09-27-2013, 08:50 AM #51
Thanks for your reply.
Do you seat the 185 gr Berger to 73.85 mm (2.907") as in your last post still? What seating depth have you found the best accuracy with the Berger 185 gr? I am assuming you're using Lapua brass. Does your load seat out to the maximum length of your magazine?
By the way, do you reside in Ireland? Beautiful county. Great people.
09-27-2013, 12:40 PM #52
I have watched the Long Range Blog for a while. It was his videos alone that convinced me to take a serious look at the Blaser rifles. But I hadn't seen THAT particular video before. As for David Tubb....OK. I'm pleased to see that video. I figure if Tubb is good with a Versa-pod, I should be just fine. I mean...I'm about half the shooter he is! HA!
Having never had a Versa-pod before, are there different versions? Perhaps a model I should pay attention to or one to avoid?
And on a personal note: RXS0, thanks for everything. I really appreciate the help.
09-27-2013, 01:15 PM #53
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
This is the model I would recommend. All steel construction, heavy duty and sturdy, good leg length (9-12") for bench, hunting, and tactical applications. This is one of the 50 Series with Friction Controls.
160-052 Versa-Pod ® All-Steel Model 52 Bipod
"The Versapod is "rattly", it moves left and right and up and down, and this may cause the rifle to fall over, sure. But when you shoot ( it is my opinion) that you should lean into the bipod, and thus stabilize it. The "looseness" is for moving your point of aim when in that position, without putting tension where it does not need to be.
With the harris I find that much more difficult to do, the legs are not easily preloaded, and feel "springy".
The idea that you need to lock it with some screw in the back does in my opinion mean that you are doing it wrong.
What happens with natural point of aim with a "dead" locked bipod?
If the bipod in any way restricts the rearward movement of the rifle in recoil, then you are certain of bad results."
Kenneth on Blaser Buds
Last edited by rxs0; 09-29-2013 at 01:59 PM.rxs0
09-27-2013, 05:47 PM #54
One more question. I am looking for a source for the spigot, a larger bolt knob (r8), and perhaps a stock-pack.
Euro-optic doesn't seem to have the knob. And they don't carry the Bipod.
Do you happen to know what stock-pack Long-range Blog is using?
And perhaps a dealer that might have a spigot, knob and bi-pod I can buy in one shot?
09-27-2013, 06:57 PM #55
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
The stockpad used on Thomas Haugland's Blaser R93 rifle (Longrange blog on YouTube) was made by Hillman. Sadly, it is no longer in production.
You may want to try one of the following stock packs:
Triad Cheek Rest
Triad Tactical, Inc.*::*Triad Tactical*::*All Triad Stock Packs™*::*Triad Large Stock Pack™
The velcro strips underneath the stock pack are part of the extra Comb Height Kit. There are are 6 velcro strips in the kit, giving a max of 3/8 of an inch additional height. Each strip is only 1/16 of an inch thick. You can buy extra strips if needed.
Also try out the Triad Tapered Rear Bag, AKA:Wedgie
Rear Bag comparison
Thomas Haugland THLR Ultralight Rear Bag (green with black straps)
Bradley Tactical Cheek Rest
Bradley Adjustable Tactical Black
Bradley Cheek Rest Review (B24 and Bradley Adjustable)
TacOps Stock Pad
TAC OPS CHEEK PADS | Brownells
Here is a link to a Rifle Stock Pack Thread on Sniper's Hide
Rifle stock pack
Karsten Adjustable Cheek Piece
You can order the knob and spigot from EBay.
Vektor Maskin Bipod mount. Fits Blaser R8 at Eurooptics
The Bipod can be purchased from manufacturer or Amazon.
Last edited by rxs0; 01-11-2014 at 08:43 AM.rxs0
10-01-2013, 04:13 AM #56
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
10-04-2013, 10:25 PM #57
It seems they include whatever kit you want. I just am not 100% on European hardware.
Thanks for the great thread.
10-05-2013, 08:05 PM #58
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
150-601 UIT (Anschutz) Rail Versa-Pod Bipod Adapter
"This model fits many popular custom stocks and European rifles fitted with the UIT (Anschutz) rail i.e. Steyr-Mannlicher, SAKO, Savage, Blaser, Sig-Sauer. Once installed this adapter provides a nice hand rest for bench shooting as well as detachable flush-cap sling loop."
Another option is to attach the following adapter to the Atlas AFAR picatinny rail so that you could use this adapter and bipod on other rifles as well.
Nice to have multiple choices. Let me know which bipod system you shoot better from and prefer.
Last edited by rxs0; 10-06-2013 at 10:16 AM.rxs0
10-05-2013, 10:43 PM #59
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Be sure to download the Blaser Magazine "Passion" app for the iPhone and iPad published by Blaser Jagdwaffen GmbH, available in English and German.
"FREE PASSION APP FOR TABLETS
PASSION INTERNATIONAL now has its own app! Besides the current issue of the English-language PASSION INTERNATIONAL, you can also find our previous PASSION INTERNATIONAL 1 on the Apple App Store as well as the Google Play Store. All the German language editions of PASSION are also available free of charge. You can download our reports on Blaser, Mauser, SAUER, ZEISS and RWS at any time and read them in your hunting cabin, in the tree stand or anywhere else. PASSION is now always on and ‘app-to-date’!"
Search "Blaser Passion".
"PASSION is the exclusive customer magazine for the German firms of Blaser, Mauser, SAUER, ZEISS and RWS. PASSION uses a premium glossy format to inform the customer about each of the five sponsors’ newest products and trends. Appearing annually in English, this is your source of first-hand information – the editors of PASSION have opened the otherwise locked doors to their design, manufacturing and assembly departments.
In PASSION, professional hunters, scenthound handlers and African guides get their say. In addition to introducing the reader to the most current hunting practices along with plenty of industry tips and know-how, we also showcase some of the most enchanting hunting spots from around the globe. Every issue features the latest outfits for the fashion-conscious outdoorsman.
Reports, interviews, photo spreads and insider knowledge guarantee infotainment of the highest level, all presented in a modern and elegant format."
Last edited by rxs0; 10-05-2013 at 11:14 PM.rxs0
10-08-2013, 07:06 PM #60
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Night Vision Rails for the Blaser Tactical 2:
Here are some interesting rails for the Blaser Tactical 2. You can use these rails to add night vision equipment and side rails.
And another model by McCann Industries made for the Miami Police Department.
And of course, the Blaser Night Vision Rails,
Blaser Tactical 2 OR LRS 2, NIGHT VISION RAIL on Gunbroker
Australian military versions
Notice the small accessory side rails along the action. These can be attached to the Blaser action via metric M5 x .8 short bolts/screws. The holes measure 7 cm (2.75 inches) apart. The rail in the photograph appears to be about 4 inches in length.
Last edited by rxs0; 10-22-2013 at 10:41 PM.rxs0
10-17-2013, 11:30 AM #61
I understand how the Blaser rail mounts. I see the holes on my receiver. How for the forward rails mount? I assume that plate pops out?
Which is the lightest weight rail?
10-18-2013, 12:40 PM #62
One more question the Blaser R8. I have a larger bolt-knob I wish to swap out. Does the factory knob need to be "broken" with heat before I start?
10-18-2013, 01:07 PM #63
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Blaser Tactical 2 Side Picatinny Rails
Given the custom fit and dimensions of the Blaser Tactical 2 side action picatinny rail, it would probably be best to cut a custom picatinny rail to properly fit the side of the action.
You can start by taping a piece of white paper to the side of the action and penciling a template onto the paper. In this case, I used the left side of the action for the template. To answer your question, you have about 1.5 cm (0.59 inches) of rail length measured from the center of the front screw before the rail starts sticking out in front.
Using an aluminum blank low profile picatinny rail, you can then cut and drill the rail to precise dimensions and fit, with a 2.75" center-to-center hole spacing. Aluminum is relatively easy to cut with a fine hacksaw and miter box.
I am also looking into shops that will do custom work, like cutting a custom rail.
Try Murphy Precision at tel:1-800-553-8527
MurphyPrecision.com - Scope Bases, Rings, and Assorted Shooting Accessories.
4 inch low profile rails:
Alternatively, you can use a 4 inch plastic polymer MOE Magpul rail, which is easier to cut and drill. This is the lightest rail.
Fastbrick on AR15.com did a nice custom job with the accessory 4 inch rail.
4 inch Yankee Hill Rail
The undersurface of this rail is slightly concave.
Yankee Hill Machine Picatinny Rail 4 Fits Yankee Hill Customizable
Use the hole closest to the end of the rail for the forwardmost screw. You will have to drill a second hole in the rail to fit the rearmost screw. The second drill hole should be 7 slots away from the first hole.
Leapers Picatinny Rails
The undersurface of this rail is flat.
Atlas Bipod Accessory BT17 1913 Rail 4"
The undersurface of this rail is flat.
This rail should fit without modification given the elongated screw slot.
"The new BT17 - 4" 1913 Rail will accommodate hole patterns with a center to center spacing of 2.2 – 3.5" with a FLAT base to accommodate flat surfaces. A standard sling stud and Sling Stud spacer can be used as one fastener or two Button head machine screws can be used, NO HARDWARE IS INCLUDED to attach this rail to the forearm of standard rifle stocks. The BT17 also has a flush cup for that style of sling swivels."
Aim Sports Uncut Blank Picatinny Rail
M5 x .8 mounting screws:
Tom Argubright at Blaser USA told me that the bolts/screws along the rail are M5 x .8 bolts. M5 bolts are standard throughout the rifle. For example, several of the screws of the stock are M5 screws. The screw holes along the side of the action are approximately 9 mm deep. I used one of the stock screws to measure the depth of the screw holes along the side of the action.
Use short approximately 12-14 mm length bolts. It might pay to get a longer bolt that can then be cut down to the proper length.
mr. metric bolts and screws
Since these bolts are stainless steel, you will have to paint the top of the screw flat black to match your rail.
Use this M5 x .8 x 14mm button head socket cap screw for the BT17 rail
Use this M5 x .8 x 12mm flat head socket cap screw for the Yankee Hill rail
Hope this helps.
Last edited by rxs0; 10-22-2013 at 10:49 PM.rxs0
10-18-2013, 09:56 PM #64
No heat was used in this video, only a piece of thick tape and pliers. You might try using a pair of vice grip pliers and a thin strip of leather or cardboard to protect the old bolt knob in case you want to use it again.
Last edited by rxs0; 10-18-2013 at 10:08 PM.rxs0
10-20-2013, 08:17 PM #65
Yup. I just figured the video might have omitted the step for brevity since they apply locktite when done. Bolt switch happens tomorrow when I'm back in the shop.
11-11-2013, 05:12 PM #66
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
The Blaser Radial Collet (Expanding Shell) and Headspace
The Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, and R8) bolt action rifle features a straight-pull action and radial collet bolt with no rotating parts. The bolt head assembly consists of two major parts, a slotted circular collet called the expanding shell and bolt head with radial lock outer collar, held together with a rivet. This expanding shell collet has a flared ridge in the front, just behind the bolt head. When the bolt is closed, the bolt head comes in contact with an inner bolt head recess of the barrel (cartridge chamber with radial lock inner collar) and the 360 degree radial collet is pushed up against a tapered section at the rear of the bolt head and expands into a raised circular ridge. This raised circular ridge expands into the corresponding radial locking groove in the barrel. This can be demonstrated by "chambering" the action with the barrel removed. The process can be simulated by pushing on the bolt head and "locking" the flaired collet over the back of the bolt head. The radial locking groove is clearly visualized in the image labeled, "R93 - bolt opened" below. This locks the bolt into the barrel with 360 degree contact and self centers the round in the chamber. The bolt head is free floating and allows auto-centering and self headspacing. During firing, the bolt pushes back and results in greater radial collet tension and hold. This also results in less stress on the receiver. The Radial lockup allows stress to be distributed through a full 360° of contact. This provides greater system strength and durability. Lastly, since the bolt head locks into the barrel and not the receiver, this allows for a full length barrel in a rifle that is 4 inches shorter than the conventional bolt action rifle. To better understand the workings of the radial collet, I will begin by explaining how I measured chamber and brass headspace for the Blaser Tactical 2 .338 Lapua Magnum.
The chamber headspace was measured with Headspace gauges from Pacific Tool and Gauge (PTG). This set includes (10) gauges ranging from Saami minimum spec, 2.2528 @ Datum .476" (GO gauge), all the way to 2.2628 @ Datum .476" in increments of. 0.001". This includes the maximum Saami spec gauge of 2.2578" @ Datum .476" (NO GO gauge). The equivalent measurements at Datum .400" are 2.357" for the GO gauge (2.2528" @ Datum .476") and 2.362" for the NO GO gauge (2.2578" @ Datum .476"). The difference in length between the GO and NO GO gauges is 0.005".
I remeasured each of the gauges with the Hornady .400" Datum aluminum insert for relative measurement comparison purposes. My measurements with the Hornady Datum .400" aluminum insert are approximations. The aluminum inserts are not as accurate as the PTG or Manson headspace gauges (which are accurate up to tolerances of 0.0001"). To make matters worse, the aluminum Hornady inserts also have a slight uneven chamfer on the edge of the bore which may wear over time and causes them to ride further up on the shoulder and result in a shorter measurements. As an example, the reference PTG Go gauge precisely measures 2.357" @ Datum .400". When measured with the Hornady .400" insert and a generic electronic caliper, the PTG GO Gauge measures approximately 2.349". This is consistent with a measuring error of -0.008"!
"This gauge is intended to measure comparative/relative headspace, and not absolute headspace, and is not intended to be used for determining true measurements."
Go Gages, Datum Lines, and Reamer Prints...
Head Space Measurement Mysteries
For more precise absolute measurements, use the PTG or Manson GO gauges for precise headspace measurements and reference. You can then measure the more precise GO headspace gauge (at Datum .400") with the Hornady 0.400" Datum gauge and correct for the difference in length. The Manson diagram shows the GO Gauge length to be 2.3576" @ Datum .400". The PTG Go gauge measures 2.357" @ Datum .400" (2.2528" @ Datum .476") . I purposely used the .400" Datum insert given that is what most Reloaders have access to and would allow for easier relative measurement comparisons. I have attached the PTG and Manson headspace gauge prints at the bottom of this post.
Ideally the chamber headspace measurement should be performed after removal of the extractor and ejector. This was not done. I compensated for not removing the extractor and ejector by forcefully chambering the gauge to engage the extractor and applying continuous forward tension on the bolt housing. I used a thin plastic homemade "feeler gauge" measuring 0.012" in thickness (small piece of plastic sheet from Hornady product plastic enclosure) to check for widening of the space between the barrel shoulder and the bolt housing face. You can also use a small piece of solder wire to directly measure this space. The baseline space between the barrel shoulder and bolt housing face (breech lock) was noted first with the GO gauge in place. The following measurements with the Hornady .400" insert we're corrected by adding 0.008" to the uncorrected actual measurements. For example, the uncorrected PTG GO gauge measurement is 2.349" @ Datum .400". Adding 0.008" to the actual measurement with the Hornady .400" insert yields a corrected value of 2.357" @ Datum .400". The following measurements made with the Hornady .400" insert have been corrected by adding 0.008".
The "feeler gauge" would not fit into this space with the GO gauge 2.357" @ Datum .400" (2.2528" @ Datum .476") in place. The next gauge 2.358" @ Datum .400" (2.2538" @ Datum .476") above the GO gauge length started to widen the space between the barrel and bolt housing breech lock and allowed the plastic "feeler gauge" to now easily pass between the space. The 2.358" @ Datum .400" (2.2538" @ Datum .476") headspace gauge was now making contact and slightly widening the space between the chamber shoulder and the bolt face. This identified the chamber headspace length as 2.358" @ Datum .400" (2.2538" @ Datum .476"). The pre-firing chamber headspace is about 0.001" above minimum Saami headspace of 2.357" @ Datum .400" (2.2528" @ Datum .476").
Surprisingly, I was able to PARTIALLY close the chamber on the NO GO gauge and on the next longer Field gauge. Although I could force the charging handle down, the firing pin however would not strike with these gauges in place. These longer gauges prevented the full lock up of the action and resulted in firing pin malfunction. This is presumably a safety feature and is commonly experienced by shooters as the dreaded misfire "click" one experiences with incompletely resized reloads. You can test firing pin function with No Go and Field Headspace gauges by filling the firing pin hole of the headspace gauge with "wite-out" correction fluid.
Help!!!!!! R93 closes on no go gauge!
BlaserBuds.com Discussion Board ? View topic - Help!!!!!! R93 closes on no go gauge!
All brass headspace measurements were made with the Hornady 0.400" Datum insert for measuring the .338 Lapua Magnum brass. The following measurements were again corrected by adding 0.008" to the length measured with the 0.400" Hornady insert. The fired brass headspace ranged in size from 2.360" to a maximum fired brass headspace length of 2.362". As a test, a fired brass with a measured headspace of 2.360" corrected was easily chambered and extracted in the rifle.
In a conventional bolt action chamber, the optimal brass headspace length is 0.001-0.002" less than the chamber headspace. Unlike a conventional bolt action rifle with a single fixed chamber headspace dimension, the ingenious Blaser radial collet and floating bolt head allow for precise self headspacing over a short range of brass headspace lengths from Saami minimum to near maximum specs. The Blaser 180 degree radial collet is designed to lock into the barrel chamber and apply dynamic radial tension depending on the chambered round's headspace. At each headspace length in this range, the radial collet and bolt head apply consistent forward tension and maintain minimal headspace clearance between the round and chamber. As mentioned earlier, this self centers the cartridge and sets the chamber headspace. This is relatively flexible and can accommodate various sized cartridge lengths up to a point (within Saami specs). If the cartridge's length is too short (less than minimum Saami spec), the firing pin won't reach and strike the primer due to excessive headspace. If the cartridge is too long (at or greater than maximum Saami spec), the cartridge will prevent complete lock up of the action and result in a misfire.
During firing, the chamber expands and the collet is slightly pushed back against the locking groove in the the barrel and beyond the pre-firing length. Unlike a conventional rifle bolt action which has a fixed maximum chamber headspace and locked bolt, the Blaser Radial Collet allows for slight expansion of the chamber headspace during firing of the cartridge. For example, in the Blaser .338 Lapua Magnum rifle, the chamber head space expands approximately 0.004" from the pre-firing length of 2.358" @ Datum .400" to the maximum fired chamber length of 2.362" @ Datum .400". This is evident in the fire formed brass which demonstrate headspace expansion up to 2.362" @ Datum .400".
To optimize brass headspace length, the fire formed brass can then be resized 0.002" less that the maximum fired brass length of 2.362" @ Datum .400" to 2.360" @ Datum .400". In other words, when resizing, push your shoulder back 0.002" from the maximum headspace length of your fired brass. This is a good balance between optimal cartridge headspace, partial resizing, and avoidance of misfires. This also prevents excessive brass stretching which can lead to case head separation.
Real Guns - Blaser R8 Modular Rifle Part I
The Blaser's bolt does not rotate in an axial fashion; in fact it remains in a fixed position. The bolt handle rotates fore and aft approximately 45°; aft to unlock the bolt. Once unlocked, the bolt handle carries the entire bolt assembly aft to extract and eject and forward to chamber a round. With the bolt handle rotated aft, top picture, the radial locking lugs (circled) are collapsed to a measured 0.807" in diameter. With the handle rotated forward, locked, the bolt's radial lug arrangement expands to a measured 0.962" and locked into a radial recess in the barrel's shank. In short, the bolt is not going anywhere once locked. Neither operating pressures nor bolt thrust is going to make it budge and the concentric circle of radial lugs and radial groove in the barrel shroud pull the bolt head into perfect alignment with case head and bore axis.
PTG Headspace Gauges
Hornady Headspace Tool Set with Bushings and Body
HORNADY LOCK-N-LOAD? HEADSPACE GAUGE TOOL | Sinclair Intl
6" Digital Caliper
6" DIGITAL CALIPER | Sinclair Intl
Blaser R93 misfire - Why neck sizing is not good for Blaser straight pull rifles by Roe Stalker
"Apparently if one only neck sizes the brass one can face an issue of this “annoying click”. I am saying click as I am not sure it is a “real” misfire when the firing pin is not hitting the primer hard enough it is more to do with the action not fully closing.
I made a few rounds using the brass fired in the Blaser, trimmed and neck sized. I wanted to check whether the issue people talked about was real or not. I quickly found out it was true. Half of the rounds would not fire first time in the rifle. Eventually I managed to get all of them to fire, but had to slam the bolt on the case hard couple of times. Not good if you have a medal buck standing in front of you…"
[Always full length resize brass cases to avoid misfires in Blaser rifles secondary to Neck Sizing Only. This tends to occur when neck sizing only, without bumping of the shoulder of the case. Neck sizing only can lead to overly long cartridge headspace which prevents full lock up of the action and results in firing pin malfunction. Correct Full length resizing results in more uniform and consistent brass.]
Response to Roe Stalker's Video by Robert Stokes
Blaser R93 and neck sized brass » Roe Stalker
"The reason the R93 doesn’t fire with a cartridge that is over maximum headspace is a safety feature of the design. It is interrupting the firing pin because the bolt is not fully in battery. This is a common event in many designs that block or restrict the firing pin if the action is not fully locked. The M16 and equivalent designs also do this. I see it happen every year as we prepare for the national matches and train new shooters. If they are used to reloading for a conventional bolt rifle and fail to move the shoulder back about .003 inches, you hear the dreaded click, a hand goes up, an alibi called and everyone waits while the issue is diagnosed. Happens every year and is an annoyance, but not nearly the annoyance it would be if the round was fired without the bolt fully closed. Same is true for the Blaser design, without this safety feature, there would be a catastrophic failure, if the round could fire without the bolt securely locked."
Blaser R8 Missfire
BlaserBuds.com Discussion Board ? View topic - Blaser R8 missfire
Excellent Discussion on Blaser Rifle Misfires, Headspace, and Full Length Resizing.
Reloading problem [Archive] - The Stalking Directory
[Blaser rifle misfires can occur in some rifles with both factory ammunition and especially reloads. In some cases, this may be due to weak/soft cycling of the action, inconsistent primer seating, inadequate full length sizing, and neck sizing. Neck sizing only or inadequate full length sizing (not pushing the shoulder back enough) can lead to overly long cartridge headspace which prevents full lock up of the action and results in firing pin malfunction. Bullets seated too far out with the ogive jammed into the lands can result in inadvertent excessive cartridge length which prevents the bolt from completely locking. In other cases, this can be due to excessive rifle chamber headspace or overzealous full length resizing. In addition to misfires, excessive chamber headspace can also result in inconsistent primer ignition, poor accuracy, decreased brass life, and catastrophic case head separation. Ideally, the difference in headspace between the chamber and loaded round should be 0.001-0.002" in conventional bolt action rifles. For Blaser rifles using the radial collet bolt head system, the headspace of fired brass can be resized 0.002" less than the maximum headspace length of fire formed brass, with the goal of keeping the headspace length below maximum saami headspace spec.]
Last edited by rxs0; 12-08-2013 at 06:00 PM.rxs0
11-14-2013, 04:16 PM #67
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Custom Full Length Resizing and Seater Dies
"The Straightest brass that I have used comes from a one piece die that is properly dimensioned for my chamber and which produces correct neck tension without an expander."
BoydAllen on Accurate Shooter
Custom .338 Lapua Magnum Resizing Die Reamer by rxs0
Sorry for the poor image quality of the Reamer Print. Tapatalk has downgraded the image quality of their photos. I have attached another image file in the thumbnails below.
Full Length Sizing Die parameters in detail.
Neck Size: I choose .365 as a starting point as this is one of the more commonly used neck bushings for Lapua 338 LM brass. Other choices include neck diameters of .364 and .366. You made need .364 for thinner Hornady brass. Both the proximal (neck @ shoulder) and distal neck (neck @ case mouth) diameters are equal in size.
Shoulder Diameter: The shoulder on my fired brass (x 1) measured approximately .545" on average. I used .544" as the resize diameter accounting for .001" of brass springback. This final brass shoulder diameter should springback to .545". You can also try .5445" for a springback shoulder diameter of approximately .5455".
Shoulder Angle: 20 Degrees. This matches the Blaser 338 LM chamber and is standard for many 338 LM rifles.
Base Diameter: The fired brass base diameter is approximately .58535-.58580". The Base Diameter of .585" should allow for adequate resizing at the base of the brass. Another option is to resize the base to .584" or .5845".
Mouth of Die to Shoulder Length: This is the length used in Forster's 338 LM Full Length Resizing Die. This allows for a range of headspace length and the shell holder height. I intend to resize the headspace of the fired brass to 0.002" less than the average unsized fired brass headspace at Datum .400".
Neck Length: I used .400" to allow for over lengthened brass. You will still need to trim your brass to 2.714".
Pilot Size: The PTG 338 Caliber Pilot Hole Die Blank 7/8"-14 ThreadDie has a .250" diameter pilot hole. The Newlon Precision 338 LM Full Sizing Die uses a .330" diameter pilot hole. Be sure to select the correct pilot size that matches the pilot hole of the die. This varies among die manufacturers.
See the following link for Newlon Precision pilot hole sizes based on caliber.
I just called Dave at Whidden Gun Works regarding ordering custom resizing dies. Whidden Gun Works uses CNC machines to manufacture the sizing and seating dies. No resizing reamer is required!
To order a resizing die, you need to send a reamer print (in PDF or Excel format) or (3) cases of fired brass for measurements. Please specify whether the die is a bushing or non-bushing die.
The reamer print can be submitted by email to Whidden Gun Works attention Dave at the following email address,
Please include name, address, phone number, email, and credit card information.
"When making a JLC conversion Die, I don’t just fit them for bushings. I measure your fired cases, and then start honing and polishing the die core to match. I will periodically stop to resize a piece of brass and check it against a fired case. This can take a long time, depending on the size of the chamber. I feel that the front of the case just below the shoulder should be resized about .0005″, and the base resized .001″. I also think the shoulder, or datum line needs to be pushed back no more than .001″. This is what I strive for compared to brass that has been fired several times.
These resize dimensions stated above (.0005″ shoulder reduction, .001″ base reduction), will work well with all chamberings I have encountered. When working with a larger capacity case (the 338 Lapua Magnum for example), I will increase the amount of resize slightly. I feel the resize on the base of the case is the most important component in achieving satisfactory brass life. Resizing with a die with the correct shoulder/base dimensions, and using it every time you reload, will result in the longest case life and easiest bolt operation. If you wait until the brass is getting hard to chamber and extract before resizing, most likely it will never work well again. This is because of the memory effect of the brass case. Once it gets to an oversized state, after resizing, upon firing it will simply stretch back to the same condition, and extract hard again."
Bushing Dies and Die Conversions within AccurateShooter.com
"If you reload, your brass will fireform to match your reamed chamber. My chambering reamer makes my seating dies. My sizing reamer cuts my sizing die .003 smaller at the base and .002 at the shoulder."
Pacific Tool and Gauge
4140 chrome moly steel die
5# 338 Lapua / 340 Wby.Mag.
416 Stainless Steel or 12L-14 Steel (non-hardened)
Here’s a list of excellent gunsmiths who are all very familiar with our [Newlon] dies.
895 County Road 200
Brundidge, AL 36010
3464 Messersmith Rd.
York, PA 17408
24005 HWY 13
Rifle, CO 81650
Red Lion, PA 17356
3801 N. I-35 Suite 142
Denton, TX 76207
Straight Shot Gunsmithing
2175 41st Ave S.W.
Center, ND 58530
The type of reamer I will use is a Pacific Gauge and Tool Removable Pilot Finish Reamer made of high speed steel (HSS). As mentioned above, the reamer will use a .250" or .330" pilot depending on the die type. Although you can use a solid pilot finish reamer, I decided to upgrade to the removable pilot reamer.
"Heat treating is generally not necessary as the die body will last a long time after cutting to the correct dimensions, as the body will then only have contact from the brass cartridge cases. However, if heat treating is desired, heat to 1650 1700 degrees F and then allow to cool slowly for 3 to 6 hours." (Excerpt from PTG website)
Custom Resizing Dies and Wilson Seating Dies
PTG Resize Reamer and Die Body Blank
Although this special price now longer exists, you can still order the Die Blank and Re-Size Reamer separately
PT&G Special on FL Re-Size Reamer and Die Body Blank Kit « Daily Bulletin
30 Caliber Die Blank
338 Caliber Die Blank
Wilson Seater Blank Die
WILSON SEATER BLANK | Sinclair Intl
The 338 LM Seater Die Blank uses a .341" Pilot Hole.
The 300 Win Mag and 308 Win Seater Blank Dies use the .300" Pilot Hole.
L.E. Wilson Inc. Recommends Whidden Gun Works for Custom Die Work.
Whidden Gunworks Sizing & Seating Dies within AccurateShooter.com
P.O. Box 969
2264 Mark Watson Rd.
Nashville, GA 31639
Pacific Tool and Gauge
Reamers, Chamber Reamers, Jgstools.com, Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, Chamber Reamers , Gauges, Bore Reamers, Precision Tools, Turbo Assesories,
Clymer Tools Welcome - Gunsmith
Dave Mason Precision Reamers
Address: 8515 Wagner Creek Rd., Talent, Oregon 97540, USA
Custom Die Work
SPENCER TOOL AND GRIND LLC
Standish, MI 48658
Spencer Tool & Grind LLC | Custom Tooling and Bullet Dies for the Firearm Industry
Warner Tool Company
201 Old Homestead Hwy
N. Swanzey - NH - 03431
Warner Tool Company
17217 Brookhouser Road, Saegertown PA 16433
Neil Jones Custom Products
JLC Precision (Jim Carstensen)
13095 450th Ave
Bellevue, IA 52031
Shop phone: (563) 689-6258, cell: (563) 212-2984
3464 Messersmith Road
York, PA 17404
Bob Green Home
Black Diamond Rifles
58896 866 Road
Allen, Ne. 68710
Custom Reloading Dies
PO Box 702
Blue Bell, PA 19422
Keystone Accuracy Custom Rifles, Plymouth Meeting, PA
GMW Vickerman Home
Gemmell’s Machine Works, Inc.
Owner & Machinist: Robert Gemmell
PO Box 25
Dayton, WA 99328
Whidden Gunworks Sizing & Seating Dies within AccurateShooter.com
P.O. Box 969
2264 Mark Watson Rd.
Nashville, GA 31639
We can make customs dies for you [by CNC machines with no resizing reamer required] to match your exact specifications for .20 cal and larger. We offer custom sizers, seaters, & sets. Simply provide your chamber reamer print or three pieces of fired brass and we can get your dies underway.
Custom Two Die Set
Dies larger than 7/8” sizer/seater
Call us at (229) 686-1911 to place your order.
Custom Machining Services | Custom Case Trimmer Pilots | Custom Case Trimmer Collets
310 East Lanark Avenue
Lanark, Illinois 61046
PHONE & FAX
p: (815) 493-6360 Open 8 A.M. - 4 P.M. Central Time Zone
f: (815) 493-2371
CUSTOM neck honing of Forster FULL LENGTH SIZING or NECK SIZING DIE to your specification. We custom hone the inside neck diameter by using a diamond stoning process. We enlarge the inside diameter to prevent over-sizing of the case neck due to thick neck walls. You may require this service for two reasons: 1) If you use some brands of brass cases, such as Norma or Lapua, which have thicker neck walls. 2) If you do not intend to outside neck turn case necks that have thickened after repeated firings. Please specify desired inside neck diameter. Note: 1) No more than .008" stock removal from your existing die neck diameter is possible. 2) Honing is done in increments of one half thousandth of an inch (.0005"), meaning that your specified inside diameter must be either.XXX0" or .XXX5".
$12.00 plus actual return shipping cost & insurance Please allow 1-3 weeks.
Full Length Die
Hornady has temporarily stopped making custom dies
Last edited by rxs0; 01-11-2014 at 05:42 PM.rxs0
11-19-2013, 04:37 PM #68
General Gunsmith Information
Recommended General Gunsmiths
Rifle Bore Lapping/Polishing
Throat Erosion Gauge
Gunsmith and Hobbyist Equipment
Want to make your own custom resizing and seater dies?
Mini-lathe website, Your source for information on the 7x10, 7x12, 7x14 and 7x16 mini-lathes
Lambeth/Kiff Micrometer Adjustable Reamer Stop Kit - (MARS Kit)
Reaming Die Blanks
Reaming a resizing die
reaming sizing dies
Anyone reaming dies???
Case Prep Lathe Choice
4. HOW-TO: Ultimate AR Chamber Polish
Chambering a 338 Lapua Magnum?
reaming sizing dies
Recommended Gunsmith Books and DVDs
The Gunsmith Machinist, Books I and II
Steve Acker (Author)
Rifling Machines & Methods
Clifford F Labounty (Author)
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting
John Hinnant (Author)
This book is still available by e-mail to JohnStranahan@aol.com. $40 Papal or Credit Card or personal check. The book comes with a homeshop machining CD now. Details or table of content are available by e-mail.
"Centrefire Rifle Accuracy - Creating And Maintaining It".
Written by one of Australia's best Gunsmiths, Mr W (Bill) Hambly-Clark Jnr
Grizzly H8396 Chambering Championship Match Barrel
Download: Advanced Gunsmithing Book (PDF)
By Rob on November 14, 2009
"Here’s a free book about gunsmithing that you can download as a 40MB PDF file. It’s Advanced Gunsmithing by W. F. Vicery and it was published in 1940.
It’s an old book but I think you may still find it useful and interesting, even if you don’t own a gun, because it describes how to use many of the same machine shop tools and techniques that we’re still using today. I’ve looked at even older books and have been amazed at how little things have changed in the last 100 years, aside from obvious things like the development of carbide cutting tools, EDM and automated (CNC) machines."
Chambering a factory Remington action
Last edited by rxs0; 12-29-2013 at 02:01 PM.rxs0
11-19-2013, 04:38 PM #69
Chamber Reamer Design
Setting Up Dummy Round and Determining Freebore Length and Diameter
Figuring free bore
Figuring free bore
For a close reference, seat the bullet to your desire position in a case, lock a calipers at bore diameter and slide the seated bullet into the caliper jaws (it will stop on the ogive at bore diameter). Then with a second calipers measure from the case-head to the caliper jaws. Compute out the desired case-length of a reamer and subtract that from your measurement. This will give you a ballpark spec for your desired lead/throat.
"What Donavan is talking about is how getting a starting point when designing a new reamer. I usually set my calipers .001" under bullet size. Scribe a ring at the junction of the ogive and body. Seat the bullet to the OAL length I want. Then measure from the base of the case to that ring. That has always gotten me within .010" of the OAL length I wanted. If magazine length is a factor I always error on the short side about .015". Determining an exisiting barrel's freebore is about impossible as you know none of the other dimensions, being OAL case length and few others. But you can get come up with a number from the base of the case to ogive/body junction on the bullet."
[I have a similar technique to mark the ogive-bearing surface junction (also known as the bullet shoulder) on VLD bullets. I use a Sinclair comparator insert of the appropriate size to mark the ogive-bearing surface junction. For .338 Lapua Magnum, use the .33 insert. For the .308 Winchester, use the .30 insert. I insert the bullet into the comparator and gently rotate the bullet inside the comparator to inscribe a ring at the ogive-bearing surface junction.
Then insert the marked bullet into a brass case with the neck loosened just enough to hold the bullet snug. Adjust your bullet to the desired length. It is generally a good idea to position the back end of the bearing surface-boat tail junction just in front of the neck-shoulder junction of your case to avoid inconsistent tension from a case "donut". This will also give you greater case capacity. You can then measure from the base of the case to the inscribed ring (the shoulder) on the bullet to get the cartridge base to ogive (CTBO) and from the end of the case neck to the inscribed ring on the bullet shoulder to get your freebore measurement. The results are very comparable to the technique above.]
Chambering the 6BR and 6 Dasher - The right reamer makes all the difference -- Dave Kiff
Chambering the 6BR and 6 Dasher
"First and foremost, we can give you a reamer with the throat set ideally from your dummy round, with freebore measured from the bullet ogive.
For the 100-107gr VLDs, a .115" -.120" freebore will allow you to get the base of the bullet up out of the doughnut area. This will save you lots of aggravation over the life of the barrel."
[By seating the bullet in front of the "donut" zone at the shoulder-neck junction, you avoid inconsistent neck tension that the "donut" can apply to the bullet.]
"I like about half of the boat-tail of a VLD bullet hanging out of the neck below the junction with the case shoulder."
James A. Boatright, Well Guided Bullet
"Most people hate dealing with the brass ridge or "doughnut" that can build up at the neck-shoulder junction. This interferes with bullet seating and is a pain in the behind to eliminate. By setting the freebore so the bottom of the bearing surface,max diam. bullet shank) is .050"+ above the doughnut zone, you can pretty much ignore it."
How to determine freebore for a reamer
How to determine freebore for a reamer [Archive] - Benchrest Central Forums
"You can get a close approximation by taking a 1" micrometer and setting it to .001" smaller than bullet diameter. Slide it down the seated bullet and then measure from the end of the case neck to where the micrometer stops."
The way I determine freebore length is to seat a bullet where you want it. Take a micrometer and set it at .001" smaller than bullet diameter, slide the mike down the seated bullet and then measure from the end of the neck to where the front edge of the micrometer stops on the bullet. That will be what I specify for the freebore length.
Determining Reamer Freebore
determining reamer freebore [Archive] - Benchrest Central Forums
You may be right. Last time I talked to Kiff about this he said that its easiest to think of the freebore as a measurement from the boltface.
Seat the bullet in the case to the length you want it seated, ie where is the boattail or flatbase in the neck. open calipers to the size of the bore, and make a mark (scratch) on the bullet then measure from the base of the cartridge.
Kiff and JGS show their reamer prints with the freebore measurement from the base."
Bullet seating depth?
There is a pretty simple way to determine how much freebore to have built into the reamer. First size a case and trim to length. Measure the case to see how much under maximum length you are and remember that number.
Take the longest bullet that you plan to use and seat it into the case to where the boattail/body junction of the bullet is approximately .020-.030 above the neck/shoulder junction of the case.
Then take a magic marker and color the bullet. Next, set your calipers @ .242 [in general, set your calipers .001" under bullet diameter] and while holding the round perpendicular to the jaws, rotate the round gently to scribe a line around the bullet.
Now measure the distance from the scribed line to the mouth of the case, and subtract the amount that the case was under maximum length and that number is the freebore you need.
If you wish to do so, scribe the line on the shortest bullet without seating, and measure from that line to the base of the bullet's bearing surface, and subtract the freebore number. The remainder is the amount that will be in the case neck for that bullet. This number may vary some depending on the difference in ogive shape of the 2 bullets if there is any, but it will be fairly close and give you a pretty good idea of what you will have.
Next step.....call Dave Kiff @ Pacific Tool and order your reamer.
.30-06 chamber reamer help
"From experience don't get too tight with the freebore diameter. I spent the last week getting carbon out of a barrel that restricted the freebore to the point of causing pressure problems. At one time I went .0005" over nominal bullet diameter but that gets you in trouble as not all bullets are dead on size wise. I go .001" to .002" over depending caliber. The more volume the case has the larger I go."
Freebore Diameter Question
Chamber Throats 101
"Chamber Throats 101
I suggest you keep this, copy it, and pass it on.
First, consider what happens to that perfect (as perfect as the bullet makers make 'em), shiny bullet when you pull the trigger. It leaves the case, meets the rifling at the nose end of the bullet, and the rifling engrave into the bullet as it passes down the barrel. While the nose of the bullet centers itself in the tapered ends (leade) of the rifling, the butt end of the bullet is centered only as completely as the tolerances of the cylindrical section (if there is one) of the throat and the chamber neck allow.
In essence the throat is like a forming die in as much as the bullet takes on a different shape than it had when it left the manufacturer's plant, or your cast bullet mold and sizer. It is assumed, naturally, that the bullet was made in precision, close tolerance forming dies where tolerances are kept down to the 1/10ths of a thousandth.
The forming die in your barrel's chamber, the throat, is the only dimension in the chamber that allows being held to extremely close tolerances, simply because the bullet is the only component in the system that is held to very close tolerances.
What Kind of Tolerances Are Typically in Chambers and Throats?
Typical reamers from the reamer companies, one in particular, as standard are .001" larger than bullet diameter for that given caliber. Back when when I was still buying reamers, I would always pay the extra fare for them to take their throat reamer off the shelf back to the grinder and spin usually .001" off the reamer's diameter to get it down to within a 10th or so of bullet dia. for the given caliber.
SAAMI specs. for chamber throats are commonly .001" larger than bullet size, while some are as much as .005" larger than the bullet. No Joke!
What is a shot out barrel? One that has had a lot of rounds run through it, eroding the throat. Did the throat get smaller in diameter? No, it got larger, enough larger that it no longer guides and supports the bullet as it engraves into the rifling.
It allows the base of the bullet to deviate off the axis of the bore and go into the rifling at random angles, ie., cockeyed, distorting the bullet and throwing it out of balance. Remember, some bullets are spinning at over 200, 000 (yep, count the zeroes) RPM. You know what a little imbalance does to a tire on your car, and it sure isn't spinning anything like this!
The Effects of Bullet "Cant" on Accuracy
Harold Vaughn in his book, Rifle Accuracy Facts, studied the effects of bullet "cant" extensively and verified that how the bullet enters the rifling has a very dramatic and predictable effect on accuracy. This is excellent reading by a foremost and nationally recognized ballistics scientist..... not a "magazine expert" who long ago sold his soul to magazine advertisers and can't tell the truth for fear of offending an advertiser.
Harold also discusses throat diameter and alignment with the bore and states that nearly every factory chamber he has studied was deficient in this regard. What I find most interesting is that I learned this by hands on experience only, but as a scientist Harold put the hard numbers to the experiments he performed and validates what I preach about chamber throats. Contact Precision Shooting Magazine for a copy, or email me.
What about the chamber neck helping guide the bullet? Chamber necks, due to variations in brass thickness, usually have to have something on the order of at least .003" clearance to be reasonably safe-----we're not talking about turning case necks to match tight necked chambers, another story. Typical neck clearances are more like .005 to .007," so the chamber neck and case neck really can't do anything positive. They can hold the base of the bullet pointed in the general direction, but the forces exerted on the bullet are far greater than a .012-.015" thick brass case neck can overcome!
Only the steel in the chamber throat can positively align the bullet, yet with the tolerances you typically find in most all factory barrels and the majority of custom barrels chambered with off-the-shelf reamers the throat will be substantially larger than bullet diameter-----------the same condition as a shot out barrel!
Unless you specify throat diameter, much of the time you are buying a barrel that is to a significant degree "shot out" before you fire the first shot through it.
New reamers will likely be the worst, older reamers that have the throat section worn down will be closer to size.
Stop and think about this. You read all kinds of stuff about seating depth, overall cartridge length, seating the bullet into the rifling, or backed off so many thousandths from the rifling, but tell me this, how many times have you read or heard anything about THROAT DIAMETER ?????? I don't waste much time reading magazines any more. Maybe times have changed, but I have seen throat diameter mentioned only a very few times in all my 52 years, 47 of which reading magazines.
(I co-authored the chapter on chamber throats in the 1995 Precision Shooting Annual. In that same publication was a chapter about barrel lapping in which the author MONITORED THE GROWTH OF THE THROAT DIAMETER in the process of fire lapping his barrel. If your throat is too large to start with and you fire lap the barrel, you WILL end up with a still larger throat DIAMETER. I want you to burn DIAMETER into your mind. Give second thoughts to firelapping a barrel without rechambering it to a longer cartridge to get into fresh rifling with a new throat.)
I take all of this into account, when I rechamber a barrel and use techniques and tolerances that give the bullet its best opportunity to slip straight down the tube with the least distortion.
Ok, So what do you have in any given barrel? Sit tight. Follow along. I want to guide you into a mindset that will open doors for you. It will reveal some of the mysteries of the chamber throat.
When you get done with reading this, you will know what you are looking at when you peer down the breech end of your barrels.
Contenders and Encores are great for looking into. With the barrel off the frame you don't have to look very far into the chamber to see the rifling. And you can readily roll it around and examine the circumferences of the various cuts at the neck and throat.
Go pick up a barrel. Larger bore sizes are better to start with, easier to see details. You need a light source, but not too much light. In a well lighted room, looking through the barrel at a piece of white paper works very well.
Ok. You are looking down into the chamber, looking right at the ends of the rifling. Between you and the rifling is a big dark hole. Between the big dark hole and the rifling is the throat. It is the area the same as the grooves in the barrel, minus the rifling. The throat is merely the area in the barrel where the rifling are cut away so the bullet can stick out of the case.
In case you picked up a .22 Long Rifle, technically .22 LR does not have a throat since the bullet is the same approx. dia. as the brass case, thus the chamber is cut the same diameter all the way from the rim to a point past the bullet. This diameter, by the way, will be anywhere from .001" to .008" larger than bullet diameter!
You can check for these basic elements:
1) Relative length of the throat
2) The geometry of the throat
3) The DIAMETER of the throat, relative to the groove diameter of the barrel
4) The alignment of the throat with the bore, or more correctly the grooves of the barrel.
Quickly, you can see if the throat looks long compared to the throat in other barrels, or if it is short. Some are so short as to be virtually non-existent, but rather a chamfer on the ends of the rifling.
Geometry of the throat. Is it a cylinder where the riflings are cut away, or is it a cone. Most of the more recent factory barrels in .357 Mag, .357 Maximum, and .44 Magnum have a cone approximately .4" long. If you look down the wall of the chamber you can see where it begins to change from chamber wall to a long taper that ends on the tops of the rifling. What you want is a cylinder that will support a significant length of the bullet's shank as it engraves. The only tapered part of the throat should be just on the ends of the rifling.
Remember what I was saying about the base of the bullet? The case mouth can't hold it in alignment, and in the .357's for example, the base of the bullet can move about .012" in any direction off the centerline of the barrel. So what does it do when it meets the rifling? It has every chance in the world to go in cockeyed.
Ok, now we're getting down to the more critical part. Look between the ends of the rifling. If you see a line connecting the ends of the rifling, it means that the throat portion of the reamer was larger than the groove diameter of the barrel, and this diameter can be a thousandth or more larger than bullet diameter. For years the .44 Mag factory barrels had .440" groove diameters! And the eight groove .35 cal. barrels run as small as .356." So you really can't determine the actual diameter of the throat, but you can determine a size relationship between the two.
If you slug the barrel with a dead soft lead slug and mike it, you can get a better idea of the throat diameter. There are other methods to measure it as well, but we won't go into that here. I simply want to point out the relationships you are looking at.
If for example you slug a .30 cal. barrel and it mikes a true .308" diameter, then find a line connecting the ends of the rifling in the throat, think about it, the throat is larger than .308" in diameter.
The ideal is to have the correct groove diameter, .308" in our example, and the rifling cut away with little or no discernable line connecting the ends of the rifling, meaning the throat is matched to the bullet diameter, .308."
You usually will find a line connecting the ends of the rifling. Move the barrel around so that you can follow the entire circumference of this line connecting the ends of the rifling. Does it look the same all the way around? Or is it fainter or non-existent in part of its circumference, and pronounced on the other part.
To the extent it does not appear uniform all the way around, it is off center from the grooves. If it is off center, how does the bullet get a straight shot in?
Barrels that are more difficult to see the throat: .22 Mag, usually a short abrupt cone and most of the .22 centerfires where the short abrupt throats are also larger than groove diameter and hard to see.
If you have any connections at a hospital, get one of their laproscopes and stick it down into the throat area. You'll REALLY be able to see what I have described here. It'll blow you away.
The quality of the throat, based on the 4 criteria I listed earlier, can spell the difference between a barrel that shoots well and one you dump all kinds of money into trying to make it shoot, then "take it on the chin" when you get rid of it hoping the next barrel will be a good one.
There are other factors to look at also, such as the crown, but we are limiting this discussion to just the throat.
If you have a problem barrel, what you find in the throat may determine whether you continue working with it or cut your losses.
Save yourself some money and grief. Start paying close attention to the throat. While a borescope helps a lot, you can do a lot for yourself with the "naked eye" now that you know what you are looking for."
Chamber and Reamer
Determining Throat Angle
"A throat with an overly abrupt taper can also cause bullet deformation. Just how this deformation takes place is a guess, but it most likely due to a very slight amount of in-bore canting. This will cause a center of gravity offset from the bore center line, which can cause dispersion. We minimize these effects by cutting the chamber and throat concentric with the bore and we reduce the slope of the throat to about one half of standard throats."
Harold R. Vaughn, Rifle Accuracy Facts
"From experience, good and bad I never go past 2 degrees."
"We normally go with a 1.5 degree lead angle, unless the customer wants something different."
Chambering the 6BR and 6 Dasher
[Use 1 degree 30 minutes (1.5 degrees) for .338 LM, 300 Win Mag, and .308 Winchester reamers.]
"The parameter that most affects accuracy is the leade angle and 1½° seems close to ideal. It is also desirable to have a close case fit in the chamber, tight freebore to bullet diameter fit, and the right freebore length for your bullet characteristics vs. seating depth.
Your chamber should have ~.002 diametral clearance at both the case shoulder and body and your sizing die should be able to return it to that condition. Fortunately, a lot of this has already been determined. The only things I usually need to tell Dave Kiff are: cartridge, brass type, freebore length and neck diameter. Otherwise, PT&G match reamers are near perfect. You could also load a dummy cartridge and send it with desired neck clearance. That would accomplish all of the above.
Decide whether you want turned necks or no-turn. Determine the neck wall thickness of the brass you intend to use (they vary). Determine the diametral clearance you want. I use .004-005" for .308. Measure the bullets you will use. They vary a little. Add it all up. That is the chamber dimension.
.004" Diametral clearance
.014" neck wall thickness (2X)
.0005" for carbon
My tactical .308 has a Ø.342" neck to allow for some variation in factory ammo, if necessary. I think that most Palma chambers are ~Ø.343".
Your bullet choice will determine the freebore length. I size the freebore to allow bullet seating so that the shank (bearing surface) is just forward of the neck-shoulder junction. You could also specify the leade angle but 1½° is the overwhelming choice. There is also some body diameter variation based upon the brass manufacturer. Lapua and Norma tend to be larger in the body than Winchester or Remington, for instance. Other than those, chambers are fairly standard. Any of the reamer grinders can assist you with these parameters. I have found Dave Kiff at PT&G very helpful and I'm not alone in that opinion."
"This is what I would do. First I would see if I could locate some high mileage brass that was at the end of its useful life, having been sized and fired numerous times so as to be work hardened to the probable maximum. This brass will have appreciably more spring back than new brass, and will be the basis of a worst case sizing situation. Next I would purchase a bushing FL die, and size the cases so that they have a .002 bump from their fired shoulder to head length. (At this point, it is not important that the case "headspace" be in reference to any standard or the rifle to be built.) Next I would carefully measure the sized cases, and using the largest one, spec the body dimensions of the reamer for .002 clearance .200 from the head, and half that much at the shoulder (diameter). For the neck diameter, I would do a clean up turn on some new brass and spec the neck diameter to give .003 clearance on a loaded round, and in reality I would probably turn necks a little thinner so as to have a clearance of .005. Lots of knowledgeable shooters have figured out that more clearance works better, starting with around .003, or a little less at 6mm, and increasing as the caliber gets larger.....something about a cleaner bullet release. With the body diameters and neck diameter settled, I would make up some loaded rounds with my preferred bullets. loaded to the length that I wanted so that Dave could put them on the optical comparitor to come up with an appropriate throat length so that I can load all the way to a soft seat if I wanted, without any interference problems, and with enough bullet in the case necks. The other thing that I would pay some attention to would be freebore diameter, which I would spec. at .0003 over the measured maximum diameter of the largest diameter bullet that I planned on shooting."
"From my experience when I changed,in a 7'08) from a 3 degree lead to a 1 1/2 degree lead I got a little more than 100 fps increase in velocity with the same pressure signs. This was the same barrel and same components and the bullet was seated into the rifleing. The more easily the projectiles transition into the rifleing the less distortion would seem plausible to me."
There has been much hullabaloo about reamer design over the years I've been designing them; first one in 1980 for an XP-100 used in the pistol silhouette game
BPCR Match Reamer Design Issues by Dan T
"There has been much cussing and dis-cussing concerning reamer design over the years I've been designing them. The first was designed in 1980 for an XP-100 used in the pistol silhouette game. I still have that JGS wildcat beauty based on RWS 5.6 x 50 brass. Can you say 7-TCU on steroids?
I've put this reamer primer together as a result of seeing too many friends spend good money, time and effort to have a top quality BPCR built only to have it all for naught due to an inappropriate chamber for top-notch match accuracy.
Most of the hubbub was and still is focused on the chamber's front-end: case-stop step-down, freebore and leade angle. For those of you not familiar with those terms, here is a picture as one is said to be worth a 1,000 words.
Reamer/Chamber Front-end Diagram
Much has also been made of chamber-body design. But, it is trivial in my opinion, as well as from experience, compared to the chamber's front-end. For the chamber body we just want a snug brass fit that does not interfere with round loading or case extraction and at the same time does not contribute to out-of-alignment issues when a round is chambered. There is, however, one area to focus on, especially for BPCR, and that is designing the chamber for the brass to be used given the range of original chamber dimensions and reloading dies for a given cartridge, can you say, no SAMMI spec? Simple, no? So, let's get to the meat of the matter.
The design parameters concerning front-end chamber specs focus on the three above mentioned chamber sections:
Case-stop Step-down: Angle, starting diameter & ending diameter
Freebore: Length and diameter, cylindrical or tapered
Leade angle: Angle and starting diameter, ending diameter is bore diameter
Let's address each design parameter in turn and then put the whole package together by addressing what it is we should be trying to accomplish with front-end reamer design.
First, let's discuss the case-stop step-down. It is the transition from the chamber's neck diameter down to either the freebore start or leade angle start. Not too much to discuss except that some BPCR reamers out there have only a case-stop step-down at a shallow angle that acts like a leade. It starts at the chamber-neck diameter and ends at the barrel's bore diameter; not my choice for a top performing match chamber as there is way to much slop and bullet bump-up that must be squeezed-down as the bullet hits the bore/groove diameters. From research to date, it seems that style of reamer was used to "butcher" the paper patch match chambers of original rifles and have somehow come to be accepted as match chambers in this day and age. That is unfortunate, to say the least. This discussion is focused on match chambers, not hunting or military; which have different optimization focuses. I believe the straight, shallow taper from full chamber-neck diameter down to barrel-bore diameter contributes to increased base distortion and contributes little to better bullet-to-bore alignment. And, since the bullet's base edge is the "steering" part of the bullet that can't possibly be an accuracy enhancer. For a hunting or military chamber this design might be appropriate though.
In my mind, minimizing the distance between the chamber's neck-diameter and the barrel's bore/groove diameters will help improve the bullet's base-edge symmetry because there will be a minimum of bullet bump-up that must be swaged down again, and never symmetrically, I might add, as the bullet enters the barrel's bore/groove. It seems we want the bullet to enter into the bore/groove diameters with minimum distortion, especially on the base edge. My current designs have a 45 degree angle from the chamber-neck diameter to the beginning of the leade angle. That typically means there is only about 0.023" of unsupported bullet before the leade angle begins. With 20-1 alloy my guess is that not much bump-up occurs in that narrow gap, a good thing for the bullet's base.
The second area of discussion concerning the chamber's front-end has to do with freebore. Freebore is typically a cylindrical, but sometimes tapered, section that is barrel-groove diameter or slightly larger. If there is freebore in the chamber design the back of it is where the case-stop step-down ends. The front of the freebore is where the leade angle starts. Most freebores are from about 0.050" all the way up to 0.500" long. Most are in the 0.150" range. For match cartridges that are a bit short on case capacity, like the 35-40 Maynard, a freebore can add a little more powder capacity due to being able to seat the bullet out further. But, at this time I'm inclined to say that a better strategy is to design a bullet that seats out into the bore for increased powder capacity. Some also call this "throating" the chamber and is often done after the barrel has been chambered, especially by bench rest shooters shooting jacketed bullets and smokeless powder. After working with various freebore configurations over the years I no longer included them in typical BPCR match chamber designs. That being said, it should also be stated that front-end chamber design and bullet design go hand-in-hand. Most of my current bullet designs are specified so that they seat substantially into the bore for enhanced bullet-to-bore alignment.
The final discussion point is about leade angle, a much debated design parameter. I will admit to going from 1/2 degree all the way to 3 degrees per side for grease-grooved and grease-grooveless bullets. Paper Patched chamber design is another discussion for now. After numerous reamers and much testing I've settled on 3 degrees per side, 6 degrees included to support the best possible bullet-to-bore alignment for the current crop of Paul Jones bullets I've been designing and Paul and David have been making molds for.
Now for the piece de resistance; addressing the whole front-end design package as a single entity by describing what it is we should be trying to accomplish with front-end reamer design. That design goal is; the best bullet-to-bore alignment possible with minimum bullet distortion especially on the base edge.
Some of you might ask, "How can we determine if a design accomplishes said goal?" Well, my friends, that is so simple you will fall off you computer chair when I tell you.
So, here it is. Make a dummy round (brass and bullet only) for your favorite load. Next, measure the bullet roll-out when the case neck is supported and the dial indicator is just behind the tip of the bullet. Write down the roll-out. Now, chamber the round and then carefully extract it. Measure the roll-out again. Is there any reduction in roll-out? If not, either your loading OAL is not what it should be or your chamber does not enhance bullet-to-bore alignment. For chambers and bullets currently in use, if a dummy round has its bullet purposely seated to create 10 thou roll-out; after chambering said round the roll-out will be reduced to between 2 and 3 thou. It's just that simple.
I guess one last issue should be discussed, chamber-neck diameter. For match chambers, "tight" necks seem to produce the best accuracy and they certainly are easier on brass due to reduced expansion and contraction every time the brass is subjected to the high pressures generated when the powder ignites. Current reamer designs allow for not neck-tuning the brass. But, slight neck-turning (just enough to remove high spots) to improve case-neck thickness consistency for more even bullet release can be done with no deleterious affects. The current design rule is simple: loaded round plus 1 to 1.5 thousandths clearance per side, 2 to 3 thousandths included. Also, the chamber neck's are cylindrical so the bullet has enhanced support as it starts its journey from case to target. One final issue to consider, the tighter the cartridge fit in the chamber-neck area, the less the bullet can bump-up as a result of its initial whack on the base from the rapid rise in pressure. From research to date, match chambers from the BPCR era were very tight and top marksmen were meticulous about their brass quality.
Happy pondering; think "Tight and well supported with enhanced concentricity from case to bore for our meticulously hand-cast bullets." Now that I think about it the true purpose of a BPCR match chamber is to deliver the bullet into the bore with minimum distortion and perfect alignment."
Case-Stop Step Down
[Case-stop step-down, use 45 degrees for .338 LM, 300 Win Mag, and .308 Winchester reamers.]
"I also specify chamber over-all-length at .010" longer than max case length."
"I would load at least 20 rounds and measure them all twice at 90 degrees to the first measure to the 1/10th of a thou, and add 0.003 to the largest dimension you get. If you end up in no man's land split between even thou, then round up rather than down."
"Between the end of the case neck and the bottom of the angled transition to the freebore, is an area where powder fouling can build up. If shorter cases are followed by longer ones, the longer ones are forced over the thickness of the fouling that was left in front of the shorter ones, crimping th e case mouth slightly. This points to the need for frequent trimming, and close control of shoulder bump. Additionally the corner that is formed at the larger diameter point of the angled transition is hard to clean, because brush bristles are bent by the smaller freebore diameter so that they miss the corner. IMO a good deal of this can be avoided by trimming for more clearance to the end of the chamber, which does not cause accuracy problems, and is only an issue if bullet and throat length combine to create a situation where there is less than the desired amount of bullet shank in the case neck. In the past, I thought that keeping this gap to a minimum was important. I have since learned better. (Search for Jack Neary on Youtube and watch all six segments.)
Getting to the carbon ring, what I have seen in a bore scope is a deposit at the very start of the freebore. This material is not the same as easier to remove powder fouling, and once it gets a foothold, generally requires the use of one of the abrasive cleaners too remove it. Not all barrels form carbon rings to the same degree, and certainly there are differences between powders. Sometimes the most accurate powder may not give the easiest to clean bore, but for competiton, unless the fouling becomes an accuracy problem in fewer shots than are allowed between cleanings, this is not an issue. On the other hand, for something like varmint shooting, a powder that gives good accuracy measures easily, and is relatively clean burning is probably a better choice than one that gives slightly better accuracy and requires more frequent cleaning."
Why You Will Not Get Accurate Dies If You Use Your Chamber Reamer
Chamber Reamer Myths | Reloading Dies For A Custom Fit
Voyeur's Guide to Barrel Chambering
Voyeur?s Guide to Barrel Chambering On Rifleman?s Journal « Daily Bulletin
ELR Resources Chamber Reamer Library
Information - Cartridges
.338 Lapua Magnum Development
The Well Guided Bullet
An Introduction to Rifle Chambers
An Introduction to Rifle Chambers | Bison Ballistics
SAAMI | Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute
300WSM Reamer Design
The .300 WSM — Next Big Thing in F-Open Competition?
By Steve Blair
The specs of the front end (neck, leade, and throat) can be used in the design of the 300WM.
I shoot 230 Hybrids with a .280" freebore and Ø.337" neck for .012" case neck. I recommend .200-.210" freebore and .339-.340" neck for 215 Hybrids with .013" case neck thickness. My Norma brass is fully turned at .013" case neck. Regardless any other factor, use a 1.5° leade angle.
Steve Blair's 300 WSM Match Reamer for 230 gr Berger Hybrid bullets and Norma brass
"Leade angle should be 1½°. My reamer is a PT&G .300 WSM Match with Ø.337" neck and .280" freebore. The feebore is solely for Berger 230 grain Hybrids."
"After the first firing, and assuming that the headspace is sized correctly (.001-.002"), there should be no case stretch. My .284 Shehane cases, also with 35° shoulder, do not stretch. My Warner Tool sizing die sizes the body .0015" and I have it shimmed to push the shoulder .0015-.002 back. My Norma brass is Ø.5525" at the body base and that is a pretty close fit to the chamber. Winchester brass is a little smaller. If the chamber is too small, the "Dreaded Click of Death®" will result unless custom sizing dies are used.
You will see on the SAAMI print that all chamber dimensions are nominal +.002". The nominal body diameter is Ø.5563 at the base, the same as my reamer. It is a minimum chamber.
I run the Shehane at comparable pressures to those of the WSM and get 5-8 loadings before primer pockets are too loose to use. When I buy a new barrel, I determine the largest lot size I will need within the barrel's anticipated life. For the .300 WSM, that would be 400 rounds to shoot the Berger SW Nationals and the National Championship. I acquire and prep the cases, which are enough to burn out the barrel before they are consumed. I expect about 1400-1600 rounds from the barrel using H1000 or IMR 7828 SSC, maybe a little less with H4831 SC.
BTW, here is the link to the .300 WSM. The lower drawing is, of course, the chamber."
300 WSM reamer spec?
« Reply #10 on: 08:57 AM, 12/04/12 »
From a 34" barrel, I expect to see ~2950 fps with either H1000 or IMR 7828 SSC, H4831 SC ~2900.
300 WSM Freebore
Last edited by rxs0; 02-19-2014 at 10:35 AM.rxs0
12-04-2013, 09:41 PM #70
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Christensen Carbon R8 and R93
The carbon fiber reinforced polymer is an extremely strong and light weight substance which is used extensively in the manufacturing of high end sports equipment, racing cars, airplanes, etc.
The Carbon Graphite has high density, rapidly dissipates heat, does not expand with heat and is:
- 3 to 4 times stronger than steel
- 4 to 5 times stiffer than steel
- 5 to 6 times lighter than steel
The carbon barrel we manufacture consists of a high quality steel barrel liner wrapped in radial and axial layers of carbon graphite fiber.
The carbon barrel is light, rigid and quickly dissipates heat; resulting in longevity, durability and successive shot accuracy.
The carbon barrel has no built in residual stresses, and its accuracy is not affected by temperature.
It shoot straight – hot or cold and last 25% longer than steel barrel.
The carbon stock is a light weight stock made of carbon graphite with rigidity and stability of a bench rest stock.
It maintains its shape in cold, hot and humid conditions. It is scratch proof and is not damaged in extreme hunting conditions.
The carbon stock stiffness reduces the recoil shock by more than 30% in comparison with wood or synthetic stocks.
It is non-corrosive and requires no maintenance.
The carbon rifle is very comfortable to carry and shoot.
It weighs about 2.5 kg without scope and due to high density of the carbon graphite and its structural design it produces very little recoil even with ultra magnum calibers .
All of our carbon rifles are delivered with a removable muzzle break to achieve tight grouping on long distance shots and reduce muzzle lift for quick follow up shots.
The Carbon R8 with Carbon Stock and steel barrel
The Carbon R8 is available in all R8 calibers with your choice of 17, 19 or 22 mm steel barrel. The Carbon R8 in Standard caliber weighs 2,820 grams and is 101 cm long.
The Carbon R8 is 600 grams lighter and has 30% less recoil due to the high density of carbon graphite and the structural design of our Carbon Stock.
The Carbon R8 carbon stock is scratch proof, maintains its form in all weather conditions and requires no maintenance. Its performance is comparable with a heavy bench-rest stock.
Available in two models:
Carbon R8; Black receiver with R8 labeled in gold color on receiver.
Carbon R8 Luxus; Silver or Black color Receiver with Carbon Side Plates.
Action: Blaser R8 straight pull with interchangeable Bolt head, Right or Left handed
Stock: Carbon Graphite with Receiver and Magazine/Trigger assembly, Right or Left handed
Barrel: Interchangeable in Steel with open sites – Ø 17, 19 or 22mm, 52 to 65 cm long depending on caliber
Scope mount: Blaser Saddle mount with 26mm or 30mm rings or Rail mount
Weight, Length: 2.8 kg, overall Rifle Length 101 cm in ST caliber group
The Carbon R8 is available in the following calibers:
Standard (ST):.22-250, .243 Win., 6mm XC, 6.5×55 SE, 6.5×57, 6.5×65 RWS, .270 Win., 7×64, .308 Win., .30-06, 8×57 IS, 8.5×63, 9.3×57, 9.3×62
Medium (ME):6.5×68, 8x68S
Magnum (MA):.257 Wby. Mag., .270 Wby. Mag., .270 WSM, 7 mm Blaser Mag., 7 mm Rem. Mag., .300 Blaser Mag., .300 Win. Mag., .300 Wby. Mag., .300 WSM, .338 Blaser Mag., .338 Win. Mag., .375 Blaser Mag., .375 H&H Mag., .416 Rem. Mag., .458 Lott, .458 Win. Mag.
Jeffery (JE):.500 Jeffery
Christensen produces several models of the Carbon Rifle with traditional and straight-pull actions. Every rifle comes with interchangeable barrels and in break-down configuration.
The hi-tech hunting rifles featuring carbon stocks and barrels are produced in our manufacturing facilities near Geneva, Switzerland.
Christensen carbon rifles are the lightest and the easiest rifles to shoot with, inspiring confidence and providing precision in all hunting conditions.
Last edited by rxs0; 02-23-2014 at 05:12 PM.rxs0
12-05-2013, 04:11 PM #71
OK. Riddle me this, Joker (Rxs0),
Here is a link to a video of Australian snipers doing some training. They are running all their available platforms at the time. Starting at the 17s mark, you will notice a Blaser Tactical 2 in 338 I believe. Under recoil, you will notice an extended box magazine protruding below the rifle body.
Have any idea where or how these mags came to be?
12-05-2013, 04:27 PM #72
"Ex Umbris Venimus"
Last edited by Sigma05; 12-05-2013 at 04:30 PM.
12-05-2013, 08:14 PM #73
I tried to get Blaser in Germany to consider a 6mm / 6.5 / 260 run for the Tactical 2 but it seems to have been ignored.
Usually importing into the US is easy under ITAR. I wonder if I can just score a source down there?
12-05-2013, 08:23 PM #74
They have a 6BR and 6.5x55 version. At least they used to. I'm not a computer guy. The guy that did the design and prototyping, he did it in exchange for automotive stuff I did for him. He went broke and have no clue what he did with all that.
"Ex Umbris Venimus"
12-05-2013, 10:22 PM #75
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Thanks for the post.
I wonder if the current Blaser Tactical magazine can be retrofitted with a longer spring and housing assembly similar to the magazine extension kit used on the Glock magazines with the Kriss system.
Here is a picture showing the extended magazine.
The following photo is compliments of TacticalshirtsREP, see post below.
Another option would be to weld two Blaser magazine springs together and make a custom plastic extension magazine housing.
Last edited by rxs0; 12-26-2013 at 09:05 PM.rxs0
12-06-2013, 05:28 AM #76
"Ex Umbris Venimus"
12-06-2013, 09:32 AM #77
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Blaser Tactical 2 338 Lapua Magnum Magazine Components
I disassembled the magazine by pushing the small plastic round peg in the floor plate hole with a wooden chopstick.
Here are the components.
To increase the magazine capacity, both the flat spring and metallic internal magazine "guide" and slot will have to be extended. The length of this slot limits the upward and downward movement of the upper magazine follower plate. The upper magazine plastic follower plate has (2) small plastic pegs which fit into the metallic guide's slots.
Last edited by rxs0; 12-06-2013 at 02:28 PM.rxs0
12-06-2013, 05:42 PM #78
We toyed around with the idea here in the shop and when we took the Blaser mag apart, we figure it might be too high above my pay-grade. The inner-guide is what's going to kill me.
But…as a hard user, I did like the inner-guide concept for one thing. The Blaser mags are expensive. But magazines tend to go tits-up with feed-lips. Well….I just wonder if I could order a new inner-guide from Austin and be good to go. In essence, the mag body would work forever, unless physically broken.
Sigma, you say "they" have a 6mm and 6.5 version? You referring to the LRS 2 mag from Blaser or the Australian Military has those calibers in the Tactical 2?
12-12-2013, 07:04 AM #79
Well…here is a better image of the Blaser extended mag. By looking at the body markings, I would guess it is a factory product by Blaser. I will go on the record and say, "My Kingdom for this mag!"
12-19-2013, 10:02 PM #80
LRS vs LRS 2
I am looking for some clarification. Currently I am very interested in some of the bullets with a higher BC. 6.5 Swede, 243, etc.
I am casually looking at the LRS line of rifles. I know there is an LRS and LRS 2. And I thought I knew all the particulars, but I swear some of the products listed forsake out there are done so with erroneous information.
I know there is an LRS than can accept all the R93 barrels.
I know there is an LRS 2 that is 338 Lapua only (I think). Is that compatible with the Tac 2? Some dealers list their products to leave one to believe that. I always thought not.
So…is there another LRS or LRS 2 that accepts it's only limited run of barrels and not R93 barrels? Wikipedia leads one to believe that.
Tell you what, the labeling out there for Blaser tactical / LRS is a complete mess in the United States.
12-21-2013, 08:00 AM #81
LRS1, LRS2, LRS2 338 LM, R93, Tactical 2, and R8 Barrel Compatibility
"The LRS and the LRS 2 barrels will fit the R93 as long as it is not the original LRS .338 Lapua Mag. version.
You will need a safari forend for any LRS, LRS 2, or Match barrels to fit on the R93. [Alternatively, you can send the stock back to Blaser for barrel channel widening, free of charge.]
The Tactical 2 has a larger platform with larger barrel diameters that will not fit the LRS, LRS 2, or R93."
BlaserBuds.com Discussion Board ? View topic - LRS vs LRS 2
"The Blaser Tac 2 has a slightly wider/longer chassis than the Blaser LRS to accommodate the .338 Lapua. Otherwise the Blaser LRS 2 and the Blaser Tac 2 are almost identical - the barrels are not Interchangeable between the two.
The LRS has more caliber selections if you like the one gun/switch barrel concept and you can get any LRS barrel drilled and tapped for their pic-rail but this is something you have to request from the dealer."
Differences in the Blaser line?
"The Model R93 LRS 2-.338 Lapua Mag. barrels are not interchangeable with the other calibers."
Blaser LRS 2 Manual, Section 12
R93: compatible with LRS 1 and 2 barrels, requiring Safari stock or widening of the stock barrel channel to accommodate larger diameter barrel (excludes R93 LRS 22-.338 Lapua Mag.)
R93 LRS1: compatible with R93 barrels
R93 LRS 2: compatible with R93 barrels
R93 LRS 2-.338 Lapua Magnum: not compatible with other barrels. This barrel is not compatible with the Tactical 2.
Tactical 2: not compatible with other barrels
R8: not compatible with other barrels, including R93 barrels
Where you able to exchange your Versa-Pod Bipod? Any better?
Last edited by rxs0; 12-21-2013 at 06:49 PM.rxs0
12-24-2013, 11:50 AM #82
Which it isn't. I am a bi-pod loader and understand quite well what I need to do to shoot off this rig.
But I leave the door open that perhaps the issue is "user error" since I didn't design this thing and there is a chance it's me. But after more and more testing, I am starting to firm up my opinion that this bi-pod is no right. I don't know if the legs are not the same length or if the ball-joint of the Versa-Pod is the issue?
But if I put bi-pod square and true on the rifle, and then push forward to load it, the bi-pod takes an angle. Which is really bad. Your rifle will exploit and angle under recoil. Attached is a pic show the bi-pod "loaded" on carpet. The only way I could document it without help from a second person taking a photo.
Note: I am NOT turning this bi-pod or twisting it in anyway. This is straight forward under "load".
The legs are even when closed. The only way to tell if it's legs that are screwed up at this point is to take the bi-pod apart.
12-24-2013, 11:53 AM #83
And thanks for the clarification on the LRS stuff. I am seriously looking at an LRS 2 for 6mm-ish bullets over getting a GRS stock for my R8. What you posted is dead on what I new, but I'll be damned if some the dealers don't have their $#!t all F'ed description wise.
01-21-2014, 02:43 PM #84
7.5 Swiss GP 11
Anybody have any experience with this round in a Blaser? R93 or R8?
If so, can you share your experiences?
I have heard some competition shooters in Europe run the 7.5 since the GP 11 is supposedly loaded to match quality?
If that is true, I am loving the prices I am seeing for 7.5 Swiss in the US.
Gets me to thinking.
02-09-2014, 01:52 PM #85
Gunbot Search for 7.5x55 Swiss (GP11) Ammo
GunBot 75swiss rifle ammo
7.5x55 Swiss (GP11) - Terminal Ballistics Research
Berdan to Boxer Primer Pocket Conversion Method
Berdan to Boxer Conversion Method in Handloading Forum
7.5 Swiss/R93 Blaser
TTR, any luck with this topic? Any new projects?
Last edited by rxs0; 02-09-2014 at 02:28 PM.rxs0
02-09-2014, 03:58 PM #86
02-23-2014, 04:59 PM #87
Blaser Tactical 2 (LRS 2, R93, R8) Loads
Mauser M03 Modular Rifle System
I thought you might be interested in M03 modular rifle made by Mauser. The modular rifle system has interchangeable barrels similar in design to the Blaser system. This is not surprising since both companies are owned by the same company (German investors Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier). Blaser, Mauser, and Sauer rifles are all manufactured in Isny, Germany. See History below.
Mauser M03 Instruction Guide
Available at Eurooptic
M03 Extreme - Mauser M03 Extreme Rifle
Mauser M03 Extreme
Mauser: Die M 03 Extreme
Mauser M03 Match
Mauser: M 03 Match
Mauser M03 Target
Mauser: M 03 Target
Mauser M03 Bolt and Bolt Head Assembly
This system looks like it should allow for tighter headspace when compared to the Blaser system.
Mauser M03 Extras (Barrels, Bolt Heads, Scope Mounts, etc)
Mauser: M 03 Extras
Mauser M03 Brochure
Mauser M03 Barrel Options
Mauser 03 Reviews
Have it Your Way with the Mauser M03 Modular System | The Truth About Guns
Mauser M03 rifle review | Shooting times
Mauser M 03 Part II calibres review | Rifles Reviews | Gunmart
Mauser M0 3 - a rifle for the 21st century
Mauser M03 Forum on Blaser Buds
Mauser M03 Blog
Mauser M03 (LutzMoeller, in German)
Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In 1999, the Mauser civilian gun segment was separated from the military segment and was purchased by the German investors Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier. The Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH (Mauser Hunting Weapons Ltd.) was established with its company base being situated in Isny im Allgäu in southern Germany. Rifles are produced there exclusively for the hunting/sporting sector. Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH resumed the production of the Mauser models M 98 und M 98 Magnum again, according to the original drawings and respective Mauser patents of the Gewehr 98 and Karabiner 98k.
In 2000, Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH and its European sister companies, J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Blaser and Swiss Arms were unified by the German investors Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier under the SIGARMS name.
In 2003, Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH introduced the M 03 hunting/sporting bolt-action rifle.
On October 1, 2007 SIGARMS officially changed its name to SIG SAUER.
The various contemporary Mauser rifle models are produced in Isny im Allgäu, Germany and sold under the brand name Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH (Mauser Huntingweapons Ltd.).
Last edited by rxs0; 02-27-2014 at 09:50 PM.
02-24-2014, 01:45 PM #88
I have to admit, I am seeing A LOT of Mauser / Blaser similarities. If someone really doesn't like the straight-pull design, the Mauser really does a good job filing that void. I do question what kind of repeatable accuracy the Mauser gets when compared to the Blaser because one is adding a tradition receiver into the system.
But damn, it is very cool.
Since we are talking, have to you seen the carbon-fiber receiver / stock options of a Russian Company called Evil Empire? They are doing a precision / F-class / Tactical stock replacement for the R93. I have been talking to them about the possibility of making a mold for an R8.
Since I live in the US, I would need to have them make the stock-only and I would need to install my own R8 receiver.
It's a debate I am having right now. I like the GRS R8 stock, but it has two weaknesses. One, it is wood and I fear under heavy use I could have issues with swelling and the like. But that isn't my main concern. My main concern with the GRS stock is the entire system is not left-hand or off-hand friendly. If I was shooting a match that demanded weak-hand shooting, the GRS produces a less than ideal solution.
Also....would you happen to know if the BOAR R8 stock can accept recoil reducers? And if not, is there a steel-reciever BOAR version of the R8?
02-24-2014, 10:03 PM #89
There is no BOAR with a steel receiver available.
I have a BOAR, however haven't checked whether it will accept a recoil reducer. I was surprised to find out my Pro Success does accept a recoil reducer.
The BOAR is a bit heavier than a standard Pro because of the hardware for the vertical & horizontal adjustment system. I've shot mine with 223, 308 and 300 Wim Mag Match barrels on it and didn't need the recoil reducer even when shooting prone.
I like the BOAR so much I'm going to sell my LRS2, barrels and mags. Plus, I have used the BOAR for big game hunting last season. It's a great all around stock for the R8 system.
I'll check my BOAR and get back to you.If you are in trouble anywhere in the world, an airplane can fly over and drop flowers, but a helicopter can land and save your life. - Igor Sikorsky, 1947
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
02-24-2014, 10:49 PM #90
The Blaser synthetic professional stock can only be configured in either the recoil reduction version or the adjustable comb version, but not both. The reason being is the the metallic hardware of the adjustable comb will not fit in a stock with the recoil reducer or vice versa. The problem is limited space in the stock.
Can you buy a Blaser stripped action?
Should I buy? - Blaser BOAR 308
I am not aware of a steel receiver R8 BOAR stock, just the Safari stock with steel receiver.
Last edited by rxs0; 02-24-2014 at 11:01 PM.rxs0
02-25-2014, 09:06 AM #91
02-25-2014, 09:08 AM #92
02-25-2014, 09:42 AM #93
Upon inspection of the R8 BOAR stock I have actually owned and been using for nearly a year, I have found there is in fact no accommodation for recoil reducer from the factory in the stock as stated above.
However, if one wanted to add weight to the BOAR stock (and I have no intention of doing so as the mechanism itself adds sufficient weight to the stock IMO) there is plenty of room below the adjustable mechanism for the owner to fabricate a weight system into the bottom of the stock behind the butt pad attachment. Blaser has even included an access hole to this area which easily allows inspection and access to this area.
The addition of a weight system there would limit the down movement of the adjustable cheek piece, but not by much.
On my BOAR stock I have marked 2 cheek riser positions for quick reference by scoring the steel riser posts. One each for sitting/standingshooting positions and a higher one for shooting from prone.
With my cheek riser in the lower seated/standing position, the bottom of the posts leaves plenty of clearance to install a weight / recoil reducing system of the owners design.
Just FYI and YMMV.If you are in trouble anywhere in the world, an airplane can fly over and drop flowers, but a helicopter can land and save your life. - Igor Sikorsky, 1947
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.