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Thread: Silencer on air guns?

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    Silencer on air guns?

    Anybody knows what are the regulations to get a silencer for air gun? Before you laugh you didn't hear how loud is the "real" .22, or .25 or .50 grain pellet hunting rifles [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    silencers for air guns... and paintball guns for that matter.... are still silencers, so they still fall under NFA

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Some "regulation" are letting to use silencer if it is not removable, and can't use an other guns. I just don't know they are suppose to make by factory, or any gunsmith?

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Have you looked into the Gamo Whisper line?

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: force_multiplier
    silencers for air guns... and paintball guns for that matter.... are still silencers, so they still fall under NFA


    incorrect. Air rifles are not firearms. If that were the case, I would not have been able to buy the gamo whisper I own in NY.

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: Attila The Hun
    Anybody knows what are the regulations to get a silencer for air gun? Before you laugh you didn't hear how loud is the "real" .22, or .25 or .50 grain pellet hunting rifles [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]


    How loud is the real.22,.25,or .50 grain pellet? they must be quiet if they weigh less than 1 grain. what are you hunting? hummingbirds?

    And yes, air rifles aren't regulated like firearms, anyone can buy one, like a paintball gun. so I dont think a suppressor for an air rifle would be a problem.
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: force_multiplier
    silencers for air guns... and paintball guns for that matter.... are still silencers, so they still fall under NFA

    Yeah bro you got it wrong, theres nothing saying you can have them but theres nothing saying you cant.

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle
    Originally Posted By: Attila The Hun
    Anybody knows what are the regulations to get a silencer for air gun? Before you laugh you didn't hear how loud is the "real" .22, or .25 or .50 grain pellet hunting rifles [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]


    How loud is the real.22,.25,or .50 grain pellet? they must be quiet if they weigh less than 1 grain. what are you hunting? hummingbirds?

    And yes, air rifles aren't regulated like firearms, anyone can buy one, like a paintball gun. so I dont think a suppressor for an air rifle would be a problem.


    Actually some of those CO2 pellet guns are loud due to the gasses escaping the muzzle, and they benefit greatly from a pellet gun suppressor, my friend has one....

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    The suppressor makes a difference. There is no loud snap or pop when firing. All you hear is the spring, which isn't quiet, but much quieter when comparing to an unsuppressed air rifle.

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    There's a guy doing time at club fed on an NFA charge for a suppressed airgun.

    An integral suppressor appears to be OK at this point in time, witness the Gamo Whisper and Benji Marauder.

    As a practical matter, a suppressor on a springer like a Gamo is dumbass. Most of the noise of springers is mechanical, not from expanding gas.

    CO2 and especially high pressure air are a different kettle of fish. Even .177 field target guns making 16-18 ft/lb (10gr@900fps) are pretty loud (uncomfortable and probably not hearing safe under a tin roof).

    .22s shooting up to 29gr up to 900fps (50+/- ft/lb) sound like .22 LR, and a Dragonslayer .50 (300-odd gr @ 700-800fps) sounds amazingly like .45LC.

    The Marauder mentioned above can make 30ft/lb (whompin' for an air rifle), with less noise (by virtue of the "shrouded" barrel) than CB Shorts, essentially subsonic .22LR (suppressed) noise levels.

    If you have a suppressor that could conceivably be removed and installed on a firearm, hide the dog dude, you're in a heap o' trouble. The addition of "shrouds" to guns not so equipped by the factory is something of a cottage industry. Forums refer to them a LDCs (lead dust collectors), shrouds, moderators, but are potentially tickets to club fed and loss of firearm rights. A $200 stamp is a damn sight cheaper than a lawyer.

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: frog5215
    There's a guy doing time at club fed on an NFA charge for a suppressed airgun.

    An integral suppressor appears to be OK at this point in time, witness the Gamo Whisper and Benji Marauder.

    As a practical matter, a suppressor on a springer like a Gamo is dumbass. Most of the noise of springers is mechanical, not from expanding gas.

    CO2 and especially high pressure air are a different kettle of fish. Even .177 field target guns making 16-18 ft/lb (10gr@900fps) are pretty loud (uncomfortable and probably not hearing safe under a tin roof).

    .22s shooting up to 29gr up to 900fps (50+/- ft/lb) sound like .22 LR, and a Dragonslayer .50 (300-odd gr @ 700-800fps) sounds amazingly like .45LC.

    The Marauder mentioned above can make 30ft/lb (whompin' for an air rifle), with less noise (by virtue of the "shrouded" barrel) than CB Shorts, essentially subsonic .22LR (suppressed) noise levels.

    If you have a suppressor that could conceivably be removed and installed on a firearm, hide the dog dude, you're in a heap o' trouble. The addition of "shrouds" to guns not so equipped by the factory is something of a cottage industry. Forums refer to them a LDCs (lead dust collectors), shrouds, moderators, but are potentially tickets to club fed and loss of firearm rights. A $200 stamp is a damn sight cheaper than a lawyer.





    WHY!!! on earth would anyone go to all that trouble for an air rifle? lame.
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    same reason they got in trouble for the fake cans on the GSG-5. those were pulled as well
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: palmik
    Originally Posted By: force_multiplier
    silencers for air guns... and paintball guns for that matter.... are still silencers, so they still fall under NFA


    incorrect. Air rifles are not firearms. If that were the case, I would not have been able to buy the gamo whisper I own in NY.


    where i live, you can get a ticket for discharging an air rifle just like you can a firearm. i was curious about shooting in my back yard. thats what the police say. now whether the DA will file, i really dont want to get that far. but they consider it a firearm.

    and i think he meant .22 .25 and .50 caliber air rifles, not grains
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    I found this:
    "SO WHAT? We're talking about airguns here!
    Yes we are, and most airgunners know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has jurisdiction over firearms ONLY. In fact, U.S. Code specifically prohibits any federal, state or local municipality from declaring an airgun to be a firearm. Not only do the federal firearms laws NOT apply to airguns, they CANNOT be applied by law! But that doesn't get us out of the woods.

    However...
    IF you have an airgun silencer, and IF it can be removed and installed on a firearm, and IF it then quiets that firearm - that silencer meets the legal definition and is subject to the law. However, in the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty, so it is also necessary to prove intent, as in you intended to use the silencer in your possession on a firearm. Therein lies the problem.

    At this point, I will cut directly to the chase. When you are tried for owning an illegal silencer, the federal government will vigorously prosecute their case against you. A court case uses a lot of resources, and they don't like to lose. The decision usually comes down to the judge after both sides have presented their case. You probably know that there are some judges who see their duty as interpreting the law, and there are other activist judges who see their duty as rectifying the current social situation - "putting things right," as it were. If you happen to draw the latter kind of judge, the outcome could be devastating. Even if you do happen to win, the time, money and heartache of preparing for a trial isn't pleasant for most people."

    So again :
    "If it can be removed and installed on a firearm, and IF it then quiets that firearm - that silencer meets the legal definition and is subject to the law."

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    But I can buy a shrouded "adapter" legally for Talon 1300f/s air rifle to make it quiet, so this is confusing a bit.

    link here:
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/...et-condor.html

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    My air gun has 3000 psi air in the cylinder , and when it goes off you need some silencer, or the neighbors will call the police, so that law is stupid again, because you have a right to shoot with airgun in your backyard, but it is loud as a regular .22 pistol... So what to do? [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: AXEMAN
    same reason they got in trouble for the fake cans on the GSG-5. those were pulled as well


    Axe, fake cans are for style points.
    Real suppressors are for sound suppression.
    .177 and .22 high pressure (pre charged pneumatic=PCP) air rifles sound a lot like .22LR SV in a 16-18" barrel, something you're not going to discharge in the back yard without some neighborly awareness.

    On further reflecting on your comment (Axeman's), he's exactly right. The original fake can on the fat can model GSG could reportedly be removed and reversed or something, leaving a big expansion chamber with a small exit. Ought to be a pretty effective sound reduction device.

    So in answer to the poster above who feels a suppressor on an airgun is lame, he's just demonstrating ignorance. People using PCP airguns for target or pest control work in an, ummmm... sensitive environment, especially where a suppressed firearm might not be safe or legal will find a suppressor necessary for discretion and hearing safety.

    Even a 40 year old Crosman CO2 pistol isn't hearing safe.

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    someone on this site posted a while back about a visit they got from the ATF at their gun store. the agents came in to specifically take possesion of the fake cans from the GSG saying that they did reduce sound level by some miniscule amount, it was a fraction of a db or a very low number, but it was a reduction in the sound as compared to not having it installed. thats all i remember as i was wanting a GSG-5 myself.

    my airguns are limited to an R10 pistol and a LGR Walther so i cant say i have ever heard anything louder. its interesting to hear that airguns are considered not firearms by law as the police here in my town do consider them a firearm. i will have to see if there is some specific language in the city or county laws about air rifles.

    i remember as a kid we just walked to the river with out crossman rifles thru neighborhoods without any issues. we did get stopped once by a cop. he just made us take the BBs out of them. bastard, lol, its easy to fill one, no so much to empty one
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: Attila The Hun
    I found this:
    ........ U.S. Code specifically prohibits any federal, state or local municipality from declaring an airgun to be a firearm. .....


    I have never heard of such a law. I would like to see it in print. The only thing I could find was a reference in TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 76 > § 5001 Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms
    Where it exempts paint-ball and air guns from the mandatory marking with a blaze orange plug at he muzzle. It further presevents states and municipalities from preventing the sale of such things.

    It does not prevent those things from being "firearms" or treated as firearms insofar as various municipal or state firearms laws. i.e. a city can cite you for firing a firearm within the city limits if all you are using is an air-gun, if they pass such a law.

    Denver classifies airguns as firearms. As do many places. In fact, the way the RMC in Denver was written, even a paintball gun was a firearms.

    Missouri, and the city in which I live, on the other hand has two definitions:
    "Firearm", any weapon that is designed or adapted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    and
    "Projectile weapon", any bow, crossbow, pellet gun, slingshot or other weapon that is not a firearm, which is capable of expelling a projectile that could inflict serious physical injury or death by striking or piercing a person;

    Even though a projectile weapon is not a firearm, it is still treated as such in certain cases:

      [*]Possesses a firearm or projectile weapon while intoxicated; or[*]It shall be unlawful for any person within the limits of the City to shoot or discharge any crossbow, sling, wrist rocket gun, revolver, air rifle, air gun, pellet gun, pistol, or taser, or firearm of any description or any other weapon that is designed or adapted to expel a projectile whether ball or any kind of explosive whatsoever or electrical current;[/list]

      So, it all comes down to Federal and local laws. Assume nothing.

      -----------------

      Here are the 2 pertinant paragraphs in the US Code I mentioned above:

      (c) “Look-alike firearm” defined
      For purposes of this section, the term “look-alike firearm” means any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.


      and


      (g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions
      The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—
      (i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or
      (ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    I'm not interested in arguing about this but you should check your local (municipal) regulations. In my AO, with respect to discharge, an airgun is considered a firearm. Stupid but on the books none the less. Hopefully your local politicians do not suffer from this same stupidity.
    Don't worry too much about what other people think,
    they don't do it very often...

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: AXEMAN
    its interesting to hear that airguns are considered not firearms by law as the police here in my town do consider them a firearm. i will have to see if there is some specific language in the city or county laws about air rifles.

    I was arrested for discharging a firearm in the city limits while deer hunting over a creek bed that is the line! I didn't shoot the deer with an air rifle obviously, but while getting the matter "taken care of" I did learn the local laws. A firearm (in the small town where I'm from) is anything except a bow & arrow, or a B B gun. Cross-bows and pellet rifles are considered firearms! Luckily I am from a small town and managed to not have a "criminal record" due to that little episode!!!
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    in my case, i was walking my dogs at a park. some guy was sitting at the edge of the parking lot where someone had dumped a campershell. from 200-300 yards i heard the report. guy was popping rounds off at the shell. i called the cops. later when they showed up, after the guy left of course, i talked to them. i said i never saw the weapon, only heard the report. i mentioned i didnt want to get the guy in trouble if he had a BB gun. the cop said it didnt matter, it was still a firearm and illegal to discharge in the city. i asked about shooting in my back yard, she said it didnt matter, it would still be illegal
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Frog wrote well on this,...ATF considers a silencer a firearm in itself so yes indeed they do need a tax stamp if even on an airgun. Read the ATF web pages and you will see quite a few are doing serious time in a Fed Pen, for illegal silencer ownership.

    High Power airguns are not toys,..factory offerings from Theoben/Evanix etc are capable of in excess of 60ft/lb muzzle energy and some custom rifles throw big slugs at 400-700ft/lbs.

    People do hunt feral pigs, deer, coyote etc with these.

    Unfortunately many airgunners in the US choose to ignore the silencer legality issue and try to be clever by flying under the radar. It will only lead to further legislation on high power airguns?

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    anybody that thinks I got it wrong, put a silencer on an air rifle or paintball gun and go have a chat with the BATF

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Originally Posted By: Attila The Hun
    Anybody knows what are the regulations to get a silencer for air gun? Before you laugh you didn't hear how loud is the "real" .22, or .25 or .50 grain pellet hunting rifles [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]


    WTF............SniperHide for serious tactical airsoft ninjas! It doesn't mater what the hell you put the can on! You can shove it up your ass for all batf cares, as long is you have a stamp your GTG to do your ninja stuff!
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    he could go to youtube and check out one of the "how to make a silencer" vids and make one on a ?? form 1 is it? still $200 i think but then you only have to spend money on a few 20 oz pops and some pvc or a stack of washers and a pringles can
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    a pringles can lol

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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    hand to god. youtube. drano bombs too. but you cant show a nipple cause thats bad. go figure
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    As Per BATF&E NFA FAQ:
    Quote:
    Q: Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?
    The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

    Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See also “What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?” and “How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm?” for application details.

    If you have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.

    [18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a), 27 CFR 479.11]
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    Re: Silencer on air guns?

    Over here in New Zealand you need a firearms licence if you 16 - 18 and no licence if you're over 18 to own a air gun, but now they are re-thinking that after a undercover cop was killed with a .22 cal air rifle after he got caught fitting a tracking device to a car. And he was shot running away not point blank.