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Thread: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

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    Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Hi, I purchased a used GAP crusader for myself at Xmas and it came with some BH's 175 match ammo. The BH shot very well and I'd like to reproduce and tweak it abit to see if a little more accuracy can be found. I'm sure the bullet is a Sierra and the Brass is high quality so what I'm interested in the type of powder and primer BH is using and any specail handling that BH might do to build thier ammo. I already have a pet load or two for a LTR and my Sendero but am always searching for the better load and components with an eye on price as well. Donald
    "So there I was, inverted, low on fuel, one engine out the other one on fire, pulling so many G's I was in the H's"

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    42.0gr Tac
    CCI BR2 primers

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Thanks Kevin,
    I've got the primers. I'll have to buy some powder but it is only $15.oo a pound around here. Donald
    "So there I was, inverted, low on fuel, one engine out the other one on fire, pulling so many G's I was in the H's"

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    BTW - Black Hills uses Winchester brass.... I bought a case of the BH's and have been using the same brass fired from the same rifle for quite awhile now....
    Bill C. Sgt. USMC Ret.(81-89/03-04)-One call gets all! "I have yet to master the art of teaching the man who refuses to listen" R.D. -Ignorance is Cureable,Stupidity is Forever! UNK. 9/11 Never Forget! RIP RM & TH (NYFD) my friends among the many Heroes.

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Bill,

    I just ran through 1 box each of BH 168 and 175 grain match ammo. Accuracy of the 168s was on a par with other 168 gr ammo and my reloads but the 175 was not as good.

    I found three of the 40 cases to be cracked at the necks after tumbling them clean. These were boxes of supposedly "new" ammo, in crisp, unopened boxes, at a recent gun show, but I have to think something is fishy as I typically do not find cracks in cases until many cycles later than the first firing.

    I am surprised to find they are Winchester cases. Any chance these were a bad lot? Or just repackaged handloads in well cared for boxes?!
    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.


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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    QQ: I think you were had, or it was very old ammunition. All of the Black Hills ammo I've seen for several years had cases with a Black Hills headstamp. The cases are indeed made by Winchester, but Black Hills buys so much that they have their own headstamp on them.
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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Lindy,

    Quote:
    I am surprised to find they are Winchester cases


    That should have said Surprised to find they are made by Winchester.


    I think perhaps there is trickery too, but keep in mind this brass is headstamped BHA MATCH .308 WIN. The heads also look pretty crisp as well.

    Had they not been bought at a gun show I would feel pretty safe concluding they were an unusually brittle lot. I resized the other 37 cases and the were stiffer than the once fired winchester cases I also resized that afternoon.

    I'm not skilled enough to look at a rim and say how many times it has been extracted, or tell from the head stamp it has been fired more than once unless there is ejector swipe or obvious engraving. These look pretty good.

    I'll try to post photos.

    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.


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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    OK. Well, BH has been using cases by Winchester for years. I've shot several thousand rounds of them, without any case problems.
    "The price of reclusion in the beauty of nature is poverty and namelessness. Or, perhaps, the price is itself the reward."
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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Originally Posted By: Lindy
    OK. Well, BH has been using cases by Winchester for years. I've shot several thousand rounds of them, without any case problems.


    Ditto here.

    I have been shooting BH 175s for 2+ years now, over 3,000 rounds, no troubles with brass or any other component.

    It shoots so well in my Crusader that I use it in matches.

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    I was looking forward to recycling those cases many times, being the "Green Machine" I am these days!

    I'll keep my eyes open for an honest to God retailer and buy some more. This was the first time I had tried BH ammo and the price was right...At the time of purchase!

    I'll see how many reload cycles I get out of these. That should tell a story of their age.
    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.


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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    queequeg, I bet your cases are old and had turned brittle. I shot a box of LC 118 LR to compare to the BH's and had several cracked necks myself. This was '92 dated ammo that I purchased from the CMP new in the can. I've shot several thousand of these before and had never had a problem. When I went to rework them I to found them to be harder than I remember and that's when I found the necks on two out of one box had cracked. I'm going to have the neck annealed before I do anything else to these. Donald
    "So there I was, inverted, low on fuel, one engine out the other one on fire, pulling so many G's I was in the H's"

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    I probably should have done that too! Too late: they are now re-loaded and ready for exciting paper punching!
    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.


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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    A big thanks to Kevin for the load info. I just finished this week the first pound of TAC. I Started with the 42.0 Grains as mentioned and worked from there. My GAP Crusader likes the 168 and 175 SMK each as well as the other. Also, 165 Amax was great. Berger 175's VLD's did not do as well; but the VLD is length sensitive so I'll play with seating depth before I through in the towel on them. The loads:

    42.0 Of Tac and 175 SMK and 42.5 of TAC and 168 SMK's where all less than 1 MOA for Four Five shot groups at 100 with each projectile. A couple groups were as small as 3/8" most were closer 3/4". Point of aim was the same for 100, 200, and 300 yrds for both and the 168's were just 1/2 minute higher than the 175's at 400yrds. Windage was same at all. I tried 42.0, 42.5 and 43.0 with both the 175 and 168's. The 42.0 showed the most promise for the 175's and the 42.5 was the best in the 168's in my rifle.

    The 165's also did well within 1 MOA with two 3/8 inch groups at 100. I loaded 42.0, 42.5, and 43.0 grains of TAC and could not see an advantage as far as group size but did see a slight change on point of impact. 42.5 grouped about 1/2 minute to left of 42.0 and 43.0 about 1/2 minute high of 42.5. So it would appear the groups were moving counter clock wise with an increase in speed. This might just be interesting to me.

    The Berger 175's would group in two clusters each to one side of each other. I would get a couple bullets touching about 1" apart in each five shot string. I'm thinking seating depth or maybe neck tension. I did use fired brass in all loads so I'll have a look at the cases tomorrow to see if I missed something.

    25.3 Of TAC behind a 69 grain Lapua in a 223 case does well in a 700 PSS also. I had enough powder to load just 8 cases after loading all the 308.

    Thanks again for all that gave input. Donald
    "So there I was, inverted, low on fuel, one engine out the other one on fire, pulling so many G's I was in the H's"

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Just rememeber that BHA uses a powder blended for their use, and is a non canister grade of powder. Ergo, you can not buy the exact powder. TAC is a close cousin, but not the same powder.
    John
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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    That might be so; but TAC worked like a charm for my 308 Crusader. And it's cheaper than Varget or any VV powders around me in this area. So, I'll be buying more and playing with it alot I think. Thanks though for the warning, your correct to advise caution and several loads at 43.0 in Federal brass showed signs of pressure in the brass. This was at 55 deg. today so I don't think I would load any at that charge for a summer day here in South Carolina in Federal Brass for sure. LC and Lapua did just fine though. For those the want to know the Federals had stiff bolt lift and the case heads showed bolt swipe.
    "So there I was, inverted, low on fuel, one engine out the other one on fire, pulling so many G's I was in the H's"

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    I'll tell ya - that BHA ammo is only a SKOSH, TINY TINY bit slower than a 45.0 gr Varget w/Fed 210M in a BHA case...

    All that in a factory stick, your mileage may vary.

    Just happens to be damn close to M118LR.

    I believe 118LR and my load are SLIGHTLY faster but NO more than 100fps - and my load an 118LR are EXACT......I know, I Chrono'd 118LR to get my load data.
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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Originally Posted By: queequeg
    Bill,

    I just ran through 1 box each of BH 168 and 175 grain match ammo. Accuracy of the 168s was on a par with other 168 gr ammo and my reloads but the 175 was not as good.

    I found three of the 40 cases to be cracked at the necks after tumbling them clean. These were boxes of supposedly "new" ammo, in crisp, unopened boxes, at a recent gun show, but I have to think something is fishy as I typically do not find cracks in cases until many cycles later than the first firing.

    I am surprised to find they are Winchester cases. Any chance these were a bad lot? Or just repackaged handloads in well cared for boxes?!



    Learned years ago never to trust ammunition from a gun show - A) someone's trying to make money on you above and beyond the MFG's price, and B) it's PROBABLY hand loads.

    My BHA brass has gone 7 firings now, I've lost one where the case separated at the base b/c I full length resize when I size..

    I have 640 BHA cases, every one of them says BHA Match and they are winchester match brass but they seem ever so slightly thicker - have had a few bad runs with winchester match brass where they would not hold a bullet...


    "And yes, I've gone where no man has gone before, but I was in Mexico and her father gave me permission! My name is William Shatner, and I am Canadian!" - William Shatner

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Don't BH make a line of remanufactured ammo. Could be someone was trying to pass off reloads as new stuff. I tried the 175 VLD's again today. Still did not do as well as the 168 I loaded this time with Varget. A supprise was that at 100 and 200 the old style GI 173 match bullets shot well under an MOA. I only loaded fifteen and did not have enough to shoot for groups pass 200. I've got two cans of like 3200 projectiles from years ago that never have been all that good. I think I got these cheap because they were a rejected lot. They run 174.0 to 175.5 so far as I only weighed about fifty. The ones I shot today were 175.1 to 175.5. Got to go, I've got three rifles to clean. Donald
    "So there I was, inverted, low on fuel, one engine out the other one on fire, pulling so many G's I was in the H's"

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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    What works in BHA brass is not a load to use in Federal Brass! A prescription for a big problem!
    I have never seen Reman "Blue Box" 308 ammo from BHA. I have seen "seconds" in white boxes, but that was 223....

    BHA 175gr loading is 175gr SMK and the 168 is Hornady bullet
    John
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    Re: Load Data for Black Hill 308 win.175gn. Match ammo

    Just to be clear, since I'm new to the whole reloading thing, is this TAC the Ramshot TAC or is this some other TAC? I have been shooting Black Hills 175g for a while though, at least until it up and disappeared, so reproducing it sounds like a good idea to me.

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