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Thread: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

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    77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Hello, I'm going to order a box of 500 77 grain .224 SMK's for a RRA varmint I have on order. I have everything else so I figured I'd buy a box of bullets while they're available. I see the non cannelure and the ones with cannelure. Which ones are recommended. I will be loading these to mag length so would the cannelure be best? Just wanted to see which ones are best before I order.

    Thanks,
    Alan

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    no cannelure works for me.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Anyone use these out of 1-8" 24" ar15?? results?? Seems like they're popular.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    shot em in the same RRA...except with 20" barrel...

    good out to 500 for sure.... haven't taken it further
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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    I've taken MK262 MOD1 (cannelure tip) to 700yds effectivly out of an 18" SPR

    I'd say go cannelure, but my opinion is only because the .mil changed from MK262 MOD0 (non-cannelure tip) to MOD1 (cannelure tip).

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Originally Posted By: alan98
    Anyone use these out of 1-8" 24" ar15?? results?? Seems like they're popular.


    Bushy Predator 1-8" 20" here. They do well to 500. Like Wil, haven't tested further.

    I've used non-cannalure for years and cannalure just recently. They both work. If one were doing any 3 gun or tactical comps, the cannalure and a light crimp might provide some mental comfort to the shooter.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    If you plan to crimp them get the cannalure, if no crimp than non-cannalure. I've shot these to 800 with good results, 80SMK is better out at this distance but can run the 77's in a mag.
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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Sierra came out with the cannelure so they could be compliant with spec changes to the Mk 262 ammo. They had the contract, lost it to Nosler when the spec changed to w/cannelure, now came out with their cannelure option and won the contract back.

    If you wanna be "spec", get the cannelure. I've shot thousands upon thousands of 77s without cannelure no crimp and never have had problems with bullets moving. Started shooting them when they came out in like '97. Slung oh 2k+ of them down range in 2008 alone, all precision shooting in an AR, no blasting.

    This stuff is in Mod 1 boxes but loaded with Mod 0 bullets.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    One of the things that the cannelure does is aid in bullet fragmentation upon impact with soft tissue by providing a weak point in the copper jacket. And of course to provide a crimp groove in the bullet. I'd say use the cannelure if you had a choice between the two. I'll also add that I personally am most comfortable when using handloads that ARE crimped when firing auto loading rifles. Just my personal preference.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Alan98,

    You can not go wrong with either of them. I shoot them in hi-power competition out to 600 with no problems. I use both 1/8 and 1/7 twist 20 inch barrels.
    My load for this is reloader 15 24 to 24.5 one rifle I was able to get 24.8 grains with no problems another one showed presure signs, Lake City brass and Federal primers.

    Brian


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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Thanks for all the replies. One more question...Are the Nosler Custom Comps 77 grain comparable to the SMK 77's? I see they're quite a bit cheaper and I assume accuracy is close between the two?

    Thanks again,

    Alan

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Nosler are good bullets

    60 Btip
    25gr benchmark is GTG

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??


    Lee factory crimp die works well on cannelure and non cannelure .

    I have 75bthp with cannelure,didnt know I was getting them with cannelure untill they came it was 4k bulk box,they work real well out to 688 yards thats as far as i have used them as well 77smk non cannelure on with lee factory crimp die. out of my 18" 1-7 ar15

    I have heard of KAABOOMS without cannelure from set back during feeding,never seen one in person I think Boltripper knows about some KAABOOMS..
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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Some of the people I shoot with use the Noslers and I can say from how they shoot that they shoot very good.

    Also a bunch of us are switching to Hornady because of the price on Sierra. I swithched on my .308 to Hornady Amax and do not think I will ever go back to Sierra on the 308 unless they come down in price. Same is being said buy a lot of the people shoot with for the .223 Hornady. I have not made the switch there yet but will in my next purchase.

    Bottom line is the three of them are good compnets that will win from what I have seen.

    Brian

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001
    One of the things that the cannelure does is aid in bullet fragmentation upon impact with soft tissue by providing a weak point in the copper jacket. And of course to provide a crimp groove in the bullet. I'd say use the cannelure if you had a choice between the two. I'll also add that I personally am most comfortable when using handloads that ARE crimped when firing auto loading rifles. Just my personal preference.



    Let us also clarify that aiding in the fragmentation of the bullet was an indirect result... The main purpose of the cannelure is to be used as a crimping groove...as you stated... The rest was just a plus <grin>
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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    This past weekend SYMTEX & I chrono'd some MK262 MOD1 and some BH 77grain Red Box from my MK12 MOD 0 SPR (18" WOA barrel 1/7)...

    3 rounds from each for an avg. of the results:

    MK262 MOD1:
    2830fps
    2826fps
    2836fps

    BH 77gr:
    2687fps
    2658fps
    2648fps

    What I am curious about is if anyone has experience shooting the Fiocchi 77grain and how it stacks up comparitivly. I'l grab a box when I can and get it chroni'd and report back if nobody has tinkered with it themselves.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    I think you need to decide what you intend shooting with this bullet. If you are trying to kill something, then I'd go with the cannilure. The cannilure will aide in fragmentation as mentioned above. If I was just shooting paper or steel, I'd get whatever is cheapest.
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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    No hunting purposes, just long range targets. I ordered some 77 smk, 77 Nosler Custom Comps, and some Hornady 75BTHP's to try. I want to just get one load preferably with a 75-77 grain bullet as this rifle will only be shot long range, no plinking. I was wondering about the cannelure concerning setback from feeding from the mag, but I doubt that is really an issue with these if sized properly.

    Thanks,

    Alan

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    I have shot both the Nosler and the Sierra 77gr and cant tell a difference big enough to justify spending more for the Sierra.

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    I have been using the 77g Noslers in an AR I just finished with an 18 in., 1 in 7 barrel and have been very happy with the results. With 24g of Varget I have been getting about 2750 fps with LC brass and this last weekend had some 1/2 moa vertical and just under 1 moa horizontal groups @ 400 yds with a 5 mph wind blowing left to right. I was tickled with those results out of a new rifle. I shot some of the 69g with less impressive results but have not done much experimenting. I did not have any issues with a lack of crimp.

    Mark

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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    Originally Posted By: _9H
    Sierra came out with the cannelure so they could be compliant with spec changes to the Mk 262 ammo. They had the contract, lost it to Nosler when the spec changed to w/cannelure, now came out with their cannelure option and won the contract back.

    If you wanna be "spec", get the cannelure. I've shot thousands upon thousands of 77s without cannelure no crimp and never have had problems with bullets moving. Started shooting them when they came out in like '97. Slung oh 2k+ of them down range in 2008 alone, all precision shooting in an AR, no blasting.

    This stuff is in Mod 1 boxes but loaded with Mod 0 bullets.



    L, I know ya do a wee bit of shooting here and there so I'd defer to your experience here [img]<>/grin.gif[/img]

    That being said, I'd like to know what you'd recommend for a sizer to get enough NT to hold the suckers in place.

    I just loaded some 55's for my LMT 10.5 and crimped em all with a Lee FCD. Hornady 55's with Cannelure. That being said its an extra step and if I can omit it, makes my life easier.

    Why DID the .mil spec the cannelure?
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    Re: 77 SMK cannelure or not??

    for information:
    http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/hist_mk262.html

    Sierra was asked to produce a bullet cannelured version, but they intially refused.

    Nosler did not have any problems putting a cannelure on their 77 gr bullet. Black Hills Ammunition was approached to make a slightly modified version of these loads for combat use. A cannelure was specified, the bullets were to be crimped, and the load was to be up to military chamber pressures, with maximum safe velocity being desired. The primers were to be crimped and sealed, and of course, overall length had allow for loading in standard magazines.

    The Marines (in conjunction with a large Federal LE agency) did extensive testing of this large experimental batch of BH loaded Nosler 77 gr cannelured OTM's in the Fall of 2002. It offered outstanding terminal performance out to the maximum test distance of 300 yards. They then ordered 1.1 million rounds of cannelured 77 gr OTM's via the existing Mk262 SOCOM contract (which did not specify a manufacturer) administered through Crane. The cannelured 77 gr load was designated Mk262 Mod 1, and the orginal Mk262 was re-designated Mk262 Mod 0.

    According to one observer: "At this point bureaucracy, nepostism, and capitalism converged. Sierra realized they were about to lose a VERY LARGE contract and suddenly they agreed to make the 77 gr SMK with a cannelure. Crane pushed for Sierra to get the contract over Nosler, although the Nosler offered better terminal performance. On the other hand, in all fairness, the Sierra bullet was slightly more accurate out of government test barrels than the Nosler--both shoot nearly the same out of real rifles, such as the by then type classified Mk12 SPR."

    Therefore, while a few hundred-thousand rounds of 77 gr Nosler OTM was manufactured and used primarily for testing, the cannelured 77 gr SMK was used in the the multi-million round contract for the Mk262 Mod 1.

    Recently, Sierra agreed to add a minimal crimp to their bullet, and this has since replaced the Nosler bullet in the current versions of Mk262 Mod1. As of April 2004, Mk 262 Mod1 has seen extensive use in Afghanistan and Iraq, in carbines with barrels as short as 10.5", and has proven to be very effective at ranges that M855 is woefully inadequate from the same weapons. It is also commonly used in the Army's "Special Purpose Rifles" (SPRs), which are accurized 18"-barreled rifles used by soldiers with additional combat marksmanship training in a squad sharp-shooter role.
    Regards,

    Julien

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