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Thread: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

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    Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Just got my new MKII TR a few days ago and ofcourse I'll start with a few pictures.
    (Newer pics further down)




    <span style="text-decoration: underline">My current setup:</span>
    Savage MKII TR 22LR
    Leapers 4-16x50 Scope
    Weaver Quad-Lock Rings
    Shooters Ridge 6-9&quot; Bipod

    So far I'm very pleased with my new rifle. I'm just starting to get comfortable after roughly 300 rounds through it. This rifle already shoots quite well with cheap ammo but I'm looking for some advice for fine tuning the accuracy.

    I understand that higher quality optics will yield better results but for now this setup will work. I also understand that simply shooting the rifle more will help as I get used to it. My trigger is set at the lowest breaking weight. I plan on purchasing some Wolf Match ammo to try very soon.

    I've read that tuning the torque of the receiver bolts can produce improved accuracy. Do I need to get the thicker 1/8&quot; base plate if I'm going to experiment with the torque? What amount of in-lbs work best on your TR?

    Any advice &amp; tips are much appreciated! I look forward to seeing what you guys have to say - Thanks


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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryanmc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So far I'm very pleased with my new rifle. I'm just starting to get comfortable after roughly 300 rounds through it. This rifle already shoots quite well with cheap ammo but I'm looking for some advice for fine tuning the accuracy.

    I understand that higher quality optics will yield better results but for now this setup will work. I also understand that simply shooting the rifle more will help as I get used to it. My trigger is set at the lowest breaking weight. I plan on purchasing some Wolf Match ammo to try very soon.

    I've read that tuning the torque of the receiver bolts can produce improved accuracy. Do I need to get the thicker 1/8&quot; base plate if I'm going to experiment with the torque? What amount of in-lbs work best on your TR?

    Any advice &amp; tips are much appreciated! I look forward to seeing what you guys have to say - Thanks</div></div>

    You've alredy got it all covered then. The Wolf MT is pretty well liked by most people's rifles, so I'm sure it'll serve you well. If you want the absolute best that you can get, you will have to try everything and then once you've zero'd in on the ones your rifle seems to like best you can test lots. Once you've found that magic lot # you can order a bunch of it and wait to shoot it all up and do the whole process over again... Or you can avoid the headaches and just use whatever works [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

    For the torque, yeah... you're going to need the thicker bottom metal. Just to give you an idea, the torque settings from the factory came lose after about 1200 rounds and I was told to only finger tighten the screws. So I did, but to my displeasure I couldn't even finger tighten them before the metal started to bend and I could hear the wood creaking due to a lack of uniform pressure. Both of these problems are easily fixed with the 1/8&quot; metal. Which I haven't yet gotten for my own rifle [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif[/img]

    Other things that come to mind to increase inherent accuracy would be to pillar bed and glass bed the action into the stock. You could also have the barrel re-crowned. It may not be problematic but i've read alot of claims for accuracy increases from a simple re-crown job. I guess these rifles generally benefit from such a service, but as always, YMMV....

    Oh, and there are also alot of people who swear by barrel tuners. They aren't cheap, but alot of people get better results from using them. On the other side of that, there are just as many people who sweat at them for being very finicky and difficult to keep in tune and yadda yadda yadda. I've never tried one, so I can't make suggestions for or against them based off of any personal experience.

    Having said all that, finding the best ammo is by far the most important chore. It may take a while, but you'd be supprised how much it can effect your group sizes. Everything else will just be after the fact, but I do advize replacement of the bottom metal... the factory unit is junk.

    Hope this helps,
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Wolf MT or Eley Target ammo - very nice results out of both my Mark II's.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    While the Accutrigger is a decent design and provides a above average factory trigger it is not without flaws. The break on my MKII is far heavier than the break on my 10FP. I suspect this is the norm and Savage rimfires are meant to have a heavier pull than centerfires. If I had one complaint about my MKII it is the trigger pull. I think it is preventing me from achieving the full accuracy potential of the rifle. I will be replacing it soon. I have had my Accutrigger on my 308 lock up a few different times, luckily never at a match. So my first piece of advice is to replace with a rifle basix when you are able. Second piece of advice is to drive to the nearest Dicks Sporting Goods and buy the blue box CCI standard velocity ammo. Every Savage I have seen loves it and many guys here will agree. For me it prints slightly larger groups than Wolf MT and the CCI I have used seems to have a flier about once a box of 50. For the price $22 per brick it simply can't be beat. Nice looking rifle by the way! Happy shooting.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Thank you for the good advice, the more I read into glass bedding the more I'd like to go for it.

    Will definitely be trying the Wolf out, I had tried some CCI Mini-Mags with mediocre results but didn't try the standard velocity ones, I'll have to give them a shot for a good practicing round.

    Thanks again for your help gentlemen!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    My MKII FV (in a Tacticool stock) really likes Wolf MT and CCI SV. They will both hit to the same point of impact with the CCI turning in just slightly larger groups, so I shoot both.

    The torque setting do seem to make a difference. Bedding (lots of debate about whether simple bedding or pillar bedding is required) will also pull out a bit more accuracy. Go for it.

    Charlie

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    get a rifle basix trigger and the 1/8&quot; bottom metal.
    My 2 savage 22lrs like lapua center-x and fiocchi biathlon match. the fiocchi has a little more velocity at 1120fps (centerx at 1073), but both shoot equally well out to 200 and are very reliable (although the center-x may be a hair more consistent).
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Are you guys bedding the barrel or the action on the MKII or both?

    Do you take the trigger group off to bed the action?

    If you bed the barrel how do you address the barrel fluting (FV-SR)?

    Thanks

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Are you guys bedding the barrel or the action on the MKII or both?

    Do you take the trigger group off to bed the action?

    If you bed the barrel how do you address the barrel fluting (FV-SR)?

    Thanks

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I got tired of the flimsy bottom metal and made one from carbon fiber since mine lasted all of about 100 rounds before the bolt was loose. I still wasn't happy so I made pillars to put in and use the original factory metal. As far as I'm concerned, this is certainly the way to go. I will be bedding the contact points on the action when I get home. I also noticed that the trigger was very heavy compared to my centerfire Savages. I took the trigger apart and clipped a few coils off the spring. The lowest setting is now 14 ounces and I still have the option of raising it. The trigger feels very good now at this lighter setting.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Had mine out today at the range. Great conditions with no wind made it for a boringly accurate day out to 200. Consistently busting clays and rolling the little spinner targets! These rifles are a blast!!! At the end of the day mine stopped ejecting spent rounds. When I got home and cleaned the inside of the chamber where the ejector lugs engage the round it is no wonder why. It was dirty as hell. I suspect that will take care of the problem.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Can't add much that hasn't been already. I have DIP bottom metal, EGW 20 MOA mount and the rifle basix trigger in mine. I don't know if I'll ever get around to bedding the action since it puts Wolf Match in a nickel at 50 yards and holds 1&quot; 5 shot groups at 100 yards. I still have to get it out to 200.

    For quiet rounds, CCI Subsonic longs are it. But after 40 yards they seem fairly inconsistant for drop and accuracy fades. Eley Subsonic Match (40 grain hollow points) are slightly louder but shoots as well as the Wolf Match out to 50 yards. I haven't shot it past 50 with that round yet.

    Next up, I may try a GAP Krylon job. I'm running a 6.5-20x40 Vortex Viper on it right now.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I'd recommend stocking up on extractor springs. My mkII used to go through them like candy.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Again thank you all for the info!

    Linkless that's really tempting to take a coil or two off being that it would still be adjustable to a higher weight. I'd love if mine broke at 13 ounces as the lowest setting is a bit heavy for my taste as well. I was eyeing the spring up when I adjusted mine but didn't know if anyone had any success with lightening it. How much is a few coils &amp; which did you cut, top or bottom? Then I'm assuming bend back to orignal style. Thanks!

    ***Edit 1
    My curiousity got the best of me and I went for it, found that most people were removing roughly 1.5 coils so I did the same. Trigger pull is still not as light as I'd like and still has some creep but it feels like an improvement so it was well worth the effort.

    ***Edit 2
    Well I couldn't help but pull it back apart and take some more off. Took a total of roughly 3 full coils off and didn't bother bending the end to match the allignment hole, the spring sits nicely in place as it is. The creep is gone, the trigger breaks so perfectly now and at about as light as I feel it can safely go. My small scale is reading right around 12-13oz. Very very happy with the results &amp; can't wait to try it out!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    You can only cut the bottom since the top necks down to a smaller diameter and threads into the trigger. I didn't bother bending it back to how it was as it seemed like to much trouble and I'd think it will stay put as is. That being said, if I do make adjustments it will be with the action out so that I can verify it doesn't do anything. I'm also looking at epoxying a small stub in the hole it pokes into to keep it centered. Unfortunately I'm away on travel to work for the next three weeks, when I return I plan to crank it down and see what my full adjustment range is....though I'm certain it will be staying at the 13 ounces.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Thank you for the info Linkless, my trigger came out perfect!

    Today I decdided to work on my sunshade a bit. The one that came with my scope was 3&quot; long and didn't look right to me. Went for a happy medium of functionality vs. aesthetics &amp; took 1.5&quot; off, here are the results!




    More to follow.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Updated Pics!








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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    My Mark 2 FV really likes CCI Mini mags. We tried Federal red box, blue box, CCI mini mags, and CCI Standard velocity. The mini mags were the best of the group and had the least drop. The Federal blue box &quot;champions&quot; were terrible. I know wolf is the standard, but they are so darn expensive and I cant buy them where I live. So if you want cheap and good, try the mini mags, I bet you will be pleased with the results. I'm getting .6&quot; at 50 yards 5 shot group. One thing I haven noticed about mine is the bolt has REALLY loosened up after about 500 rounds.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    CCI Standard Velocity in hand &amp; Wolf Match Target ammunition on the way! Also waiting on the DIP bottom metal to become available.

    I'm going to take Brett's advice &amp; try the sorted CCI SV with hopes of it shooting well enough to use on a regular basis. Jeremy I feel that the supersonic mini-mags are a bit hot for the accuracy I'm looking for at 100+ yards. I tried them &amp; my results weren't good. From what I've read I should be using subsonics after roughly 60 yards.

    I'll soon be testing the accuracy of my sorted CCI SV vs. Wolf MT.

    Info from my 500rd box of CCI SV (40g 1070fps)
    <span style="text-decoration: underline">Rim Thickness:</span>
    0.0425&quot; - 0.0434&quot; 082 rds (16.4%)
    0.0435&quot; - 0.0444&quot; 179 rds (35.8%)
    0.0445&quot; - 0.0454&quot; 171 rds (34.2%)
    0.0455&quot; - 0.0464&quot; 068 rds (13.6%)

    My caliper rig to measure the rim thickness using .223 brass. I didn't sort the ammo by weight because I don't have a scale that is precise enough.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryanmc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    Any advice &amp; tips are much appreciated! I look forward to seeing what you guys have to say - Thanks

    </div></div>
    I picked up one of these in 17HMR this past Spring to shoot Varmints, I put my 6.5-20 EFR Leupold scope on it and was not real happy with the accuracy of it. After taking it out of the stock, I could see that the cross pin that holds the barrel on was making an indention on the stock. A few minutes with a Dremel to inlet it a little and it is now shooting up to my expectations. It is something to look at if anyone is having accuracy issues.
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Got a chance to shoot some of the sorted CCI SV ammo. This ammo shot quite well at 100yds considering half the shooting was with some rain. I don't recall seeing any 5 shot groups larger than 1&quot; after I sighted it in. I was able to punish a 1.5&quot; diameter dinger with zero effort. Can't wait to try the Wolf MT when it arrives!

    DIP bottom metal arrived today!

    Very nice fit and finish. Comes with replacement bolts for $29.67 shipped. ***I ended up using my oem bolts for now although you'll need the longer ones if you glass bed the action later on. In-lb torque wrench is on the way for action screw torque tuning.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I will finally be getting home from a work trip this weekend and will be trying the TR out with the lighter trigger and the pillars. If it works well I'll leave it as is otherwise it will be bedded immediately.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryanmc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a chance to shoot some of the sorted CCI SV ammo. This ammo shot quite well at 100yds considering half the shooting was with some rain. I don't recall seeing any 5 shot groups larger than 1&quot; after I sighted it in. I was able to punish a 1.5&quot; diameter dinger with zero effort. Can't wait to try the Wolf MT when it arrives!

    DIP bottom metal arrived today!
    http://i54.tinypic.com/2dwg8pg.jpg
    Very nice fit and finish. Comes with replacement bolts for $29.67 shipped. ***I ended up using my oem bolts. In-lb torque wrench is on the way for action screw torque tuning. </div></div>

    lucky! my bottom metal is on backorder!!!

    what are the torque specs you used on the bolts?

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Linkless you're going to love your new trigger setup, the lightened trigger feels awesome!

    Mgcook I haven't had a chance to torque my bottom metal yet, I just lightly snugged them until the torque wrench arrives. I'll be setting my front to 20 in-lbs then dialing in the rear until I reach the best accuracy.

    Wolf MT arrived today so I got to try some out! Here's my best 5 round group from 100yds laying in a field, dime &amp; 1&quot; squares for size reference. No wrench yet to tune the torque on the action screws yet but hopefully that'll cure the flyers &amp; tighten up my other groups.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Hey, if you dont mind, would you be able to tell me where the stock ends on the barrel? In other words measured from the bolt face, how far does the stock protrude from there?

    Just curious how close to the end it would be on a 16&quot; bbl

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I measured mine at 11.5&quot; from bolt face to end of stock.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Oh, no problem then, couldnt figure out why Boyds says the longer forearm works with 18-20&quot; bbls on their site. The pictures on Savages website make the boyds and standard tupperware stock look like the same length.

    Thanks

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Verdict is in, everyone needs to lighten the trigger. It was so much more enjoyable to shoot I couldn't believe it. I didn't get to shoot any paper today but from the way I was hitting the steel it seems like it's doing quite well with some inexpensive Winchester ammunition (in a silver box). I was also able to stretch it past 100 yards today. The chicken silhouettes at 200 yards were quite easy to hit just using holdover. The Pigs at 300 were a bit more difficult so I dialed the scope for them (not sure how much adjustment is left but it got to 300 easy enough). Then onto the turkeys at 400, same holdover with the 300 yard zero as the 300 was with the 100 yard zero. Then came the 500 meter gong. I'm told it's around 30&quot; diameter or so, but not sure. I had to pick a dark bush well above it AND holdover a bunch to get the elevation correct. It wasn't pretty but I did manage to record hits probably around 20% of the time.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    That's impressive, I agree the lightened trigger is much much more enjoyable to shoot!

    Torque wrench is still on it's way. First one I received was defective. Hopefully I'll get it soon to start testing to get the action torqued to it's sweet spot!

    May as well post a pic of my savage with some of my other favorites after cleaning [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I can't help but join in and everyone likes pics right?

    After getting the DIP bottom metal, installing a rifle basix trigger and giving it a Krylon GAP job, this thing flat out shoots. I've settled on Wolf MT and as you can see it likes it just fine.

    GAP Job:


    5 on 5 at 100 yards. I notice that this rifle does like to be loaded. I always shoot it off the bipods and it likes forward pressure. The bottom 2 groups I was lightening up and you can see the difference.


    20 shots at 100 yards:


    It will also place 10 shots in 3&quot; groups at 200 yards with a 20 MOA 'Up' adjustment from a 50 yard zero.

    I'm happy with it.

    Edit: It likes 20 in/lbs on both action screws.


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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    BBsteel thanks for the input, lookin good! Just curious, have you tested the action screw torque from 20 in-lb F/20-50 in-lb R? I've read a few claiming to find the best group precision with settings around 20F/45R. Also is your action bedded? My torque wrench is still on it's way but when it arrives I'll be able to torque my scope rings/mounts properly then start testing action torque. Thanks!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Spent some time at the range today! Got my first fly kill &amp; 50 yds haha.

    Experimented with my action torque settings although wind prevented me from getting the testing I wanted. 40F/20R (in-lbs) seemed to make the best grouping from what I've tested so far. More to come!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Tag! I just got one of the Savage Mark II FV-SR's. Threaded 16&quot;.

    I really want a new stock and I'd like to get a tacticool stock. Do you guys know if the Boyds stock is made of a harder wood than the Mark II TR's stock?

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Boyd's is who makes the stock.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Really? it looks a bit different than the Tacticool stock. Does anyone know if the Tacticool is a laminate stock?

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    TR's stock is a tacticool without the 'raised' comb in the picture you see on Boyd's website. They are all laminate, and very weak, especially in the inletting area.
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Terror were you the guy who put pillars and a crossbolt in his?

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    No sir I was not.
    I like purple way too much...
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Last night I clipped some coils off my accutrigger spring and stoned/polished the sear surfaces and now the trigger is crazy light. It feels really good now.

    One thing I noticed was that pictures of other people's Mark II accutriggers had way less coils than mine. I'm thinking that savage added more coils for some reason or another.

    I still need to live fire it in order to make sure it's functioning properly.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    i am getting 3-5&quot; groups at 100 has anyone tried glass bedding i would like to know if this has a significant impact
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I forgot to post this, picked up a Savage MkII FV-SR since I wanted the threaded barrel and it was easier than threading the TR. I noticed the trigger was much lighter than the TR though the springs didn't look all that different. I clipped a coil off anyways and went ahead and bedded it in my TR stock. I hope to take it out this weekend with a SS 16x on top.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Something else you may want to consider is polishing the bolt. There are detailed instructions on a sticky (Savage 93 bolt disassembly) on RC forum under Savage. I don't know how much it made a difference as far as accuracy (about an inch at 100 probably me not the gun) but it made a huge difference on how smooth the bolt works. I was amazed how big some of the burrs were on the machined and stamped parts inside the bolt. The bolt really operates smooth now.

    When I first got mine after taking it apart and cleaning it I could only tighten the bottom metal finger tight otherwise the stock would make a creaking sound and the metal disfigured with only 12 in. lbs. of torque. It didn't take long for it to loosen up so I got my heavy bottom metal from Savagegunsmithing.com and it dropped in perfectly torqued to 20 in. lbs. and it made a huge difference.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I just got my DIP bottom metal and trigger guard. Now I'm patiently waiting for the Tacticool stock from boyds. (backordered)

    One thing that's cool, but I probably won't use is the set screw trigger stop on the trigger guard. Wasn't shown on the website, so it must be a new addition.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryanmc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BBsteel thanks for the input, lookin good! Just curious, have you tested the action screw torque from 20 in-lb F/20-50 in-lb R? I've read a few claiming to find the best group precision with settings around 20F/45R. Also is your action bedded? My torque wrench is still on it's way but when it arrives I'll be able to torque my scope rings/mounts properly then start testing action torque. Thanks! </div></div>

    Sorry for the delay. I've only shot mine at 20 in/lbs per action screw. It worked so I left it. My action is not bedded either. I may do so though but not until spring.

    For you guys with poor accuracy...get the DIP bottom metal so you can apply proper torque and allow the gun to maintain it. It's only $20!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Well I changed to a different budget scope. Action torque 20F/20R, nice calm day to try it out!

    Results:

    Best 5 shot group of my afternoon, 100 yds, laying in a field. (Small circle was to help me aim small)



    Will update soon with more testing, better pics, &amp; maybe tighter groups!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    I have bedded mine and it did cut my group. I also found some metal tubes at Ace hardware and made pillars for it.
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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    Where are you guys finding the DIP bottom metal in stock for the MKII???

    Also, I'm firing the Aguila SS 60 grainers with good results and they seem to be stable out to at least 100m for suppressor work. Bottom pic is a 100m target with the 60 grain SS. Little bird was the intended foe.

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    When I got my DIP bottom metal I ordered from their website, I'm unsure if you'll be able to purchase it elsewhere. I waited a few weeks until they had them in stock to order.

    Another option may be savagegunsmithing.com, I believe they carry the bottom metal as well. Good luck!

    Your picture makes me want to thread mine &amp; get a can! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img]

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    More recent pic:


    Really pleased with the new glass. Scope is a budget Osprey International 10-40X50 with 1/8&quot; adj, side turret AO, &amp; R/G IR. Shown with optional sunshade (I cut one down to 1.5&quot; as shown, have a spare 3&quot Fine reticle, very clear through 36X or so, still great at 40X just not crystal clear. A friend of mine has been using two of the same on a .223 and .308 rifle and is also very pleased with them.

    What impressed me the most was a few weekends ago female friend of mine who had never fired a bolt rifle, (let alone many firearms at all) put 5 for 5 on my 3&quot; dinger at 100yds in some decent wind.

    I intend on finding the limits of this rifle.

    More to come!

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    Re: Savage MKII TR - Fine tuning advice & tips needed

    What scope is that?
    "Everyday is a good day, some just better than others."

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