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Thread: 5.45 X 39 Comparisons.

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    5.45 X 39 Comparisons.

    After sevral years of shooting, and owning AK74's and Krink's, I've come to the conclusion that they are equall to or better than the AR's. I am now down to (2) 5.45 X 39 semi auto rifles after years of testiing, buying, and selling. My Krink is built off a complete Bulgarian parts kit less reciever. It's recoil is less than an AR, virtuly no weight, and very accurate out to 300 yards with open sights. Done in digital urban camo, with folding stock. My 2nd is a Arsenal AK74 custom reconfiguration, with all the bells, and whistles. Done in FDE. It's shooting ability, and weight are simular to the Krink. I own several AR's to include LWRC, Rock River Arms, and Gunsmoke Enterprises, which all are great shooters. Although ammo prices and availability, have effected all calibers, the 5.45 X 39 still remains fairly inexpensive to some degree. The milspec surplus ammo in sealed tins has doubled in price, but still way more cheaper than 5.56/.223. With in the past few years, some of the major ammo makers have started producing the round as well, at a higher price point than milspec surplus. It amazes me that when I get the itch to go to the range, one of my 5.45 X 39 rifles are the first ones to jump into the truck. Another fact that out play's the AR's is that in a pinch, they can fire the 5.56/.223 round. Sloppy fit, but shootable. The AR's cannot say that about the about the 5.45 X 39 round. So just an opinon. on my part. thanks for your intrest, and I look forward to comments both, pro, and con! Capttom1!!!

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    I (and most others on here, this is a precision shooting forum) consider "very accurate out to 300 yards" as a sub-moa five round group; does your Krink or Arsenal do this?

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    Hmm interesting you say that you can fire 5.56x45 in 5.45x39 chambered weapon? Have you actually done it yourself? I would be very curious to see the results
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmanss View Post
    I (and most others on here, this is a precision shooting forum) consider "very accurate out to 300 yards" as a sub-moa five round group; does your Krink or Arsenal do this?
    i doubt it will do sub-moa especially with iron sights. with that being said i've never actually tried for sub-moa accuracy either. when i shoot my AK74 all i want to hear is the ping of steel and im happy. OP, i would wait on buying any more 5.45x39 until the prices will come back down to the $125-150 range. as long as that round is russia's primary small arms round it wont be going anywhere any time soon
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    I have never tried it, but I am going on the research that the Soviets have always tried to make there weapons and aircraft interchangeable with NATO parts to some degree. Thus if ever they over ran a Nato position they could use aircraft parts/5.45 X 45 ammo in a picnh if need be.

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    Understand your point, will keep future posts of intrest to forums base.

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    Based on actual loaded rounds and case dimensions, not to mention actual bullet diameter, I think the AK 74 firing 5.56 NATO rounds is BS. Making their AC and weapons "some what interchangeable with NATO parts", could you be WAY more specific? Nuts/bolts/fuel/paint/doesn't count. Which weapons are you talking about? What specific A/C -ours and theirs?, Please don't go back to the 1950's when the soviets copied the B-29. I am somewhat familiar with soviet small arms, can't think of any interchangeable parts. When you say "some what", do you mean one of our parts could be milled/machine and re heat treated and then could be made to fit a soviet weapon? In that case, parts from most mfgs., from around the world, mfg'ed for the last 100 years, could be considered "some what interchangeable". Would a 30/223 fit/fire and function in an AK47 or a SKS? I don't think so, one only need compare the cases. Case head size, case length may effect head space-ya think?
    Last edited by pawprint2; 07-11-2013 at 08:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    After sevral years of shooting, and owning AK74's and Krink's, I've come to the conclusion that they are equall to or better than the AR's....I own several AR's to include LWRC, Rock River Arms, and Gunsmoke Enterprises, which all are great shooters.

    Found your problem with AR's. You should be comparing your AK's to BCM, Noveske, Knight's, Daniel Defense....or dare I say; LaRue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    they could use 5.45 X 45 ammo in a picnh if need be.
    I think you meant 5.56 and I like the other user, kiena, would like to see what happens when you try and swage a .22 bullet down a .20 caliber barrel.

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    I love my Krinkov.

    I have constant arguments with myself about going all AK platform, but my M4 and Mk12Mod1 are too nice to get rid of. Not to mention the ungodly amount of magazines and reloading components I have for .223/5.56

    The nice thing is I got a metric ton of 5.45 ammo when it was dirt cheap, so if I ever need practically unlimited ammo for a while, I have that. Plus I don't want to have to Tapco fuck some of the AKs to get them to be as versatile as the ARs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiena View Post
    Hmm interesting you say that you can fire 5.56x45 in 5.45x39 chambered weapon?


    Don't need any research to re-verify the "Square Peg-Round Hole" Theorem.
    Will engineer for ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    Understand your point, will keep future posts of intrest to forums base.
    I'm not saying that it doesn't belong on here. I'm saying that for you to say a blanket statement that an AK-xx is better than all ARs is foolish to say the least. There is one category that an AK will never be able to compete with an AR, and that is capable accuracy. No matter what barrel, trigger or shooter you put on that AK, it will still not be competitive against an AR with a floated stainless steel barrel. There have been thread after thread on here about AR vs. AK, they both have their fans (worse than a GAP-10 vs OBR thread), but facts are facts. Show me an AK that consistently shoots <2 moa at 500 yards. Just one.

    As Chesty Puller said, "You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em!"

    AKs have their purpose, and for that purpose they do a very fine job, but I'll select the AR every time I can. Unfortunately some jobs don't always have worth a shit kit, and I don't work for those companies anymore.

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    I guess that I need to be more specific when comparing apples to apples, and apples to oranges. In comparison, an AK74/Krink 5.45 X 39, w/open sites, at 300 yards is just as effective as a AR15, 5.56/223, w/open sites, recoil being simular, but less than an AR, at least the way my to platforms are set up. I am not talking about sub group precised shooting. 2nd point, The soviets designed some of there Mig models, to be able to use F4 Phantom avionics(compatable) in a pinch, if need be, and the 556 round, could be used in a pinch through there AK74 platform. In no way am I an expert, in aircraft, or Milspec weapons and there capabilities. I am just stating topics I have red about in the past. If I am mistaken, I appoligize, but we all have opinons, good, bad, or indifferent. I stated that I felt an AK74/Krink is equall to or better than an AR. I should have continued to say with open sights, at 300 yards, knocking down a silohet, and non-precised shooting. They are both good platforms and both have there role in different situations. It's hard to arguee the point that the AK74/Krink runs as good as an AR, or better in all types of conditions, terrains, and weather conditions. They both have there problems, and I enjoy shooting both as well. The innovations and technical advancements in gas piston AR's has changed the playing field between the AK74/Krink and AR platforms, but for me the AR ammo tolerence levels are still tighter than the AK74/Krink. But that said, the AR platform is better adapted at precised shooting, with good optics, and platform configuration. I am still a fairly new member to this forum, and I learn with every post, the do's, and not do's. I appreciate the schooling I am recieving from the seasoned veterans on this forum. Your points are well taken!!!! Capttom1.

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    """"The soviets designed some of there Mig models, to be able to use F4 Phantom avionics(compatable) in a pinch, if need be, and the 556 round, could be used in a pinch through there AK74 platform. In no way am I an expert, in aircraft, or Milspec weapons and there capabilities."""" I'm calling BS.
    Can you point to one real/quality test that shows an AK74 firing a 5.56NATO round? Not just, I've heard about it, or read it in a paperback, but one example?
    Which Migs? I'll agree that avionics from one A/C to another could be "rigged" one way or the other in a pinch, that is a bit of a stretch. That is similar to me stating the T-72 was "designed" to be able to use a NATO AN-ARC99 radio in a pinch. You could say the same thing about a jeep Gran Cherokee! If you were going to design an AC to be able to use parts from another, don't you think you'd start with those parts that make it combat ready?, little things like engines/ hydraulics (to include same type of hydraulic fluid), Air Frame parts, etc?
    The NATO case is longer, and the bullet larger-I'd love to see a youtube video of an "expert" firing his AK with a NATO round, just to prove how smart the ruskies are.

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    This thread is retarded.,

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    I've owned 5.45's. They are VERY controllable, even full auto, capable of putting all 30rds. in a 12" paper plate at 50m. With a mag dump and no brake. Sold all my 74 stuff a while back, and I don't own AK's anymore of any type.

    They are quite robust, however, due to the smaller bore, they have some of the same problems an AR has to some degree, ie, it's harder to clean out that small bore and it gets fouled easier.

    They aren't that accurate. I mean, they can be, but they aren't anywhere near a good M4. Just a fact. If you ever wanna see what I mean, come shoot with me, bring your AK and I'll bring my Grendel and a basic M4. Shooting factory ammo, I bet it'll outperform, but with handloads the AK just doesn't stand a chance. And if you have a quality rifle or build and use quality ammo and understand how to maintain the AR, well, it just doesn't have any true peers.

    Think about it. If there were better platforms, we'd have gone with 'em by now. Army has been looking for a new weapon to replace the M16 series, but just haven't found one suitable in over 40 years now. That says something.

    I also recall there being problems with the 5.45 projectile, in that it doesn't do what the Russians intended. It did give high velocity and armor penetration, but didn't help much with terminal ballistics as it doesn't usually tumble as intended.

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    Although I think the AK design would probably keep shooting longer in the mud, dust, sand, and grime associated with general neglect, I do not believe that the AK design lends itself to the same degree of accuracy as the M4/AR15/M16 design.

    Saying that a weapon with a 39mm long chamber can fire a cartridge that is 45mm long is pure nonsense. Plus, it would be extremely difficult to get a 5.56 diameter bullet through a 5.45 diameter bore. Even if you could jam the 45mm long cartridge partially into a 39mm chamber, and somehow get the hammer to contact the firing pin, the result would be catastrophic! In other words, you would most likely blow yourself up.

    But not to worry, Charles Darwin awards are always looking for new nominees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    Sloppy fit, but shootable.
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    Originally Posted By: InfiniteGrim
    it is nearly the same, less all the features.
    Originally Posted by: Skg_Mre_Lght
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    My Arsenal AK-74 is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. The cost of ammo is not bad the accuracy is also great. I can just blast away and it still keeps going bang. I have not used one with a scope but I think if you are going to mount a scope the AR platform is a better way to go.

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    I own a couple of AK ( 47 and 74 ) that were custom builds a few years ago and they are what they are... they hit minute of man at 300 if need to do so arises... that being said i can shoot both platforms Ak and AR with proficiency and all i have to say is that its a personal preference. both platforms have their pluses and minuses, but IMHO the AK platform is a great shit hit the fan scenario weapon for many reasons, but they are my reasons. AR would be more smarter choice from logistic point of view, unless you stacked up on 5.45 ammo. And to the OP i would not post something like " you can fire 5.56 out 5.45 weapon " anywhere where people actually know a thing or two about firearms and ammunition, or can use google... Airsoft and paintball forums is where that kind of information will be welcomed with open arms and shared among their facebook\twtter\whatever buddies and eventually will make its way to one of so called experts and they will write a great article about it in one of the most informative gun magazines.... So, that being said im glad you enjoy your AKs and hopefully you will be careful when loading mags .
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    [img] photo DSCN0954_zps3ad78e90.jpg[/img][img] photo DSCN0955_zpseb5bb1d0.jpg[/img][img] photo DSCN0956_zps7a0b2a5e.jpg[/img]

    I used to work with a guy who was is the National Guard for 30 years or something like that and he swore 5.56 would work in the AK74 because one of his superiors told him so. Im not exactly sure if it was an honest misunderstanding or some sort of lie crafted to make young recruits fear the commies; but there is no way it works, not to even start with magazine issues. That is a Bulgarian AK74 barrel btw and both the 223 and 5.45 are mil spec. I love my AKs as well as my ARs, but lets not beat a dead horse

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    I must admit I am disappointed! For some reason, I thought we were going to see the firing of some 5.56NATO rounds from one of the posters AK 74 today. If they are going to do so tomorrow, not still photos! Full video please-put it on you tube, it would be great!

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    Another fact that out play's the AR's is that in a pinch, they can fire the 5.56/.223 round.
    No. Wrong. You don't know what you are talking about.

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    lol 5.56 in 5.45
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    Funny I had a Vietnam vet tell me that "their rifles could fire our ammo but our rifles couldn't fire theirs". I respectfully nodded and said "Oh that's interesting". He's a good guy just got misinformed somewhere.

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    ^^Let me guess, a commie AK-47 could fire 7.62NATO in a pinch! Or out 5.56, in a pinch! I would like to see this demonstrated on Youtube also, video please, it would be great. I'm not sure how much damage the out of battery firing (if it could be made to happen) would cause the gun ( I'm guessing it would be finished) but if the knowledgeable shooter, would wear a cotton T-shirt (wife beater type) I believe we could get a pretty good idea of the damage the shooter got!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pawprint2 View Post
    ^^Let me guess, a commie AK-47 could fire 7.62NATO in a pinch!
    I have seen a guy shoot a 30 cal bullet he reloaded to shoot in his mini-thirty (7.62x39, .311 diameter), does that count? He must have put a monster crimp on it. It didn't go very far out of the barrel.

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    Sloppy fit, but shootable?

    I see a catastrophe in the making.

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    Alright the is no friggin way any AK with irons can run with an AR with irons at 300- just look at your sight set ups. The AR's A2 adjustable peep and far longer sight radius compared to the AK's notched leaf (circa mid to late 1800's design). I dumped all my ComBloc crap 20yrs ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmanss View Post
    I (and most others on here, this is a precision shooting forum) consider "very accurate out to 300 yards" as a sub-moa five round group; does your Krink or Arsenal do this?
    Really, the OP is discussing an AK battle rifle and surplus ammo, and the conclusion you jump to is it's SUB MOA at 300 yards? Wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_in_FL View Post
    I think you meant 5.56 and I like the other user, kiena, would like to see what happens when you try and swage a .22 bullet down a .20 caliber barrel.
    I think you will find that a .224 won't have as much of a problem in a .221 barrel as it would a .20 barrel.
    Last edited by shaman; 07-16-2013 at 10:01 AM.
    Looking for an AR and rimfire stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaman View Post
    Really, the OP is discussing an AK battle rifle and surplus ammo, and the conclusion you jump to is it's SUB MOA at 300 yards? Wow!
    Yep, I sure did and later said to show me one AK that can hold <2moa at 500 yards. The silence is still deafening...

    AK better than AR; my (not) dying ass because I carry an AR for work and can actually hit the enemy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiena View Post
    And to the OP i would not post something like " you can fire 5.56 out 5.45 weapon " anywhere where people actually know a thing or two about firearms and ammunition. .
    What would be worse, is saying this to people that don't know a thing or two about firearms, and them actually trying it because they read it somewhere! K-tech's pictures are worth a 1000 words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    After sevral years of shooting, and owning AK74's and Krink's, I've come to the conclusion that they are equall to or better than the AR's. I am now down to (2) 5.45 X 39 semi auto rifles after years of testiing, buying, and selling. My Krink is built off a complete Bulgarian parts kit less reciever. It's recoil is less than an AR, virtuly no weight, and very accurate out to 300 yards with open sights. Done in digital urban camo, with folding stock. My 2nd is a Arsenal AK74 custom reconfiguration, with all the bells, and whistles. Done in FDE. It's shooting ability, and weight are simular to the Krink. I own several AR's to include LWRC, Rock River Arms, and Gunsmoke Enterprises, which all are great shooters. Although ammo prices and availability, have effected all calibers, the 5.45 X 39 still remains fairly inexpensive to some degree. The milspec surplus ammo in sealed tins has doubled in price, but still way more cheaper than 5.56/.223. With in the past few years, some of the major ammo makers have started producing the round as well, at a higher price point than milspec surplus. It amazes me that when I get the itch to go to the range, one of my 5.45 X 39 rifles are the first ones to jump into the truck. Another fact that out play's the AR's is that in a pinch, they can fire the 5.56/.223 round. Sloppy fit, but shootable. The AR's cannot say that about the about the 5.45 X 39 round. So just an opinon. on my part. thanks for your intrest, and I look forward to comments both, pro, and con! Capttom1!!!
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    The only interchangable thing i can remember is 82mm mortar which can fire american 81mm mine with one hell of a reduced range (out of my head max range for american mine would have max range 2800 meters or something and 82mm mine designed for this mortar would have over 6000m).

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    Will the real Will Hayden please stand up, please stand up, please stand up

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    DO NOT BE AN IDIOT and try and shoot different calibers in different rifle. I don't care what the manual says, what you saw in some movie, or what that SF/SEAL/SPETNAZ at the local pawn shop told you. Use some common sense, this isn't Leningrad.

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    Sure I’ve been called a xenophobe, but the truth is I’m not. Honestly, I just feel that America is the best country and all the other countries aren’t as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttom1 View Post
    The soviets designed some of there Mig models, to be able to use F4 Phantom avionics(compatable) in a pinch, if need be, and the 556 round, could be used in a pinch through there AK74 platform.
    This ingenuity must be why they won the Cold War.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaman View Post
    Really, the OP is discussing an AK battle rifle and surplus ammo, and the conclusion you jump to is it's SUB MOA at 300 yards? Wow!



    I think you will find that a .224 won't have as much of a problem in a .221 barrel as it would a .20 barrel.

    I have no idea of what you're talking about and I own an Adams Arms 5.45x39 upper, but maybe you enjoy hammering a cleaning rod down the barrel? Apparently you wouldn't believe Alexander Arms calling it a .21 Genghis either.

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    3odpyw.jpg

    Would you believe me?
    Every time I bump fire I know I become a better shooter because it is more rounds down range and that equals improvement

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    Holy shit, we need a basic competency exam to be a member here. This shit is getting bad.

    We all say retarded shit sometimes, but goddamn. I don't even know where to start?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_in_FL View Post
    I think you meant 5.56 and I like the other user, kiena, would like to see what happens when you try and swage a .22 bullet down a .20 caliber barrel.


    *BOOM* ... headshot!


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    :-D
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-tech View Post
    [img] photo DSCN0956_zps7a0b2a5e.jpg[/img]

    I used to work with a guy who was is the National Guard for 30 years or something like that and he swore 5.56 would work in the AK74 because one of his superiors told him so. Im not exactly sure if it was an honest misunderstanding or some sort of lie crafted to make young recruits fear the commies; but there is no way it works, not to even start with magazine issues. That is a Bulgarian AK74 barrel btw and both the 223 and 5.45 are mil spec. I love my AKs as well as my ARs, but lets not beat a dead horse
    See... you forgot the cockpit latch from your F4 phantom to bolt on the Ak-74 as a forward assist... that’s why it don’t work... nor the reshaped tail hook extractor (Navy model) for positive extraction of the 5.56 case from the 5.45 chamber...

    Doubters...

    ROTFL
    Last edited by Niles Coyote; 07-16-2013 at 02:20 PM.
    Good transactions (bought and sold) with the following Good Guys:

    http://forum.snipershide.com/firearm...tml#post818781

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-tech View Post
    [img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]

    I used to work with a guy who was is the National Guard for 30 years or something like that and he swore 5.56 would work in the AK74 because one of his superiors told him so. Im not exactly sure if it was an honest misunderstanding or some sort of lie crafted to make young recruits fear the commies; but there is no way it works, not to even start with magazine issues. That is a Bulgarian AK74 barrel btw and both the 223 and 5.45 are mil spec. I love my AKs as well as my ARs, but lets not beat a dead horse

    Taking the above pictures into account, maybe it is being implied that a redefinition of the phrase "firing from an open bolt" needs to be completed. I'm just sayin'.
    God Bless, Stay Safe, and Remember! Go big, or go home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean the Nailer View Post
    Taking the above pictures into account, maybe it is being implied that a redefinition of the phrase "firing from an open bolt" needs to be completed. I'm just sayin'.
    This "living on the prairie" thing seems to give you a rather liberal attitude towards catastrophic failures. Just because you have unlimited horizons at the ends of empty fields in all directions doesn't mean that you can escape the wrath of abused COMBLOC AK74 steel contending with overstuffed chambers. Think string, strong cord, really, a long, long length of it, and earthen berms.

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    i have seen a guy mistakenly shoot a 260rem through his 308win. it will go bang but the results were not good. the bullet just tumbled out of the barrel and hit the dirt about 80yds in front of the barrel

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    If you thing the Soviets would build anything to be able to use western parts you are sadly mistaken. It's not that they would not think of possibly using captured supplies, it's that they don't want anyone else to be able to use Soviet stuff. Ask me now I know... I was born there lol. Both my parents were engineers, and two of my grandparents were engineers (Maybe why I am an architect) everything they designed was intended to never be comparable with any western standard.

    After The Great Patriotic War (WW2) the Soviets changed the gauge of their rail road system in order to never again allow an enemy to be able to use the Soviet rail system against them. That was the prevailing mentality, not use of captured NATO assets.

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