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Thread: Africa dangarous game caliber?

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    Africa dangarous game caliber?

    I have a buddy who is going after lions and such in Africa. He has a 375H&H buts wants a larger caliber. Recommendations?
    Thanks
    AIM SMALL.... MISS SMALL

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    Townsend Whelen had a bit to say on Lion Hunting. Perhaps you should look into that.

    Also-

    .35 Whelen: overlooked, misunderstood, vastly underrated

    but don't take their word as law. tis the interwebs after all
    something witty.

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    A 375 H&H Magnum is legal for dangerous game anywhere in Africa where hunting is allowed. It should be quite adequate for lion.

    There are a host of other cartridges suitable for dangerous game so what your friend uses depends in part on how much he wishes to spend and what else he wishes to hunt. For availablilty and reasonable cost (reasonable is a relative term), I think a 458 Lott would be hard to beat. Another factor would be how much recoil your buddy can handle; the recoil of a 375 H&H Magnum is considered reasonable by many while that of a 458 Lott and similar is considered too much by many.

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    There's a multitude of big bores out there. A lot of guys recommend getting something that the ammo is readily available in Africa. 416 Rigby, 458 win mag, 458 Lott, 500 Jeffrey etc. You didn't mention if he's after a bolt gun or a double. Going with a double opens up the Nitro Express category, 450/400 NE, 470 NE, 500 NE, altho some NE cals are available in a bolt gun.
    I don't know if he reloads or not, if so, the line of DG bullets turned out by Cutting Edge are the cats ass. Using their stuff, the 375 will take a thin skinned cat like the lion w/no problems.
    Mikee, who is a member here has taken buff and elephant w/his 416 Rigby and swears by the cartridge, he has a great thread on his hunt here.....

    Africa - Elephants!!!
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    The 375 H&H will do everything he wants with the right bullet choice, which he should discuss with his PH.

    If he really wants something bigger he needs to decide between a bolt and a double gun.

    In a bolt I would probably do a 416 Rigby or 458 Win Mag.

    In a double, either of the above or jump into a 470 Nitro Express or 450/400 N.E.

    For me I'm planning in taking 3 rifles when I eventually get to go:

    300WSM for smaller plains game
    375 H&H for most everything else
    450/400 Nitro if I get the opportunity for Elephant

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    Is 338 rum suitable for africa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 308boltgun View Post
    Is 338 rum suitable for africa?

    It is for plains game, most countries have a minimum of .375 cal and X amount of ft/lbs or joules of muzzle energy for dangerous game. (Big 5) Linky>>>>>

    Minimum caliber requirements for hunting African countries | Hunting in Africa
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    Quote Originally Posted by 308boltgun View Post
    Is 338 rum suitable for africa?
    My PH loves his 338 RUM, but only for non DG critters. I am not into it - too hard to find ammo over there. He is one of the most resourceful guys I know, and I hear him beg for brass and ammo every year.

    LegioX already stated my preferences - look at the muzzle and downrange energy - 416 Rigby matches almost anything out there, even much larger calibers. Couple that with smaller cross section - the penetration is very good. Chamber pressure is much lower than than 416 Ruger or Rem, low enough to use in a double gun.

    Lion hunting? Premium there is hitting it - maybe charging you. SHoot something you are supremely confident with, and that 375 H&H, loaded with TSX would be my #1,2 and 3 choice.

    On the other hand - what does he WANT to buy?

    OME MONTH FROM TODAY - I'LL BE STALKING AGAIN IN THE CAPRIVI!!! OH YEAH!!!!!
    Last edited by MikeeBooshay; 08-01-2013 at 07:09 PM. Reason: added comment
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    Rub it in Mikee, Rub it in.....
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    I've been to Africa several times, hunting dangerous game, as well as everything else except elephant. On lion, I used a 375 H&H with 300 grn Barnes TTSX's, Cape Buffalo, I used a 416 Rem mag, similar to the Rigby and on everything else I have use a 338-378 wby and 338 RUM. I had a blast taking baboons at long distance with the RUM. It all just depend on what you plan on hunting. For med sized plains games a good old 30-06 is fine. For the bigger Eland and Kudu sized animals I would go 338 Cal.

    Just my thoughts
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    Most guides wont let you hunt with anything below 375 for dangerous game.... I did a 375 Ruger.
    No mercy, no prisoners!

    Had 5560 posts pre change with hundreds of good deals done...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by LegioX View Post
    Rub it in Mikee, Rub it in.....
    LX, I will permit you to live vicariously thru me! LOL, I will take as many pictures as my ADD will permit. As the camera queens are not going this time, I will have to show a bit of discipline and remember to shoot pictures as well as bullets.

    I just wish I could bring the night vision with me - I know that would be fun over there!

    Tackleberry, how good, what kind of shooter is your buddy? If you look over the tables ( I like data, I like math, gives me the same answer every time) both the 416 and the 375 are very good out to several hundred yards. If he is thinking plains game at long range, he might want to get a little shooting school under his belt that can show him how to best utilize what he already has. The snap shooting practice at short range, with pop ups and other "challenges", will be invaluable to him over there. And.... when the PH and tracker realize you can shoot, they are very happy. Happy = more fun for you.

    There has been many threads on many forums, if you have to hunt the whole world with one gun, the 375 is probably it. No doubt there are a lot of spare shells for it in Africa, very widespread there.
    “In my house, the guns are loaded, the knives are all sharp and the whiskey is strong.
    Kindly conduct yourself accordingly"

    I'm not saying we ought to kill all the stupid people,
    We merely have to remove warning labels and let nature take it's natural course.

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    The guys I know use mostly 416s with double 475/500 next. Me, it has to be a side by and I would want a Greener 8 bore.

    The guy I know who goes every other year or three or so; 22WMR, 338WM and 475NE.

    I think the 375HH has history, and has and will do the job plus ammo is avail. But being who we are, buying a new rifle for a safari just has to be so.....

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    If there is enough time I would talk to a reputable maker and have a rifle built that is fitted to him. If not a Dakota in a large caliber should be easy to come across. The calibers that come to mind for me are the 416 Rigby, 404 Jeffrey, and 458 Lott or Winchester. With the Lott you can always use the 458 Winchester for 'light' practice rounds and could always find them if his ammo got misplaced by the airport. I would stay away form proprietary cartridges like the Dakota line or similar as ammo might be hard to come by in another country.

    While the bigger rounds like the 505 Gibbs and the 500 Jeffrey are fun to shoot I would also stay away from them because the recoil makes follow up shots a little slower.

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    Thanks guys. I am going to pass this info to him. I think he has the little dick syndrome and wants a gun way too big for what he really needs. I agree with the 375, I love mine and such a wide variety of ammo
    AIM SMALL.... MISS SMALL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry View Post
    Thanks guys. I am going to pass this info to him. I think he has the little dick syndrome and wants a gun way too big for what he really needs. I agree with the 375, I love mine and such a wide variety of ammo
    Man I am really in trouble now! All I want is the 375, and I already have a tiny needle prick!!! LOL! That was pretty funny Tackleberry!

    I shot 25 rounds of 375 from a bench this morning - too low, and couldn't sit up high enough to take the recoil thru the torso, mainly just got behind it and pushed into it. Testing out some new ammo and loads, by round 20, I was glad to be getting to the end of it, if you have a 375 already, just serve your buddy up 20 rounds at one sitting, he may change his mind.
    “In my house, the guns are loaded, the knives are all sharp and the whiskey is strong.
    Kindly conduct yourself accordingly"

    I'm not saying we ought to kill all the stupid people,
    We merely have to remove warning labels and let nature take it's natural course.

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    It's hard to beat the tried and true 375 H&H for Africia's NDG.

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    I love the 375 myself. We have had the weird primitive weapon season here shooting single shot rifles .35 cal and larger. I choose the 375h&h shooting 260 Accubonds and have been more than impressed. I have found it pleasant to shoot and with the 260's @ 2900 fps it has long range as well
    AIM SMALL.... MISS SMALL

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeeBooshay View Post
    My PH loves his 338 RUM, but only for non DG critters. I am not into it - too hard to find ammo over there. He is one of the most resourceful guys I know, and I hear him beg for brass and ammo every year.

    LegioX already stated my preferences - look at the muzzle and downrange energy - 416 Rigby matches almost anything out there, even much larger calibers. Couple that with smaller cross section - the penetration is very good. Chamber pressure is much lower than than 416 Ruger or Rem, low enough to use in a double gun.

    Lion hunting? Premium there is hitting it - maybe charging you. SHoot something you are supremely confident with, and that 375 H&H, loaded with TSX would be my #1,2 and 3 choice.

    On the other hand - what does he WANT to buy?

    OME MONTH FROM TODAY - I'LL BE STALKING AGAIN IN THE CAPRIVI!!! OH YEAH!!!!!
    AGAIN???? Color me jealous.

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    Like all hunting, bullet construction and shot placement are the keys, not the cartridge case or bore diameter that the projectile starts with. I have had excellent success with the .470 in a double and a .416 in a bolt gun. I now have a .416 take down and it will make my next trip.

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    I used a .375 for my lion (and leopards) with 300 SAF's. I can't think of anything that would work better.
    For buffalo I much prefer to thump them with with a .45 cal

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    416 gets my vote
    FNH SCAR 16
    7mm STW custom
    Nightforce 5.5-22x56mm
    More to come.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by UA_Flyfisher View Post
    The 375 H&H will do everything he wants with the right bullet choice, which he should discuss with his PH.

    If he really wants something bigger he needs to decide between a bolt and a double gun.

    In a bolt I would probably do a 416 Rigby or 458 Win Mag.

    In a double, either of the above or jump into a 470 Nitro Express or 450/400 N.E.

    For me I'm planning in taking 3 rifles when I eventually get to go:

    300WSM for smaller plains game
    375 H&H for most everything else
    450/400 Nitro if I get the opportunity for Elephant

    Great post. Talk with the PH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakface View Post
    With the Lott you can always use the 458 Winchester for 'light' practice rounds and could always find them if his ammo got misplaced by the airport.

    Your definition of "light" is much different than mine. Lol
    I know you only meant lighter recoil than the Lott.

    I own a 458win mag and loaded with dangerous game loads its no where near what I would like to practice withno more than a Lott. I know the Lott has a little more thump but not that much.
    Last edited by B Man; 12-04-2013 at 02:58 PM.