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Thread: powder densities

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    powder densities

    I would like to calculate the volume of certain weights of various powders. Is there a chart of powder densities?

    I am developing a load for a 6.5x47 (AR). H4350 seems very popular. I had IMR 4350 on hand, so I decided to use that to fire form the 100 pieces of new brass. 41gr seems to be a ball park load. I am finding that down to 40gr of IMR4350 is compressed, and I have a time getting consistent seating depths due to the compression. I would like to seat to 2.7-2.8 OAL. I concluded that the H4350 is denser than the I4350.

    I am about to complete the first round of firing with the new brass, and am looking at what is the best powder to develop a load with. Most of the posts in the Reloading Depot are using 123gr or 130gr bullets. I am using 142smk. Most are using longer barrels. I am using a 22” barrel.

    Would like to get >2800fps. Pushing a heavier bullet down a shorter barrel than most, I think I need a faster burning powder, and a denser powder to be able to get enough charge to get the desired velocity. The popular powder in 6.5 seems to be H4350, but I would like to try H414, or N540 to get the results I want. But don’t want to spend the time, if the desired powder charge is compressed at 2.7 OAL.

    Is there a powder density chart that I can use in conjunction with the burn rate chart, or a software app that can help me predict what powder does what, before I spend time, money and barrel life randomly picking powders based on internet posts?

    Thanks

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    Re: powder densities

    Put a really long powder drop tube on your funnel, this will help to pack the powder in your case, and IMHO 123/130 are a better choice for the 6.5-47
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    Re: powder densities

    I am tampering down the charge, and it seems to help, but very time consuming and you dont get consistent results. I think a drop tube will help, if I have small compression issues. But I still would like to predcict the volume to help me decide which powder to spend time with.

    I have debated the 120gr v 140gr with the 6.5L. At first I was thinking 140, then I went with 123scenars for my first round of testing. Then, I thought, 140 would be better for hunting, higher BC, significant less drift at long range, so I got the 142smks. Also, the Lapua bullets have a slightly small diameter, so I am trying the smk's. The 142smk in 6.5L load is more of research project.

    I do believe the developers of the cartridge where thinking 120-130gr.

    Probably will go 120gr range for everyday use, and have a load for 140's also for wildlife eradication use.

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    Re: powder densities

    The density of the powder will change over time due to its absorbing humidity. That's why a lot of the old timers recommend reloading by volume, not by weight. I never gave it much thought until I found that a bottle of RL-19 had that had been open about a year had gained about 9% in weight through absorbing humidity. That was an admittedly extreme case but it convinced me to start putting small packets of silica gel desiccant in every bottle of open powder.
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    Re: powder densities

    Originally Posted By: bosulli
    Would like to get >2800fps. Pushing a heavier bullet down a shorter barrel than most, I think I need a faster burning powder, and a denser powder to be able to get enough charge to get the desired velocity.

    That velocity won't be possible with a 140ish grain bullet. With a longer barrel than 22", I was able to get high 2600 to low 2700 fps with a 140 grain. The 6.5x47 round is one of the best case designs for very low extreme spreads and is very efficient. It won't equal the velocities of the 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmore. Work on finding an effiecient load that gives low ES and shoots bug holes, which this round will do. I would look no further than H4350 for powder.

    To answer your question on the powder density, go to each website, and look at the details of each powder. They will list the bbulk density of the powder, and you can see which is the most/least dense for your application.

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    If they make brass and a bullet for it, I can load it. Contact us about any caliber and bullet for pricing.

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    Re: powder densities

    I assumed it would be tough to get 2800 out a 22 inch barrel, pushing a 142gr bullet, and was willing to experiment with some faster burning powders.

    H4350 is probably the safe call, and will get me low ES, which after all is the goal.

    Not sure if loosing almost 300fps going to the 142gr bullet is worth what you gain in higher BC.

    Could not find the densities on the IMR\Hodgdon site, so I called, then emailed them. With the trouble I had with 41gr of IMR4350 is not indicative of the H4350.

    Thanks

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    Re: powder densities

    IMR 4350 and H4350 are 2 totally different powders. You will like H4350 much better. IMR 4350 is a black, extruded powder with very long pellets of powder. It takes up more room than H4350. H4350 is a greenish extruded powder, with much smaller pellets of powder. H4350 is very slick, and flows very smooth, and will pack better than IMR. In any case, I'd look into a drop tube for your powder. This will help compact the powder into a smaller space.
    If you plan to shoot over 600 or 800 yards, BC is king! If you're only shooting 600 or less, then a faster and flatter bullet would be ok. I normally like high BC better.

    Custom load work-up and ammunition in your firearm
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    If they make brass and a bullet for it, I can load it. Contact us about any caliber and bullet for pricing.

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    Re: powder densities

    Because I will shoot over 600 yds, and that BC is King is why I am testing the 142's. But that is a topic for a future thread.

    I am going with the H4350, and a long drop tube. Thinking 41gr will still be compressed.

    yes, the IMR4350 is dark, and long extruded pellets. Not sure why I had it laying around.

    And i am going to save silica packets and put them in powder cannisters. Thou, I will have to be careful and not eat them.

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    Re: powder densities

    Just download my file called Powder density chart.
    stuff

    Smokeless Powder
    Burn VMD Density
    Rate Mfg / Powder (cc/gr) (gr/cc) Comments
    1 Norma R-1
    2 Vihta Vuori N310 .1214 8.237
    3 Hodgdon Titewad .1300 7.690 Economical 12 gauge loads
    4 Accurate Nitro 100 .1349 7.413 12 ga, low pressure & low load density handgun loads
    5 Alliant Bullseye .1064 9.398 Handgun, light 12 gauge target loads
    6 Accurate Solo 1000 .1331 7.515 12 ga, .38, .45 ACP, very clean burning
    7 Scot Red Diamond
    8 Alliant Red Dot .1413 7.077 Shotgun powder with small pistol loads
    9 Alliant Promo Economical, clean shotgun powder, pistol loads too
    10 Hodgdon Titegroup .0848 11.799 Uniform ignition, low charge wt, clean pistol powder
    11 Accurate No. 2 .0838 11.933 Developed for .38 Special, economical handgun loads
    12 Alliant American Select .1341 7.455 12 gauge target loads, cowboy action handgun, clean
    13 Winchester AA Plus .1296 7.715 Discontinued
    14 Hodgdon Clays .1462 6.840 Clean & accurate 12 ga, .45 ACP, .38 Special
    15 Vihta Vuori N320 .1210 8.264
    16 Ramshot Competition Clean, fluffy powder for 12 ga clay & cowboy action
    17 Scot Royal D
    18 Winchester WST Target shotshell, standard velocity handgun, .45 ACP
    19 Hodgdon HP38 .0926 10.799 Economical low velocity .38 /.44 Special, .45 ACP
    20 Winchester 452AA .1171 8.540 Discontinued
    21 Scot 453
    22 Winchester 231 .0931 10.741 9mm, .38 Special, .45 ACP
    23 Ramshot Zip .0831 12.034 9mm, 38 Special, .40 S&W, .45 ACP
    24 IMR 700X .1343 7.446 12 ga, 16 ga, 38 Special, .45 ACP
    25 Alliant Green Dot .1262 7.924 Medium 12 ga & 16 ga, some handgun loads
    26 Hodgdon International .1266 7.899 12 ga medium to heavy 1 1/8 oz, some 20 ga
    27 Vihta Vuori N330 .1079 9.268
    28 IMR PB .1205 8.299 10-28 ga, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, meters well
    29 Accurate No. 5 .0623 16.051 Developed for .45 ACP, used in other handgun loads
    30 Scot Pearl .1333 7.502
    31 Winchester 473AA .0975 10.256 Discontinued
    32 Hodgdon HS-5 Discontinued
    33 Winchester WSL .0847 11.806 Discontinued
    34 Alliant Unique .1092 9.158 12 ga to 28 ga, most small & medium handgun loads
    35 Hodgdon Universal .1099 9.099 Clean, economical, most pistol & shotgun loads
    36 Alliant Power Pistol .0889 11.247 High performance 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm
    37 IMR SR7625 .1046 9.560 10-28 ga, various handgun loads
    38 Hodgdon HS-6 .0712 14.045 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, heavy shotshell loads
    39 Ramshot Silhouette .0810 12.346 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Sig, 10mm
    40 Winchester WAP .0810 12.350 Discontinued
    41 Vihta Vuori N340 .1066 9.381
    42 Winchester 540 .0683 14.641 Discontinued
    43 Alliant Herco .1122 8.913 Heavy shotgun loads 10 ga to 28 ga, heavy handguns
    44 Winchester WSF .8400 1.190 28 ga, 12 ga 1 1/8 & 1 1/4, 9mm, .38 Super, .40 S&W
    45 IMR SR4756 .1100 9.091 10-28 ga, larger handguns, meters well
    46 Scot Solo 1250 .1220 8.197
    47 Vihta Vuori 3N37 .0913 10.953
    48 IMR 800X .1071 9.337 10-28 ga, magnum handgun, large flake powder
    49 Accurate No. 7 .0653 15.314 Lower power .357, .41 and .44 magnum, dirty
    50 Hodgdon Longshot .0824 12.130 Shotgun powder, also excellent for pistol carbines
    51 Scot Solo 1500 .1099 9.099
    52 Ramshot True Blue .0693 14.430 9mm, .38 Special, .357 magnum, .45 ACP
    53 Vihta Vuori N350 .0977 10.235
    Burn VMD Density
    Rate Mfg / Powder (cc/gr) (gr/cc) Comments
    54 Vihta Vuori 3N38
    55 Hodgdon HS-7 .0680 14.706 Discontinued
    56 Alliant Blue Dot .0865 11.561 Magnum shotgun & handgun loads
    57 Winchester 571 .0680 14.706 Discontinued
    58 Vihta Vuori N105 .0900 11.110
    59 Accurate No. 9 .0657 15.221 .44 magnum, also smaller magnum pistols, .410
    60 Ramshot Enforcer .0689 14.514 .357 magnum, .44 magnum, 454 Casull, 480 Ruger
    61 Scot 4100
    62 Alliant Steel .1063 9.407 10 ga & 12 ga steel loads, magnum shotshell loads
    63 Alliant 2400 .0742 13.477 Magnum handgun, some rifle & shotshell loads
    64 Vihta Vuori N110 .0833 12.005
    65 Hodgdon Lil Gun .0678 14.749 .410 shotshells, also magnum pistol & .22 Hornet
    66 Norma R123
    67 Hodgdon H110 .0656 15.256 Accurate, powerful .44 Magnum, 454 Casull, & .410
    68 Winchester 296 .0656 15.244 .357 magnum, .44 magnum, .410 shotshell
    69 IMR SR4759 .0993 10.070 Bulky powder for reduced rifle loads
    70 Vihta Vuori N120 .0776 12.887
    71 IMR 4227 .0769 13.004 Magnum pistol, .410, .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball
    72 Accurate 5744 .0752 13.307 Reduced loads, low pressure rifle, .50 Sharps
    73 Alliant 410 .410 shotshell loads, clean burning
    74 Vihta Vuori N130 .0754 13.263
    75 Winchester 680 .0655 15.267 Discontinued
    76 Norma 200 .0677 14.771
    77 Accurate 1680 .0655 15.267 7.62X39 & .22 Hornet, also .222 & lighter .223
    78 Vihta Vuori N133 .0770 12.987
    79 Hodgdon H4198 .0750 13.333 .222 Remington, 444 Marlin, 7.62X39
    80 IMR 4198 .0792 12.626 .222 Remington, .221 Fireball, .45-70
    81 Scot Brig 4197
    82 Accurate 2015 .0730 13.699 Bench rest, PPC, .22 Hornet to .458 Win magnum
    83 Scot Brig 3032
    84 Alliant Reloder 7 .0728 13.736 Light rifle loads, silhouette loads
    85 IMR 3031 .0762 13.123 .223, .308, .30-30, etc.
    86 Hodgdon Benchmark .0715 13.992 Bench rest 6mm, .223, light .308 bullets, meters well
    87 Norma 201 .0691 14.472
    88 Scot Brig 322
    89 Hodgdon H322 .0725 13.793 Bench rest 6mm PPC, .223, 7mm TCU, meters well
    90 Ramshot X-Terminator .0658 15.198 .222 Remington, .223, .22 bench rest
    91 Accurate 2230 .0657 15.221 .223 Remington. formerly MR-223
    92 Winchester 748 .0655 15.267 .223 through .308, low temp for longer barrel life
    93 Alliant Reloder 10X .0746 13.412 .223 through light bullet .308, bench rest
    94 Hodgdon BLC-2 .0645 15.504 .223 through .308, bench rest, spherical powder
    95 Accurate 2460 .0656 15.244 .308 Winchester, various 7mm class
    96 Hodgdon H335 .0645 15.504 .222 Remington, .223, etc.
    97 Ramshot TAC .0658 15.198 .223 with heavy 80 grain bullets, .308, etc.
    98 .0728 13.736 Versatile, .17 Remington to .458 Winchester
    99 Accurate 2495 .0748 13.362 Cast bullets in .45/70 Government
    100 .0691 14.472 Discontinued
    101 IMR 4895 .0728 13.736 .30-06, .17 Remington through .375 H&H magnum
    102 Scot Brig 4065
    103 .0777 12.870
    104 Hodgdon Varget .0731 13.680 .223, .308, .30-06, etc. Stick powder meters poorly
    105 IMR 4064 .0745 13.423 Versatile, most rifle loads, .223, .308, etc.
    106 Accurate 4064 .0755 13.250 .30-06, similar to IMR 4064, short cut extruded
    107 Accurate 2520 .0683 14.650 .308 and similar medium capacity cases
    108 IMR 4320 .0716 13.966 .223, .22-250, .250 Savage, .300 Savage
    109 Norma 203 .0691 14.472
    Hodgdon H4895
    Alliant Reloder 12
    Vihta Vuori N135
    Burn VMD Density
    Rate Mfg / Powder (cc/gr) (gr/cc) Comments
    110 Vihta Vuori N140 .0733 13.643
    111 Vihta Vuori N540 .0701 14.263
    112 Accurate 2700 .0685 14.605 .22-250, .220 Swift, heavier bullets in other calibers
    113 Ramshot Big Game .0682 14.663 .22-250, 6mm, 7mm-08, .270, .30-06
    114 Alliant Reloder 15 .0706 14.164 Medium rifle loads, silhouette loads
    115 Hodgdon H380 .0691 14.472 .22-250, .220 Swift, .243, .257 Roberts
    116 Winchester 760 .0666 15.015 .30-06, 7mm-08
    117 Scot Brig 4351
    118 Hodgdon H414 .0661 15.129 .30-06, .22-250 through .375 H&H, meters well
    119 Vihta Vuori N150 .0746 13.405
    120 Vihta Vuori N550 .0692 14.445
    121 Accurate 4350 .0740 13.514 .243, .270, also heavy loads in other calibers
    122 IMR 4350 .0735 13.605 Rifle short magnums with light to medium wt bullets
    123 Hodgdon H4350 .0725 13.791 Magnum rifles with light to medium bullets
    124 Norma 204 .0677 14.771
    125 Ramshot Hunter .0682 14.663 .270, .223 WSSM, 7mm WSSM, 270 WSM, 300 WSM
    126 Alliant Reloder 19 .0706 14.164 Magnum rifle loads
    127 Vihta Vuori N160 .0734 13.624
    128 Vihta Vuori N560 .0690 14.493
    129 IMR 4831 .0735 13.605 Rifle medium magnums with heavier bullets
    130 Scot Brig 4831
    131 Norma 205 .0672 14.881
    132 Accurate XMR 3100 .0748 13.369 .243, 7mm Rem magnum, other large magnums
    133 Winchester WMR .0718 13.926 Discontinued
    134 Hodgdon H4831 .0725 13.793 .270 Winchester, .25-06 Remington, .300 Magnums
    135 Norma MRP
    136 Alliant Reloder 22 .0697 14.347 Magnum rifle loads
    137 Winchester 785 Discontinued
    138 Hodgdon H450 .0653 15.314 Discontinued
    139 Accurate Mag Pro .0663 15.076 Short action magnum rifles, magnums, meters well
    140 Vihta Vuori N165 .0712 14.045
    141 Winchester WXR Discontinued
    142 IMR 7828 .0725 13.793 Large magnum rifle loads, 7mm RUM, .300 RUM
    143 Accurate 8700 .0688 14.535 .270 / .300 Weatherby magnums, large magnums
    144 Hodgdon H1000 .0713 14.025 7mm magnums, heavier bullets in 6mm, .270 Win
    145 Ramshot Magnum .0658 15.198 .300 WBY, .300 Win Mag, 300 RUM
    146 Alliant Reloder 25 .0707 14.152 Large magnum rifle loads
    147 Hodgdon Retumbo Large magnum rifle loads, 7mm RUM, .300 RUM
    148 Hodgdon H870 .0686 14.577 Discontinued
    149 Vihta Vuori N170 .0713 14.019
    150 Vihta Vuori 24N41
    151 Hodgdon 50 BMG .0694 14.401 Standard for .50 BMG, clean, temperature stability
    152 Vihta Vuori 20N29
    The relative burn rate data is approximate, and varies according to the source. Do not use burn rate
    data to calculate comparable loads using a different powder.
    Lot-to-lot variation will alter burn rate and density.
    Comments are derived from user comments as well as manufacturer's claims, and are subjective.
    http://www.accuratepowder.com
    http://www.alliantpowder.com
    http://www.hodgdon.com
    http://www.imrpowder.com
    http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/powders.htm
    http://www.ramshot.com
    http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com
    http://www.wwpowder.com

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    Re: powder densities

    Thanks mechanic. I downloaded it. Sure that took some time to compile.

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    Re: powder densities

    Mate

    I am running 142SMK's at 2810fps, no pressure with 41.2grains of H4350. The barrel is 26" long and the bullets are moly.

    I found each 0.1grains was worth about 5-6fps. My loads are compressed, can hear crunching. I just dont think you can get enough powder in the case to cause pressure issues, well with my rifle anyway!!! I think I could get it to 2830fps no sweat.

    Velocity measured with CED M2 chrony...

    Do not try this load in your rifle, work up to it.. and remember I am using moly!!

    CHeers

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    Re: powder densities

    That is good news, Ack. Thanks for the info.

    What is your OAL?

  13. #13
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    Re: powder densities

    FYI, Hodgdon got back with me.

    On the high end, the density in grams\litre
    H4530 960
    IMR4530 982

    Which explains why I have trouble with 40gr of IMR4350 when other are working with 41gr of H4350.

  14. #14
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    Re: powder densities

    http://www.icehouse.net/fgrig/gun/SURPLUS.TXT
    Quote:
    IMR-POWDER GRANULATIONS AND COMPOSITIONS
    Powder Dia. Perf. Lgth. Web Coating Density
    (.65xdie) (.93xcut) (%) (g/cc)
    4198 .027 .007 .085 .010 6 DNT .85
    3031 .030 .007 .030 .0015 8 DNT .89
    4064 .032 .007 .085 .0128 9 DNT .90
    4320 .034 .007 .042 .014 8 DNT .92
    4350 .039 .008 .085 .016 5 DNT .925
    4676 .034 .007 .058 .013 7 DNT .90
    4895 .033 .007 .058 .013 6 DNT .90
    4831 .039 .008 .085 .016 8 DNT .90


    I was a little confused until I realized that Ed's Red is in grams per cubic centimeter and the mechanic is in grains per cubic centimeter.
    I guess grains is gr and grams is g.
    That is like tablespoons and teaspoons tbsp and tsp.
    How did I make money?
    I set my own rate for designing things using math, while communicating with managers like they were attention deficit disorder 5 year olds with a gun pointed at me.

  15. #15
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    Re: powder densities

    Most things are in grams but just about every single measurement in firearms is in grains. I have always thought that it was partially safety to denote explosive material and secondly a more accurate smaller base measurement. Just a thought that I have not researched.

  16. #16
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    Re: powder densities

    Originally Posted By: The Mechanic
    Just download my file called Powder density chart.
    stuff


    WOW cool stuff
    Thanks!
    T