia, 1836)

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawn Ranger View Post
    Have you ever shot or even held an LRP-07?
    Yes, and I'd still take the KAC over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneckbmxer24 View Post
    Yes, and I'd still take the KAC over it.
    I sold my EMC to buy an LRP -07. Best decision I have made firearms wise.

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    Thanks for the replys guys. Looks like oakland tactical does still have some ER's left and for $3700. Then all I would need to do is get the M110 adjustible stock, flash hider, and paint it FDE.

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    You can't go wrong with the ER especially at that price. If you look in the ARFCOM KAC industry section there some posts towards the end of the pic thread where some guys found a cerakote color that matches perfectly with the KAC taupe.

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    they are great! ...only with taxpayer money

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    I have a gap10, sr25 ecc, lmt lm8mws and a repr. They are not all for the same role. If your wallet can tolerate KAC price tags, they are well worth it IMO. I have had more exposure than most to manufacturers and they do a tremendous amount of testing. Their long term success also allows more investment into the best machines, etc. money can buy.

    You live once. If you can afford it, you won't regret it. Some of the top teams in our Military and USG religiously use KAC when their budget gives them much more flexibility than most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneckbmxer24 View Post
    BTW Oakland Tactical was selling SR-25 ER's for $3800, not sure if they still or not. If you can get one for that price it's really not any more than a OBR or a MWS with stainless barrel.

    I have an ER and have had 2 GAPs. They all shoot great.

    I think the ER is a good value. I don't *need* a shorter barrel, with a magnified optic I like the comb height of a fixed (Magpul) so I have no interest in a collapsible; the weight of a ER is close enough to the short version that it really doesn't make any sense to me.

    The downside to KAC is proprietary parts and tools. Need it threaded? It isn't like you can just grab your XYZ wrench, pull the HG and pull the barrel to send it out. No instead you need to send the entire upper out to Marvin Pitts, High Country Sales, or GAP b/c they have the tools. Can you buy a wrench - sure. Priced one? Ouch.

    The SR15s have always caught my eye and some day I will likely end up with one but it doesn't sound like they are stellar for accuracy.

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    Hell NO they are not worth the money. I would put my JP LRP-07 against any KAC and I guarentee it would equall or beat it in every aspect plus it will save you money. Guns are a lot like cars and everything else, most of the time you are paying more just for the name, Personally I would much rather pay for the performance and quality. Take a look @ JP Enterprise or GA Precison and don't look back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Honcho View Post
    The SR15s have always caught my eye and some day I will likely end up with one but it doesn't sound like they are stellar for accuracy.
    I have three mod 1's and a LPR. One of the mod 1's is still unfired as is the LPR until I pick an optic for it but the two mod 1's I have shot are sub MOA with all the ammo I've ran through it which has been cheap ball ammo for the most part. With the 60gr vmax handloads and the federal AE223 "varmint tipped" 50gr it will put 10 rounds into one ragged little hole... With a 4x ACOG. My experience has been superb accuracy andi can't wait to see how this LPR does. I'm putting a 1-8 on one of the Mod 1's and probably a 2.5-10x42 NF on the LPR and once I do that I'm going to see what they'll do with some 69gr and 77gr SMK over varget.

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    Jevan126; I do not have a JP and nothing negative to say about JP or really the other 308 AR's that I have. In that list is a gap 10, keep in mind. EVERY ASPECT with any KAC is a strong statement though.

    A guy that owns a sub minute dpms could say the same about my gap, repr, KAC or Lmt lm8 MWS referring to the car statement. IMO, it is not apples to apples though.

    It is all relative. I don't regret my ECC at all.

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    I did not mean to offend anyone, I think KAC is right there when it comes to the best AR rifles you can get. I just don't think they are worth the price they are asking for them. The question was are the KAC rifles worth the money, I think most people would say no, not at the price they are asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jevan126 View Post
    The question was are the KAC rifles worth the money, I think most people would say no, not at the price they are asking.
    Most people? As in people who have owned them or people who have not or are too cheap to pay the price? I think you'll find that most people who have owned them and don't mind paying for quality would say yes, they are worth the price.

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    I don't understand why the whole "which is better" argument that usually enter into these auto-loader threads.
    Pissing match aside, we all find ways to justify our purchases and demonstrate our brand loyalties. Jevan and
    I are clearly in the JP/Gap camp where as others gravitate towards the Larue or KAC offerings. To me, it has
    Always come down to 3 things:

    1. What can I afford?
    2. Reviews from people like you (non operators)
    3. How soon can I get it?

    While I am sure the rifles from KAC are top-notch, they are not for me for the for-mentioned reasoning.

    I wish I could swing one, but I have retirement and kid's college funds to consider in the foreseeable future.

    Besides, I like the bolt guns too much but that's another discussion....
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    I can only speak to the Kac SR-15 Mod-1. I can't imagine a nicer combat style ar-15 period. Mine runs like a sewing machine, great trigger, ambi controls, sling mounts, light and balances perfectly for me. If your looking for a super nice 5.56mm then mod-1 or lpr all the way. Other companies build nice 5.56 rifles but Kac and JP would be the ones I would own. The Kac is just a bit cooler. Haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by jevan126 View Post
    Hell NO they are not worth the money. I would put my JP LRP-07 against any KAC and I guarentee it would equall or beat it in every aspect plus it will save you money. Guns are a lot like cars and everything else, most of the time you are paying more just for the name, Personally I would much rather pay for the performance and quality. Take a look @ JP Enterprise or GA Precison and don't look back.
    Someone who you should not listen to, ever OP. So much ignorance in this post, its not even funny.


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    The SR15, is Hands down the best AR15 you can buy.. Period. I have owned about 10 seperate ones, built dozens, and worked on/fixed Hundreds-if not thousands of them. If you want to know why, feel free to do some research. Just about any other rifle on the market, I can build better/cheaper with the exact parts. SR15's....not going to happen.

    SR25 is worth it if you buy it for the right reason. Keep in mind, that no one would be shooting GAP's, DPMS's, OBR's, LMT"s OR JP07's if it was not for KAC. They have been building, refining, designing, sinking R&D, field testing, combat testing and further refining the SR25 for the last 20+ years. They have features that were developed after VERY costing R&D and testing. Truth is, unless you are a savy AR builder/shooter, it won't really matter to you.

    I had one and sold it. It's a great rifle, but for ME, I just don't need that capability in .308. I can get 99% of the capability with a SCAR17, in lighter package , with some additional features. I will most likley end up with one again, because any respectable AR owner.... should own a SR25.

    Keep in mind, if you were to throw a Krieger or Bartlien on a SR25, it would shoot every bit as good as a GAP/JP/OBR, but then you are throwing away some of the features and design that make it an SR25.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobracutter View Post
    Keep in mind, if you were to throw a Krieger or Bartlien on a SR25, it would shoot every bit as good as a GAP/JP/OBR, but then you are throwing away some of the features and design that make it an SR25.
    According to KAC the SR15 LPR and SR25 ER both use Krieger barrels.

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    As a war battle rifle yes.

    As a target precision shooter for the money no. I have yet to see one produce amazing groups.

    Fit and finish is amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowlight View Post
    We tried outlawing any posting of a 3 shot group on this site and said 5 shots was the minimum.

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    Just so we are clear I do think KAC are top notch rifles, only shot a SR 25 about 10 rounds at about 50 yards but was sweet and accurate.

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    LOL, not to quote myself, but before someone goes off about my comment... it think the same thing about my LMT.... IMO, the LMT is a notch under the KAC in terms of fit and finish... I look at my LMT as more of a DMR rifle, which in all reality... that is what it was designed to do by LMT... it wasn't designed to be a precision shooter and they will tell you that when you call LMT (trust me, I have and that is what they told me outright)..... my LMT is a battle rifle... it just happens to produce sub-moa groups from time to time in the right hands using MY RELOADS (trust me, my groups looks like SHIT when I use FMJ fodder)... to get sub-moa groups out of ANY .308 AR is really really hard CONSISTENTLY especially if you're not using reloaded ammo like the 168 amax bullet with load development... note the consistent sub-moa group part of my comment.. lets me honest here, my LMT is a 1MOA or a tad bit more than that in an average shooters hands. I'm not saying I'm a amazing shooter, but I might be a bit above average as a recreational rifleman when it comes to shooting groups on paper. It is just what I love to do with my rifles regardless if its 100, 300, or 600yards plus. I just like to see where my hits are going on paper that I can measure right down to the .005 of an inch... it pushes me to be a better reloader and marksman. don't get me wrong, I like shooting steel too, but I personally get much much more information from paper groups rather than listening to a "gong" sound from steel. That's just my marksman M.O.

    now, with that said... IMO, I think the LMT is neck & neck with the KAC as being used as a recreational target shooter which IMO,,, the extra money for the KAC is not worth it. save your money, get an LMT which will perform just as well, and dump the money into the optics. that goes for any SEMI auto .308 AR at this level BTW. GAP, OBR, JP, KAC, blah blah blah blah .308 AR.... and I more than welcome (and i'm not being cocky here) to post their groups on the 100yard challenge. If you haven't done it, then don't knock it.. It's rather hard even to get sub-moa all day long especially with a big cal .308 AR (which I've only done twice with my LMT mind you since I've owned it)... I've seen everything from KAC, GAP, OBR, JP, LMT, and what ever on the 100yard challenges, and we are now on the 3rd round for anyone to prove me wrong (which I think is going on 2 years now?) anyway.... Is it all about the rifle? no, the shooter and ammo used is just as important in these shootout threads which is important to keep in mind... Trust me when I say this, I love this info, so prove me wrong. That is what this posted info is for.... as MOST (not all) of us are just average joe recreational shooters getting information from the average joe's on the shootout threads. I wanted a central location to show what so and so rifle could do in an average joe's hands while shutting up the "I shoot .5moa all day long with my .308 AR blah blah blah rifle" = the reason why I started the shootout threads.

    if you want a true precision based AR that wasn't designed for battle and more around punching holes in paper, then you better look at something more like a GAP in a 6creed or 260... maybe get lucky with a LMT 260 barrel but most likely not with the twist rate. I'll be the first to say I've never shot a GAP, but I sure as hell would love to own one in a 6creed or 260. Last time I check I wasn't in the middle of a war..... but for cheap .308 ammo with mostly sub-moa results, my LMT kicks ass if placed in the right hands with the correct reloads.

    http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers...-shootout.html

    Quote Originally Posted by elfster1234 View Post
    As a war battle rifle yes.

    As a target precision shooter for the money no. I have yet to see one produce amazing groups.

    Fit and finish is amazing.
    Last edited by elfster1234; 10-17-2013 at 01:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowlight View Post
    We tried outlawing any posting of a 3 shot group on this site and said 5 shots was the minimum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 800mZero View Post
    I believe the sr15 is worth the money, the SR25 series, not so much.

    And yes--i have owned both.

    This. SR-15 is my pick for .223 AR. To me, best 0-300 option currently. You can get a E3 MOD1 for under $2k, you're done, needs nothing.

    Which SR-25, the EMC/ECC are overpriced but are pretty fucking sweet. Again, needs nothing, pick your optic and to me, a 1-8X is just about right for a 16" rifle. I think there are just as/more accurate 20" .308s out there that are a lot less money. JP/LMT/GAP are the three that would top my list.
    The ECC has so many great features: Offset sights, ambi everything, the new flash suppressor, super light rail set-up, etc. Haven't shot the EMR, looks like it's a 1" rifle without too much work, but yes, top dollar.


    I'm down to a couple of KACs and a couple JPs. I seemed to use them the most. Got rid of the Colts/LMTs/DDs/FNs/DPMS/Bushmasters/Springfields/etc.

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    The op didn't ask all that about precision, your shoot out, etc. As someone who has both the LMT and ECC, shoot them side by side, disassemble them both, shoot and move, shoot from multiple and improved positions. Finish that and then tell me after the side by side that the SR25 isn't worth the money.

    If KAC is outside your reach financially, LMTLM8 MWS or standard MWS is a great rifle for all it offers. If KAC is within your reach, you won't regret it.

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    SR-15's are solid.... light weight, smooth recoil, ambi controls, accurate, quality parts used and great resale.... winner.
    Solve problems by deleting them.

    11B/B4

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    People are failing to realize you can get a SR25 ER for the same money as an OBR, GAP, or LMT with SS barrel... It doesn't cost any more. The ECC and ECR, yea, but not the ER. Not to mention it has a Krieger barrel.

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    As someone who has used an m110 extensively, they are not worth 1/3 the price. Their cans suck on a whole new level. The sr15 is nice and solid, but I do think there are equal options for less money. Here is the thing though. We are Americans. We need not justify our purchases. If we want something because we want it, yea we get it. If you want a KAC, get one, (just not an M110 or can other than maybe an NT4) the resale value is good, so they are generally a solid investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneckbmxer24 View Post
    People are failing to realize you can get a SR25 ER for the same money as an OBR, GAP, or LMT with SS barrel... It doesn't cost any more. The ECC and ECR, yea, but not the ER. Not to mention it has a Krieger barrel.
    But it's a lesser weapon, so you are paying more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_4c View Post
    SR-15's are solid.... light weight, smooth recoil, ambi controls, accurate, quality parts used and great resale.... winner.
    Except no on sells them beacuse they really are the pinnacle of the AR15 platform. Well unless they are selling to buy a Mod 2 when they come out or a factory SBR.

    Plently of people say the SR15 is nothing special. That is untill they handle and shoot one...... Then they are looking for shit to sell and money to scrape together to buy one.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta4-3 View Post
    As someone who has used an m110 extensively, they are not worth 1/3 the price. Their cans suck on a whole new level. The sr15 is nice and solid, but I do think there are equal options for less money. Here is the thing though. We are Americans. We need not justify our purchases. If we want something because we want it, yea we get it. If you want a KAC, get one, (just not an M110 or can other than maybe an NT4) the resale value is good, so they are generally a solid investment.
    Why are you bringing this stupid shit up here. You were already corrected in a previous thread, so comparing an OLD issued M110 to the current SR-25 crop is disshonest at best.
    What do their OLD, CONTRACTED (Gov specifications) cans have to do with anything.......And even if we were talking about their cans... The MAMS compatable ones they sell are very well reviewed.

    Please explain to me , what AR is an "equal option" to the SR15...... There is nothing on the market that even comes close. And to further prove how full of shit you are.... Try and price out the parts or similar parts and features found on the SR15 factory rifle. Anyone with an IQ over 75 would tell you at $1900-2000, it is a very good value for what you get. So stop spewing bullshit to people who are trying to forumate educated purchase decisions.

    So please, just stop with your nonsense.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobracutter View Post
    Why are you bringing this stupid shit up here. You were already corrected in a previous thread, so comparing an OLD issued M110 to the current SR-25 crop is disshonest at best.
    What do their OLD, CONTRACTED (Gov specifications) cans have to do with anything.......And even if we were talking about their cans... The MAMS compatable ones they sell are very well reviewed.

    Please explain to me , what AR is an "equal option" to the SR15...... There is nothing on the market that even comes close. And to further prove how full of shit you are.... Try and price out the parts or similar parts and features found on the SR15 factory rifle. Anyone with an IQ over 75 would tell you at $1900-2000, it is a very good value for what you get. So stop spewing bullshit to people who are trying to forumate educated purchase decisions.

    So please, just stop with your nonsense.
    Bro, you on Staff Duty or confined to the barracks? J/K, figured I'd troll around with you for a bit while you're on a roll. lol.
    I served...have you?

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    Just a dirty civy now, Sitting in an office in dc with no budget/funding....... can you tell I'm bored?


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    Lol. Yeah.
    I served...have you?

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    I ordered one of the mod 1s Tractus was offering. I cant freakin wait to get it. Should be in monday.

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    Wow, I was not intending this to get contentious, sorry about that. After contacting Lawmens, it looks like the .mil pricing is no more than any of the other top end 308 AR's. I still would really like an M110 as a collector of military arms but $30k is crazy. Looks like I will put my name on the list for an ECR and will then deck it out with M110 parts and have it cerakoted FDE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta4-3 View Post
    But it's a lesser weapon, so you are paying more.
    How do you figure? It has a match grade barrel, it has top of the line machining, it has distinctive features that set it apart from the rest, and it has military contracts. So please tell me, how is it a lesser weapon?

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    ECR has more upgrades and features than m110 with the exception of chrome barrel, which KAC says will make it more accurate.
    No way it is a lesser rifle. Nope....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter0311 View Post
    ECR has more upgrades and features than m110 with the exception of chrome barrel, which KAC says will make it more accurate.
    No way it is a lesser rifle. Nope....
    Yup.. and the newer K1 and K2 models that certain SOCOM units are buying with unit funds......(which for some crazy reason, cost less than a MK17)

    Just ignore him. He spewed the same tired BS a few weeks ago in another thread and was corrected. He is going to belive whatever he wants, reguardless of the facts.


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    I was just pointed in the direction of the K1 by the guys at Lawmens and might go that route. The M110K1 is a pretty sweet looking rifle. What is the K2?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatsob View Post
    I was just pointed in the direction of the K1 by the guys at Lawmens and might go that route. The M110K1 is a pretty sweet looking rifle. What is the K2?
    KevinB, who is a hell of a nice guy and and a member here, explains some of the versions here: WTK: SR-25 Carbine differences (5 diff models ?) - AR15.COM

    Edit: The K2 has a lighter profile barrel. Apparantey the units preffer the K1 Carbine to the M110, as its lighter and more manuverable, has updated features and is just as accurate. The K2 lightens it up a bit/
    Last edited by Cobracutter; 10-17-2013 at 04:27 PM.


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    You forgot the part of my bio where I used them as a sniper, and the part where I used sr25's extensively as a decongestant contractor for the two biggest silencer companies, and the part where the only two SR25's on range 37 at Bragg (2011) also happened to be the only two rifles to fail catastrophically.

    Good job making assumptions about people you've never met.

    I would drink my own piss if I could find one person on this site who takes you seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobracutter View Post
    Why are you bringing this stupid shit up here. You were already corrected in a previous thread, so comparing an OLD issued M110 to the current SR-25 crop is disshonest at best.
    What do their OLD, CONTRACTED (Gov specifications) cans have to do with anything.......And even if we were talking about their cans... The MAMS compatable ones they sell are very well reviewed.

    Please explain to me , what AR is an "equal option" to the SR15...... There is nothing on the market that even comes close. And to further prove how full of shit you are.... Try and price out the parts or similar parts and features found on the SR15 factory rifle. Anyone with an IQ over 75 would tell you at $1900-2000, it is a very good value for what you get. So stop spewing bullshit to people who are trying to forumate educated purchase decisions.

    So please, just stop with your nonsense.

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    Thank you for that link cobra. I am pretty sure I am going to do an M110K1 clone. It's just an ECC with the MAMS break, magpul furniture, and cerakoted taupe. They said they are not taking rifle orders until after Christmas at the earliest so I have some time to save up .

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