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Thread: 6mm choice

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    6mm choice

    Looking to run the 115DTac or 105 Bergers out of AW mags.
    Been looking at the 6SLR or the 6 Crusader, and some othe 6 mm choices.
    What calipers are you guys using to push the 115gr bullets, and will a 7.5 twist barrel tear up the bullets?
    BLUEJAZZ

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    Jazz
    If you don't mind fireforming cases the 6 Dasher is the cartridge of choice for 600/1000 yard benchrest shooting.Its short length is a plus for seating the bullets long in a short action.It only burns 33+ grains of powder and will push the 115 weight bullets with a 8 twist barrel.Low recoil very long case life and better accuracy than any other longrange 6mm are tough to beat.
    The barrels twist rate has very little to do with tearing up bullets.Heat from friction is the major culprit in bullet blow-ups.I was pushing 100-108 class bullets at 3425 fps with my 6mm-06 and have never had a problem with a 8 twist barrel.I tried the older Berger 115's and only 1 bullet out of 40 made it to the target.The long bearing surface of the bullet at high velocity and a 30 inch barrel was more than they could handle.
    Lynn

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    My choice is the 6mm Creedmoor. Do a search on it, you might find it will be your choice as well. There are several good 6mm cartridges, but not all come with factory brass, or the ability to feed well from a magazine.
    Last edited by mkollman74; 03-22-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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    Mine is 6x47L just because I got a barrel already chambered for it...

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    I went with a 6xc. Pretty impressive round. Accurate as hell, bucks the wind well, and little recoil.


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    My choice would be a 6mm Creedmore or a 6 x 47 Lapua. You won't go wrong with either and they both fit and feed great from a magazine. IMHO.

    Regards,
    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onemoretime View Post
    Mine is 6x47L just because I got a barrel already chambered for it...
    Also a good one.
    1 mil shy of dead center...

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    Good ole .243......it's not new and doesn't have a cool "X" in it's name, but it more than gets the job done. I'm running a 26" barrel in 1:7.5 tw. It's shooting the 115Dtacs right at 3,009fps with 44gr of H4831SC. Great factory Lapua brass as well. Takes 7.4mils to 1000.

    I will admit I do want to try a 6XC, but not because I really feel like its going to do anything better than my .243 will. I'm sure it's just as good, but I doubt any better.
    Last edited by trevor300wsm; 03-21-2013 at 10:40 PM.
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    I'll second a vote for the good old .243, except that mine is an Ackley built to hurl those ugly, vicious little 115 grain pills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevor300wsm View Post
    Good ole .243......it's not new and doesn't have a cool "X" in it's name, but it more than gets the job done. I'm running a 26" barrel in 1:7.5 tw. It's shooting the 115Dtacs right at 3,009fps with 44gr of H4831SC. Great factory Lapua brass as well. Takes 7.4mils to 1000.
    What's your barrel life on the "good ole .243?" Just curious...not trying to piss you off.


    Good Guy List pg. 197,229,303,336...

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    Mr. 7mm
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    6SLR makes sense to me. Cheap, easy brass. Long neck to help on throat erosion and versatile seating depth in AI or AW mags. Plenty of capacity.

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    243 AI, pushing the 115's at 3100 fps is a hell of a lot of fun but you'll need to order a couple barrels at a time.

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    I'm gonna do a 6BR sooner or later.

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    .243 for me

    Simple, easy, and boring.

    I would love to try and put together a 6br repeater at some point though.
    “I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence.” - Ayrton Senna

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    6mm Crusader for me.

    3300 fps with 115 Dtacs is possible, what's not to like.

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    I had a 6 Creedmoor made last year, having my 6mmREM rebarreled in the same 6 Creedmoor with a slight adjustment in the chamber this year, and I dont even know how the first one is going to shoot, Im a trusting soul, arent I? The shell on the left is a 22-250 case ran thru my 6Creed die ready for forming.
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    Before you make a decision, you would be well served to confirm that your choice will ACTUALLY FEED out of an AW magazine. For example, .243, no problem. .243 Ackley...no dice. The AW magazine has a rib pressed into the side of the mag body that smacks into the shoulder of the Ackley case...which may or may not do the same with one of the other 6mm choices.

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    You can make the Dashers, BR's, Ackley's feed out of AI mags but it will take modification. I would go with the 6xc or 6CM which are very similar. They will feed great, get the velocity, and be easy to tune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo54 View Post
    6SLR makes sense to me. Cheap, easy brass. Long neck to help on throat erosion and versatile seating depth in AI or AW mags. Plenty of capacity.
    this, no fancy brass needed, easy to form, 243 done right

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDUBYA View Post
    You can make the Dashers, BR's, Ackley's feed out of AI mags but it will take modification. I would go with the 6xc or 6CM which are very similar. They will feed great, get the velocity, and be easy to tune.
    AICS or AW magazines? OP wants to use the latter. I would really like to see an AW magazine properly modified to feed .243 ackley.

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    Thanks for all the replies. Keep them coming.
    I have a few additional questions.
    Anyone having trouble dusting Berger bullets at 3300fps?
    Also, it would be helpful to find out what COAL is and FPS of each caliber with the 105 or 115's.
    Are there issues with having to chase the lands, and then not being able to fit in the AW mags?
    Just read about a gain twist barrel, any advantage to going this route to help keep bullets from falling apart?
    BLUEJAZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Scout77 View Post
    Before you make a decision, you would be well served to confirm that your choice will ACTUALLY FEED out of an AW magazine. For example, .243, no problem. .243 Ackley...no dice. The AW magazine has a rib pressed into the side of the mag body that smacks into the shoulder of the Ackley case...which may or may not do the same with one of the other 6mm choices.
    This is a very valid point, and one of the reasons I chose the SLR (albeit in 6.5mm and/or 7mm...tooling on order, but not sure which I'll try first). The shoulder arranges itself nicely with the rib in the AW magazine, and the 30º shoulder is proven good to go in these magazines as well.

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    Whats wrong with the original Rem.6mm ?? Its ballistics are pretty much in the middle of .243 & 6.5 CM ??

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    I shoot both SLR and Creedmoors from AW Mags. Zero issues...

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo54 View Post
    This is a very valid point, and one of the reasons I chose the SLR (albeit in 6.5mm and/or 7mm...tooling on order, but not sure which I'll try first). The shoulder arranges itself nicely with the rib in the AW magazine, and the 30º shoulder is proven good to go in these magazines as well.
    The equipment worked fine and the bullets went in the direction the muzzle was pointed. All the mistakes I made were the result of headspace problems - they happened between the ears. - Graham...following the 2010 SH Cup

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    I currently shoot and love the 6 XC, However if I were starting over again I could pick between either a 6 creed or 6-6.5x47

    To me the norma xc isnt worth $88/100 I think the lapua 47 brass would be a better investment and if annealed and collected after matches would provide excellent brass life, some report 20 firing, buy a reamer and keep the barrels coming

    but if you want to save money on brass or are worried about loosing brass then i would go 6 creed in a heart beat, both are great.

    Both burn less powder than a 243 and from what i have owned and shot and those who i have talked to that i value thier opinion are easier to tune and shoot bug holes

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    These are all great cartriges and with a few exceptions almost identical ballistically. I would pick the 243 because brass is easy to find and you will not have any problems feeding it out of a magazine.

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    Mr. 7mm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted .308 View Post
    Whats wrong with the original Rem.6mm ?? Its ballistics are pretty much in the middle of .243 & 6.5 CM ??
    I don't think the 6mm Rem really fits a short action very well when loaded with heavy long range bullets. That 6mm case is long as fuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevor300wsm View Post
    Good ole .243......it's not new and doesn't have a cool "X" in it's name, but it more than gets the job done. I'm running a 26" barrel in 1:7.5 tw. It's shooting the 115Dtacs right at 3,009fps with 44gr of H4831SC. Great factory Lapua brass as well. Takes 7.4mils to 1000.

    I will admit I do want to try a 6XC, but not because I really feel like its going to do anything better than my .243 will. I'm sure it's just as good, but I doubt any better.
    I agree, the old reliable 243 is easy, but if your like me you'll have to rebarrel in 1500 rounds so you can change it up in a few months! I have friends that shoot the 6CM and the 6x47 and they shoot very well and are a little more efficient than my 243. But choices are good!
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    I went with a 6SLR last year and i really am pleased with the performance. I'm shooting the 105g Bergers and 105g Amax at 3150fps out of a 24" barrel.

    I have no regrets at all!

    It would be hard to choose between the 6SLR and the 6CM right now. But i think for ease of cases the 6SLR is a no brainer.

    xdeano

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    Looking toward the 6 Creed, but don't find brass availability.
    Also, not sure if there are coal issues with the 6 SLR or 6CM with the 115 Bergers and AW mags.
    Last edited by Bluejazz; 03-22-2013 at 04:13 PM.
    BLUEJAZZ

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    I have a good ol .243. It works well, but I am thinking that I need a 6mm SLR, as others have said it is the 243 done right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluejazz View Post
    Looking toward the 6 Creed, but don't find brass availability.
    Also, not sure if there are coal issues with the 6 SLR or 6CM with the 115 Bergers and AW mags.
    GAP has 6 Creed brass as well as McCourt ammo. Ive got a AICS mag for my 6 Creed and there's plenty of room for a 115.
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    Can anyone list the H2O case size for each of the 6mm cases??

    My guess:

    6 Rem > 6 Competition Match > 6 SLR > 243 > 6 Creedmore > 6x47 Lapua > 6 XC > 6 Dasher


    On the fence with a 6 build and either a 243 or 6xc. Prob go 243 for brass cost alone (lose a lot of brass in matches) but ccant decide. I also want a larger capacity case to utilize a slower poweder like H1000 which chould make barrel last longer. On paper at least

    Thanks,
    DT
    Last edited by D_TROS; 03-22-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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    you just don't hear much anymore about the .243 WSM or its shorter fatter brother the .243 WSSM.....have they all but faded off into obscurity? I guess I'm not asking if they will fit and feed from AICS or AW mags....just in general, I rarely see threads discussing them being used for builds or guys reloading for current rifles, wonder what happened?

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    Quote Originally Posted by D_TROS View Post
    Can anyone list the H2O case size for each of the 6mm cases??

    My guess:

    6 Rem > 6 Competition Match > 6 SLR > 243 > 6 Creedmore > 6x47 Lapua > 6 XC > 6 Dasher


    On the fence with a 6 build and either a 243 or 6xc. Prob go 243 for brass cost alone (lose a lot of brass in matches) but ccant decide. I also want a larger capacity case to utilize a slower poweder like H1000 which chould make barrel last longer. On paper at least

    Thanks,
    DT
    6mmREM hold 56.2, 6 Creed 51.5, 6XC about 50grs H2O.
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    Case capacities of 6 SLR and 6 Crusader?
    BLUEJAZZ

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    6-6.5X47 lapua. You can seat the bullet longer than a CM and get to the lands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D_TROS View Post
    Can anyone list the H2O case size for each of the 6mm cases??

    My guess:

    6 Rem > 6 Competition Match > 6 SLR > 243 > 6 Creedmore > 6x47 Lapua > 6 XC > 6 Dasher


    On the fence with a 6 build and either a 243 or 6xc. Prob go 243 for brass cost alone (lose a lot of brass in matches) but ccant decide. I also want a larger capacity case to utilize a slower poweder like H1000 which chould make barrel last longer. On paper at least

    Thanks,
    DT
    6XC > 6x47. Everything else looks right.

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    Love my 6x47 lapua. Easy to neck down. I've also had 6br and brx and they were very accurate. I just didn't want to fire form any more. 6br is a great. I know guys with the 6xc and its accurate too. Not knocking 243win but the barrel life is way to short for me.

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    6 competition match. Run case through sizing die, cci br2/fed210m, 47g h1000, seat bullet.....shoot. FF loads are accurate. No waste of components. Win brass, 3500+ rounds, accurate. I have 2-243's, 243AI & 6CM... All are accurate and fast,faster & fastest. You really can't go wrong with any of the cartridges mentioned in this thread. It boils down to if it feeds from mag & whether or not you like/mind FF brass. Call a good smith & ask them your questions. Chad Dixon, Greg Young, Dave Bruno, Robert Whitley will answer the phone or return your call. Be careful, they are also good salesmen! All these guys are also shooters, they will tell you what works
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSYOPS View Post
    What's your barrel life on the "good ole .243?" Just curious...not trying to piss you off.
    I'm 3 matches into this barrel and the round count is at 609. It was Melonite treated and I'm shooting 4831SC (opposed to 4350) so I'm hoping to get close to 1700-1800 out of it. That might be a bit optimistic.
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    I too am waiting on a 6mm Creedmoor. At first, I was going to go with the 6XC, but after some advice, I chose the 6 Creedmoor. I just wish there was a bit more info on the caliber, but from what I have read and been told, it's an easy to load accurate caliber that does not burn the barrel as quickly as other 6mm. I plan to use this rifle for tactical competitions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluejazz View Post
    Case capacities of 6 SLR and 6 Crusader?
    H2O is about 60g on the crusader. I can load 54g of retumbo with a 115 dtac at 2.955 OAL.

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    6x47 Lapua. Accurate, efficient, and excellent brass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeze View Post
    H2O is about 60g on the crusader. I can load 54g of retumbo with a 115 dtac at 2.955 OAL.
    Freeze,
    At that coal, Will they fit in AW mags and still be able to chase the lands , or do you just load them to mag length and jump the bullet .050-.100 to the lands?
    BLUEJAZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluejazz View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. Keep them coming.
    I have a few additional questions.
    Anyone having trouble dusting Berger bullets at 3300fps?
    Also, it would be helpful to find out what COAL is and FPS of each caliber with the 105 or 115's.
    Are there issues with having to chase the lands, and then not being able to fit in the AW mags?
    Just read about a gain twist barrel, any advantage to going this route to help keep bullets from falling apart?
    BlueJazz
    Cartridge overall length on the 6Dasher is 2.405 inches with a Spencer 103 gr VLD with the meplats trimmed.The velocity is 3045 fps and all of the 100-108 grain match bullets work in the 3025-3050 fps range with this case.Barrel life comes down to how much heat you are forcing down the bore and the Dasher burns 33 grains of powder.The same velocity out of the larger cases requires around 43 grains or more of powder and thus less barrel life.Feeding is not a problem.
    Fireforming brass is the only pain with the Dasher but even that is no big deal.
    Accuracy is everything in my book and for that nothing beats the Dasher.
    On the bullet blow-ups you will not see them anymore as Berger has changed there jackets to accommodate the higher velocity and higher friction of the bigger cartridges and longer barrels.
    I would recommend you use there hunting bullets and only switch to the thicker jackets if you are seeing blow-ups.The thinner jackets on the hunting bullets have a higher bc number and tend to outshoot the thicker jackets.
    There is a huge amount of truth to the comment that some of these manufacturers are great at selling you stuff.
    In a nutshell for a short action the 6BR is running 30 grains of powder and getting 2900+ fps and the 6-284 is running 54 grains of powder and getting 3425fps.Everything else fills in the center section.
    In my opinion accuracy long barrel life and good brass trumps the rest.
    I take my old 6BR and 6Dasher barrels off and turn them into 6/284 or 6mm-06's barrels for hunting.
    Lynn

  47. #47
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    My water case capacity for the 6SLR is 54.4grn average. Remember that the bullet will fill some of this space also.

    I know i can stuff 47.4grn of H1000 into the case for a slow but accurate @ 3000fps. Or 46.5grn of my blended powder for 3155fps with a 105 berger. I can easily go above that velocity and hit 3200fps.

    I like running the H1000 in this case just because it should slow down throat erosion.

    xdeano

  48. #48
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    Xdeano
    I have read that H1000 is sometimes temperamental to get a load developed with.
    Have you seen any of this?
    BLUEJAZZ

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn Jr View Post
    BlueJazz
    Cartridge overall length on the 6Dasher is 2.405 inches with a Spencer 103 gr VLD with the meplats trimmed.The velocity is 3045 fps and all of the 100-108 grain match bullets work in the 3025-3050 fps range with this case.Barrel life comes down to how much heat you are forcing down the bore and the Dasher burns 33 grains of powder.The same velocity out of the larger cases requires around 43 grains or more of powder and thus less barrel life.Feeding is not a problem.
    Lynn
    I figure I should be getting just over 3200 from 42grs of powder in my 6 Creed, that might be a huge plus when shooting to 600-1K.
    Longrifles Inc. 6Creed, 28" HV Bart, X-treme S/S action,T4 Manners, 8-32 Sightron Tac w/2MOA reticle, TPS 30mm rings, CG 2 stage trigger.
    Coming soon: Longrifles Inc 6 Creed, trued 700 action, 28" HV Bart, T2 manners, Jewell trigger, TPS rings and 20moa base, Sightron 10-50x60mm.
    700 SPSS 308, H-S stock,Jewell trigger, 6-24 Sig. TPS rings & 20moa base.

  50. #50
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    Looks like I have narrowed it down to the following cartridges based on feeding from the AW mags
    6 SLR
    243
    6x47Lapua
    6 Creed
    BLUEJAZZ

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