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Thread: 30 cal sabots

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    30 cal sabots

    Has anybody used 30 cal sabots to reload 22 cal bullets?
    I was curious as to barrel fouling,if it would affect the accuracy of my regular load. I really like the idea of a light bullet for small game w/o using a premium bullet.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I looked into this a couple of years ago. Never got to the point of doing the experiment.

    The issue I never got past was stability. Take a 22 cal 69 gr SMK suitable for 2750 fps from a 1:10 twist barrel; or the heavier 75 SMK that really wants a 1:9 barrel or slightly faster.

    Now put this in a 308 with a 1:12 typical twist barrel and launch at 3200-3300 fps. Do you have a fast enough twist barrel to stabilize these little bullets at those velocities? Greenhills formula says no. But who knows in actual practice???

    However, if one has a significanly faster twist 30 cal barrel, such as a 1:9, it looks eminently feasible; Stability wise--at least worth an experiment.

    If your twist rate ends up giving you adequate stability, the sabots might be interesting. I would not worry about the cleaning issues until you have determined that you have a stable load.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    There`s a good reason Remington yanked that factory loaded stuff from production a long time ago. Unless you like to scrub-a-dub to get that plastic fouling out of such a small bore size, have at it.

    There`s plenty of lightweight 30cal varmint bullets available that are not "premium" priced. Look at the 125gr choices for a start.

    HTH
    One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    Yeah and I heard people where being shot with them and couldn't be convicted because there was no bullte to lands marking. Sopranos!!!
    They say the pen is mighter than the sword, but to keep a dull sword could be suicide.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I have sabots to shoot 22 in 30 and to shoot 30 in 50.

    The 22 in 30 will shoot a 6" group with a 2" gun.

    I never tried it again.
    How did I make money?
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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    My rifle will shoot 2" with factory remington accelerators, which are still in production, but I'm more worried about the fouling. I have a 1 in 10 twist on my '06, so they should stabilize. Other sources have said that they won't stabilize until about 40 yards.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=220009
    I have about 35 rounds of the factory stuff. However after careful consideration I think that I"m ghoing to work up a 125 grain load, or maybe a 150 grain FMJ reduced load.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    don't discount the 110 V-Max either
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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    Be sure to scrub all the plastic out of the barrel after you shoot them. That's one of the reasons they aren't a real hot seller. I'm going to guess that's what they aren't listed in Remington's current catalog.
    Be careful,
    Victor
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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    Do you think that the fouling would affect my moly coated bullet accuracy?

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I think ANYTHING left in the barrel will affect the next shot fired. Whether it's grease, melted plastic or any other debris left in the barrel, it will have some kind of effect on the next shot.
    Be careful,
    Victor
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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I have some of each, and want to try this out. I can use 55 gr vmax, grey sabots, and varget in a .308 Win. What powder charge do you reccomend?

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    You may not be able to duplicate the performance of the factory Accelerators, because they use several proprietary components that are uniquely developed for this application, and which are not and never have been available commercially to handloaders.

    When Remington developed the round, they had to contract IMR to produce a powder which had a burn rate that was similar to a pistol/shotgun powder, but also had the higher density of a rifle powder. They had to use all of the case capacity of the .30-'06 case to contain the charge required to reach 4000fps. This propellent has never been made commercially available to handloaders, and no commercial propellent has both the burn rate and density required to duplicate its performance.

    The bullet may appear conventional, but it is not. Remington determined that the bullet core hardeness required was much harder than readily available commercial bullets. You would probably have to use some sort of Barnes-solid-like bullet to duplicate the required hardness. The conventional bullets would hold up, but only the harder bullets would hold the accuracy standard they wanted.

    Additionally, they discovered that conventional primers were too powerful. The coefficient of friction that the sabot provided was inadequate to contain the ignition pressure, and the charges would not ignite properly or consistently. They had to develop a special primer with a reduced charge, and neither this primer, nor any like it, have ever been made commecially available to handloaders.

    Any efforts to duplicate such performance are doomed from the start. It may or may not be safe to forge on and try to force the available components to deliver what they really can't do.

    Combine this with the fact that even the specially developed factory cartridges never really did deliver accuracy that should have appealed to their most likely market, varmint shooters, and you have a cartridge which is basically an answer in search of a question.

    This info comes directly from Cartridges of the World eighth edition, 1997, by McPherson, editing and adding to the work of Barnes.

    I'd beg off from this experiment.

    Greg
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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    Hankpac, NOT Varget. In fact IIRC back when I tried sabots it was suggested to use something like 700X. I never got the accuracy ... as in hitting the Broadside of a Barn INSIDE the Barn !! So got rid of them. I had tried 50, 55, 60(something) & even 75 gr Amax and I thought I was doing well to hit a 12" target sheet 1 out of 5X at 100 yds. This was over 10 years ago with a rifle that had proven it could keep 3/4 MOA at 100 & 300 yds using 168 SMK!!
    There are multiple problems with reloading sabot 1) getting projectile aligned in sabot, 2) not knocking projectile out of line when seating sabot & last uniformity of seating overall unit.

    Knock yourself out trying to do this. It will give you a decent excuse for consuming vast quantities of alcohol & explain hair loss in patches (that you have torn out) !!
    Have a good one,
    Will

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    DO NOT FIRE them in rifles with any form of muzzle device,(brake ,flash suppressor, etc) sabot can get stuck in the "device"..... they actually "bloom"? quite quickly. I remember reading that a long time ago, thought about loading some for my M1A.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    i found a box of just the accelerator bullets (55gr)at a gunshow a couple of shows back and loaded up 5 with the same load as my 168 smks's , it was a different sounding fire and it smelled like a 22 going off, that powder not burning fully smell and like some before me said, 2 of 5 hit the paper at 100 and they were way right (about 8"). i even crimped them thinking it would hold them in a little longer to burn the powder but alas no dice, i was gonna try mag primers but put the experiment on the back burner
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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I was using 55gr V-max in 308 with 46gr of Varget - Speed was 3700 fps and 4" group from 26" Sendero barrel, that hadn't been cleaned from 200 rounds of normal shooting.
    Intend to do some more development at some stage.
    The recoil I though was quite sharp and short for a small pill/

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I purchased some .30 to .22 caliber sabots from EA Brown and loaded them in a 300 Winchester Magnum. The accuracy was poor (3" to 6" groups at 100 yards) but the velocity was awesome. I used a 55 gr V-max because it's flat base seated well in the sabot. IMR3031 was the most accurate at 4700 fps and AA2230 was the fastest at just over 5000 fps for a very hot load. I have hit three sage rats with these rounds and pieces flew everywhere. Remember the sabot also leaves the barrel at the same velocity, a couple of them beat the crap out of my chrony. I think developing this load would get slightly better accuracy but it is really more for entertainment. I did not see any significant plastic residue in the barrel but I cleaned it thoroughly after shooting sabots. I wouldn't guess the residue would damage the barrel but no sense risking it. I agree with the 110gr V-max suggestion. My 300 Winchester shoots them very accurately with IMR4350 and while I have not used them on varmints yet my other V-max loads are devastating. Be safe and have fun.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    Range Update:
    Win 748 produces teo inch groups at 100 yards, also the point of impact is about 4" lower than my 150 grain load. The next step is to switch to magnum primers and move the point of impact to match.
    Remember that we aren't doing this for a regular load, when I get a load developed I will probably load twenty and be set for years. This simply keeps us from shooting a rabbit with a $1.50 plus round of ammunition.
    By the way, watch the crimp and use as much as you can w/o pulling up the pedals onthe sabot.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    tag

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    Had the same idea back about 10-12 years ago when i was just out of college. Thought shooting smaller bullets will be cheaper and could save money, just like you. But when you factor in the cost of additional load development, cost of the .22cal bullet, cost of the sabot, and loading materials you aren't really saving that much and then having marginal accuracy. Just load 110gr V-max, 125gr TNT. These will have spectacular termainal effects on a target.

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    Re: 30 cal sabots

    I load them in 308 an 300wm. As a target load they suck. For other things they are,... outstanding. With a triplex load of powder they will exceed the ability of a Chronny to keep up.
    The Brass after a triplex is not worth anything, but in some venues thats life. [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]
    Never use any muzzle device with sabots, some brands of gas checks, or timing buffers.
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