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Thread: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

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    Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Yes, I know this is a basic question but could someone enlighten me to the difference between a fluted and non-fluted barrel, in regards to function?

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Faster to heat up faster to cool.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Just knocks a little weight off.Some say it makes the barrel stiffer and it cools better do to more surface area.In practical application the only thing you can measure is the weight savings.
    A True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water. The only thing clean on him is his weapon . He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is' he knows either he wins or dies.


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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    I'm starting to believe it's cosmetic and nothing more. Is there objective science stating that fluting in fact makes the barrel stiffer and/or affects cooling? I have an open mind and fluted and non-fluted barrels it's just that curious minds would like to see the facts.
    NRA Benefactor Member | 1911's | AR's | GAP Crusader | Cooper 57M | Semper Paratus | non sibi sed patriae

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Adds surface area and drops a little weight.

    Fluting a barrel will in no way make it stiffer , some folk missunderstand that fluted barrel are stiffer than non fluted barrels of the same size ,this is false , a fluted MTU conture barrel will NOT be stiffer than a non fluted MTU barrel
    BUT
    a 26" long 6 pound fluted barrel will be stiffer than a 26" long non fluted 6 pound barrel because the fluted barrel will be bigger in OD , to get the non fluted barrel down to 6 pounds and still keep the length the same it has to reduce diameter and any time a cylinder get smaller in diameter it looses strength.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    The difference is one cost more. You want to save weight go one barrel size smaller.

    Fluting is like putting chrome wheels on your car... It looks good but it ain't going any faster.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    It's stiffer per unit weight [for a given length] as JJones75 states. The larger surface area also helps dissipate heat. Simple mechanics and heat transfer.
    "To remain ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child." Marcus Tullius Cicero

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    I have to agree with Randy though the main function that amounts to near anything is looks , I like the hell out of fluted barrels especialy when the barrel is two toned , the flute one color and the OD another.

    When your spending $2000-$3000 for a gun whats another $125 to make it exactly the way you want.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: HateCA
    The difference is one cost more. You want to save weight go one barrel size smaller.

    Fluting is like putting chrome wheels on your car... It looks good but it ain't going any faster.


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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: dtheman
    Yes, I know this is a basic question but could someone enlighten me to the difference between a fluted and non-fluted barrel, in regards to function?


    Its fluff and its eye candy, the chicks really dig it though [img]<>/wink.gif[/img]

    For function, toss a coin, either will work same/same

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    maybe we should recommend this to the t.v. show "time warp". see if there is a visable difference in the barrel whip between the fluted and non-fluted. i do like the cool factor of a fluted barrel. waiting on one from obermeyer.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: Chui
    The larger surface area also helps dissipate heat. Simple mechanics and heat transfer.



    Not really. The INTERIOR flutes and exterior surface area add little advantage in design to heat transfer modes. There is a difference but not enough to be taunted as a selling point.

    The only reason they appear to cool faster is becuase they get hotter per round count in the first place. (Newton's Law of Cooling) However, any object will do that.



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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Thanks for the replies, I was originally looking at a non-fluted barrel and was curious about any advantages a fluted barrel would have. As it seems to be cosmetic, I'll stick to the shorter, non-fluted barrel.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: 1911.it
    I'm starting to believe it's cosmetic and nothing more. Is there objective science stating that fluting in fact makes the barrel stiffer and/or affects cooling? I have an open mind and fluted and non-fluted barrels it's just that curious minds would like to see the facts.


    http://www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    The only real reason to flute a barrel (and I have several of them), is to balance a rifle with a long, heavy-contour barrel. And, I would only have it done on a cut-rifled barrel, where the fluting is done PRIOR to rifling the bore.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: Boomholzer
    Originally Posted By: Chui
    The larger surface area also helps dissipate heat. Simple mechanics and heat transfer.



    Not really. The INTERIOR flutes and exterior surface area add little advantage in design to heat transfer modes. There is a difference but not enough to be taunted as a selling point.

    The only reason they appear to cool faster is becuase they get hotter per round count in the first place. (Newton's Law of Cooling) However, any object will do that.




    Boom, you disproved yourself. All outside influences the same, if it heats up faster, it will also cool faster. Dats just da facts.

    Everything JJones75 said is spot on.

    For some reason, my best shooting rifles wear fluted barrels. I'll continue to use them if I have a choice.

    okie

    PS. That link Glock24 posted is a good read if your really interested in the effects of flutting.
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    ones good one sucks! lol no fluted is lighter but at the expense of rigidity and strength, stick with old school and you'll be fine, but either or are good shooters and a good buy
    +++ D.T.O.M. +++



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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    A fluted barrel of the same weight is NOT less rigid or strong. A fluted barrel of the same diameter is. Damn boys its just not that complicated. [img]<>/smile.gif[/img] Its a good thing we're not all too "old school" or we'd still be throwin rocks at each other.

    BTW, what does "ones good one sucks" mean?

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Fluted barrel:

    "Its fluff and its eye candy"
    + "it will also cool faster"
    _________________________________
    = "Cool Factor"

    da daa cchhhhhhhhhh *ducking from randomly thrown objects*

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: USSR
    The only real reason to flute a barrel (and I have several of them), is to balance a rifle with a long, heavy-contour barrel. And, I would only have it done on a cut-rifled barrel, where the fluting is done PRIOR to rifling the bore.

    Don


    If you have a compitant smith that knows what hes doing fluting on any barrel is no problem. Speedy Gonzalez of the former SG&Y rifles and benchrest hall of fame shooter shot shilen barrels (button rifled) and fluted all of his barrels him self.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    “It's stiffer per unit weight [for a given length]” Bingo! Unfortunately math and science are not stress enough in school, so I’m sure someone will say BS.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Well, in order to call BS we'll have to know what your saying. By saying "Its stiffer" are you refering to fluted or non fluted barrels? Not saying I'd call BS either way.

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: Just Me
    “It's stiffer per unit weight [for a given length]” Bingo! Unfortunately math and science are not stress enough in school, so I’m sure someone will say BS.

    I dropped out before completing the 9th grade, and can see that grammar was not "stressed" enough. [img]<>/laugh.gif[/img]
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: okiefired
    Originally Posted By: Boomholzer
    Originally Posted By: Chui
    The larger surface area also helps dissipate heat. Simple mechanics and heat transfer.



    Not really. The INTERIOR flutes and exterior surface area add little advantage in design to heat transfer modes. There is a difference but not enough to be taunted as a selling point.

    The only reason they appear to cool faster is becuase they get hotter per round count in the first place. (Newton's Law of Cooling) However, any object will do that.




    Boom, you disproved yourself. All outside influences the same, if it heats up faster, it will also cool faster. Dats just da facts.



    I don't follow; what I stated supports your statement per less thermal mass. The same can be said for a lightweight sporter contour sans any argument for fluting.

    My take is that flutes add little in design per cooling as folks seem to equate them like fins on a seat sink or other design specifically intended to help dissipate heat.

    So no real advantage with a barrel. Say each shot adds x-amount of heat energy to a barrel. The smaller contour or less metal/mass heats faster per x-number of shots (bad). It cools faster (like you said) because it has a greater temp difference per external or ambient temperature. (The larger contour never got as hot = good) There is no magic or much difference in the heat transfer mechanism. When the shooting stops: once the temp of the small contour equals the larger contour barrel (which was shot the same number of times), the cooling rate starts to converge.

    However, even the large contour will increase cooling rate as it is shot more and its temperature rises to a greater delta over ambient. Now the still lower cooling rate becomes a effect of the greater interior thermal mass vs the boundry.



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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Here's a plain example:

    At the US Army Marksmanship Unit we have two variations on the M16A4 Designated Marksman's Rifle.

    One uses a fluted custom barrel (12 straight flutes), 1-inch in diameter from the chamber to the front sight frame. The other uses an Armalite 7/8ths-inch National Match barrel.

    The fluted 1-inch weighs LESS than the 7/8-inch tube.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    There is a pretty food article on this over at: http://www.snipercountry.com/Article...relFluting.asp

    However, the thing that gives me fits is years ago I shot excaliber arrows which were flutted and lighter than regular XX75, but had the same spine (stiffness). The only thing I can figure is that the flutes weren't cut, but extruded into the aluminum? They had thinner walls and a larger outside diameter, but were not the same weight, but lighter and just as strong (stiff).

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Excellent article thank you for posting it.

    Thanks Pete!

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Good read. Thanks for posting it.
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: sermonator
    There is a pretty food article on this over at: http://www.snipercountry.com/Article...relFluting.asp

    However, the thing that gives me fits is years ago I shot excaliber arrows which were flutted and lighter than regular XX75, but had the same spine (stiffness). The only thing I can figure is that the flutes weren't cut, but extruded into the aluminum? They had thinner walls and a larger outside diameter, but were not the same weight, but lighter and just as strong (stiff).


    Stamped flutes are a completely different animal than milled flutes. Stamping any flute or angle into metal lengthwise will definately increase stiffness. Milling flutes removes metal and decreases stiffness.

    Never did like those Excaliber arrows. My Black Widow would eat'em. [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Originally Posted By: Boomholzer
    Originally Posted By: okiefired
    Originally Posted By: Boomholzer
    Originally Posted By: Chui
    The larger surface area also helps dissipate heat. Simple mechanics and heat transfer.



    Not really. The INTERIOR flutes and exterior surface area add little advantage in design to heat transfer modes. There is a difference but not enough to be taunted as a selling point.

    The only reason they appear to cool faster is becuase they get hotter per round count in the first place. (Newton's Law of Cooling) However, any object will do that.




    Boom, you disproved yourself. All outside influences the same, if it heats up faster, it will also cool faster. Dats just da facts.



    I don't follow; what I stated supports your statement per less thermal mass. The same can be said for a lightweight sporter contour sans any argument for fluting.

    My take is that flutes add little in design per cooling as folks seem to equate them like fins on a seat sink or other design specifically intended to help dissipate heat.

    So no real advantage with a barrel. Say each shot adds x-amount of heat energy to a barrel. The smaller contour or less metal/mass heats faster per x-number of shots (bad). It cools faster (like you said) because it has a greater temp difference per external or ambient temperature. (The larger contour never got as hot = good) There is no magic or much difference in the heat transfer mechanism. When the shooting stops: once the temp of the small contour equals the larger contour barrel (which was shot the same number of times), the cooling rate starts to converge.

    However, even the large contour will increase cooling rate as it is shot more and its temperature rises to a greater delta over ambient. Now the still lower cooling rate becomes a effect of the greater interior thermal mass vs the boundry.




    Boom, not sure I'm following you exactly. Your either much more educated or much better at bull shitting or both [img]<>/smile.gif[/img] . It still seams to me like your down playing the cooling effects of increased surface area. Flutes do increase surface area, the deeper the flute the more the area is increased. Example: You have two 6" square pieces of steel. You put one in a press and mash it to 1/16" thickness. Heat both to the same red hot temp, the thin steel will cool much much faster. Where it gets unclear to me is, I'm not sure if the difference in the amount of time it takes it to heat up will be as great as the dif. in the time it takes to cool. Otherwise, the same greater surface area that decreases cooling time may also increase heating time UNLESS heat is able to be applied equally at the same time to the entire surface of the thin steel. Thats not what happens in a barrel though. Just my thoughts and may be completely screwed up. Its happened before.

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    My AR-15 (5.56) has a fluted barrel - and it damn sure cools a LOT faster than my old AR-15 ever did....

    I'm going with a Fluted Kreiger barrel - they have an EXCELLENT Paper on fluting on their website...
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    A heavy barrel, bead blasted ( true surface area increase) IMO heats up slowly and cools down fast.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Heavy bead blasting. Hmmmm.........that brings a new dog to the hunt. Never really thouht about increasing surface area that way.

    SF, nice looking rig BTW.

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    The fluted ones look cool but cost more and yea if you flute it after it's been made then all that it will do is look cool. I subscribe to the more surface area stance, but have failed to notice anything structural being fluted anywhere. If the flutes make the barrel stiffer why aren't more stuctural items that need to be stiff fluted?

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    Fluting does NOT make a barrel stiffer, it in fact weakens it. But a fluted barrel of the same weight as a particular non fluted barrel has a conciderably larger diameter thus making it stiffer. The increased OD also adds to the surface area along with the flutes. BTW, I believe all barrels are fluted AFTER they're made (flutes are milled into the barrel) and it has no effect on weather they, the flutes, are advantagous or not.

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: glock24
    Originally Posted By: 1911.it
    I'm starting to believe it's cosmetic and nothing more. Is there objective science stating that fluting in fact makes the barrel stiffer and/or affects cooling? I have an open mind and fluted and non-fluted barrels it's just that curious minds would like to see the facts.


    http://www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm


    Thanks for posting that link! Varmint Al's site has so many links that I have yet to explore the entire thing. Interesting analysis of fluted barrels. My basic take-away is that the fluted barrel's lighter weight allows you to use a larger O.D. without the resultant muzzle sag due to the extra weight. Quoted directly:

    "If fluting is done without introducing large residual stresses in the barrel it should improve accuracy by as much as 20% over a solid barrel of the same contour."

    This is the only thing I've read about fluted barrels that includes computerized thermal modeling.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barre

    I meant after the rifling is cut.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    A fluted barrel is as rigid as a non-fluted barrel of the same weight....therefore if the fluted barrel is lighter than a non-fluted barrel it does not have the same integrity as the heavier straight barrel.
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    The reason fluting has negligible cooling benefit is because there is almost no airflow.

    If you rigged up a fan, the fluted barrel would cool faster than a non-fluted of the same mass with the same fan. Once the air between flutes comes up to temp...without reasonable airflow......there is likely no improvement in heat exchange.
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    I can't see fluting increasing accuracy by 20% or increasing accuracy period!

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: Turk
    I can't see fluting increasing accuracy by 20% or increasing accuracy period!


    Sorry man, but it appears you'd be wrong . . . at least in this case. I know Varmint Al's report isn't the easiest to follow, but the finite analysis tool he is using is simply running the numbers, and the numbers (in this case) show about a 20% improvement in accuracy with his two fluted barrel models. Maybe he got lucky and picked the only example where this is true, but I doubt it.

    What makes this analysis so interesting is the fact that it is analyzing the real-time dynamic and thermal forces involved with high pressure gas acting on the barrel. Most of the arguments I've read in the posts above treat a barrel like a cantilevered beam. That's a great elementary model, but advanced FEA tools were invented to go beyond general college physics.

    What appears to be happening in Al's examples are a significant change in vibration frequencies between his fluted barrel models and his solid barrel model. He actually attributes these changes to not only the flutes, but also to the small section of unfluted barrel near the muzzle which he suggests is acting like a barrel tuner.

    It seems that this change in vibration frequency (higher frequency) in the fluted barrels is allowing the bullet to exit the muzzle when the velocity of the barrel swing is very low. It is all about the timing. The timing between when the chamber explosion sets the entire rifle in motion to when the bullet leaves the muzzle. This timing can be thought of in much the same way as when different bullet velocities demonstrate different accuracies in your rifle. Finding the "most accurate" velocity is nothing more than getting the bullet to exit the muzzle when the barrel movement is calmest. Al believes the calmest place in a barrel's swing is just before it reaches its maximum upward swing and begins to travel downward again.

    In Al's models, this timing change from the fluting allows each bullet to be pointing in almost the same direction when leaving the barrel, which of course leads to higher accuracy. Could this same "optimium" timing be realized in a non-fluted barrel? Good question. Al's models seem to demonstrate this optimum timing is easier to acheive in a fluted barrel due to the significant shift in natural frequency without a significant shift in barrel diameter or barrel length.

    He's using a 6mm bullet at about 3400 fps for his example. Do these results hold true with other sized bullets at different velocities? Maybe someone should e-mail him and ask . . .


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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: glock24
    Originally Posted By: Turk
    I can't see fluting increasing accuracy by 20% or increasing accuracy period!


    Sorry man, but it appears you'd be wrong . . . at least in this case. I know Varmint Al's report isn't the easiest to follow, but the finite analysis tool he is using is simply running the numbers, and the numbers (in this case) show about a 20% improvement in accuracy with his two fluted barrel models. Maybe he got lucky and picked the only example where this is true, but I doubt it.


    Varmint Al's model is still simplified. He goes on to do a more complex model later, but it does not estimate accuracy, rather it shows what we expect to happen with the vibrations. I think there are a couple of interesting thoughts here (you pointed out one of them):
    1) The nonfluted section from the barrel to the muzzle acts as a tuner... this is not to say that it is tuned. The caliber, load, barrel length, and geometry and length of flutes should all come into play... I am surprised no one has really experimented much with this. If you read some of Varmint Al's page, you also find that an out-of-tune tuner is better than no tuner at all. I wonder why centerfire folks don't do more experimentation with tuners.
    2) The reduced weight results in reduced muzzle sag. What causes a rifle to vibrate in the first place is the fact that the muzzle is sagging (pointing downward lsightly) and the pressure from the ignition causes the barrel to straighten, then overshoot. If there is less muzzle sag, the overshoot will be less (basically, the amplitude of the vibration will be less). The reason we want stiffness is to reduce vibration. By reducing muzzle sag, we have accomplished the same thing. He also notes that another way to increase stiffness is to shorten the barrel, but as you know, you end up with reduced muzzle velocity with the decreased length. Fluting allows you to have your cake and eat it, too.

    Honestly, I have read Varmint Al's page on fluting several times and have come away with several different conclusions each time I have read it. After further examination, it appears that fluting decreases stiffness (of a barrel of the same contour) but MAY increase accuracy. For all of the talk of the shift in frequency of the vibration, I think that the analysis shows that reduction in the amplitude of the vibration (through reduction in muzzle sag) is just as important.
    -Carter Mayfield

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: Rafael
    The reason fluting has negligible cooling benefit is because there is almost no airflow.

    If you rigged up a fan, the fluted barrel would cool faster than a non-fluted of the same mass with the same fan. Once the air between flutes comes up to temp...without reasonable airflow......there is likely no improvement in heat exchange.


    What is "reasonable" air flow? Reasonable air flow is ANY air flow, fan or no fan. The only way what you said would be true is if you were shooting in a vacume all the time. The rising heat from the barrel itself after firing might cause enough air flow to increase cooling effect. I'll admit the more the circulation or air flow the greater the cooling effect for a fluted barrel or a non fluted barrel, dosn't matter which. Fact is, a 1mph wind would increase the cooling effect for a fluted barrel more than it would for a non fluted barrel simply because of the increased surface area. Period.

    okie

    PS. BTW, good thread. This is the kind of discussion that keeps me on the "Hide".
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Some of you don't buy the cooling effects of the flutes, and some do. Then some people started liking the idea of adding some surface area with bead blasting. So what happens when you see my Krieger barrel that is fluted, and then the flutes are bead blasted, but the outside polished? [img]<>/smile.gif[/img] It's purdy.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    A quick background on me... I have a degree in chemical engineering and have done some work with heat exchangers, but I am not as good at thermodynamics as a mechanical engineer might be, so take everything I write with a grain of salt.

    The mechanism for cooling a barrel is convection, where a fluid medium (in this case, air) transfers heat from the barrel and is carried away to be replaced by more air. There are two types of convection: forced convection and free convection. If you were to run a fan over the barrel, you would have forced convection. The dominant type of convection for this case is free convection (basically, convection under zero wind).

    Normally, I would agree with Rafael. In my design work, free convection is negligible. But given the fact that we are comparing free convection with free convection, the mechanism for heat transfer is the same in both cases... free convection, so the larger surface area will cause increased heat transfer. However, the increase in heat transfer is not exactly proportional to the increased surface area because the geometry is different. A cylinder would transfer heat pretty well. My guess without running any models is that the fluted cylinder will not transfer heat as well as a cylinder.

    Then the article from Sniper Country brings in another point of view, which is to look at this as an insulation problem where you basically view the barrel as an insulator and by cutting the flutes, you decrease the amount of insulation in the barrel, thereby increasing heat transfer. The simplified chemical engineer's heat transfer equation is H = UA[delta]T or basically, that heat transferred is equal to a heat transfer coefficient times the area exposed times the temperature difference. In the Sniper's Country article, the temperature difference is higher in the flutes so heat transfer is better.

    To summarize, it looks like there are a number of factors to consider:
    1) Mass reduction - effect: quicker to heat up because less mass is absorbing the same amount of thermal energy. It will also be faster to cool down because the same amount of heat transfer should cool the barrel faster
    2) Increased area - while the geometry is different, causing reduced heat transfer per surface area, I would bet that this is overcome by the increase in exposed surface area
    3) Decreased radius from the bore to the flute causing less thermal insulation and higher temperature difference between air and surface temperatures at the flute.

    Looking at H (heat transferred) = U (heat transfer coefficient) * A (area of heat transfer) * delta T (temperature difference),

    U goes down (probably slightly), A increases, and T increases. Further because of the difference in mass, the H (heat transferred) will cool a smaller amount of metal faster.

    So there we have it... it looks like there is a pretty good case that fluted barrels will heat up faster but also cool substantially faster than a non-fluted barrel of the same countour... But someone needs to check up on the effect of the heat transfer coefficient decreasing to be sure. Not it.
    -Carter Mayfield

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Great post, Carter!
    I have to rush to an appointment, but managed to skim it.
    Makes good sense so far, and your credentials are way better than mine. Thanks for the analysis!
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Very good post CM and welcome to the Hide. I sure would like to know though where you guys are shooting all the time that there is zero wind. [img]<>/smile.gif[/img] I simply cant see where the dominant type of convection here is free convection.

    I think another thing that some aren't thinking about is that the fluted barrel is cooling faster ALL the time as in while shooting, not just after shooting. This should help to somewhat offset the fact that the lesser material of the fluted barrel will heat faster.

    okie
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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    i know that after 10-12 rounds out of my fluted 300wm barrel, i can't hold my hand on it because of the heat. unfortunately i don't have a comparable rifle with non-fluted barrel to compare. either way, the fluted barrel sure looks cool [img]<>/grin.gif[/img]
    I might get drunk and rob a bank, shoot my car if it don't crank. Try to raise a little Cain, mess the walls up with some paint. Might even join a rodeo, ride my horse to Buffalo, change my name to Bill, I don't think I ever will But I can't promise you I won't. Some people do, some people don't.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    this is the best answer i have ever heard and it is correct. I have owned and tested both
    Originally Posted By: HateCA
    The difference is one cost more. You want to save weight go one barrel size smaller.

    Fluting is like putting chrome wheels on your car... It looks good but it ain't going any faster.
    No one can win forever thats why we keep doing it.

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    Re: Difference between fluted and non-fluted barrels?

    Originally Posted By: okiefired
    Very good post CM and welcome to the Hide. I sure would like to know though where you guys are shooting all the time that there is zero wind. [img]<>/smile.gif[/img] I simply cant see where the dominant type of convection here is free convection.

    I think another thing that some aren't thinking about is that the fluted barrel is cooling faster ALL the time as in while shooting, not just after shooting. This should help to somewhat offset the fact that the lesser material of the fluted barrel will heat faster.

    okie

    [img]<>/laugh.gif[/img]
    It seems that the hotter it is at the range, the less wind......or it feels that way when it's really hot.
    The opposite seems to be true on cold days.....or I am just scared of heat and cold. [img]<>/laugh.gif[/img]
    $
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