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Thread: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

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    Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    All,

    I'm looking at picking up some new glass. I like the reticles in both of these as well as the exterior design. Both are from well known companies. The Kahles has some excellent reviews, but the Steiner has very few reviews at all. Anyone gotten a chance to compare them in terms of build/glass?


    Thanks,

    db

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Don't forget the 1k price difference. That would make it an easy decision for me, regardless of reviews.

    EDIT: All apologies, I was pricing the wrong scope. Wishful thinking I suppose . . .


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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    ***edited after I shot with a production model vs a pre-production of the Steiner.*****

    It' really a toss up. I find that both are comparable in terms of optical quality.

    What I would say would be the determining factor would be what reticle selection would work the best for you.

    In the kahles I like the Mil4, while in the Steiner I like the MSR (although the g2 mil dot is a workable option too)

    Both scopes have different features, but they both effectively give an viable option to the SB.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    I'd get the Kahles and not look back. I had a hunting scope with the TDS reticle that I sold to my parents for a song and a dance - regret that. Kahles makes high quality stuff. Besides, I've bought a ton of stuff from Chris and if he recommends it I would seriously consider it.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Originally Posted By: Chris@SportOptics

    I find the edge to edge clarity better, the clicks of the turret feel better, I like the profile better, and the field of view. The g2 mildot is the reticle of choice for that scope. Entire working surface illuminates on the reticle.

    Steiner Germany is not "Steiner" btw but yes they make good scopes.


    -About edge clarity, Steiner has larger FOV in lower magnifications. Didnt calculate top end, difference doesent seem to be too big there. Steiner does not tunnelize. No experience about Kahles.
    -Big boys said that Steiner clicks will get upgrade very soon
    -Another reticle alternative for Steiner is MSR

    Originally Posted By: Chris@SportOptics

    I think that it really comes down to the features you are looking for, ie reticle, illumination system etc.

    +1

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Sounds like Steiner may have dropped the ball on the 5-25 or Chris has a bad one. My 4-16 is every bit the equal to a S&B directly compared, that including glass and all around build. My knobs don't have any slop in them what so ever. Either way Kahles will have the better glass.

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Steiner hands down. I have the 5-25 on my rifle and love it. It's been more reliable and optically superior. I sent my kahles back in November for a erector issue, they sent it back a month later more messed up then it was to begin with. Sent it back again on 12/6 and still haven't got a call from Ken saying it's on its way back to me. 3k for a scope that I've owned for 4 months but only used for one is a joke. Buy the Steiner and never look back.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Perhaps it got caught up in the Holiday stuff
    Have you spoke with him this week?
    Perhaps they shut down for Chriistmas...
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    I just received a FB message from Ken on the 7th. It's still in Austria as Kahles was closed from 12/16-1/6, but it should be on it's way back shortly. I'll take that with a grain of salt because the first time I sent my scope back, it took well over a month.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Hey quackhead. I have never had better customer service than Ken at Kahles.
    I have had S&B's, USO's etc, #1 in my book is the kahles k624i. Performance, clarity, unique and well thought out scope that kicks the snot out of the big boys. IMO.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    I like the parallax under the elevation turret

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    on the the kahles k624i :-)

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Originally Posted By: Foweis
    Hey quackhead. I have never had better customer service than Ken at Kahles.
    I have had S&B's, USO's etc, #1 in my book is the kahles k624i. Performance, clarity, unique and well thought out scope that kicks the snot out of the big boys. IMO.


    Have you ever sent your scope in for warranty work? If you have what was your turnaround time?
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Checked put the Steiner scopes today and they are sweet scopes. Will check out the Kahles this week. I'm sure the Kahles is a great piece of glass (they always have been), but we picked up Steiner for starters.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Originally Posted By: Foweis
    Hey quackhead. I have never had better customer service than Ken at Kahles.
    I have had S&B's, USO's etc, #1 in my book is the kahles k624i. Performance, clarity, unique and well thought out scope that kicks the snot out of the big boys. IMO.


    Really? You've had better service from Kahles than the 4 day turnaround (door to door) I got on my S&B the week before Christmas?

    Somehow I doubt that.

    Joe

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    I've also had outstanding service from S&B. No scope trouble in my case, just a cleaning and health check for a scope I was selling. Great communications from all involved, especially Jerry.

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Checked out the Kahles today and all I can say is "wow". The 6-24i is a wonderfully optimized optic, they did some nice tweaks on the MSR reticle, the glass is outstanding, there is nothing to not like.

    Unfortunately, discounts off of MAP are impossible to come by so you are stuck paying the $3000+ for the scope. Still, given the other options out there in the "super premium" category, it is a fine choice. Turnaround time on serious repairs might be an issue but you are in good hands with Ken.

    We will offer both scopes this year, and both will be an excellent option

    Scott
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics
    The 6-24i is a wonderfully optimized optic, they did some nice tweaks on the MSR reticle


    Scott, care to elaborate on the changes they made to the MSR?

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Originally Posted By: Flyingbullseye
    Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics
    The 6-24i is a wonderfully optimized optic, they did some nice tweaks on the MSR reticle


    Scott, care to elaborate on the changes they made to the MSR?





    It's a tad thinner than the sb and the Steiner from what I remember. With an open center.

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    They erased the crosshair and added a fine floating dot.
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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Hmm trying to decide between Steiner or kahles

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Jedi,

    No experience with the Steiner, but have heard mostly positive comments on the scope. Currently have a Kahles 624i and plan on purchasing another in the near future. Absolutely love the 624i and feel like it's an excellent value when looking at S&B PMII series w/o paying an extra $500-600. I sold my last PMII and have no regrets. Good luck on your new purchase.

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    Being a leftie i like the idea of parallax adjustment being on top ala Kahles
    Not seen MSR reticle on Kahles yet or is that a new release?
    all i,m finding is MIL4 & MIL6 no MSR type reticle

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    Re: Steiner 5-25 vs. Kahles 624i

    MSR was released at SHOT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@SportOptics View Post
    It's a tad thinner than the sb and the Steiner from what I remember. With an open center.
    MSR hair line = 0.05mrad
    MSR/K hair line = 0.04mrad

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    I don't have any experience with the Kahles but I do own a Steiner 5-25. I can't say which is better, but I can say the Steiner is a very impressive scope. Glass is outstanding (way better than my Nightforce scopes), turrets feel just right... not too stiff but not mushy either. I love the illumination features. It tracks dead on and is built like a tank. If you need repairs, they have a service center in Colorado and although I have not needed service, I have heard their service is excellent. They have a lifetime warrantee.

    After doing some shopping, I was able to get the Steiner for about $400 less than the Kahles. That was what made up my mind for me since pretty much everything else from a quality and technology point of view seemed to be a toss-up.

    I have heard great things about Kahles and I'm sure I would have been very happy with that piece as well. Either way, you won't be making a mistake.

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    Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. These are the exact two scopes I'm torn between.
    Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor. Rangers lead the way!

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    This thread just doesn't die! lol

    In all seriousness though, it doesn't surprise me. These are both top tier scopes from 2 very respected brands. Both have info out on them, but they're still so new (to us) that there's no side-by-side scientific comparison. I still can't wait for Ilya's next scope review installment!

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    After seeing both as MSR versions, its more or less like choosing between Mercedes AMG and BMW M.
    Both are optically "good enough", so it comes down to personal preferences IMO.

    To me it seems that biggest difference dividing opinions will be reticle. Kahles MSR has separate center dot- some like, some dont. Same goes with Steiner simple solid center cross- although I would imagine that majority of 2-way range shooters might prefer it.

    Steiner MSR main hair line is tad thicker. Better visibility especially in heavy mirage or with lowest magnifications, but some will appreciate "lighter feel" on Kahles version. Kahles also stops ar 6x so thinner line practical visibility is still reasonably good.

    My bet is that debate will continue forever..

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    I bought my Steiner through Scott at Liberty Optics. I could not be more thrilled with the scope. It tracks perfectly, the glass is incredibly clear, the illumination has tons of settings for use with night vision all the way through to broad daylight, and I can think of nothing it lacks. When you factor all that in with Scott's price, I can't really think of a better option.

    The parallax adjustment underneath the elevation knob is awesome on the Kahles though.

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    I also bought the Steiner with the MSR from Scott a few weeks back. Amazing scope at an amazing price. The illumination knob has off positions in between all 11 settings, second rotation indicator from 14 mils to 15 mils is freakin sweet, even came with BC flip up caps. All around an incredible piece, I'd choose it again in a heartbeat...

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    how do the elevation clicks compare on the Steiner and Kahles to those on the premier

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    From what I remember (between Kahles and current Steiner) practical turret feedback pretty much same.
    Both pass thick mitten/dark room test.

    Dont remember though how much clicks Kahles has in single revolution. If turret dia is same but different amount of clicks, mechanical movement must always be different as therefore practical "feel".

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    Kahles has 14 mil 140 clicks per revolution.

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    Steiner Germany is not "Steiner" btw but yes they make good scopes.




    There is only one Steiner. Steiner/Steiner Germany is one in the same. They have teamed with Burris in Colorado and some of the production and all of the US customer service is in Colorado.
    Last edited by Quickdraw40; 03-21-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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    Don't want to hijack the thread but......Beretta Holdings, through its Burris division, acquired Germany’s Steiner-Optik GmbH in 2006 (pretty sure on the date but not positive). I think that's when it became "Steiner Germany". I think that's what JL was referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickdraw40 View Post
    There is only one Steiner. Steiner/Steiner Germany is one in the same. They have teamed with Burris in Colorado and some of the production and all of the US customer service is in Colorado.
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    What reticles are offered in the Steiner?

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    Gen II Mildot and MSR
    Quote Originally Posted by bribri View Post
    What reticles are offered in the Steiner?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@SportOptics View Post
    Originally Posted By: Flyingbullseye
    Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics
    The 6-24i is a wonderfully optimized optic, they did some nice tweaks on the MSR reticle



    Scott, care to elaborate on the changes they made to the MSR?






    It's a tad thinner than the sb and the Steiner from what I remember. With an open center.

    Chris,
    Next time you come to K&M will you bring this scope with this reticle? I would really like to see it live.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Chris,
    Next time you come to K&M will you bring this scope with this reticle? I would really like to see it live.

    Thanks
    Sure thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quickdraw40 View Post
    There is only one Steiner. Steiner/Steiner Germany is one in the same. They have teamed with Burris in Colorado and some of the production and all of the US customer service is in Colorado.
    I did not comment anything about Steiner/Steiner Germany as I have no idea about it. quote is wrong.
    It was in my post #5 alright but as quote from another post in this same topic.
    Last edited by JL; 03-21-2013 at 08:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Chris,
    Next time you come to K&M will you bring this scope with this reticle? I would really like to see it live.

    Thanks
    Me too! Let me know when you are hearing back, I want to see this!
    Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor. Rangers lead the way!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rthur View Post
    Kahles has 14 mil 140 clicks per revolution.
    Can someone confirm this? I was told the Kahles had 26 mil total elevation not 28.
    I can't find the specs anywhere

    Best regards,
    Nico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssg08 View Post
    Can someone confirm this? I was told the Kahles had 26 mil total elevation not 28.
    I can't find the specs anywhere

    Best regards,
    Nico.
    Mine has ~26 mils total elevation or 260 total clicks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quickdraw40 View Post
    There is only one Steiner. Steiner/Steiner Germany is one in the same. They have teamed with Burris in Colorado and some of the production and all of the US customer service is in Colorado.
    How much of the steiner stuff is made here? OP sorry for the sidetrack.
    Breeze

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbreeze View Post
    How much of the steiner stuff is made here? OP sorry for the sidetrack.
    Breeze

    My understanding is that the 4x erector line (3-12 and 4-16) are made here, the 5x erector series and the 1-4/1-5's are still made in Germany.
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    I've been shooting NF since I started around here, and very satisfied. I got a chance to get my hands on a 4-16 Steiner, and I have VERY impressed. I am now seriously coveting a 5-25 Steiner, badly.
    Best,

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    Thought I'd dig up this thread quickly as I am considering both of these scopes. For those that own either scope, what is the general feedback on eye relief, particularly at higher magnifications?

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    richmond, ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWilson View Post
    Thought I'd dig up this thread quickly as I am considering both of these scopes. For those that own either scope, what is the general feedback on eye relief, particularly at higher magnifications?
    I have the Steiner5-25 and the eye relief is good for heavy recoil and only slightly more sensitive at higher magnification. Eye alignment could be problematic without a solid cheek weld but has only been a problem for others shooting my rifle and is properly set up for me though I don't find it better or worse than any other scope at top end mag.

    John

  50. #50
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    Since I'm the OP, I should probably chime in eh? Since posting this thread, I have yet to purchase either one. I actually picked up a G2DMR. Anyways, I still plan on picking up one of these, but I'm waiting on a few things. I waiting to see the final version of the DTA reticle in the Kahles and to see whether there will be another "buy a steiner 5-25 get free binos!" deal. From everything I see, it's really hard to go wrong with either choice. I do wish Kahles would go to a 5x setup though.

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