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Thread: 243 vs the 260 Rem

  1. #1
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    243 vs the 260 Rem

    Pretty much had my heart set on converting my Rem 700 from a 308 to a 260 until the last day or so, I cant find any brass at all let alone ammo. I started looking over the 243 specs and ballistics and compnents, seems more available and the results from the "what the pros use" thread speak well of the 243. What will I be giving up with the 243 vs the 260 and what will I be gaining if I go with the 243? Most of my lifetime shooting has been with the 30 cal round of one type or another, as well as my 5.56 trigger time in the Army on a 16.
    Hoka Hey

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    243 properly loaded with 105 berger hybrids or 115 Dtac bullets will be a good bit flatter than a 260, and give up nothing in the wind.

    The disadvantage?

    All other things being equal, the 243 will use the barrel up faster (a good bit faster) than a 260. Also, misses out past ~600 yards are more difficult to see than a 260.

    Factory loaded matchgrade 243 or 260 ammo is scarce, so I don't think you'll find component or ammo availability to be better for the 243.

    Lastly, if you want to consider a 6mm, you might also look into the 6mm Competition Match, the 6mm Creedmoor, the 6mm x 47, and the 6mm XC.

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    I am considering a 6 -6.5 but no experience with them at all, long term supplies of components are a concern for me, don't want to jump on the caliber of the day band wagon, what one would you suggest?
    Hoka Hey

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    you can always neck up 243 cases to 260 in a pinch, I had a 243 and while very accurate and fun to shoot, barrel life and fouling was a big inconveniance, to me any way. I rebarreled the action with a 24 inch 1-8 twist .260 and will never go back to the 243, in fact I necked up all my 243 brass to 260. 3 friends have now build 260 after shooting mine past 1250 yds.

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    Good God, that's a loaded question...

    Answer these questions:

    What will you do with this rifle?
    Casual target shooting? On steel? On paper?
    At what range?
    Will you be competing in tactical matches?
    How long a barrel are you ok with?
    Will you put a suppressor on it?
    Will you shoot LOTS? About how many rounds per year?
    How many rounds minimum do you expect from a barrel?
    How important is it to you to be able to buy factory ammo?
    Does it have to be factory MATCH ammo?
    Are you ok with a wildcat?
    If so, how much brass prep are you willing to do?

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    I currently have a 243 win shooting 105 vld's, and boy does it shoot well. However, I plan to change caliber to a 260 Rem as an all around hunting/ target rifle. 260 rem 24" 1-8 twist, and plan to use 130 vld. As mentioned above, around 500-600 yards its very difficult to spot your miss. I never had a 260 so I really cant comment on it yet.

    No doubt the 243 is super fun to shoot, I just want a little more energy and can choose a bullet weight from 100-140gr for most of my purpose. You can buy 260 lapua brass which is in stock at mile high shooting. Projectiles well that's a different story, hard to find right now.
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    Good thread...I have been able to find some 6mm bullets but not much out there for 6.5

    Are the 105 bergers touchy to make shoot well out of the 243 or do they tune in pretty well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo54 View Post
    Good God, that's a loaded question...

    Answer these questions:

    What will you do with this rifle?
    Target shooting
    Casual target shooting? On steel? On paper?
    All of the above, I will shoot at rocks, I just like shooting
    At what range?
    1k
    Will you be competing in tactical matches?
    I hope to but very few matches here in So Fla
    How long a barrel are you ok with?
    Prefer 26 but okay out to 28
    Will you put a suppressor on it?
    No
    Will you shoot LOTS? About how many rounds per year?
    I shoot about 4 k rnds per year now so will still be about 4 k total, 1k in this rifle
    How many rounds minimum do you expect from a barrel?
    Okay with 1 k rounds 2 k better but will have a remage barrel so no big deal installing a new one
    How important is it to you to be able to buy factory ammo?
    Components more important, factory nice to have when I let kids and relatives shoot my stuff (Dam kids will shoot all I have if left to themselves, started making them buy their own ammo, my stockpile is not so diminished anymore
    Does it have to be factory MATCH ammo?
    No
    Are you ok with a wildcat?
    If its easy and reliable to make but prefer to stay within standard avail rounds
    If so, how much brass prep are you willing to do?
    As much as needed as long as the rounds shoot well

    Thanks for the info guys
    Hoka Hey

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    If shooting paper mostly. Why not the 6mmRem ? A little better than the 243, the longer neck helps a lot with bullet seating depths. I have a couple of them but don't shoot 1000 yds with it right now. Right now 600 yds is what I have been shooting and the groundhogs out to about 750-800 yds. It has a factory 9.25 twist and hand handles the 105 gr hybrid just fine. The 105 gr A-max's don't do bad either and they're cheaper ! Best bullet for me is the Sierra 95gr BTHP in my rifle out to 600.
    IMO...
    6mmRem

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    Lapua brass from Mile High, 140gr Hornady BTHP from Midsouth...you're on your own for H4350 and large rifle primers.

    Another serious option to consider is the 6.5 Creedmoor...Hornady brass seems to be more available than 260 brass and its cheaper, and whenever the Great Hoarding of 2013 stops you can find 140gr Amax factory ammo for ~$25/box.

    6mm bullets are less expensive & more available than 6.5mm bullets, so if you went 243 you could always shoot a semi-mild load that will still do very good ballistically while extending barrel life. And with the Rem-Age setup, you're only ~$350 and 15 minutes invested into a new barrel.
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    Based on your response, I'd say that a 243 would be a great choice.

    I say this because factory (non match) ammo is widely available most of the time. Cor-Lokt, winchester super-X, etc etc. It's a lovely little cartridge to shoot and the recoil is easily manageable for anyone. It performs really well at distance and in the wind, especially when fitted with a long barrel which you plan on anyway. It has the most prolific components available (excpet for 308), and even the high end bullets are a bit cheaper in 6mm. Where the 243 suffers is barrel life, and that is where the 6mm wildcats have their advantage over the 243. However, a 243 barrel will last long enough to satisfy your expectations.

    There are a ton of 6mm wildcats that do nearly the same thing as a 243 with small improvements or nuances. A little faster, a little less powder, etc etc. Many of them are based on the 243 case, and need sizing/forming. Again though, for the most part the key advantage to these is the barrel lasting a bit longer. For your purposes though, which requires pre-fit barrels and relative ease of just "load and shoot", I don't think the barrel life improvement is worth the extra work or hastle of getting pre-fit barrels chambered for these carrtridges.

    Hope that helps.

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    6.5 Creed is the answer you're looking for.

    Your friends/family can buy factory Hornady match ammo. Its going to meet your needs, and be the simplest solution.
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    My head is "spinning". I'd go for 270. But after reading all the input, I don't know where to go. I "always thought" I'd get a 243, some day. They shoot . A 270, by the book, shoots better. WWWWWWWWWWoat's. It's a choice, Good Luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshcBoucher View Post
    My head is "spinning". I'd go for 270. But after reading all the input, I don't know where to go. I "always thought" I'd get a 243, some day. They shoot . A 270, by the book, shoots better. WWWWWWWWWWoat's. It's a choice, Good Luck!
    270?

    Really?

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    I'd stay away from the .270, but consider the 6.5mm (Creedmoor or .260) and take up reloading. The 6.5 Creedmoor has become popular enough there are multiple sources for brass, and you can buy Hornady match-grade ammo off the shelf (comes with a recipe to reload to identical specs). Nothing wrong with the .243, but you'll change barrels more often and have a harder time seeing/hearing hits at distance.

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    I too was in your shoes not to long ago, however I have had a 243 and did not want to deal with barrel burning and fouling. I chose the 6.5 Creedmoor, components really have not been all that hard to find. I just got on several websites and used the notify when in stock options. In less than a months time I now have, 3 lbs of H4350, 200 rds of brass, 200 rds of 140gr Berger Hybrids, 500 Federal 210M primers, and a 3 die set, for when my barrel and stock show up. I could have gotten more brass, bullets, etc., but chose to wait and see how my gun likes them before ordering a ton of them.

    If you are patient, you can find all necessary components at fair prices. As others mentioned there really is no comparison once you get out to longer ranges with the 6.5 over the 243. I have seen guys take them clear out to a mile.

    My main reason for choosing the Creedmoor over the 260 was the 30 degree shoulder angle and being able to load the 140's out longer and still fit in a AICS 308 Mag. If I remember right I can get 2.880" COL and still fit in the mag. If you load both cartridges to that same COL they will be virtually identical ballistic twins.

    Just my two cents worth on the 6.5 vs 6mm. Good luck with whichever route you take
    Last edited by Shoalwater; 04-17-2013 at 04:03 PM.

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    Love the 270 for most everything that has fur on it but finding quality bullets in the 27 cal is tough at best. 260 no problem, 280 again no problem but .27 just doesn't get the same love. Damn shame too, its a really fantastic long distance game getter. Id stick with a 260 if it were me, you ca. Neck down 308, or neck up 243, and the bullet selection is pretty awesome throughout the manufacturer spectrum. 6mm bullets are likewise but I think they're harder on barrels. Just my .02

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    I know it is not an option, but decided to go with the 260 ackley for a little bit more boiler room.

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    243 is just fun to shoot stuff with. You have to be more cognizant of wind when you are making the 243 stretch its legs but I know guys that swear by all that is 6mm. Check out 6.5x47....
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    Yeah sure the 243 is super fun. I loaded up some 58 gr v-max using H4895 in my 21" barrel with speeds around 3885 fps. Talk about shooting squirrels, explosive! Super accurate. However I feel the 260 rem will be just as fun, heck I believe they make 85gr 6.5mm projectiles. Also as mention above the 6.5 Creedmoor is cool and has factory loads that work well. You need to review the pros/cons and make you choice. Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailrider121 View Post
    ... I feel the 260 rem will be just as fun
    Agreed, trying to track down a Bighorn Action for a 260 build as we speak. "explosive" (someone has to set the standard)
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    Thanks Shoal, after scouring the net a bit today, you are correct, the 6.5 Creedmor is more available and more likely to be around for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoalwater View Post
    I too was in your shoes not to long ago, however I have had a 243 and did not want to deal with barrel burning and fouling. I chose the 6.5 Creedmoor, components really have not been all that hard to find. I just got on several websites and used the notify when in stock options. In less than a months time I now have, 3 lbs of H4350, 200 rds of brass, 200 rds of 140gr Berger Hybrids, 500 Federal 210M primers, and a 3 die set, for when my barrel and stock show up. I could have gotten more brass, bullets, etc., but chose to wait and see how my gun likes them before ordering a ton of them.

    If you are patient, you can find all necessary components at fair prices. As others mentioned there really is no comparison once you get out to longer ranges with the 6.5 over the 243. I have seen guys take them clear out to a mile.

    My main reason for choosing the Creedmoor over the 260 was the 30 degree shoulder angle and being able to load the 140's out longer and still fit in a AICS 308 Mag. If I remember right I can get 2.880" COL and still fit in the mag. If you load both cartridges to that same COL they will be virtually identical ballistic twins.

    Just my two cents worth on the 6.5 vs 6mm. Good luck with whichever route you take
    Hoka Hey

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    Jerry,

    What's your level of reloading experience? How much are you willing to spend in time and money to "bump up" your reloading game?

    If you don't think that reloading is just as much fun as shooting, then you should stick to a caliber where you at least have the choice to buy factory long-range ammo, like say 6.5 Creedmoor.

    I like 6.5x47 Lapua myself, but it's an acquired taste. (Plus, I've also "acquired" a bunch of components and dies over the years.)

    Tell us more about your shooting goals, your reloading skills, and where you want to go. Then, we'll be able to give better advice.

    Lefty

    P.S. Get the kids their own guns! Or at least make them help with the reloading chores.

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    Between me posting above and coming back I learned in my other thread that SWammo will be making 260 again, I will go back to the 260. Been reloading since I was a poor dude just out of the Army back in 88, all 30's cal and 45 pistol though, and yes I do enjoy it almost as much as shooting. Kids live in NYC (school), Va (Miitary) they have their own guns already but keep them here and expect me to feed them food and ammo when they visit as well as let them shoot my M1a, AR's etc that they dont have. I still have a month or two before I have to pick a caliber,you ^.5 dudes put forward some persuasive arguments though, particularly the loading in an AI mag at length and components availability.

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertLefty View Post
    Jerry,

    What's your level of reloading experience? How much are you willing to spend in time and money to "bump up" your reloading game?

    If you don't think that reloading is just as much fun as shooting, then you should stick to a caliber where you at least have the choice to buy factory long-range ammo, like say 6.5 Creedmoor.

    I like 6.5x47 Lapua myself, but it's an acquired taste. (Plus, I've also "acquired" a bunch of components and dies over the years.)

    Tell us more about your shooting goals, your reloading skills, and where you want to go. Then, we'll be able to give better advice.

    Lefty

    P.S. Get the kids their own guns! Or at least make them help with the reloading chores.
    Hoka Hey

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    I went with the 260 mainly because of the extended barrel life, compared to the 243. It seems like most if not all reloading components are a bit scares these days.

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    I'm currently in the process of my first build. I was too in the debate between 243win, 260rem, and 6.5cm. I ended up choosing 260 because I can get components at my local sporting good store and I can't get 6.5 cm ammo or brass there so 260 won. I also live in oregon so people talked me into the 260rem because it does get really windy here A lot! I just want a wind bucking high b.c cartridge that I can use for long range hunting and competition that won't break my bank. I also have been talking to a old man I just met the other day he does 1000yrd benchrest and he uses the 260 rem (which he calls it the old 6.5-08 same cartridge though) and I see that he has A LOT of experience with long range, he shows me that you don't need some 10k rifle to be good at shooting, you don't need the newest type of action or barrel you just need a good cartridge and a rifle that can shoot straight. He uses a kind of cheap scope but still wins. He also tells me all the stories of the international competitions he shot and about the people that came from the uk and scotland and what cartridges they used and the cartridge they used was the well known 1k yard winner the 6.5-284. I'm very new at long range and I have been reading a ton and learning so much but my dad always says "don't over think it son" but I always over think it like usual but choose the cartridge that best fits your climate and your needs, and remember I'm only 14 so I learn everything I can. Hope you choose the right cartridge that meets your needs ~LRN

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    My guts telling me for your purposes youl regret at once atleast if choose 243 and youl be happy with 260.coming from dual 260 shooter

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    Go 6.5x47 Lapua. Lots of brass everywhere. It's not because its a bad round. I'm getting better proformance than the 260. And the bullets have a higher BC that 243-6mm bullets. Just saying

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    260 with 140 Bergers.

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    Long range newbie, you are pretty wise for a 14 year old, hell for any age, good parents or your bsin about your age. Thanks for all the input gents, I think I have ruled out 243.
    Hoka Hey

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyJerry View Post
    Thanks for all the input gents, I think I have ruled out 243.
    OK, now that you've settled on 6.5mm, you need to give just a little more thought to which 6.5mm.

    260 has more case capacity, but 6.5 Creedmoor gives you more flexibility for seating long bullets.

    Optimum seating depth is an important consideration for long-range performance and consistency.

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    I recently went with the 260, it will do everything you want it to. As said above, you could downsize some 308, upsize 243 if needed but Lapua 260 brass is available.

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    If you are familiar with the 30 cal round then you should have a bunch of 308 brass. take the 308 brass and neck it down to 260 and then you'll have a bunch of 260 brass, it's just that easy! powder and bullets is up to you tho!
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    When i was purchasing my savage 12LRP i was going to go with a .243 then I started doing some research on the .260 and with my friend persuading me i went with the .260. Glad I did I love the .260. Go with the .260 and you will never look back.
    Last edited by A Train; 04-20-2013 at 10:38 AM.

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    Using 243 brass to make 260 will result in donuts. The 243 shoulder becomes part of the 260 nk. More than likely need to turn the nk or use a inside nk reamer. Making 308 brass into 260 will result in thick nks, especially with LC brass resulting in nks needing to be turned. The best solution for 260 brass is 260 brass or 7mm08 nked down. If ur chamber nk is loosey goosey the 308 brass might work but a bushing die will almost be required to avoid excessive nk tension. I have 4 243 fast twist, 1 260, and 1 6.5 cm. Everyone of my 243 out do the 6.5cal in wind. My 6.5s can only get 2800 fps with 142/140 class bullets. Creedmoor is wearing a 26" brux and the 260 is23.75". Already over max charge on the 260 and anymore shows ejector swipes. It bugholes in my tikka sporter, but is only 2780. My 243's routinely sees 3150 with 105-107 bullets. Never had any fouling issues, infact going a couple hundred rds between cleaning shows no accuracy degradation. The oldest barrel has 1600 rds on it and still shoots in the .3s. 2 savages, 1 remage, and 1 tikka. With the savage/remage setups barrel burners don't scare me. I will spend more money on ammo to burn up a barrel than what a new pre fit costs.
    Better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

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    Looking at the Hvy Palma contour in Rem 260, planning to shoot 140 out to 1k. Am looking at a Rock Creek cut rifle prefit barrel on this rifle. What length and twist rate?
    Hoka Hey

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    1000yd? 1:8 twist, 26" minimum. You could reach 1000 easily with much less than 26", but why handcuff yourself unless you want/need less weight or better balance?

    Why heavy palma vs. med palma or Sendero?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    6.5 Creed is the answer you're looking for.

    Your friends/family can buy factory Hornady match ammo. Its going to meet your needs, and be the simplest solution.
    This is good advice!

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    I'd say get the 6.5 Creedmoor. Easy to load for, component availability is not a problem and gives you a good bit of flexibility with seating depth/oal. Also, as said before you can still buy factory match ammo for a pretty good price.
    Savage 12 flv 6.5 Creedmoor CBI barrel, Vortex Viper PST 6-24, Manners T4a, CDI bottom metal with Alpha mags.

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    I am leaning toward the 260 because it seems that it feeds flawlessly (from what I read) from an AI 308 magazine, does the 6.5 Creedmoor feed as well as the 260?
    Hoka Hey

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    Creedmoor will feed just fine from AICS mags. I'll be running a Manners T4A stock, CDI bottom metal, and AICS Mags on my Creedmoor.

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    Bruno's Avatar
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    As said, no issues feeding from either one. One note about the .260 being handicapped by OAL in aics mags, there are many who remove the front plate in them, doesn't affect reliability, and extends the OAL by a good bit to make room for the 140 class longer bullets. Plenty of threads on how to do it here.

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    never had a feeding problem with the 6.5 creed. CDI bottom metal with AICS mags
    Savage 12 flv 6.5 Creedmoor CBI barrel, Vortex Viper PST 6-24, Manners T4a, CDI bottom metal with Alpha mags.

  44. #44
    Roberts Tactical Precison
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    I have been running a 243 for years now as a primary tactical match rifle load, I think the barrel life can be longer than most will tell you. The 243 gets its reputation as a barrel burner due to the fact that most shoot lighter bullets above 3100 fps (sometimes well above) which will torch a barrel fast. With heavier bullets and the slower powders not pushing the load to its edge, you can get very good results and stretch the barrel life a little, but what are you giving up? I have got hits out to 1370 yds with this load, when you consider most matches can be won if you can own everything within 600-700 yds, your not giving up much. Now when you consider you can push the 205s and 215s to around 3150 then you are shooting considerably flatter than the 260 and 6.5CM. Another plus of the 243 is bullets generally cheaper, its all about materials and your shooting a lighter bullet.

    I have been running 115gr bn coated DTACs at around 2980-3K fps with slower burning powders (H4350, RL22 and RL25 in order of fastest to slowest), current Broughton barrel is sitting around 2500 rounds and still shooting great, I planed on rebarreling last shooting season but it continues to shoot. If you are looking for one of the flattest shooting rounds in the field, the 205-215s with RL22-25 pushed at 3100-3150 will shoot flatter than any of the 6.5 caliber rounds out there and will really help you at UKD, but you will give up barrel life, your choice as to how much depends on your velocity and a few other factors.

    Kirk R