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Thread: Accurate 1680 in 5.56?

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    Question Accurate 1680 in 5.56?

    Does any one use Accurate 1680 in .223 or 5.56? Also interested in using it in 7.62x39. I have some data on QuickLoad, and it fits the criterion that I want in terms of being in acceptable pressure ranges, and acceptable case capacity/case fill----above 85%. I can't find any data in any of the four Loading Manuals that I have. I wrote to Accurate, and got a pat answer, "attached are our most recent data sheets." There are almost no listings period for 1680, and none in .223 or 7.62x39. Yet, their website blurb about the powder says it is good for some handguns and also for some small rifle cases---I think it even listed 7.62x39 in the blurb.

    Do any of you use this powder in these applications, and if so, would you care to share some starting loads----I will check them against my QuickLoad, and use proper development procedures---?

    Thanks alot,
    Cheers,
    Tim

    "The (Individual) Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed!"
    " I love Americans, because, in the end, they can be counted on to do the right thing, when they have exhausted every other resource," Sir Winston Churchill

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    I thought 1680 was a pistol powder and could be used for subsonic loads in rifles calibers. I was looking a it for 300 blackout subsonic loads. I ams sure someone more learned then me will chime in here.

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    Accurate 1680 is THE powder specifically for 7.62X39MM. Reloading data can be found here: http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/ Click on "VIEW CENTERFIRE METALLIC LOAD GUIDE VERSION 3.5".

    Accurate 1680 is too fast for use in the .223 Remington.

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    As Flight762 said, it's a great powder. So is Bullseye and 231, but like 1680, they're just too fast to give good results in the 223/5.56 case. Drop it down to something slower, such as (depending on bullet weight) N135 or N140, H322, Benchmark or Varget and you'll get much better results.
    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
    (660) 826-3232
    kthomas@nammoinc.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksthomas View Post
    As Flight762 said, it's a great powder. So is Bullseye and 231, but like 1680, they're just too fast to give good results in the 223/5.56 case. Drop it down to something slower, such as (depending on bullet weight) N135 or N140, H322, Benchmark or Varget and you'll get much better results.
    Thanks, I haven't used any yet. I guess I'll just use it in my 7.62x39. I have Varget also, but I was hoping to save that for my hungry M-1 Garand. I guess I'll just have to try to buy more Varget. I do have a good Varget load worked out for the 5.56 also.
    Cheers,
    Tim

    "The (Individual) Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed!"
    " I love Americans, because, in the end, they can be counted on to do the right thing, when they have exhausted every other resource," Sir Winston Churchill

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    Reiterating above sentiments, AA1680 is too fast for the 223. It works great in the 17 Ackley Hornet and revolver cartridges like 460 & 500 S&W.
    I caution you not to decide to use a powder because Quickload will spit out data for it. Please look at burn rate charts and data from the manufacturer before, as mentioned above, using Bullseye in 223.
    For all the successes and knowledge QL can provide it can also make you cry over the loss of a prized firearm just as easily.
    The wind is not your friend.....unless you just farted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoot4fun View Post
    Reiterating above sentiments, AA1680 is too fast for the 223. It works great in the 17 Ackley Hornet and revolver cartridges like 460 & 500 S&W.
    I caution you not to decide to use a powder because Quickload will spit out data for it. Please look at burn rate charts and data from the manufacturer before, as mentioned above, using Bullseye in 223.
    For all the successes and knowledge QL can provide it can also make you cry over the loss of a prized firearm just as easily.
    I agree, that is why I only choose a powder from QuickLoad that I can get data from one of the other printed sources---I have 6 reloading manuals or powder manufacturer data sheets that I confer with.
    I appreciate your input. I was looking, because Accurate said good for small capacity rifle cases---I would class this as one of those, but I guess they don't. Why a 7.62x39 is a small case and a 5.56 isn't, I guess, is one of those mysteries that you just take the word of others (ie. Manufacturers, Reloading Manuals) and figure they are wiser, or have access to better testing equipment than I , and do as they say.
    Cheers,
    Tim

    "The (Individual) Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed!"
    " I love Americans, because, in the end, they can be counted on to do the right thing, when they have exhausted every other resource," Sir Winston Churchill

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    Well, guys, thanks for all the input.
    Scott from Ramshot did get back to me with some data, along with a recommendation of another powder better suited for dual purpose here. Anyway, here is his response:


    Hi Dan,

    I have enclosed some data for you to use. We do not recommend using 1680 in the 5.56, but it will work and will work better with the lighter bullets. In the future if you want one powder for both calibers I would recommend trying Accurate 2200. Accurate 2230, 2460, and 2520 would be more ideal for the 5.56.

    7.62 X 39 mm
    Barrel: 20" ¦ Twist: 1-9.5" ¦ Primer: WIN WLR ¦ Bullet Diameter: 0.311"
    Case: WIN ¦ Max Case Length: 1.528" ¦ Trim Length: 1.518"
    Accurate 1680







    125
    SIERRA
    SPT PH
    24.3
    2,160
    27.0
    2,400
    45,190
    2.165

    Caliber: .223 Remington.
    Barrel length: 24”
    Powder: Accurate – 1680®
    Bullet weight: 55 grains.
    Start load: 17.9 grains (ca 2675 Fps)
    Maximum load: 21.0 grains (ca 3055 Fps).
    Bullet weight: 60 grains.
    Start load: 17.0 grains (ca 2525 Fps)
    Maximum load: 20.0 grains (ca 2900 Fps).

    NOTES:
    It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.
    1. ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.
    2. CAUTION: Beware of double charging if the loading density is below 50% of the available volume.
    Examples:
    Ř Most Handgun caliber/powder combinations as well as
    Ř A-5744 with reduced loads for rifles.
    3. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

    Best Regards
    Scott Ziebarth
    Ramshot.Accurate.Powders
    WesternPowdersInc.Miles City.Montana.
    Hi Dan,

    I have enclosed some data for you to use. We do not recommend using 1680 in the 5.56, but it will work and will work better with the lighter bullets. In the future if you want one powder for both calibers I would recommend trying Accurate 2200. Accurate 2230, 2460, and 2520 would be more ideal for the 5.56.

    7.62 X 39 mm
    Barrel: 20" ¦ Twist: 1-9.5" ¦ Primer: WIN WLR ¦ Bullet Diameter: 0.311"
    Case: WIN ¦ Max Case Length: 1.528" ¦ Trim Length: 1.518"
    Accurate 1680







    125
    SIERRA
    SPT PH
    24.3
    2,160
    27.0
    2,400
    45,190
    2.165

    Caliber: .223 Remington.
    Barrel length: 24”
    Powder: Accurate – 1680®
    Bullet weight: 55 grains.
    Start load: 17.9 grains (ca 2675 Fps)
    Maximum load: 21.0 grains (ca 3055 Fps).
    Bullet weight: 60 grains.
    Start load: 17.0 grains (ca 2525 Fps)
    Maximum load: 20.0 grains (ca 2900 Fps).

    NOTES:
    It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.
    1. ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.
    2. CAUTION: Beware of double charging if the loading density is below 50% of the available volume.
    Examples:
    Ř Most Handgun caliber/powder combinations as well as
    Ř A-5744 with reduced loads for rifles.
    3. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

    Best Regards
    Scott Ziebarth
    Ramshot.Accurate.Powders
    WesternPowdersInc.Miles City.Montana.
    Cheers,
    Tim

    "The (Individual) Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed!"
    " I love Americans, because, in the end, they can be counted on to do the right thing, when they have exhausted every other resource," Sir Winston Churchill

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    It is maybe slightly off topic but a good example of powder selection.
    I once loaded four different calibers with WW748. When I added a 243 to the battery I thought (as it was very close in case dimensions to the other four) that 748 would work well there too. In the old days (no internet yet) a quick search of load books gave me nothing so I called Sierra for some data. The tech said he could fix me right up but then backed up. Their test data showed that their starting and max pressure loads were less than 1 grain apart. How could WW748 be great for 308 and 7mm08 but so very wrong for 243? I never got the answer but it could have been a disaster in the making had I not checked it out.
    The wind is not your friend.....unless you just farted.

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    Same parent case in all three instances, but VERY different expansion ratios, and that's what makes all the difference in the world. Any powder ideally suited for the 7-08 or 308 cases, is going to be a good bit too fast for good results in a 243. There may be some overlap if you play with bullet weights a bit, but for most instances, that's the rule you're going to find.
    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
    (660) 826-3232
    kthomas@nammoinc.com

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    Not a scientist so please explain expansion ratio.
    The wind is not your friend.....unless you just farted.

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    yea thats really fast powder for 223, you could hurt yourself. if you have alot of it go buy a hornet and have some fun

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    Expansion ratio is the ratio of bore and chamnber volume to that of the powder chamber alone. In short, it's how many times that volume can expand within that closed system. Expansion ratio is what determines which powders are appropriate, which are too fast or too slow, and ultimately, what sort of performance you'll get from a given cartridge. Cartridges with very low expansion ratios generally give the highest performance, at the cost of efficiency. Those with very high expansion ratios are generally going to deliver lower overall performance, but will do so with far greater efficiency. The 220 Swift is an example of a cartridge with a very low expansion ration, but which delivers very high performance. The 22 Long Rifle rimfire, very high expansion ration, lower performance, but it delivers this with much greater efficiency.

    Some of the ways in which expansion ratios can be changed are via larger capacity cases (obviously) or lengthening or shortening barrel length. All goes into predicting how much performance you can expect out of a given weapons system.
    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
    (660) 826-3232
    kthomas@nammoinc.com