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Thread: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

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    TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    My 260 barrel is toast and I'm looking to replace it with a 6.5mm SLR

    I'll need to buy a reamer, 6.5 SLR sizing die and go/nogo gauges but the 260 Lee Collet die and Redding Comp seater should work ok with the SLR.

    Just wondering if any TRG shooters have already been down this path and if so what are your impressions of the SLR?

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I've been pondering this same thing! I have a new 6.5SLR/s R700 and was thinkin' a TRG in this chambering would be quite special. I am new to the TRG arena- but am very impressed-wish I woulda started there!
    If I were to do it again (and still may do this) I would probably just send a Newlon die blank or two and have the sizing dies cut with the reamer.
    I am still early on in the load workups(45 rds)-but 2900+fps with 142SMK's happens 1.1gr below a pressure max (case head swipe/slight primer leakage) of 45.0gr H4350 at a coal of 2.850". Accuracy has been very good- no discernable case growth/loose pockets- even with the 45.0gr load.
    see you all at my intervention

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Is the SLR in between a 260 and 6.5x284? Similar to 260AI?

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: hammerhead
    My 260 barrel is toast and I'm looking to replace it with a 6.5mm SLR

    I'll need to buy a reamer, 6.5 SLR sizing die and go/nogo gauges but the 260 Lee Collet die and Redding Comp seater should work ok with the SLR.

    Just wondering if any TRG shooters have already been down this path and if so what are your impressions of the SLR?


    Is your .260 TRG on of the EuroOptic ones with factory barrel? If so, how many rounds did you put through it by the time it crapped out on you?

    I have one also and was hoping to get at least 2k rounds out of it.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    What velocity did you get out of your 260 TRG? I'm getting 2815fps out of my 24" rem 700 in 260 Rem. The TRG has a longer magazine and longer action hole (where the bullet goes in from the magazine, whatever that is called). 260 Rem has plenty of case capacity.

    I don't see a whole lot of improvement over 260 Rem, but I suppose if you want something different.

    Whatever you do, spend some time with your gunsmith and make sure you get the throat length correct. I like short (match) throats. That way you can load close to the lands if needed. But not so short that you don't have case capacity. Has to be just right. With your experience with your 260 you should be able to make a round and bring it to him so he throats your barrel for your round. Finding a gunsmith that will do that is worth it.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: OinCO
    I've been pondering this same thing! I have a new 6.5SLR/s R700 and was thinkin' a TRG in this chambering would be quite special. I am new to the TRG arena- but am very impressed-wish I woulda started there!
    If I were to do it again (and still may do this) I would probably just send a Newlon die blank or two and have the sizing dies cut with the reamer.
    I am still early on in the load workups(45 rds)-but 2900+fps with 142SMK's happens 1.1gr below a pressure max (case head swipe/slight primer leakage) of 45.0gr H4350 at a coal of 2.850". Accuracy has been very good- no discernable case growth/loose pockets- even with the 45.0gr load.


    Thanks OinCO. That's impressive performance with no pressure issues. I stopped pushing the 260 at 2860fps with 139s and settled around 2800fps for best accuracy and no pressure. I ran the 123 Scenars on the warm side, over 3,000fps, and that probably contributed to my short(ish) barrel life of 2000rnds.

    At a COAL of 2.850", were you jumping or jamming?

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: OBXLongRange
    Is the SLR in between a 260 and 6.5x284? Similar to 260AI?


    In Robert Whitley's view, the SLR is a 260 designed right - same capacity but longer neck, 30deg shoulder, better burn efficiency and less throat torching.
    OinCO's SLR performance seems to confirm the better burn efficiency but based on capacity I doubt it can match the 260AI velocities.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: Lakeway
    Originally Posted By: hammerhead
    My 260 barrel is toast and I'm looking to replace it with a 6.5mm SLR

    I'll need to buy a reamer, 6.5 SLR sizing die and go/nogo gauges but the 260 Lee Collet die and Redding Comp seater should work ok with the SLR.

    Just wondering if any TRG shooters have already been down this path and if so what are your impressions of the SLR?


    Is your .260 TRG on of the EuroOptic ones with factory barrel? If so, how many rounds did you put through it by the time it crapped out on you?

    I have one also and was hoping to get at least 2k rounds out of it.


    It is a custom barrel, not a EuroOptic 260. If you don't machine-gun it and use moderate loads you should easily make 2K+ rnds.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: sniperaviator
    What velocity did you get out of your 260 TRG?
    139 Scenars @ ~2,800fps, 123 Scenars @ ~3030fps.

    Quote:
    Whatever you do, spend some time with your gunsmith and make sure you get the throat length correct.
    As it happens, I was talking to Dave Kiff (PT&G) yesterday about just that. His 260 match reamer with 0.088" FB looks near perfect for using 140 VLDs from the TRG 2.96" mag. The downside with the 260 is, even at an OAL of 2.92", the VLD bearing surface is well below the neck/shoulder junction - hence the appeal of the 6.5SLR with its long neck.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    For those of you that have a 6.5 SLR, who did or will do your chambering? This cartridge has interested me since I first read about it last year. I have a 6.5x47L that I would like to get the chamber re-cut to 6.5SLR. Running the 140VLD Hybrids at 2900+ would be nice.
    Daenerys of House Targaryen

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Ray Bowman @ Precision Rifle and Tool, mainly builds benchrest but also does tactical, he's got a 6.5 SLR Reamer
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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I am jumping the SMK's at 2.850" COAL. Bullet base is nicely placed with the long neck, Even with the JLK 140gr/Berger 140's I can mag feed and choose to jump or jam.

    We may need to discount my velocity numbers....they don't make sense with JBM? At a 200yd zero, altitude 7700?ft, 20%H, 70*F I have 6.5 moa dialed for 550yds.....that would lead me to believe that I am really more like 3100fps? CED M2 chrono- and the screens like to slip apart...
    I'll update with velocity #'s that I trust and with some R17 numbers...my dope for 1000yds is also more like 3100fps dope.

    I had Chad at Long Rifles Inc. blueprint & chamber this one- kept the reamer as I don't think this will be my last tango with this chambering!

    Haven't tried the cases in the 300wm mag yet...but maybe when the TRG42 barrel is toast I should do the LA version?
    see you all at my intervention

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    ^^^^ your running a 142smk (or atleast you think you are) at ~3,100fps?
    What powder and how much?
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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: OinCO


    We may need to discount my velocity numbers....they don't make sense with JBM? At a 200yd zero, altitude 7700?ft, 20%H, 70*F I have 6.5 moa dialed for 550yds.....that would lead me to believe that I am really more like 3100fps? CED M2 chrono- and the screens like to slip apart...
    I'll update with velocity #'s that I trust and with some R17 numbers...my dope for 1000yds is also more like 3100fps dope.



    O, I think your conclusion is correct because the numbers were over 200fps slower then I would normaly see when we checked speed with my 308 that same day on your chronograph.
    Rivet Joint - We stay longer in the most sensitive areas.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Alpine thanks! I thought these numbers were while it was still reading correctly-glad I ran these backwards through JBM.

    *also should be pointed out this is a 30" tube.

    43.9gr to 44.2gr of H4350/BR2 showed 2906-2927fps, higher charges showed high 2800's- maybe the screens were still moving?

    seems to fall in line with Whitleys' numbers if we back off a bit more powder and barrel length?
    see you all at my intervention

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    You guys just need to go with a 6.5x55 it will do it all only better. I know, I know, its a long action but so what.

    I have shot them all and love them all but for pushing the 140 class bullets with good barrel life you need a long action and the 6.5x55 will give great accuaracy and barrel life.

    You also have the option of loading it down to 2650 and it will give you 4000 to 5000 rounds out of a barrel and great accuracy. Or if speed is your thing you can push it close to 6.5x284 speeds and have a real hot rod and poor barrel life. See best of both worlds!!

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I run a 260 rem with a chamber clearance of .001, with lapua brass and a 139 scenar/br2 combo and 44 gr h4350 out of a 26" tube I'm at 3000 fps. The only sign of pressure is a slight ejector mark. All of this cycles great from a manners mini chassis into a stiller predator. It hard to beat that without going to a 6.5 barrel burner!
    POW>.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................*PING


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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: Special Delivery
    I run a 260 rem with a chamber clearance of .001, with lapua brass and a 139 scenar/br2 combo and 44 gr h4350 out of a 26" tube I'm at 3000 fps. The only sign of pressure is a slight ejector mark. All of this cycles great from a manners mini chassis into a stiller predator. It hard to beat that without going to a 6.5 barrel burner!


    3000 fps from a .260 with 139 Lupuas??? Are you sure about that? Even a 6.5x.284 would be hard pressed to do that from a 26" tube.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Oinco sent you a PM
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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    OinCO, who made your reamer?

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: Lakeway
    Originally Posted By: Special Delivery
    I run a 260 rem with a chamber clearance of .001, with lapua brass and a 139 scenar/br2 combo and 44 gr h4350 out of a 26" tube I'm at 3000 fps. The only sign of pressure is a slight ejector mark. All of this cycles great from a manners mini chassis into a stiller predator. It hard to beat that without going to a 6.5 barrel burner!


    3000 fps from a .260 with 139 Lupuas??? Are you sure about that? Even a 6.5x.284 would be hard pressed to do that from a 26" tube.


    I am as positive as can be, there are several on the hide who can contest to it, I know it sounds crazy, but it a combo of a tight chamber and running off the lands with a max charge, AND accuracy that floats between .1-.2
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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I've got a 6 SLR and its not worth the cost of the $$ dies. The only advantage I was expecting was better bbl life and it's not happening. .080 throat erosion at 1080 rounds of 107's at 2850 fps w H4350.

    Waste of time and $$, stick w the 260.
    Don't worry.....It'll get worse.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Thanks for the heads up Hellbender.

    I've been very happy with my 260 but its chamber has a mile of freebore and seats everything way out there - Berger 140s around 3" COAL. OK for F-Class single round feed but I need around 2.9" COAL for mag use when hunting.

    If a few 260 shooters tell me they consistently get <1/2moa with mag length 140 VLDs (ie deep seated), then I'll stick with the 260 - if not maybe the 6.5CM.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I got better than .5 moa when I used the 140 bergers, you just have to have the chamber setup forags so you can get close to the lands with 2.80 coal
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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Hellbender,
    Most guys are shooting H1000 to get the better barrel life with the 6SLRs it burns a lot cooler. With H4350 I would guess barrel life would be the same as the 243s, not so great.

    There are seveal guys claiming 3000+ rounds out of the SLRs on 6BR.com.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: OinCO
    I am jumping the SMK's at 2.850" COAL. Bullet base is nicely placed with the long neck, Even with the JLK 140gr/Berger 140's I can mag feed and choose to jump or jam.

    We may need to discount my velocity numbers....they don't make sense with JBM? At a 200yd zero, altitude 7700?ft, 20%H, 70*F I have 6.5 moa dialed for 550yds.....that would lead me to believe that I am really more like 3100fps? CED M2 chrono- and the screens like to slip apart...
    I'll update with velocity #'s that I trust and with some R17 numbers...my dope for 1000yds is also more like 3100fps dope.

    I had Chad at Long Rifles Inc. blueprint & chamber this one- kept the reamer as I don't think this will be my last tango with this chambering!

    Haven't tried the cases in the 300wm mag yet...but maybe when the TRG42 barrel is toast I should do the LA version?


    O,
    You're absolutely crushing my 6.5SLR velocities, albeit your 6000ft higher and have 5" more barrel. I was seeing ejector swipes @ 2885fps. But my chamber is much shorter than yours and maybe that's another reason...? Are you using AICS mags? 2.88" is what I have for max COAL in an AICS. and you're jumping them @ 2.85". With less than 30 thou to chase the lands, are you worried about running out of room? I can't wait to read more, those numbers are AWESOME. My load development has stopped on the 6.5SLR, I only have 2 optics and 3 rifles.

    Maybe try some 4831-SC. I wanted to try it, but my bullets are seated so deep I wasn't comfortable with the significant "crush" while trying to get the charge wait up for the velocity I was looking for.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    SpecialDelivery...it was results like yours and Trevors 6.5x47's that gave me fits in trying to decide on a chambering for the barrel! You guys have some sweet rigs running pretty nicely!

    Hammerhead...how many rounds did you get out of the .260? How much extra brass work did you do when running stout loads?

    The main reason I went with the 6.5SLR is so I could have a "wildcat" cartridge to blame when I miss.... "oh, I'm just fireforming today" "probably just a brisance issue with these primers and the current DA" <----I have a whole notebook full in case I need to dig deep for a miss on an easy shot in front of all the talent scouts at the range.... [img]<>/grin.gif[/img]


    HellBender....did the H1000 or 4831sc not work as well for your 6SLR? How fast did the 4350 get you to?


    Thanks LoweLeft...I'll post a separate more formal complete rundown after my next range trip (hopefully dual wielding chronos)...your results and findings were keeping me going while I was waiting for the reamer to appear! Are you going to lengthen your throat? (do it! do it! you won't regret it!) [img]<>/smile.gif[/img] 4831sc does seem pretty tasty.

    Fisky, my reamer was from PT&G.

    I don't have a TRG22 magazine to measure...but from others here posting about a useable 2.945" internal dimension- seems pretty viable-unless one was hellbent on running VLD's and chasing lands to the end?

    I think that if I built to a long action I would do the 6.5x55 or a .284, or a 7saum? or 7wsm? 6.5wsm? 300NM? 7mm Hulk? 300AccIntl? aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh there I go again! help! [img]<>/crazy.gif[/img]
    see you all at my intervention

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    By chance, have you tried any 130's yet, or came across any range reports pertaining to them? Curious what kind of velocities a guy could expect with 130 hunting VLDs in a 24-26" barrel.

    What was the wait time on your reamer?

    Thanks!!

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    The SLR loses case capacity over a standard 243 and you need all you can get w H1000.

    I shoot H1000 w dtacs in my match gun now, its a reg 243. Its still not magic, most of the guys using it still need a bbl at 1800-2000 rounds.

    Those guys getting 3 k rounds don't shoot tactical matches. I just shot 20 rounds+ in two different stages at the RO match today.
    Don't worry.....It'll get worse.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I will add my limited info. I chambered my wife's rifle to a 6.5 SLR last weekend.
    Reamer is a PTG SLR/S Correction .055 FB For the 142's this is great. For the Lupua 139 and Nosler 140..this is too short for optimum powder and seating depth. I have a throater on the way just in case

    142 SMK to lands 2.830
    27.5 inch Benchmark 1:8

    45.5 gr H4831sc 2810 fps
    46.0 gr H4831sc 2820 fps
    46.5 H4831 sc 2845 fps
    This load data was confirmed out to 975 at 7.3 mils at 3200DA
    NO pressure signs. This is the fire forming load. Shoots tiny groups at 300 and 500.

    Nosler 140 CC are 2.745 to the lands and at the same velocity with the 46.5 load.

    Is this a better mouse trap...only time will tell and I like the case design..
    So far the brass is cheap and easy to find and I don't have to trim brass.
    Limited testing...the forming load shoots great. My wife will shoot the forming load in a match this weekend.


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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    I think it'd be foolish to think this caliber couldnt be just as accurate as any other. It has so much going for it. All the best qualities from several very accurate cartridges. There just isn't enough wide spread info out on it. I'm going to have one of my 6.5x47's chamber re-cut to 6.5SLR and see what I can do with it. I think the 140 Hybrids or VLD's in this would be really nice.
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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: OinCO
    Hammerhead...how many rounds did you get out of the .260? How much extra brass work did you do when running stout loads?..............I don't have a TRG22 magazine to measure...but from others here posting about a useable 2.945" internal dimension- seems pretty viable-unless one was hellbent on running VLD's and chasing lands to the end?


    At about 2,000 rounds it went south in a big way, accuracy dropping from <0.4moa to moa all of a sudden. I bore-scoped after the shoot and was amazed it was even managing moa.

    For me, F/L sizing always means full case prep incl length trimming. Neck sizing with the Lee Collet Die cut down the work a lot (no trimming, chamfering etc) but I still had to do the works and bump about every third firing. According to Quickload, the 123 loads were running at 58,000psi+.

    I like to shoot the VLDs because they are dual purpose, excellent for hunting and targets. The 139 Scenars always shot well for me in comps but when hunting close range they just pencil straight through with no expansion. Unfortunately, my 140 VLD loads were 2.977" and the mag only 2.95"

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm
    I think the 140 Hybrids or VLD's in this would be really nice.
    +1 on the Hybrids.

    Yes, the SLR case has all the right attributes but the touted long neck/less torching theory didn't seem to hold water for Hellbender.

    Robert Whitely has other 260 options that might be worth a look too, such as the 260 Imp 30. It has the same 30deg shoulder as the SLR, but has more capacity and a standard neck length.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: MTETM
    I will add my limited info. I chambered my wife's rifle to a 6.5 SLR last weekend.
    Reamer is a PTG SLR/S .080 FB
    142 SMK to lands 2.830
    27.5 inch Benchmark 1:8

    45.5 gr H4831sc 2810 fps
    46.0 gr H4831sc 2820 fps
    46.5 H4831 sc 2845 fps
    This load data was confirmed out to 975 at 7.3 mils at 3200DA
    NO pressure signs. This is the fire forming load. Shoots tiny groups at 300 and 500.

    Nosler 140 CC are 2.745 to the lands and at the same velocity with the 46.5 load.

    Is this a better mouse trap...only time will tell and I like the case design..
    So far the brass is cheap and easy to find and I don't have to trim brass.
    Limited testing...the forming load shoots great. My wife will shoot the forming load in a match this weekend.


    Thanks for posting your results, MTETM.

    Regarding the need for "fire forming loads", how close to the final case shape does one pass on the SLR sizing die get?

    Please post how your working loads perform when you have them tested.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    A single pass through the die to expand the neck on 243 brass and push the shoulder back. The case is very close. I adjust the die until my wife had just a feel or resistance the last 1/3 of bolt closure. At this rate the only "fire forming" is making the shoulder a sharp 30 degrees. I will post a picture of before and after in the am...
    Originally Posted By: hammerhead


    Thanks for posting your results, MTETM.

    Regarding the need for "fire forming loads", how close to the final case shape does one pass on the SLR sizing die get?

    Please post how your working loads perform when you have them tested.
    [/quote]
    The equipment worked fine and the bullets went in the direction the muzzle was pointed. All the mistakes I made were the result of headspace problems - they happened between the ears. - Graham...following the 2010 SH Cup

    ....Interview from SHC 2012..."What is your name?...What Advice would you offer to future SHC competitors? John.... Don't Miss...!

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: MTETM
    A single pass through the die to expand the neck on 243 brass and push the shoulder back. The case is very close. I adjust the die until my wife had just a feel or resistance the last 1/3 of bolt closure. At this rate the only "fire forming" is making the shoulder a sharp 30 degrees. I will post a picture of before and after in the am...[quote=hammerhead]


    I took a picture of a resized case (on the left) and then a fired case (on the right).

    These are 260 Remington cases... Sorry for the pic, it was an iPod. What is noticeable is the rounded edge on the shoulder of the resized case, which is a single pass through the 6.5SLR F/L resizing die. The fired case has a much sharper shoulder.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    [quote=hammerhead][quote=trevor300wsm] Yes, the SLR case has all the right attributes but the touted long neck/less torching theory didn't seem to hold water for Hellbender.

    I have a 6SLR in the works, Jon Beanland is going to chamber it. I shoot steel matches, 16 shot strings. Going to follow Robert Whitleys advice and use 4831sc, or as Raptor stated use H1000 to hopefully get longer barrel life. Raptor, thanks for answering my PM a while back regarding the 6SLR. One of the guys I shoot matches with shoots a 6mm Competitive Match, he uses H1000, over 3000 rds on his barrel. Guessing if he used 4350, his barrel life would be shorter. I'll post my findings with the 6SLR.

    Hey Oinco,

    your chrono is definitely reading slow. Yesterday I ran 10rds of 284/175smk's through my chrono. My CED measured the same velocity as it did 400rds ago. Next time we shoot together, I'll bring my chrono.

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: OinCO
    Thanks LoweLeft...I'll post a separate more formal complete rundown after my next range trip (hopefully dual wielding chronos)...your results and findings were keeping me going while I was waiting for the reamer to appear! Are you going to lengthen your throat? (do it! do it! you won't regret it!) 4831sc does seem pretty tasty.

    When I did my build, I ordered the JGS reamer off of the 6mmAR website, print # 6.5SuperLR/S.
    If you look, the lead (freebore) is only .055. My 139's are at the lands @ 2.790" so
    they're significantly seated back in the case. I'm going to take your advice and call the smith
    today and see if he can add 30 thousandths to the throat. I'll keep you all posted.

    Wish I knew then what I know now...

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    Originally Posted By: Hellbender
    I've got a 6 SLR and its not worth the cost of the $$ dies. The only advantage I was expecting was better bbl life and it's not happening. .080 throat erosion at 1080 rounds of 107's at 2850 fps w H4350.

    Waste of time and $$, stick w the 260.


    I'm shooting H1000 through my 24" barrel at 2950fps with a 105g Hunting VLD, easy and i'm only 1000' above sea level. I'm also getting 99.6% burn with the H1000.

    I can run my blended powder at 3150fps with the same bullet without pressure and it's right at the accuracy node, if i go above 3200fps i start getting pressure, slight but it's there. My blended powder is still going to be cooler running then the H4350 too. I can zip off 10 rounds in short order and the barrel is only warm, but my can is buring up.

    The 6.5mmSLR is a decent round, people just don't put enough stock into it.

    xdeano

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    after reading about the 6SLR a couple of years ago, i built what i considered a 6.5SLR with my 6.5x47 reamer run deep. this was long before Mr. Whitley introduced the 6.5SLR. i know its not magic but it sure seemed like it. the rifle would make 2950fps with a 140 amax and 3150 with the 123's. this is through a 27" 3 groove benchmark. regretfully, thinking more is better, i rechambered the rifle to 260ai and i NEVER could better the numbers that i got with the 6.5SLR. i used RE15 with the 123's and h4350, h4831, and ramshot hunter with the 140's.

    chuck

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    Re: TRG - 6.5mm Super LR

    KevinU, glad I could be of help!!

    I do think the secret to the longer barrel life is the slow burning powders. I had a 6XC with a kreiger 1-8 that had right at 1800+rounds through it(I used H4350 with it) I rechambered it to the 6SLR to shoot the 115s but I didn't have great luck with them. I think it was my twist so I just stayed with the 107s and 105 lapuas.

    I had mine set up as a tactical rifle and it would shoot .7 to 1.5" three shot groups at 400yds all day long doing load testing even fireforming the brass!! I really like the round. I just built a 6BRX to try out and if it doesn't work out I may go back to the 6SLR.

    However I have to say so far I am impressed with the 6BRX. Out of my first couple of groups for load testing at 400yds I printed a .990 and a 1.3" 5 shot groups so was happy with that if it will repeat it.