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Thread: Most effective brake

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    Most effective brake

    All things considered, which brake out there will be most effective in redirecting blast and reducing recoil in a 18.5 inch .308 build? Remington Sendero profile barrel. Approximate finish build weight will be 9-10 lbs. While I won't be using a suppressor, do Sure fire brakes make sense as stand alone muzzle brakes, Or are there other makes which are superior?

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    The most effective brakes I have personally used are the JEC and the little bastard, in that order.

    R

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    Surefire works great.

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    +1 on the LB
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    My concern was that the surefire brake is kinda specialized to interface with a suppressor, soooo W/O a suppressor, they hold their own with the best stand alone brakes? Which Sf brake would be best to put on an 18.5 Varmit/sendero countour?
    Last edited by sjb269; 05-06-2013 at 03:01 PM.

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    I've done lots of testing with brakes. Suffice it to say, don't get caught up in brands and/or designs as much as installation. Exit hole diameter trumps both. Yes, if all things are equal, some are slightly better than others, but I'd challenge anyone to "feel" the difference...Some can, but most can not. It's very marginal. I do understand the need for any and all improvement in a competitive environment, though. But a smith can easily take the very best brake and make it inferior to another. As a rule...concentricity, proper clearance, and sail area are what you're looking for in brake efficiency.

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    Many brake choices are not at all marginally different, they're very differnt. That's why extremely overbore cartridges use more baffles. A larger area for the gas to push against, along with the angle it comes back I believe are what is important, along with a tight exit hole to seal as well as possible.

    Kirby Allen makes good brakes, Nate Dagley makes good brakes, the Little Bastard also gets great reviews on here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEzell View Post
    Exit hole diameter trumps both.
    +1
    After I picked up a lathe, the first thing I built was a new Brake for my 300wm. Made the threw hole 0.328 and the 3 side vents 5/8" with 5/16 top holes. The weapon does not change POA/POI w/ or w/o the brake. With the brake on recoil compares with my 22lr's that is per me and everyone else who has shot it. When I cut the next one out it will have an exit of .318 just to try out. I understand the recommend ctr hole size per XXX cal from most mfg's, as they have no control over the muzzle threading or machine set up for boring the threw hole in some brakes But, like MikeEzell said the exit/threw hole makes all the difference in the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Kemp View Post
    Many brake choices are not at all marginally different, they're very differnt. That's why extremely overbore cartridges use more baffles. A larger area for the gas to push against, along with the angle it comes back I believe are what is important, along with a tight exit hole to seal as well as possible.

    Kirby Allen makes good brakes, Nate Dagley makes good brakes, the Little Bastard also gets great reviews on here.
    Then I suppose you wouldn't believe that a simple 1/2" hole through the side of a 1" piece of material screwed on the end of a barrel actually makes a pretty effective brake. Believe me, it does. I design and install about 175 brakes/year, on average. I've tested just about every design I can find. I have documented my results, and they would surprise many, not just you. Brake mfgs have done a marvelous job of convincing the masses that their "cool" brake works better than others, when physics, not cosmetics, are where the proof lies. True, some are slightly better than others, just not what we are sold to believe. There's plenty of reading on the subject done by the military if you care to read up on it. It concludes that there are designs that work better than others, but those design characteristics are seldom what we "think" they are. Yes, sail area is important, relatively, but exit hole is moreso. And yes, angle of the baffle makes a difference, but exit hole moreso. The location of the first baffle is also important. That's as far as I'll go into detail. As I said, I also design brakes.lol.
    The larger caliber brakes simply have two factors that brake design has not overcome thus far. That being heavier projectiles and a greater area required for the bullet path. Gasses will follow the path of least resistance, normally being a straight line. The greater bore area of the break means more gasses will go unused to pull the gun forward. Small caliber, high pressure cartridges benefit most from brakes. This is somewhat in agreement with what you said about overbore cartridges responding well to a brake.

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    FTE or Little Bastard IMHO.
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    Lil basterd absolutely great

    But so are thruster, rad, surefire. Used vais too before too

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    get the Thunderbeast brake - then add the can when your form comes back :-)

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    Vais is great if omni-directional will work for ya.
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    MikeEzell's post is revealing to say the very least. One thing that has not been discussed at all on this threat is the load- some bullet/powder combinations respond better to certain brakes. The IPSC shooters (the serious shooters) through huge amounts of experimentation, adjusted their powder (type/brand) to obtain maximum effectiveness from their brakes (all while still making major or course). The pressure curve generated by two given powders can result in near identical muzzle velocity, while delivering a different gas flow at the muzzle. While some brakes may in fact be of a better design, or machined in a superior fashion, matching your load to the brake (within limits) will result in the most effective braking action.

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    I like Little bastard and Rad brakes but the most effective I have used is the factory one on my AIAE.

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    JP tank brake

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    As mentioned above, many countries' militaries have been testing brakes for over 100 years now. A few days browsing DTIC will blow your mind, just about every question ever asked on this forum has already been tested and answered, haha. There is a very specific set of design guidelines for max efficiency vs too much overpressure, etc. Basically find a two port tank style brake like the Badger Ordnance and you'll do just fine. After 2 ports you're not gaining much and after 3 you're pretty much just adding weight. At these relatively low recoil levels most shooters will only be able to detect really large changes in brake efficiency in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawprint2 View Post
    MikeEzell's post is revealing to say the very least. One thing that has not been discussed at all on this threat is the load- some bullet/powder combinations respond better to certain brakes. The IPSC shooters (the serious shooters) through huge amounts of experimentation, adjusted their powder (type/brand) to obtain maximum effectiveness from their brakes (all while still making major or course). The pressure curve generated by two given powders can result in near identical muzzle velocity, while delivering a different gas flow at the muzzle. While some brakes may in fact be of a better design, or machined in a superior fashion, matching your load to the brake (within limits) will result in the most effective braking action.
    This is relative to muzzle pressure. Generally, slower powders will have more pressure..later or further down the barrel. That's not to say that we should use the slowest powder possible. In fact, often faster powders for a given caliber produce the best accuracy. Go with what shoots best in your gun. I'm very aware of what you're talking about. I also know that speed is paramount in their game, and finding every small advantage is just that..an advantage. Accuracy is a long way down their list of concerns. Even still, testing has proven to me that their efforts are worth little...but still real. I have said what I know to be factual. It's quite alright with me if everyone does not agree with my findings. I'm ok with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Massoud View Post
    As mentioned above, many countries' militaries have been testing brakes for over 100 years now. A few days browsing DTIC will blow your mind, just about every question ever asked on this forum has already been tested and answered, haha. There is a very specific set of design guidelines for max efficiency vs too much overpressure, etc. Basically find a two port tank style brake like the Badger Ordnance and you'll do just fine. After 2 ports you're not gaining much and after 3 you're pretty much just adding weight. At these relatively low recoil levels most shooters will only be able to detect really large changes in brake efficiency in my opinion.
    Justin
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    I have a fat bastard on my 28" .308 and that works like a charm. I like the look as opposed to the little bastard.

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    I use the AAC brake which adapts to the can.

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    I ordered 2 AAC brakes to test one has a few ports and works with a can, the other like a tank brake, single baffle 2 ports. My goal is less recoil on a lightweight set up.

    I have hreard good things about the LB as well.

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    I use a ops inc on a 300WM and it is a pleasure to shoot. The best I have ever used is the one they put on a AR30. My 338LM has an metal butt pad. That has to speak as to how good that break is.

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    LB works great on my 7wsm, had one on a tac308 & it was a blast to shoot.
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    I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, exit hole size is the most important. After that baffle area (and location of the first baffle namely) and angle come into play. Nothing you said I disagree with, just wanted to clarify. For large cartridges more baffles can help a ton. I saw tests with the same brake design with 3 vs 5 baffles and in big cartridges 5 baffles helped considerably. No surprise since there's a lot more gas to be pushing against the baffles, although much less for the last few.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEzell View Post
    Then I suppose you wouldn't believe that a simple 1/2" hole through the side of a 1" piece of material screwed on the end of a barrel actually makes a pretty effective brake. Believe me, it does. I design and install about 175 brakes/year, on average. I've tested just about every design I can find. I have documented my results, and they would surprise many, not just you. Brake mfgs have done a marvelous job of convincing the masses that their "cool" brake works better than others, when physics, not cosmetics, are where the proof lies. True, some are slightly better than others, just not what we are sold to believe. There's plenty of reading on the subject done by the military if you care to read up on it. It concludes that there are designs that work better than others, but those design characteristics are seldom what we "think" they are. Yes, sail area is important, relatively, but exit hole is moreso. And yes, angle of the baffle makes a difference, but exit hole moreso. The location of the first baffle is also important. That's as far as I'll go into detail. As I said, I also design brakes.lol.
    The larger caliber brakes simply have two factors that brake design has not overcome thus far. That being heavier projectiles and a greater area required for the bullet path. Gasses will follow the path of least resistance, normally being a straight line. The greater bore area of the break means more gasses will go unused to pull the gun forward. Small caliber, high pressure cartridges benefit most from brakes. This is somewhat in agreement with what you said about overbore cartridges responding well to a brake.
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    Here's a sample of my promotional firearm video work with a GAP-10:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGmusWYATE&feature

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Kemp View Post
    I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, exit hole size is the most important. After that baffle area (and location of the first baffle namely) and angle come into play. Nothing you said I disagree with, just wanted to clarify. For large cartridges more baffles can help a ton. I saw tests with the same brake design with 3 vs 5 baffles and in big cartridges 5 baffles helped considerably. No surprise since there's a lot more gas to be pushing against the baffles, although much less for the last few.
    Yes Tyler, it sounds like we do agree. Sorry if I came across poorly. I do get frustrated when people claim a certain pre-packaged brake to be the best thing since sliced bread when I know different. Usually these types have too little experience with an array of different brakes and installations to form a truly educated opinion. It's easy to understand, as most all brakes make a WORLD of difference and simply amaze most people. But when compared "apples to apples" some brakes don't live up to their claims.
    Thanks for your input. I apologize if I said anything offensive.

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    +1 on the JEC, Popular with the pro's list too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb269 View Post
    All things considered, which brake out there will be most effective in redirecting blast and reducing recoil in a 18.5 inch .308 build? Remington Sendero profile barrel. Approximate finish build weight will be 9-10 lbs. While I won't be using a suppressor, do Sure fire brakes make sense as stand alone muzzle brakes, Or are there other makes which are superior?
    I can tell you a shrewd sucks to high hell, blows shit in your face and doesn't tame the kick much. Rem40xb makes a hell of a brake for a good price.